50th Anniversary of Kennedy Assassination

fryup

all you deluded people out there who believe in those conspiracy theories..

if you have the time...watch this

Santa Cruz

The unspoken fact about the JFK killing is that JFK was not the target. The real target was Jackie Kennedy. Oswalds hated American women and Jackie was the epitome of the American woman of the 1960s. Oswald did not have the shooting skill to carry out the assassination and in error shot JFK

MonstaMash

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

JFK was a whoremaster who was probably elected fraudulently.

Why is this guy even discussed anymore let alone lauded?

& why are most of us Irish so fookin obsessed with him (personally I couldn't give a toss about American politics/presidents)

Balaclava1991

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Are you serious? The Kennedy administration (Jack and Bobby, a couple of micks) were reluctant to get involved in the Vietnam war but the CIA and big business had other ideas.

Have you actually read the finer details of Oswald's life? I would suggest you actually read the Warren Commission Report and then read Norman Mailer's unsurpassed biography Oswald's Tale. Oswald's entire life day by day has scrutinized and poured over and gone through with a fine tooth comb. The guy was a loner, a pathetic loser and a violent crackpot. All the forensic evidence points to Oswald and his lack of associations, friends or lasting relationships and prove beyond reasonable doubt that he acted alone.

Balaclava1991

buried wrote: »

What about the actual words that came out of his actual mouth after the assassination, (before he was shot dead himself) where he exclaimed " I am a Patsy". Why do you think he chose those pitiful words and not proclaim words that would describe (as you say) his hatred for capitalism, JFK and the United States?

Are you for real? A criminal caught red handed who screams he is innocent? It must be a first!:)

buried

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Are you for real? A criminal caught red handed who screams he is innocent? It must be a first!:)

As far as I am aware Oswald was never sent to trial, never convicted, never found guilty in an actual court of law, so how is he a 'criminal'?

I would have assumed if he did act alone he wouldn't waste no time in proclaiming his part in the act - much like John Wilkes Booth did when he shot Lincoln "I have avenged the South, I have avenged the South"

Balaclava1991

buried wrote: »

As far as I am aware Oswald was never sent to trial, never convicted, never found guilty in an actual court of law, so how is he a 'criminal'?

I would have assumed if he did act alone he wouldn't waste no time in proclaiming his part in the act - much like John Wilkes Booth did when he shot Lincoln "I have avenged the South, I have avenged the South"

Have you even bothered to read the Warren Commission Report?

The evidence against Oswald is absolutely overwhelming and irrefutable.

Following this link of you want to read the evidence against Oswald:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ../jfkinfo/wcrtoc.htm

Only in a fantasy world could Oswald have been innocent.

buried

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Have you even bothered to read the Warren Commission Report?.

The same Warren Commission report that The United States House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1976 found to be completely flawed and incorrect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations

Saganist

I only started reading the Warren Report and to be honest, after only reading the Conclusion section at the start it seems to me that the testimony of one man ( Brennan ) sends the report into a spin of nailing the shooting on LHO.

It seems extremely poorly written thus far and I can see why so many people describe it as flawed.

I'll continue reading, but would really like to know why eyewitness testimony stating that a shot was fired from the grassy knoll was not even considered. Also, I really don't know how they can come to the conclusion that the fatal head shot was shot from behind Kennedy, looking at the Zapruder film it seems obvious to me that the shot came from the front.

Also. The number of shots ( 3 ) seems to me to too low to cause the number of hits. i.e. Kennedy in the head, the magic bullet ( which is possible to cause all those injuries ) but also there was a bullet hole in the windscreen as well as a superficial hole in the car, as well as the chap that was hit by a ricochet at the triple underpass. To me that adds up to more than 3 shots and if the head shot came from the front then there was a second rifle.

I'm am not one for conspiracy theories but the JFK assassination just seems so odd. There are numerous unanswered questions if you ask me and I feel that there must have been some sort of cover up.

MadYaker

Watched a great documentary about The Cuban Missile Crisis last night. I never really knew much about it but it was pretty how close the world came to large scale nuclear destruction.

krudler

Saganist wrote: »

I only started reading the Warren Report and to be honest, after only reading the Conclusion section at the start it seems to me that the testimony of one man ( Brennan ) sends the report into a spin of nailing the shooting on LHO.

It seems extremely poorly written thus far and I can see why so many people describe it as flawed.

I'll continue reading, but would really like to know why eyewitness testimony stating that a shot was fired from the grassy knoll was not even considered. Also, I really don't know how they can come to the conclusion that the fatal head shot was shot from behind Kennedy, looking at the Zapruder film it seems obvious to me that the shot came from the front.

Also. The number of shots ( 3 ) seems to me to too low to cause the number of hits. i.e. Kennedy in the head, the magic bullet ( which is possible to cause all those injuries ) but also there was a bullet hole in the windscreen as well as a superficial hole in the car, as well as the chap that was hit by a ricochet at the triple underpass. To me that adds up to more than 3 shots and if the head shot came from the front then there was a second rifle.

I'm am not one for conspiracy theories but the JFK assassination just seems so odd. There are numerous unanswered questions if you ask me and I feel that there must have been some sort of cover up.

Didn't the magic bullet make some injury that wouldn't be possible, as if the bullet stopped in mid air and turned on it's own axis. I definitely don't think Oswald was alone, maybe not to the degree of some of the bigger theories but the physics of it don't make sense for it to be a single rifleman. And wasn't Oswald supposed to be a pretty mediocre shot?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

people do realise we're talking about the american state here right? the one that couldn't keep watergate a secret and the one that is currently going through a very public and very embarrasing revealing of it's global spying program?

you think these people would be able to keep something like this a secret for 50 years? seriously?

krudler

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

people do realise we're talking about the american state here right? the one that couldn't keep watergate a secret and the one that is currently going through a very public and very embarrasing revealing of it's global spying program?

you think these people would be able to keep something like this a secret for 50 years? seriously?

Managed to fake the moon landings though :pac:

Saganist

krudler wrote: »

Didn't the magic bullet make some injury that wouldn't be possible, as if the bullet stopped in mid air and turned on it's own axis. I definitely don't think Oswald was alone, maybe not to the degree of some of the bigger theories but the physics of it don't make sense for it to be a single rifleman. And wasn't Oswald supposed to be a pretty mediocre shot?

Oswald was a grade 2 marksman. He was a really good shot.

The magic bullet seems to good to be true alright but it is possible that one bullet could make those injuries.

What I don't believe is that the bullet that made all those injuries was found on a stretcher in Parkland hospital ( Warren exhibit 399 ) with some obvious damage to it but not nearly enough damage if had passed through Connollys chest, wrist and then thigh. It should have been in bits after that but we are supposed to believe that it was fairly intact.

Again. Just another odd thing amungst a multitude of odd things that surrounds 22nd Nov 1963. Another one being, why was JFKs body removed from Parkland hospital to Washington to have an autopsy performed by a physician that had never performed an autopsy on a gun victim before ?. And why did that physician burn his notes after the autopsy had been performed ?

Saganist

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

people do realise we're talking about the american state here right? the one that couldn't keep watergate a secret and the one that is currently going through a very public and very embarrasing revealing of it's global spying program?

you think these people would be able to keep something like this a secret for 50 years? seriously?

They couldn't keep watergate a secret. E Howard Hunt was involved heavily in that scandal.

And.

He also "confessed" to being involved in the JFK assassination. Makes one wonder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Howard_Hunt

krudler

Saganist wrote: »

Oswald was a grade 2 marksman. He was a really good shot.

The magic bullet seems to good to be true alright but it is possible that one bullet could make those injuries.

What I don't believe is that the bullet that made all those injuries was found on a stretcher in Parkland hospital ( Warren exhibit 399 ) with some obvious damage to it but not nearly enough damage if had passed through Connollys chest, wrist and then thigh. It should have been in bits after that but we are supposed to believe that it was fairly intact.

Again. Just another odd thing amungst a multitude of odd things that surrounds 22nd Nov 1963. Another one being, why was JFKs body removed from Parkland hospital to Washington to have an autopsy performed by a physician that had never performed an autopsy on a gun victim before ?. And why did that physician burn his notes after the autopsy had been performed ?

Yeah so a bullet that went through two people multiple times was found in near mint condition outside the body? nah, it's the stuff like that which points to a conspiracy. I must watch JFK again, it's movie with a lot of liberties/theories and heresay but it's a great film. Donald Sutherland's monologue about the events around the assassination is amazing.

Saganist

krudler wrote: »

Yeah so a bullet that went through two people multiple times was found in near mint condition outside the body? nah, it's the stuff like that which points to a conspiracy. I must watch JFK again, it's movie with a lot of liberties/theories and heresay but it's a great film. Donald Sutherland's monologue about the events around the assassination is amazing.

That and the Zapruder film, which to me shows that the head shot came from the front, not the rear.

I hate conspiracies, however, JFK is one such event where the official report has multiple holes in it.

HerrScheisse

anncoates wrote: »

Is it your time of the month?

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Probably yours. ANN

Two cynics, both alike in dignity,
On fair Boards, where we set our scene...

Elmer Blooker

Frito wrote: »

22nd November 1963 - JFK shot
23rd November 1963 - Dr. Who appeared


Just sayin'.

22nd November 1963 - JFK shot The Beatles second album - With the Beatles released.

Too Tough To Die

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

people do realise we're talking about the american state here right? the one that couldn't keep watergate a secret and the one that is currently going through a very public and very embarrasing revealing of it's global spying program?

you think these people would be able to keep something like this a secret for 50 years? seriously?

You think the US has no secrets? Come on man.

fryup

Saganist wrote: »

Oswald was a grade 2 marksman. He was a really good shot.

The magic bullet seems to good to be true alright but it is possible that one bullet could make those injuries.

of course it is.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM

Balaclava1991

Saganist wrote: »

That and the Zapruder film, which to me shows that the head shot came from the front, not the rear.

I hate conspiracies, however, JFK is one such event where the official report has multiple holes in it.

The bullet entered the back of the head and exited the top front right of the skull.

The autopsy photos, x-rays, the autopsy report and the Zapruder film all shows this quite clearly.

Balaclava1991

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

You think the US has no secrets? Come on man.

For a conspiracy to work, the following would have to have happened:

Someone must have perfectly imitated Oswald's handwriting on the mail order for the rifle and revolver from the sporting goods magazine and the handwriting experts who verified that the handwriting was genuine must have been involved in the plot.

Ruth Paine who told Oswald about the job at the Texas School Book Depository and his boss Roy Truly who gave him the job must have been in on the plot and must have known about JFK's visit to Dallas BEFORE Kennedy even thought of going there.

Someone must have taken pictures of a man with a rifle and revolver in the backyard of Oswald's former residence and superimposed his face onto the photo and forced his wife to lie about taking the photos and sent a photo to George De Mohrenschilt with the message written by Oswald's handwriting imposter on the back and must have known it would only be discovered in the 1970s and convinced De Mohrenschilt to blow his brains out with a shotgun.

Someone must have forced Wesley Buell Frazier to lie about the curtain rods package or else Frazier himself was involved in the conspiracy to transport the rifle to the Book Depository.

Someone must have sneaked into the building, stacked the boxes around the 6th floor window, placed the paper bag with the fibers from a blanket in the Paine garage, planted three spent hulls fired by the rifle, planted the rifle and planted Oswald's work clipboard behind some boxes and made sure Oswald's shirt fibres were between the metal buttplate and wooden stock of the rifle.

Someone must have pressed Oswald's palm onto the dissembled rifle barrel and someone must have left Oswald's jacket behind in the Book Depository.

They must have done all this without Oswald or the cops who investigated the crime suspecting a thing - UNLESS the cops were all intimately involved in the plot as well.

Someone decided that instead of simply exposing Kennedy as a sex maniac who liked to screw prostitutes in the White House swimming pool and force him to resign in disgrace, they instead hired contract killers and placed one of them behind a picket fence within feet of cops and witnesses - unless they cops and "witnesses" were also in on the plot - and others on rooftops and in windows which risked them being seen by the occupants of the buildings or cops and witnesses in the streets below.

Some how these world class riflemen fired 6 shots but somehow wounded Connally five times and wounded Kennedy three times with only one kill shot to the head.

Someone planted the bullet at Parkland hospital somehow knowing that Connally would be wounded in the back, chest, wrist and leg.

Someone hired Ruby to kill Oswald and Ruby was so sure he would be on time to kill Oswald in the underground car lot that he wire money to an ex-stripper at 11.17 from a Western Union and arrived in time to kill Oswald at 11.21.

And in 50 years since the events of that day nobody grew a conscience or saw $ signs and thought to leak the incredible plot to the press.

A sane logical rational person would have to conclude that a conspiracy is simply impossible.

Laois_Man

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

For a conspiracy to work, the following would have to have happened:

Someone must have perfectly imitated Oswald's handwriting on the mail order for the rifle and revolver from the sporting goods magazine and the handwriting experts who verified that the handwriting was genuine must have been involved in the plot.

Ruth Paine who told Oswald about the job at the Texas School Book Depository and his boss Roy Truly who gave him the job must have been in on the plot and must have known about JFK's visit to Dallas BEFORE Kennedy even thought of going there.

Someone must have taken pictures of a man with a rifle and revolver in the backyard of Oswald's former residence and superimposed his face onto the photo and forced his wife to lie about taking the photos and sent a photo to George De Mohrenschilt with the message written by Oswald's handwriting imposter on the back and must have known it would only be discovered in the 1970s and convinced De Mohrenschilt to blow his brains out with a shotgun.

Someone must have forced Wesley Buell Frazier to lie about the curtain rods package or else Frazier himself was involved in the conspiracy to transport the rifle to the Book Depository.

Someone must have sneaked into the building, stacked the boxes around the 6th floor window, placed the paper bag with the fibers from a blanket in the Paine garage, planted three spent hulls fired by the rifle, planted the rifle and planted Oswald's work clipboard behind some boxes and made sure Oswald's shirt fibres were between the metal buttplate and wooden stock of the rifle.

Someone must have pressed Oswald's palm onto the dissembled rifle barrel and someone must have left Oswald's jacket behind in the Book Depository.

They must have done all this without Oswald or the cops who investigated the crime suspecting a thing - UNLESS the cops were all intimately involved in the plot as well.

Someone decided that instead of simply exposing Kennedy as a sex maniac who liked to screw prostitutes in the White House swimming pool and force him to resign in disgrace, they instead hired contract killers and placed one of them behind a picket fence within feet of cops and witnesses - unless they cops and "witnesses" were also in on the plot - and others on rooftops and in windows which risked them being seen by the occupants of the buildings or cops and witnesses in the streets below.

Some how these world class riflemen fired 6 shots but somehow wounded Connally five times and wounded Kennedy three times with only one kill shot to the head.

Someone planted the bullet at Parkland hospital somehow knowing that Connally would be wounded in the back, chest, wrist and leg.

Someone hired Ruby to kill Oswald and Ruby was so sure he would be on time to kill Oswald in the underground car lot that he wire money to an ex-stripper at 11.17 from a Western Union and arrived in time to kill Oswald at 11.21.

And in 50 years since the events of that day nobody grew a conscience or saw $ signs and thought to leak the incredible plot to the press.

A sane logical rational person would have to conclude that a conspiracy is simply impossible.

The problem with this is, I don't think there's very many so called conspiracy theorists who claim Oswald had nothing to do with it. Did he act alone is the question they ask.

krudler

Laois_Man wrote: »

The problem with this is, I don't think there's very many so called conspiracy theorists who claim Oswald had nothing to do with it. Did he act alone is the question they ask.

Exactly, I don't think he was alone, maybe not to the degree of having everyone in Washington involved either but definitely not just himself. Too much coincidence and shady stuff after it.

Balaclava1991

krudler wrote: »

Exactly, I don't think he was alone, maybe not to the degree of having everyone in Washington involved either but definitely not just himself. Too much coincidence and shady stuff after it.

There is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy.

Nothing.

Never in the history of world has there been a plot in which some evidence somewhere came to light.

The only thing the conspiracy theorist can up with is fabrications, lies, fantasy and half baked nonsense.

Oswald had no associations with anybody. He had NO friends. He had no education. He worked in a series of dead end jobs. His naive young wife had finally seen the light and was on the verge of leaving him with the kids. He had barely a cent to his name.

The only skill this loser had was to shoot with a rifle.

Balaclava1991

Laois_Man wrote: »

The problem with this is, I don't think there's very many so called conspiracy theorists who claim Oswald had nothing to do with it. Did he act alone is the question they ask.

I think I have demolished thoroughly any possibility of a conspiracy.

Just how many people would have to be involved?

If Oswald was involved and then framed by his co-conspirators don't you think they would have made sure Oswald was found with a .38 bullet through the head with the revolver in his hand in the 6th floor or they would have had a car waiting outside to pick him up and drive him to his death?

Why would they arrange to have another noob like Ruby kill him on live TV?

Why couldn't they have made it easier on themselves by having him hang himself with a bedsheet in his cell?

If you even skim the surface the conspiracy theories just crumple apart.

Lapin

I watched a documentary on the life of JFK last night but fell asleep just as he was arriving in Dallas.

I'm annoyed now because I was looking forward to seeing how he got on that day.

Laois_Man

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy.

Nothing.

Never in the history of world has there been a plot in which some evidence somewhere came to light.

The only thing the conspiracy theorist can up with is fabrications, lies, fantasy and half baked nonsense.

Oswald had no associations with anybody. He had NO friends. He had no education. He worked in a series of dead end jobs. His naive young wife had finally seen the light and was on the verge of leaving him with the kids. He had barely a cent to his name.

The only skill this loser had was to shoot with a rifle.

Never heard of the US house of representative investigation into it no?

Tipsy McSwagger

Laois_Man wrote: »

Never heard of the US house of representative investigation into it no?

They claimed LHO fired 3 shots and an unknown gunman fired a fourth. They based a conspiracy on a fourth shot. The fourth shot was actually a Dictabelt recording from a stuck transmitter on a police motorcycle, which happened a minute after JFK was assassinated. No fourth shot leaves LHO all on his lonesome.

buried

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Oswald had no associations with anybody.

That is just simply not true, Balaclava. Oswald had some very interesting contacts and associations. Associations and contacts which go completely against the official stance portrayed about him. The official line wants people to believe Oswald was a supposed militant 'Leftist/Communist" but within Oswald's own private address book (which was taken at the time of his arrest) are the names and private addresses and private phone numbers of some very prominent American right wing fascists whom Oswald had correspondence with.

People such as Daniel Burros, leader of a then New York Ku Klux Klan chapter and member of the American Nazi Party, Oswald even had the private address and private phone number of George Lincoln Rockwell - The fuhrer of the American Nazi Party at the time. Oswald also had the use of an office at 544 Camp Street/531 Lafayette place, New Orleans, a building controlled by career FBI employee Guy Banister who ran a vicious, violent, right wing, anti communist operation at the same address ( the exact same address which was found stamped on the bogus 'Fair play for Cuba Committee' leaflets that were distributed by Oswald).

The American Nazi Party used the building at 544 Camp Street/531 Lafayette place for meetings/political/propaganda ops and it stands to reason this is where Oswald met and held the private correspondence with these right wing, anti communist fascists that is to be found in his own address book.

But the official line on Oswald is that he was a pro-Cuban, anti fascist, militant leftist, communist. Why then does Oswald have correspondence and associations with the highest ranking right wing fascists within the United States? How does Oswald, the "leftist/communist", manage to conduct highly visible 'anti fascist, leftist and communist' activities from the same building and right under the nose of some of the most vicious and violent fascist right wing thugs in the country mixed with employees of the FBI??

DexyDrain

I guess he also had the right wing white supremacist Gen. Walker's address in there too, close to hand before he tried to blow the right-winger's head off.

Laois_Man

buried wrote: »

People such as Daniel Burros, leader of a then New York Ku Klux Klan chapter and member of the American Nazi Party

Interesting that you bring up the KKK.

Joseph Adams Milteer, who was the director of the Dixie Klan of Georgia, had been threatening JFK as recently as 13 days before the assassination, describing to Miami police informant William Somersett how JFK would be shot - by a high powered rifle out of a window. Furthermore, this information was passed to the secret service due to the fact that Kennedy was visiting Florida less than one week later - but it was ignored while planning Kennedy's trip around Texas which was to follow that. Amazingly, Milteer is present in photographs of the motorcade passing through Dallas on the day of the assassination.

http://theintelligence.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/kennedy_milteer_469.jpg

DexyDrain

Laois_Man wrote: »

Interesting that you bring up the KKK.

Joseph Adams Milteer, who was the director of the Dixie Klan of Georgia, had been threatening JFK as recently as 13 days before the assassination, describing to Miami police informant William Somersett how JFK would be shot - by a high powered rifle out of a window. Furthermore, this information was passed to the secret service due to the fact that Kennedy was visiting Florida less than one week later - but it was ignored while planning Kennedy's trip around Texas which was to follow that. Amazingly, Milteer is present in photographs of the motorcade passing through Dallas on the day of the assassination.

http://theintelligence.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/kennedy_milteer_469.jpg

Allegedly present An expert panel concluded that it did resemble his face and glasses but the guy in the photo is balding whereas Milteer retained a good head of hair long after the assassination and was not as tall as the person in the photo appears to be.

Motivator

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy.

Nothing.

Never in the history of world has there been a plot in which some evidence somewhere came to light.

The only thing the conspiracy theorist can up with is fabrications, lies, fantasy and half baked nonsense.

Oswald had no associations with anybody. He had NO friends. He had no education. He worked in a series of dead end jobs. His naive young wife had finally seen the light and was on the verge of leaving him with the kids. He had barely a cent to his name.

The only skill this loser had was to shoot with a rifle.

This is where the conspiracy theory comes in to play. Oswald was the perfect model for brainwashing, manipulation etc. By all accounts he was a recluse & with little or no education he would have been very easy to brainwash or hypnotise or whatever you wish to call it.

I'm not suggesting it was an inside job but if the US government really did do away with Marilyn Monroe then who is to say that they didn't kill JFK?

DexyDrain

Motivator wrote: »

This is where the conspiracy theory comes in to play. Oswald was the perfect model for brainwashing, manipulation etc. By all accounts he was a recluse & with little or no education he would have been very easy to brainwash or hypnotise or whatever you wish to call it.

I'm not suggesting it was an inside job but if the US government really did do away with Marilyn Monroe then who is to say that they didn't kill JFK?

Because his father was an ambassador, his brother the Attorney General and would presumably have at least one loyal friend in each of the agencies that would have to have been involved?

trackguy

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy.

Nothing.

Never in the history of world has there been a plot in which some evidence somewhere came to light.

The first two sentences are simply untrue. There is plenty of evidence to suggest a possible conspiracy.

Your third sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and is also untrue.

Balaclava1991

Laois_Man wrote: »

Never heard of the US house of representative investigation into it no?

The House Select Committee On Assassinations found no evidence of a conspiracy.

They agreed that Oswald fired three shots and both bullets that struck Kennedy came from Oswald's gun.

No photographic or film evidence, no weapon or shell cases or any other evidence was ever found that indicated a second shooter.

The only "evidence" they had to go on that contradicted the Warren Commission was a police dictabelt recording of a police radio which was left on and recorded four sound impulses which supposedly are four shots.

It has since been proven that the motorcycle was NOT in Dealey Plaza at the time of the murder of the President and analysis of the four "shots" do not match test gunshots.

This is the testimony of Harold Norman who was in the open 5th floor window directly beneath Oswald's 6th floor window.

He heard three shots, the sound of the rifle bolt mechanism and the sounds of the shell casings on the floor above.

Laois_Man

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The House Select Committee On Assassinations found no evidence of a conspiracy.

They agreed that Oswald fired three shots and both bullets that struck Kennedy came from Oswald's gun.

No photographic or film evidence, no weapon or shell cases or any other evidence was ever found that indicated a second shooter.

The only "evidence" they had to go on that contradicted the Warren Commission was a police dictabelt recording of a police radio which was left on and recorded four sound impulses which supposedly are four shots.

It has since been proven that the motorcycle was NOT in Dealey Plaza at the time of the murder of the President and analysis of the four "shots" do not match test gunshots.

This is the testimony of Harold Norman who was in the open 5th floor window directly beneath Oswald's 6th floor window.

He heard three shots, the sound of the rifle bolt mechanism and the sounds of the shell casings on the floor above.

The House of Representative Select Committee on Assasinations concluded that Kennedy
was very likely assassinated as a result
of a conspiracy. Most of the hearings were done behind closed doors and 50,000 documents are still locked away under federal seal to this day. This despite a US Congress law passed over 20 years ago in setting up the Assassination Records Review Board to have all documents disclosed (what's still being hidden and why?). So don't pretend to know fully upon what basis they arrived at their conclusion because you don't actually know.

There are many many pieces of evidence (yes photographic, video and witness accounts) which remain unanswered. Are you trying to coax a list from someone?

While you're correct that the dictabelt recording evidence was later challenged in 1982, do you know that in 2001, a government scientist concluded the HSCA finding of a second shooter was correct and that the 1982 study was flawed. It's the same with virtually EVERY single aspect of the assasination evidence. It's all challenged and all the challenges are challenged also (including the testimony of the 3 guys who were on the 5th floor). It would put your head in a never ending spin

DexyDrain

Laois_Man wrote: »

The House of Representative Select Committee on Assasinations concluded that Kennedy
was very likely assassinated as a result
of a conspiracy. Most of the hearings were done behind closed doors and 50,000 documents are still locked away under federal seal to this day. This despite a US Congress law passed over 20 years ago in setting up the Assassination Records Review Board to have all documents disclosed (what's still being hidden and why?). So don't pretend to know fully upon what basis they arrived at their conclusion because you don't actually know.

There are many many pieces of evidence (yes photographic, video and witness accounts) which remain unanswered. Are you trying to coax a list from someone?

While you're correct that the dictabelt recording evidence was later challenged in 1982, do you know that in 2001, a government scientist concluded the HSCA finding of a second shooter was correct and that the 1982 study was flawed. It's the same with virtually EVERY single aspect of the assasination evidence. It's all challenged and all the challenges are challenged also (including the testimony of the 3 guys who were on the 5th floor). It would put your head in a never ending spin

But we do know that the Kennedy committee, while having certain findings that were slightly at odds with the Warren report, were fully set to endorse the general main findings of the earlier investigations until the last minute acoustical "evidence".

The final report said that although they had no doubts Oswald fired three shots at Kennedy, with two hits, the acoustic evidence and expert claims of 95% probability of a shot coming from a separate direction meant they had to report that a fourth shot was fired that missed the car.

Here's a direct quote from the dissenting views of committee member Robert W. Edgar:

"I agree with the December 13, 1978, first draft of our final report which states on page 68:
The committee finds that the available scientific evidence is insufficient to find that there was a conspiracy to assassinate president Kennedy.

Up to that moment in the life of the committee, we were prepared to go to the American people with this conclusion. Only after the report of Mark R. Weiss and Ernest Aschkenasy, in the 11th hour of our investigation, was the majority persuaded to vote for two gunmen and conspiracy. I respectfully dissented.

...

We found no evidence to suggest a conspiracy. We found no gunmen or evidence of a gunman. We found no gun, no shells, no impact of shots from the grassy knoll. We found no entry wounds from the front into any person, including President John Kennedy and Gov. John Connally. We found no bullets or fragments of bullets that did not belong to the Oswald weapon. And we found little, if any, evidence of partnership with Lee Harvey Oswald. Few credible ear-witness accounts back up the marginal findings of our acoustics experts. "

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/report/html/HSCA_Report_0263a.htm

The dictabelt recording has been thoroughly debunked, only by completely rearranging the synchronisation of the sounds could the report defending it make a very shaky case for it being a real recording of the events. There were no three-wheeler bikes anywhere near the location of the 'shooting' sounds.

Balaclava1991

buried wrote: »

That is just simply not true, Balaclava. Oswald had some very interesting contacts and associations. Associations and contacts which go completely against the official stance portrayed about him. The official line wants people to believe Oswald was a supposed militant 'Leftist/Communist" but within Oswald's own private address book (which was taken at the time of his arrest) are the names and private addresses and private phone numbers of some very prominent American right wing fascists whom Oswald had correspondence with.

Oswald wanted to kill enemies of Marxism.

If you want to kill people you first of all get their details.

He sent a photo of himself in his backyard posing with a rifle - the photo was taken by his wife Marina - to George De Mohrenschildt with "This is the hunter of fascists, ha, ha, ha!" written on the back.

People such as Daniel Burros, leader of a then New York Ku Klux Klan chapter and member of the American Nazi Party, Oswald even had the private address and private phone number of George Lincoln Rockwell - The fuhrer of the American Nazi Party at the time.

Oswald tried to kill right winger General Irwin Walker with his rifle.
Burros and Rockwell were probably other targets he wanted to shoot.

Oswald also had the use of an office at 544 Camp Street/531 Lafayette place, New Orleans, a building controlled by career FBI employee Guy Banister who ran a vicious, violent, right wing, anti communist operation at the same address ( the exact same address which was found stamped on the bogus 'Fair play for Cuba Committee' leaflets that were distributed by Oswald).

Oswald knew about Banister's activities. It was an open secret in New Orleans that right wing groups were preparing to have another go at Cuba. This is why Oswald wanted to get publicity for himself by setting up his unauthorized branch of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee and what better way to goad Anti-Castro Cubans to attack him and get him publicity than first of all pose as an Anti-Castro ex-Marine and then hand out leaflets with 544 Camp Street on them? He got himself interviewed on local radio and television. He thought he had proven his credentials as an Marxist and when he went to Mexico he sought asylum from the Cuban embassy but was thrown out the door.

The American Nazi Party used the building at 544 Camp Street/531 Lafayette place for meetings/political/propaganda ops and it stands to reason this is where Oswald met and held the private correspondence with these right wing, anti communist fascists that is to be found in his own address book.

Oswald would have found those names, numbers and addresses on right wing leaflets and hate mags and in the phone book.
Oswald was not the first and would not be the last left wing activist who hung around the HQs of right organisations handing out leaflets in support of Cuba.

But the official line on Oswald is that he was a pro-Cuban, anti fascist, militant leftist, communist. Why then does Oswald have correspondence and associations with the highest ranking right wing fascists within the United States?

He wanted to attack them and assassinate them with his rifle.

How does Oswald, the "leftist/communist", manage to conduct highly visible 'anti fascist, leftist and communist' activities from the same building and right under the nose of some of the most vicious and violent fascist right wing thugs in the country mixed with employees of the FBI??

Why did anti-war leftists hang around outside the Pentagon a few years later when the U.S. was knee deep in Vietnam? Did that mean they were working for the government? Oswald's ploy to get publicity for his Fair Play For Cuba Committee branch failed and he returned to Dallas with his tail between his legs.
The right wingers would probably have figured out Oswald was pathetic loser with nobody backing him up.
Oswald had to invent his alias to pretend there was nobody but just himself involved in imaginary Fair Play For Cuba New Orleans chapter.

Ruth Paine got Oswald the job in the Book Depository after an neighbor told her a job was going after she told her Marina had a new baby and her husband was looking for work.

When Oswald read in the local paper that Kennedy's motorcade was passing by the very building where he worked he went to his wife's house got his rifle took it to work in the "curtain rods" bag and shot the President from the 6th floor window. He went back to his rooming house to fetch his .38 probably hoping to reach the nearby freeway where he could hijack a vehicle and force the driver to take him south to Mexico.

Instead Tippit saw a man who fit the description of the assassin of the President broadcast on the Dallas Police APB.

Howard L. Brennan gave the description to a Dallas police officer outside the Texas School Book Depository who called it in.

Balaclava1991

Laois_Man wrote: »

The House of Representative Select Committee on Assasinations concluded that Kennedy
was very likely assassinated as a result
of a conspiracy. Most of the hearings were done behind closed doors and 50,000 documents are still locked away under federal seal to this day. This despite a US Congress law passed over 20 years ago in setting up the Assassination Records Review Board to have all documents disclosed (what's still being hidden and why?). So don't pretend to know fully upon what basis they arrived at their conclusion because you don't actually know.

There are many many pieces of evidence (yes photographic, video and witness accounts) which remain unanswered. Are you trying to coax a list from someone?

While you're correct that the dictabelt recording evidence was later challenged in 1982, do you know that in 2001, a government scientist concluded the HSCA finding of a second shooter was correct and that the 1982 study was flawed. It's the same with virtually EVERY single aspect of the assasination evidence. It's all challenged and all the challenges are challenged also (including the testimony of the 3 guys who were on the 5th floor). It would put your head in a never ending spin

Your head maybe.:rolleyes:

The HSCA concluded that Oswald hit Kennedy with two of three shots from the Texas School Book Depository.

The dictabelt was the only "evidence" of a "fourth shot" and it has proven to completely bogus. The four sound impulses are not gunshots.

There is no evidence of a conspiracy.

They went over Oswald with a fine tooth comb - every breath the man every took from childhood right up until the day he died.

Nothing turned up.

Thousands of witnesses were interviewed.

If there was some other evidence they would have found it.

Irish Guitarist

I just watched a documentary on Lee Harvey Oswald (I think it's still on Anytime TV). His shooting was bizarre.

It seems that Jack Ruby was sitting around that morning watching television and had no plans to go anywhere. Then a stripper that worked at his club phoned him looking for her wages. He went out to wire her the money and it seems that he just decided afterwards on the spur of the moment to pop into the police station and shoot Lee Harvey. There had been an armoured van waiting to take Lee Harvey away but there was a ramp that it couldn't fit down so it was driven off. Just after the van pulled away Jack Ruby went down the ramp and entered the police station where he shot Lee Harvey.

The day before Jack Ruby had been hanging around the police station while Lee Harvey was in custody and no one seemed to have had a problem with him wandering around in places he had no business being in.

April O Neill II

This photo of Lyndon B Johnson being sworn in is affecting, much as I don't care that much about the assassination. It was taken only two hours after he was shot. Poor Jackie, she looks shell-shocked, understandably:

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0309/images/life/johnson.jpg

April O Neill II

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Ryan Tubridy will write a 500 page treatise on the 50th anniversary celebrations\commemorations (whatever word one uses) and the affect they had on Ireland.

He'll do that once he's finished creaming himself over the whole thing.

April O Neill II

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

It was a plot, and Im more a skeptic than a conspiracy theorist.
(I dont believe 9/11 or Diana were conspiracies for example)

You don't have to believe in every conspiracy theory to be a conspiracy theorist. :pac:

April O Neill II

DazMarz wrote: »

He and Bobby both tried to shed their father (who was an out and out crook) and his influence.

I'm sure his wealth helped them out a lot in their careers.

April O Neill II

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Also died on November 22nd 1963.
CS Lewis author of The Chronicles of Narnia and the subject of the movie Shadowlands (played by Anthony Hopkins) and another author Aldous Huxley who wrote Brave New World and The Doors of Perception about his use of psychadelic drugs. This is where the band The Doors got their name. Apparently they all died within six hours of each other.
CS Lewis :

Like how nobody noticed Farrah Fawcett dying because Wacko Jacko died the same day. Totally the same. :pac:

My Dad noticed. He was far more upset about Farrah dying. Eeeewwww. :pac:

April O Neill II

Saganist wrote: »

That and the Zapruder film, which to me shows that the head shot came from the front, not the rear.

I think so too, and I ain't no CTer.

Laois_Man

There's a lot more than that which proves some shots came from the front

The windscreen of the limo was also hit - and the car was dismantled very quickly afterwards (you would think it would be a priority to preserve evidence in a presidential assassination wouldn't you?). But photographic evidence and the Zapruder film prove it exists, and several witness who observed the car parked outside Parkland hospital (for example, Dallas Policemen H.R. Freeman and Stavis Ellis - the latter said "You could put a pencil through it"...and did...along with Richard Dudman, a reporter for The St. Louis Post Dispatch) say they saw it. Also, author Doug Weldon tracked down the official at Ford who had been responsible for replacing the windshield, who also confirmed that the original had a through-and-through hole in it.


Thomas Evan Robinson, the mortician who prepared Kennedy's body for the formal state funeral, found that Kennedy's face had several tiny shrapnel wounds from which embalming fluid leaked. Medical experts claim that they very possibly resulted from small shards of glass that broke off when the bullet passed through the windshield.


It's a fact that the Zapurder film has been altered at the very least (see John Costella’s research) with frames 155 and 156 removed. The Warren Commission and the FBI both admitted that due to the oak tree blocking view, a shot from Oswald's window could not have hit Kennedy until Zapruder frame 210. The film shows Kennedy is likely reacting to a missed shot nearly 4 seconds before he could have been in view from the Oswald window. Neither this shot or bullet has been accounted for. Furthermore The Zapruter film shows Kennedy is in deep distress when he emerges from behind the Stemmons freeway sign while Connally is turning. Connally being hit at frame 224 - well after the bullet that hit Kennedy in the throat - which was supposed to be the same bullet. Connolly's jacket can be seen being pushed forward where the bullet exited his chest at this point, Connally even testified that the first shot that was fired definitely did not hit him and nor did the 3rd shot. Furthermore, Connally is seen still holding his hat after being shot in the back with the bullet that was supposed to have been the same one that entered his wrist and shattered his right tendon at his thumb. Medical experts insist he could not have held this hat or anything else with this tendon shattered as it was - meaning at least 2 bullets struck Connally.

Even if you accept the Zapruder film is real and unaltered, why were the running men in the video running away from the triple underpass if the book depository building is where the shots were coming from?

The warren commission rewrote their conclusion to include the magic bullet theory after they discovered that a bystander, James Tague, was also injured that day by flying debris from another bullet striking a kerb. Up to that point, they were ready to say their findings were that Kennedy and Connally were struck by separate bullets - until they found they had to account for another one.

Some witnesses (including Abraham Zapruder) said some of the shooting came from behind the stone wall or behind the picket fence or the railway track area

To prove this, photographic evidence also shows one police officer, Clyde Haygood. who had been in the motorcade thought shots came from behind the picket fence. He dropped his motorcycle and can be seen in a photograph running up the grassy knoll. Several other police officers and over 100 civilians also did the same as can be heard in that days radio commentary - which also states that a gunman was being chased across the railway tracks.

Police officer Joe Marshall Smith, while searching the area at the fence at the back of the grassy knoll in the minutes after the shooting, discovered a man there. He showed Marshall a Secret service badge. But the secret service has stated that there were no agents on the ground in Dealey Plaza before or immediately after the shooting

Many photographs of the motorcade which had the gassy knoll/fence area in the background were confiscated and never returned. Presumably these are held in the 50,000 federal documents still unsealed

A key witness who put 2 other gunman behind the fence in Dealy Plaza, Lee Bowers, who was mysteriously maimed soon after the assassination (when someone cut off a finger) and then died in a traffic accident of which a lot of questions still remain.

Governor Connolly did an interview from his hospital bed shortly after the shooting where he is seen to say he turned to his left and saw that the president had been shot. He changed this account later.

One of the two main doctors who treated JFK on his arrival in the Parkland hospital room, Dr. Ronald Jones who is still alive, immediately said the throat wound was an entry wound, not an exit wound. The other doctor, Malcolm Perry, stated 3 times in a press conference on the very day of the assassination that Kennedy's tiny neck wound appeared to be an entrance wound. But when he testified before the Warren Commission, he stated it was an exit wound - despite having never seen Kennedy's wounds again since. He also wrote on the day that the cause of death was a gunshot wound to the left temple...which blows holes in the argument that all gunshots came from the book depository. Perry refused to speak about it again and he died in 2009. The tiny hole in Kennedy's throat was never even mentioned by the autopsy report as Dr. Humes, who led the autopsy, didn't become aware that it was actually a bullet wound until the next day when he spoke to doctor Perry in Dallas by telephone (he thought it had been a wound caused by the doctors inserting a breathing tube in the tracheostomy). Despite this, Kennedy's throat wound changed from a tiny wound to a large gaping wound after it left Dallas and before the autopsy started, as if someone had gone in to remove a bullet from the neck.

The photograph of the bullet hole in Kennedy's back, together with a diagram made at the autopsy, is in no way even nearly consistent with a wound where the same bullet exits through the throat. The autopsy photographs show the bullet wound in the back to be at 5 to 6 inches lower than the one shown by the diagram contained in the final Warren commission report - the Warren report did not publish the actual photograph and the artist who compiled the diagram for that final report (Harold A. Rydberg) did so without being allowed to see the photographs or the x-rays - he was told where to place the wound (just above the hairline at the back of the neck). Also, to account for the fatal head shot coming from the rear and not the front, Rydberg's other diagram, the one pertaining to the heat shot, also misrepresented the angle of Kennedy's head when it was struck - as can been seen when comparing it with the corresponding frame 312 and frame 313 in the Zapruder film. Looking at the frame 313 photo, how anyone can deny this shot is coming from the front is beyond me.

Furthermore of two wounds on Kennedy's back, they identified the wrong one, the higher of the 2 as the probable gunshot wound. Also, Dr Pierre Finck who was one of the autopsists said while testifying in the criminal trial of Clay Shaw in New Orleans in 1969, that he was ordered not to probe or track the wound in Kennedy's back. The autopsy was carried out by three pathologists, all of them middle–ranking military officers whose only practical experience of forensic autopsies was a one–week course taken by one of the pathologists ten years earlier. They performed the autopsy in the presence of non-medical senior military officers who actively directed proceedings and gave this order.

One manhole in Dealy plaza was covered over a few days after the assassination and the diagrams of the sewer system that was published with the Warren investigation report showed the sewer system in its state after this change was made, not the sewer system as it was on the day of the assassination.

Yet, despite all of this (and much more), many will insist "there is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy. Nothing."