Owning a house

Galwayguy35

I was left an acre of ground so it made sense for me to build on it, I like where I live and have no desire to move and I've a tracker mortgage of less than €400 a month.

It's something that people will never agree on, there are pros and cons to both scenarios..

Lawrence1895

Might be a German thing, but sometimes you have to move with your job, or because of finding a decent one...and if you own a house, you are in a catch 22, I suppose

hotbabe1992

Im about to own a house in the new year,wont be excited with all the running costs but still its somewhere i can lay my hat down.

Daveysil15

I can't even afford rent, nevermind a mortgage.

DebDynamite

Was told many times during the boom that "renting was dead money". Turns out so is the the interest on the repayments on a depreciating asset

Renting has served us well. It allowed us to sit on the sidelines and see what the market was doing here and save some money. It allowed us to live in a great central location with amenities right on our door stop.

Unfortunately it didn't give us the space we now need. It's at a stage now where if we wanted more space, we'd have to pay considerably more money on rent and move further out of town.

We've been looking for a house the past two years and have now gone sale agreed on a house in a great location for us near town. It's got plenty of room with a large south facing garden (we only had an east facing balcony before). It's not going to cost us much more money than our current monthly rent (of course we'll also have the usual expenses that come with home ownership. And yes, we know interest rates are at all time low). We're very settled now and can't imagine why we'd want to move out of Dublin in the future (we want might to leave Ireland if the worst ever came to the worst, but wouldn't want to move anywhere else in the country).

The landlord has cut our rent twice since we moved in, so we were really expecting to be told shortly that the rent was going back up again. So even if we moved to similar rented accommodation, if would cost us much more. And another 10 years from now, it would be even higher again, whereas our mortage repayments won't have increased that much.

So yeah, renting suited us perfectly for quite a few years, but now we feel it's the right time for us to buy.

The Diabolical Monocle

DebDynamite wrote: »

Was told many times during the boom that "renting was dead money". Turns out so is the the interest on the repayments on a depreciating asset

I doubt the annual interest on any mortgage comes to the cost of annual rent.

Depreciation below buying price is case by case.

Boomers were hit by it alright, but not so much for those in the last 4 or 5 years.

donegal__road

If anyone feels like buying a house, remember this... that if a house is advertised with a price tag of €250,000, your not actually buying it for that amount, unless you pay cash for it on the day.

The cost of borrowing €250,000 @ 4% for 30 years is €179,000

so your total repayments on a house valued at €250,00 will be €429,673 on a 100% mortgage.


The second thing you do is go and ask someone in the building trade, the cost of building a house yourself. You will find that you could build a pretty significant residence for €179,000.

mikom

foxyboxer wrote: »

As Tyler Durden said, "The things you own, end up owning you".

*owns "Fight club" on DVD and Blu ray.

Daveysil15

donegal__road wrote: »

If anyone feels like buying a house, remember this... that if a house is advertised with a price tag of €250,000, your not actually buying it for that amount, unless you pay cash for it on the day.

The cost of borrowing €250,000 @ 4% for 30 years is €179,000

so your total repayments on a house valued at €250,00 will be €429,673 on a 100% mortgage.


The second thing you do is go and ask someone in the building trade, the cost of building a house yourself. You will find that you could build a pretty significant residence for €179,000.

What would be the requirements for a single applicant looking for a mortgage?

borderlinemeath

donegal__road wrote: »

If anyone feels like buying a house, remember this... that if a house is advertised with a price tag of €250,000, your not actually buying it for that amount, unless you pay cash for it on the day.

The cost of borrowing €250,000 @ 4% for 30 years is €179,000

so your total repayments on a house valued at €250,00 will be €429,673 on a 100% mortgage.


The second thing you do is go and ask someone in the building trade, the cost of building a house yourself. You will find that you could build a pretty significant residence for €179,000.

And what is the cost of paying rent for 30 years? Not even including inflation/deflation? Say rent is average €1200 for a family home, that works out at €432,000. And at the end of it you have nothing, it's still somebody elses house.

You might build an alright house for €179,000, but what about the price of land? a small amount of people are gifted land from family but for the majority it's not an option.

As has already been said, interest is the service payment for using the banks money. Rent is the service payment for living in somebody elses house. You choose whichever suits your circumstances but at the end of the day if you buy something to live in at least you have something to live in when you're old, retired and on a limited income. We don't have a great culture of 3 generations living in the same household to look after our elders.

Morag

Other countries have a renting culture were you can have a 5, 10 or 30 year lease on a house.
We don't have that here, most leases are only 1 year and if you have kids moving every few years would be a nightmare. That's why most people will get a mortgage.

Lawrence1895

Morag wrote: »

Other countries have a renting culture were you can have a 5, 10 or 30 year lease on a house.
We don't have that here, most leases are only 1 year and if you have kids moving every few years would be a nightmare. That's why most people will get a mortgage.

But then, if landlords and agencies would offer long term contracts, would there be an increase in the rental market?

woodoo

I have rented in the past and now i own a house. Owning the house is by far better than renting. It is costing me no more monthly than the renting cost and i can do what i want with the place. Any improvements are mine. I don't have to answer to anybody. Provided i pay my mortgage nobody will ever bother me. And eventually the mortgage will be paid off. My house is not in negative equity so if i really want to move i can sell.

remsburgsgirl

What do people who rent all their lives do when they retire & only have a pension coming in...do they suddenly find it hard to pay the same rent as they have been doing all their working lives?

Henlars67

remsburgsgirl wrote: »

What do people who rent all their lives do when they retire & only have a pension coming in...do they suddenly find it hard to pay the same rent as they have been doing all their working lives?

I never think that far ahead. I'll cross that hurdle if I come to it.

Sam Kade

The Mustard wrote: »

Tis dead money OP. What a fella like you wants is a massive fcuking mortgage.:pac:

Not everyone that owns a house have a mortgage

remsburgsgirl

Henlars67 wrote: »

I never think that far ahead. I'll cross that hurdle if I come to it.

...it's the only thing about renting that worries me

fasttalkerchat

OneArt wrote: »

All the taxes, water charges etc. coupled with the constant f*cking maintenance of the roof, heating system and all that sh!t that owning a property brings, it's a bigger pain in the arse than renting.

All of that gets passed on to the tenant eventually. No landlord just wants their mortgage paid, maintenance is always factored in.

Femme_Fatale

Morag wrote: »

Other countries have a renting culture were you can have a 5, 10 or 30 year lease on a house.
We don't have that here, most leases are only 1 year and if you have kids moving every few years would be a nightmare.

+1. I would not like to rent forever.

Lars1916

Lars1916 wrote: »

Might be a German thing, but sometimes you have to move with your job, or because of finding a decent one...and if you own a house, you are in a catch 22, I suppose

Some people want to live in a certain place though and not move. They would rather change job, change their area of work etc etc but moving is not something they want to do.

I know and some point in the next few years I want to move back living at/near home and that's where I want to settle, nowhere else is going to cut it for various reasons.

donegal__road wrote: »

If anyone feels like buying a house, remember this... that if a house is advertised with a price tag of €250,000, your not actually buying it for that amount, unless you pay cash for it on the day.

The cost of borrowing €250,000 @ 4% for 30 years is €179,000

so your total repayments on a house valued at €250,00 will be €429,673 on a 100% mortgage.


The second thing you do is go and ask someone in the building trade, the cost of building a house yourself. You will find that you could build a pretty significant residence for €179,000.

And a renter is most likely paying more per month in rent than the person is paying in their mortgage repayments. So they pay more than 430,000 over 30 years and haven't a blade of grass to show for it.

donegal__road

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And what is the cost of paying rent for 30 years? Not even including inflation/deflation? Say rent is average €1200 for a family home, that works out at €432,000. And at the end of it you have nothing, it's still somebody elses house.

You might build an alright house for €179,000, but what about the price of land? a small amount of people are gifted land from family but for the majority it's not an option.

As has already been said, interest is the service payment for using the banks money. Rent is the service payment for living in somebody elses house. You choose whichever suits your circumstances but at the end of the day if you buy something to live in at least you have something to live in when you're old, retired and on a limited income. We don't have a great culture of 3 generations living in the same household to look after our elders.

Where I live, it is very much a renters market.. you can rent as family home for €400 per month.

I included the cost of the site in €179,000. Again, I am referring to rural Ireland.

I have spoken to builders who during the boom, were building for 1 and selling for 9 in the Dublin area

Pen.Island

I just can't get a "home" feeling from a rented house. You can't do what you like, you can't bore a hole through a wall for a connection or wire. You can't paint it when and what you like, you can't put in tiles over carpets etc.

Henlars67

Pen.Island wrote: »

I just can't get a "home" feeling from a rented house. You can't do what you like, you can't bore a hole through a wall for a connection or wire. You can't paint it when and what you like, you can't put in tiles over carpets etc.

You can't do that anywhere. You'd need to take up the carpet first regardless of whether you're the home owner or a tenant.

Femme_Fatale

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Are you insane? The absolute shíte quality of some of the boom apartments don't deserve to be half the price they are.

Yeh true, I was only looking at it from a different angle - as in, levelling rents would prevent home-owners from overcharging to renters. But there should be a certain minimum standard too, which, I found from looking for places in Dublin a few years back, to be distinctly lacking at times.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

One group of people will favour renting - another group will favour buying.

Well plenty see pros and cons to both, but it's very much dependent on the person's set of circumstances at the time.

borderlinemeath

donegal__road wrote: »

Where I live, it is very much a renters market.. you can rent as family home for €400 per month.

I included the cost of the site in €179,000. Again, I am referring to rural Ireland.

I have spoken to builders who during the boom, were building for 1 and selling for 9 in the Dublin area

Where you live.....no disrespect intended, has higher unemployment (one of the highest youth unemployment) and the lowest disposable income per head in Ireland, as well as being a border county which usually (currency depending) is an economic disadvantage for indigenous trade. It's really not surprising it's that cheap to live there, while it's a stunningly beautiful county, opportunities are few are far between. In fact, it's somewhere where, if I lived there, I would probably rent because of the lack of opportunity and the niggling thought that I may well have to move to a city for employment.

As for your house/site theory for €179,000, why build when you can buy a house for far less in Donegal? The property market is like a lot of rural Ireland, plenty of houses that won't sell, some unfinished ghost estates and prices for a walk in condition semi in Letterkenny for about €40k.

Pen.Island

Henlars67 wrote: »

You can't do that anywhere. You'd need to take up the carpet first regardless of whether you're the home owner or a tenant.

I meant like, choosing tiles over carpets. i.e replacing them with tiles.

Galwayguy35

Daveysil15 wrote: »

What would be the requirements for a single applicant looking for a mortgage?

I got mine back in 2007 from BOI, I had savings of 10% of the mortgage and a full time job and they seemed happy with that.

Might be a bit more tricky these days though, I dealt with the bank myself but alot of people go to a broker to get the best deal for themselves.

joe swanson

I own 20* houses so that automatically makes me better than everyone else and the indo are obliged to print a pullout supplement about me because of this.*

*may not be true

Daveysil15

I really wish there were more short term renting options. Even a 1 year lease is too big of a commitment for me.

Daveysil15

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I really wish there were more short term renting options. Even a 1 year lease is too big of a commitment for me.

House shares are probably the easiest option as (from my experience) you don't have to sign anything.

Daveysil15

Asher Echoing Ballistic wrote: »

House shares are probably the easiest option as (from my experience) you don't have to sign anything.

Ohh jasus no, I need my privacy. What if I wanted to bring home a looker?

Chattastrophe!

remsburgsgirl wrote: »

What do people who rent all their lives do when they retire & only have a pension coming in...do they suddenly find it hard to pay the same rent as they have been doing all their working lives?

Well, I personally don't intend on living off just a state pension when the time comes! The cost of potentially having to pay rent will be built into my pension/savings over the years.

Having said that, I'm only 28 now, I may well end up deciding to buy in a few years. I'm in no rush to do so though.

Henlars67

Asher Echoing Ballistic wrote: »

House shares are probably the easiest option as (from my experience) you don't have to sign anything.

tried that a few times. It's not for me.

Daveysil15

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Ohh jasus no, I need my privacy. What if I wanted to bring home a looker?

Henlars67 wrote: »

tried that a few times. It's not for me.

I agree with you both, I hate house sharing but have been doing it the last 4 years or so (as it's what funds allowed) having been living at home before that and you just have no comfort sharing with strangers compared to living at home or having your own place.

I've very nearly reached my limit now on putting up with sharing but hopefully next year I will in a position to get my own place.

MadsL

remsburgsgirl wrote: »

What do people who rent all their lives do when they retire & only have a pension coming in...do they suddenly find it hard to pay the same rent as they have been doing all their working lives?

They cash in their lifetime of investments that earned money rather than paid the interest on a mortgage and buy a retirement property outright.

RE: "dead money"

I just installed a solar system that covers 105% of my electricity use. It will save me $85,000 in electricity bills over its lifetime. It cost $18,000.

Electricity bills are dead money therefore, are they not? Or does it suit you not to have to spend the 18k upfront.

Pen.Island

MadsL wrote: »

They cash in their lifetime of investments that earned money rather than paid the interest on a mortgage and buy a retirement property outright.

RE: "dead money"

I just installed a solar system that covers 105% of my electricity use. It will save me $85,000 in electricity bills over its lifetime. It cost $18,000.

Electricity bills are dead money therefore, are they not? Or does it suit you not to have to spend the 18k upfront.

What system did you put in?

Also you will still have electricity bills most likely.

MadsL

Pen.Island wrote: »

What system did you put in?

Also you will still have electricity bills most likely.

I live in New Mexico - 300+ sun days a year = I'll have electricity cheques.

It's a Sunpower PV system - A shade under 6 KW...should knock out about 9500 kwH a year.

brokenarms

If you are any sort of responsible man. You will provide your own own home for your family to live in . Just like your da, and your das, da.

Man up.

Get up to your tits in debt like me.

mikehn

Never been a better time to buy but the problem is that its so darned hard to get a mortgage. I have had my old family home on the market for two years now for the princley sum of 75k. I have had a lot of interest from first time buyers but they have not been able to get mortgage approval.Its let at the moment to a decent guy who lost his job recently, he'd love to buy as his current rent would be the same as a 25 yr mortgage repayment but no job no mortgage.:mad:

MadYaker

I could understand it if you had kids and wanted to have to leave to them when you die. But I can't see myself buying a house any time soon.

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

They cash in their lifetime of investments that earned money rather than paid the interest on a mortgage

In a time where monthly rents are the same or in an awful lot of cases a lot more than equivalent mortgage repayments where are renters getting this money to invest.

MadsL

Asher Echoing Ballistic wrote: »

In a time where monthly rents are the same or in an awful lot of cases a lot more than equivalent mortgage repayments where are renters getting this money to invest.

That's where you judge the market.

When we were renting a two bed apartment in Dublin "worth" close to "a million" for €1800 a month it made no sense to buy the same place for €950,000.

In my current city, where rentals are running close to $2000 a month it makes more sense to buy.

The biggest dead money is the close to €250k-300k we would have lost in buying that apartment.

Whilst we spent €200k on rent over the ten years, we saved between €50-100k+ on lost resale value that, imho will never be recouped in the Dublin apartment market.

dirtyden

MadsL wrote: »

That's where you judge the market.

When we were renting a two bed apartment in Dublin "worth" close to "a million" for €1800 a month it made no sense to buy the same place for €950,000.

In my current city, where rentals are running close to $2000 a month it makes more sense to buy.

The biggest dead money is the close to €250k-300k we would have lost in buying that apartment.

Whilst we spent €200k on rent over the ten years, we saved between €50-100k+ on lost resale value that, imho will never be recouped in the Dublin apartment market.

That's the crux of it really isn't it. My mortgage currently is a lot less than the rent I paid a year ago before buying. The same situation would not have existed 5 years ago when I would have been lumbered with a huge 40 year mortgage for the same house. I paid less than half of the price the house would have gone for at the top of the market.

Irish people are culturally inclined to buy though no matter what the situation. Property was always seen as the most sound long term investment, which to be fair in the majority of cases it was, until more recent times.

MadsL

dirtyden wrote: »

That's the crux of it really isn't it. My mortgage currently is a lot less than the rent I paid a year ago before buying. The same situation would not have existed 5 years ago when I would have been lumbered with a huge 40 year mortgage for the same house. I paid less than half of the price the house would have gone for at the top of the market.

Irish people are culturally inclined to buy though no matter what the situation. Property was always seen as the most sound long term investment, which to be fair in the majority of cases it was, until more recent times.

Nope.

http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/eqm-property-prices-1.png

You would have done waaaaaaaayyyyyy much better in terms of return if you had been investing in stocks through the 38 years 1975-2013.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Suwhj1SLqkM/Tf9rcpRqkHI/AAAAAAAAASQ/MUjaNsHzvBM/s1600/Dow+Jones+1975+to+Present.PNG

The Dow just hit 16000, from a base of 600 in 1975. So 100000 quid invested in 1975 would be now be worth 2.6 million.

A 100,000 house bought in 1975 is worth maybe twice, three times that now, with considerable monies put into maintenance.

Houses are liabilities not investments.

Mr. Tom

Sorry, in a rush! Don't have time to read thread, just wanted to say owning horses can be expensive. They are beautiful animals no doubt, I just don't know if I would ever own one. They can be expensive. Anyway must go, in a rush, don't have time to read the thread.

MadsL

Mr. Tom wrote: »

Sorry, in a rush! Don't have time to read thread, just wanted to say owning horses can be expensive. They are beautiful animals no doubt, I just don't know if I would ever own one. They can be expensive. Anyway must go, in a rush, don't have time to read the thread.

Sorry, in a rush, don't have time to read your post, bye now...

moxin

Asher Echoing Ballistic wrote: »

I agree with you both, I hate house sharing but have been doing it the last 4 years or so (as it's what funds allowed) having been living at home before that and you just have no comfort sharing with strangers compared to living at home or having your own place.

I've very nearly reached my limit now on putting up with sharing but hopefully next year I will in a position to get my own place.

Agree but the rental market where you share is different to the property market where you are buying on your own. Its alot harder to buy even when financially solvent than to share that rent.
What I mean is that as a singleton buyer, you're competing against couples when buying a house. Couples have more financial power. Ain't fair I know, its the heavy price for privacy and independence.

dutcher

It depends, think of this. You are working in Waterford and are 10 years into your mortgage. The company you are working for closes down and cannot get any work in the south east in the same job. Only work is in Dublin so you have to move there and live in a **** hole in Dublin and try to keep your mortgage paid.

A nice house in Waterford is 130K while in Dublin it would probably be 260K.

You can move anywhere in the country renting and are not tied down to owing money. Until the economy picks up or someone is working in a multi national company that they know is doing well and wont shut down then maybe get a mortgage.

Look at all the poor feckers who bought houses in the boom and are now been reprocessed.

Pen.Island

moxin wrote: »

Agree but the rental market where you share is different to the property market where you are buying on your own. Its alot harder to buy even when financially solvent than to share that rent.
What I mean is that as a singleton buyer, you're competing against couples when buying a house. Couples have more financial power. Ain't fair I know, its the heavy price for privacy and independence.

If you're a singleton I'd prefer to rent.

Have you made up your mind regarding kids/wife/job etc.

If you're a singleton for life you'd only be looking at a 2 bed max, whereas couples would be looking at 4 bed+

tin79

dutcher wrote: »

Look at all the poor feckers who bought houses in the boom and are now been reprocessed.

reprocessed, Like in the Matrix?