What makes someone Irish?

old hippy

Inspired by some of the threads floating about; I was pondering on the nature of identity. It saddens me to see, on occasion, people dismissing others as not Irish because of their religion, their ancestry, where they live and what politics they gravitate towards. I have found it bemusing when a particular politically charged post might accuse a fellow Irish person of being British or self loathing because they might not buy into a particular brand of politics in Ireland.

Or even an accuastion of not only being self loathing but possibly anti-Irish for similar reasons. Because someone may not agree with or follow the prevailing ideologies. Is it not, in a way, equally anti-Irish to be slating and denigrating fellow Irish people because they are not of a particular political persuasion?

That's the political stuff out of the way. There's a side I love about being Irish and it's that you may not have been born of the stony grey soil, you may not be of a faith, or of another, or your parents came from elsewhere, or you're a few generations out of the aul' sod - but still, by and large, you will be welcomed. Not always, granted. There's all the ugly stuff that's been covered elsewhere and then there's the "plastic" tag which is quite tired and insulting at this stage. If someone wants to be Irish, identifies with the country and the people, the culture etc - why not?

There's no one form of Irishness, is there? There's a rainbow of Irishness, a myriad of different peoples with different outlooks and traditions but all united by Ireland.

Apologies for the spiel, just read one genre of thread too many

The Dom

Location of the maternity hospital / taxi.

Zascar

Moaning, begrudgery and constantly talking about the weather

MonstaMash

This will end well old hippy :eek:

I admire what you are trying to achieve though

I'll remain quiet on this one & observe only...

pablomakaveli

I suppose being born on the island of Ireland or having an Irish parent or parents makes you Irish. Though not everyone born on the island of Ireland will identify as Irish and theres nothing wrong with that either.

Festy

Ginger hair

Boom_Bap

I have a pet Leprechaun chained up in my back garden. Irish as bef*ck.

anncoates

A blubbery crimson head shoehorned into a repulsive GAA jersey.

old hippy

MonstaMash wrote: »

This will end well old hippy :eek:

I admire what you are trying to achieve though

I'll remain quiet on this one & observe only...

Completely up to you, MM

smileyj1987

A love of alcohol and potatoes

errlloyd

You want an honest answer. I work in tourism, we are considered a genuinely warm, funny and interesting people. We're considered well read and we'll educated. Were considered approachable and nice. Everyone in Dublin can talk about the gpo or quote a bit of yeats to someone.

In my opinion it's these things that make us Irish. The minor traits in our character that make us famous throughout the world. Most importantly it's these traits that mean when we sit in a bar in America, or Australia or anywhere else in the world people want to know us.

The language and the gaa is all stuff foreign people haven't heard of until they come here. Sure it makes our country more colourful, but in the grand scheme of things when your abroad it doesn't effect how people see you, because they know nothing about it.

Oranage2

White, Catholic and must know at least 3 lines of the national anthem.

Turtyturd

Being born here.

who the fug

Simples

We get the joke foreigners don't

castletownman

A framed picture of Pope John Paul II/JFK in the "good" sitting room.

A box of biscuits stored away to be used only on special occasions

SEPT 23 1989

the ability to drink their weight in creamy pints of Guinness

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

After drinking pints of Carlsberg in my Liverpool jersey I head to the Chinese on a Saturday.

Oh sorry, what was the question again...?

Mint Aero

Their nationality believe it or not :P:P:P

Turtyturd

Turtyturd wrote: »

Being born here.

While I agree with that, didn't the great fascist McDowell get the rules changed?

guttenberg

Having a Padre Pio sticker in the car.

Ziphius

Deleted User wrote: »

While I agree with that, didn't the great fascist McDowell get the rules changed?

Him and the 80% of Irish people who voted for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

Karl Stein

old hippy wrote: »

Or even an accuastion of not only being self loathing...

Exhibit A:

Many of the responses in this thread.

old hippy

Turtyturd wrote: »

Being born here.

So, if someone is born abroad (to Irish parents or not) and comes to live here at age 2 (and if they get Irish citizenship if not born to Irish parents) they are still not Irish?

Duff

Any excuse to post this.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

An act of givign birth on the part of your mother. Beyond that, who gives a ****?

karaokeman

errlloyd wrote: »

You want an honest answer. I work in tourism, we are considered a genuinely warm, funny and interesting people. We're considered well read and we'll educated. Were considered approachable and nice. Everyone in Dublin can talk about the gpo or quote a bit of yeats to someone.

In my opinion it's these things that make us Irish. The minor traits in our character that make us famous throughout the world. Most importantly it's these traits that mean when we sit in a bar in America, or Australia or anywhere else in the world people want to know us.

The language and the gaa is all stuff foreign people haven't heard of until they come here. Sure it makes our country more colourful, but in the grand scheme of things when your abroad it doesn't effect how people see you, because they know nothing about it.

Bang on, I'm in Canada now studying abroad and a girl I'm living with told me she had no idea Ireland had its own language, it does seem to be one of those things we take for granted.

Major things that define an Irish person for me, being born in Ireland, having Irish parents or close enough relations.

Minor things are listening to trad/folk music, reading Irish literature or appreciating Irish art, and playing Irish sport, not defining traits, but all of which exist to make us distinctive.

Idle Passerby

Growing up in Ireland and being influenced by the society. It annoys me when people wave around passports from countries they may have never even set foot in and say it proves they are that nationality.

poundapunnet

I don't know! I've heard people give out that people who are born here to foreign parents aren't really Irish, I've heard people give out that yanks coming back to try find their relatives after a couple of generations aren't really Irish.

I'd say that Republic of Telly video is as good a litmus test as anything really. Freud described us a nation immune to psychoanalysis, that should really be put on more of the brochures.

Lawrence1895

I'm not Irish, but it strikes me, how much people seem to long to own their own house

biko

A yearning to own a house or a field. Preferably with frontage.

poundapunnet

biko wrote: »

A yearning to own a house or a field. Preferably with frontage.

Oh yeah baby! That's like culchie Spanish fly

Wacker The Attacker

Oranage2 wrote: »

White, Catholic and must know at least 3 lines of the national anthem.

Thats me off the hook

dissed doc

old hippy wrote: »

Inspired by some of the threads floating about; I was pondering on the nature of identity. It saddens me to see, on occasion, people dismissing others as not Irish because of their religion, their ancestry, where they live and what politics they gravitate towards.

Irish =

1. Caucasian
2. Born in Ireland
3. Parents both born in Ireland
4. Grandparents both born in Ireland


Other stuff like "New Irish" for whatever brand of immigrant a person might be selling, is nonsense. Turkish people aren't called "the New Germans" in national newspapers in Germany, nor are Pakistani people in the UK referred to "the new English".

So maybe:

5. Massive inferiority complex with regard to culture and heritage rammed down your throat by a liberal left-wing media.


And that is Irish.

poundapunnet

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Thats me off the hook

Sinn na Fianna Fáil
..............
AMHRÁN NA BHFIANN

Now you're as Irish as most people in the country under that criteria

Ziphius

dissed doc wrote: »

Irish =

1. Caucasian
2. Born in Ireland
3. Parents both born in Ireland
4. Grandparents both born in Ireland


.

Incest is also a requirement? :pac:

dissed doc

Ziphius wrote: »

Incest is also a requirement? :pac:

Hah! I mean on both sides....

srsly78

What makes someone Irish? A passport.

Who makes someone Irish? The minister for foreign affairs!

UCDVet

Turtyturd wrote: »

Being born here.

Guy A is born in Ireland. Six months later his parents emigrate to Canada. He's raised in Canadian schools, with Canadian friends. He knows nothing of Ireland other than his parents used to live there once.

Guy B is born in India. Six months later his parents immigrate to Ireland. He loves Ireland as if it were his home. He is an Irish citizen, he pays Irish taxes, we watches Irish TV, eats Irish food, cheers at Irish sporting events.

I'd say Guy B is a lot more Irish than Guy A.

UCDVet

dissed doc wrote: »

Irish =

1. Caucasian
2. Born in Ireland
3. Parents both born in Ireland
4. Grandparents both born in Ireland


Other stuff like "New Irish" for whatever brand of immigrant a person might be selling, is nonsense. Turkish people aren't called "the New Germans" in national newspapers in Germany, nor are Pakistani people in the UK referred to "the new English".

So maybe:

5. Massive inferiority complex with regard to culture and heritage rammed down your throat by a liberal left-wing media.


And that is Irish.

If you only have two grandparents - you aren't Irish....you are inbred. You should probably check though, you might be English royalty.

poundapunnet

dissed doc wrote: »

Irish =

1. Caucasian
2. Born in Ireland
3. Parents both born in Ireland
4. Grandparents both born in Ireland


And that is Irish.

I'd say there are a couple hundred people around my age who meet all criteria apart from number 2, due to being born in UK or US to parents who were working there in the 80s. Must remind to tell my gaelgoir cousin who's been living here since she was 2 that she's not Irish :rolleyes:

Not even going there with number 1.

diomed

A red lemonade drinking, potato eating begrudger.

Rasheed

Just asked a older gentleman here at work. His answer:

Knowing how to foot turf, solo a ball, genuflect while doing a half hard blessing of yourself and, most importantly, 10 different ways to prepare spuds.

My ten cents, whatever floats your boat. If you want to count yourself Irish, learn the above and you're there

srsly78

Rasheed wrote: »

My ten cents, whatever floats your boat. If you want to count yourself Irish, learn the above and you're there

Unfortunately that won't get you past immigration control at the airport.

mojesius

These lads epitomise a lot of it. From 2:18 onwards is the best part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QHYFXDGf4Y

I'd love to visit Montserrat

jimgoose

srsly78 wrote: »

Unfortunately that won't get you past immigration control at the airport.

No. For that, you'll need to learn how to go to Mass properly:

wingbacknr5

anncoates wrote: »

A blubbery crimson head shoehorned into a repulsive GAA jersey.

Or a crew cut scrote in a "Shams" jersey fighting in the streets with a scrote in "Bohs" jersey.

Take your pick of which stereotypical generalisation floats your boat.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Listening to hip hop music and rap.

Rochelle

UCDVet wrote: »

Guy A is born in Ireland. Six months later his parents emigrate to Canada. He's raised in Canadian schools, with Canadian friends. He knows nothing of Ireland other than his parents used to live there once.

Guy B is born in India. Six months later his parents immigrate to Ireland. He loves Ireland as if it were his home. He is an Irish citizen, he pays Irish taxes, we watches Irish TV, eats Irish food, cheers at Irish sporting events.

I'd say Guy B is a lot more Irish than Guy A.

Not with that tan he's not!

Henlars67

if you have or are entitled to Irish citizenship and you consider yourself Irish, then you're Irish.

dissed doc

UCDVet wrote: »

Guy A is born in Ireland. Six months later his parents emigrate to Canada. He's raised in Canadian schools, with Canadian friends. He knows nothing of Ireland other than his parents used to live there once.

Guy B is born in India. Six months later his parents immigrate to Ireland. He loves Ireland as if it were his home. He is an Irish citizen, he pays Irish taxes, we watches Irish TV, eats Irish food, cheers at Irish sporting events.

I'd say Guy B is a lot more Irish than Guy A.

Guy A is Irish, because usually people are referring to ethnicity and not citizenship. Guy B and his children and children's children will never be Irish, because it's completely impossible. When referring to ethnicity and ethnic "heritage" for want of a description.

Guy A might also very well never have an Irish passport, never set foot in the place. After about 3 generations his kids will be "Canadian". That's simply how I look at it.

Some countries and citizenships are constructed out of economic constructs based on emigration - US, Australia, Canada, etc., . Most European, Asian and African countries are actually consisting of people with some common ethnic line.

Likewise, having a British passport doesn't make you English; but British is a common identity among English, Scottish, and other immigrantsetc., . There are definitely English people, as much as Welsh people, etc., There are Irish people and there are people who have assumed Irish citizenship.

Ireland may be unique in culturally not having a word for people who are not from here. Most likely because people speak English. What is the Irish word for people who are not from here but live here (e.g., Auslander, Buitenlander/Allochtoon, Gaikoku-jin and gaijin, Etranger, etc., etc., ). Virtually every country has one but always in the native language.

coimhthíoch?
eachtrannach?

I have no idea. Using the English word "Irish" will always lead to this argument because it's unsolvable. How do you refer to people who are not from here, in a language that itself has only one word to describe you and everybody here because the language itself is borrowed from another country.

poundapunnet

dissed doc wrote: »

Guy A is Irish, because usually people are referring to ethnicity and not citizenship. Guy B and his children and children's children will never be Irish, because it's completely impossible. When referring to ethnicity and ethnic "heritage" for want of a description.

Guy A might also very well never have an Irish passport, never set foot in the place. After about 3 generations his kids will be "Canadian". That's simply how I look at it.

Some countries and citizenships are constructed out of economic constructs based on emigration - US, Australia, Canada, etc., . Most European, Asian and African countries are actually consisting of people with some common ethnic line.

Likewise, having a British passport doesn't make you English. There are definitely English people, as much as Welsh people, etc., There are Irish people and there are people who have assumed Irish citizenship.

I'm not sure I follow your argument, if it's about ethnicity then an Irish person could become Scottish for example? Is Denzel Washington American? For that matter is any person of European/African descent living in Canada or the US actually Canadian or American and why the distinction between there and everywhere else? What nationality are people who are ethnically Jewish? If someone is mixed race are they automatically the nationality that goes with the ethnicity of the non-Caucasian parent?