What makes someone Irish?

Yellow121

Anyone born in Ireland or in other countries with close Irish heritage makes someone Irish. It's pretty simple. However, someone may be Irish but hold allegiance to another country. They will still be refered to as Irish but not with any pride.

clairefontaine

The citizenship laws of a nation are very telling really. Being born in Ireland isn't enough to get you citizenship. Your parents have to have been residents and I think you do too for a few years. Ore one can have been born abroad to a native born parent to grandparent. That started way before immigration into Ireland and wonder of it will change. It's obviously about bloodline.

I wonder if some kids spend a few years in Ireland being citizens of nowhere?

Germany is also jus sangria.

Malta is selling its citizenship for $650,000.

Compare to the US where birth alone gives you automatic citizenship, but being born abroad to a US citizen doesn't always unless the citizen was a resident. Obviously not about bloodline. It's terra firma.

SharpshooterTom

LordSutch wrote: »

Many different shades of Irishness, including being Irish in a British context, and British in an Irish context. Head wrecking indeed, but what I think it all boils down to is > Personal choice.

Yeah but the problem with that is, is that whatever nationality you "choose" a significant chunk of people from both countries will not accept you as one of them either because you've got the wrong accent or incorrect heritage, and that makes it harder to feel part of nation when your faced with that dilemma, since patriotism is afterall supposed to be a "collective" trait determing what tribe you belong to.

For people like me however, there is no real tribe I belong to as I say I am not seen as a true Brit or Irishman. If I go abroad to Australia and meet fellow poms, this isn't the case for everyone, but as soon as I mention that I have lived in Ireland for the past 13 years and that parents are Irish, a sigificant chunk of people will think well he's not really English.

Its understandable why so many Irish people wouldn't see me as Irish. I never went to catholic schools (went English state schools and an integrated one in Northern Ireland), have never played gaelic sports ever (prefer Football, Rugby and Cricket, i.e. "British" sports), never spoke or learned any Irish, speak with a southern English accent, and wasn't even born here! But like I say I have never felt British or English in my entire life and wouldn't support England at anything usually either.

Nidgeweasel

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yeah but the problem with that is, is that whatever nationality you "choose" a significant chunk of people from both countries will not accept you as one of them either because you've got the wrong accent or incorrect heritage, and that makes it harder to feel part of nation when your faced with that dilemma, since patriotism is afterall supposed to be a "collective" trait determing what tribe you belong to.

For people like me however, there is no real tribe I belong to as I say I am not seen as a true Brit or Irishman. If I go abroad to Australia and meet fellow poms, this isn't the case for everyone, but as soon as I mention that I have lived in Ireland for the past 13 years and that parents are Irish, a sigificant chunk of people will think well he's not really English.

Its understandable why so many Irish people wouldn't see me as Irish. I never went to catholic schools (went English state schools and an integrated one in Northern Ireland), have never played gaelic sports ever (prefer Football, Rugby and Cricket, i.e. "British" sports), never spoke or learned any Irish, speak with a southern English accent, and wasn't even born here! But like I say I have never felt British or English in my entire life and wouldn't support England at anything usually either.

May I direct you to www.boards.co.uk, my pedigree chum.:P

SIR PEADO BAILOUT

smileyj1987 wrote: »

A love of alcohol and potatoes

And sometimes both

SharpshooterTom

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

May I direct you to www.boards.co.uk, my pedigree chum.:P

No point they'll start calling me an Irish bastard if I get there.

An Coilean

dissed doc wrote: »

Ireland may be unique in culturally not having a word for people who are not from here. Most likely because people speak English. What is the Irish word for people who are not from here but live here (e.g., Auslander, Buitenlander/Allochtoon, Gaikoku-jin and gaijin, Etranger, etc., etc., ). Virtually every country has one but always in the native language.

coimhthíoch?
eachtrannach?

Eachtrannach means foreigner.

The word closest to what you are looking for is 'Gall'.

dissed doc

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

What I would like to know is why people seem so hung up on who 'can' and 'cannot' call themselves Irish?

The 'criteria' put forward by some, including being 'Caucasian' and where parents and grandparents were born, has the specific intention of excluding certain groups and quite frankly, qualifies to be labeled with the 'R' word.

Not at all. A person from Norway born to Norwegian parents in China doesn't make them Chinese, does it. If you are Irish and born to Irish parents in Nigeria, you are not Nigerian, are you? THat would be clearly ridiculous. So why is it the case in Ireland that some people are offended by what is common practice all over most of the rest of Europe, Asia and Africa?

Two Russians have a child while working in Japan. The child is Japanese?

But two Sudanese have a child while working in Ireland. The child is Irish?

dingus12

What does it mean to be Irish? It means we're not Fecking British.

dd972

Hank Wannamaker III, from Upstate New York, 58 years old, of German, English and Swedish heritage with one great,great,great, Grandmother from Carlow visits Ireland for the first time in his life...

''Welcome home !, top o' the morning to our returning emigrant Celtic Cousin !, do you want another pint of Guinness? how long are you staying? I'll drive you down to Blarney Castle tomorrow, sure, I've the day off work''

Oisin Finnbarr Proinsias O'Conghaile, born in the UK, (usually London), to Irish parents, entire extended family are Irish, spent every summer of the first twenty years of his life here, has an Irish passport, speaks Irish, speaks English with an English accent albeit an Irish turn of phrase and inflection, knows Irish history and politics inside out, knows every GAA title winner of the last 40 years, you get the general idea...

''Brit !, Tan !, Plastic Paddy !. Are you on holiday?, Your Country, blah, blah, blah''

Kiwi in IE

dissed doc wrote: »

Not at all. A person from Norway born to Norwegian parents in China doesn't make them Chinese, does it. If you are Irish and born to Irish parents in Nigeria, you are not Nigerian, are you? THat would be clearly ridiculous. So why is it the case in Ireland that some people are offended by what is common practice all over most of the rest of Europe, Asia and Africa?

Two Russians have a child while working in Japan. The child is Japanese?

But two Sudanese have a child while working in Ireland. The child is Irish?

You are deliberately being obtuse. There is a massive difference between being born in a place parents were temporarily working then leaving, and growing up and living permanently somewhere. If two Russians have a child in Japan, the child grows up in Japan, has Japanese citizenship, lives there all it's life and has never lives in Russia, what nationality are they? You seem to be advocating that a lot of people should be without any claim to a nationality at all?

You said in an earlier post that in order to be a particular nationality, the person in question, their parents and grandparents must have been born in the country. That would make all of the people in the scenarios you have given above no Nationality at all. They cannot claim the Nationality of their parents because they were not born in that country, and they cannot claim the Nationality of the country they were born in because their parents and grandparents weren't.

It makes sense to accept what National identity people choose for themselves, depending on citizenship dosn't it? If the Irish state sees fit to grant a person citizenship because they meet certain qualifying criteria, and that person then wants to call themselves Irish, is it really worth getting annoyed about and objecting to?

Nationality is dependent on first eligibility for Citzenship, and second, personal identity. I might live here for another 60 years, having only lived in New Zealand for 30, I have an Irish spouse, could apply for citizenship if I wanted (having a British passport due to parent born in Scotland makes that unnecessary), and have a child who is growing up here, but I will never call myself Irish. My son was born in New Zealand also, but as he is growing up here he already strongly identifies as Irish at 5 years of age (despite that he dosn't meet your criteria). If I had exactly the same parentage and country of birth but had moved here at 3 rather than 30, I imagine I would be Irish.

My father was born in Scotland, his parents were Scottish and moved to New Zealand when he was two. He has lived in NZ all his subsequent life, is a NZ citizen and calls himself a New Zealander. I don't see a reason why anyone would object to that, as you apparently would if in that scenario NZ were replaced with Ireland.

Humans are not racehorses or purebred dogs, there is a lot more to us than the antiquated idea of 'bloodlines'. It is 2013 not the 16th century.

poeticseraphim

Citizenship end of. You can become Irish if you gain citizenship in my opinion.

Galwayguy35

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Citizenship end of. You can become Irish if you gain citizenship in my opinion.

You would be an Irish citizen, but if you weren't born in the country couldn't really claim to be Irish.

Kiwi in IE

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You would be an Irish citizen, but if you weren't born in the country couldn't really claim to be Irish.

That is rubbish. Irish parents working abroad for a year have a child while abroad? Parents of mixed nationalities, one Irish, child born abroad, move to Ireland and child grows up here? Are these children not Irish? Some of you really do like to imagine that you are an exclusive little club!

Galwayguy35

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

That is rubbish. Irish parents working abroad for a year have a child while abroad? Parents of mixed nationalities, one Irish, child born abroad, move to Ireland and child grows up here? Are these children not Irish? Some of you really do like to imagine that you are an exclusive little club!

If your not born here your not Irish, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true.

SharpshooterTom

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

If your not born here your not Irish, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true.

So somebody born abroad and moves to Ireland one day old and lives here for all his life bar that one day isn't Irish? And yet somebody who was born here and leaves Ireland a day later never to return is?

Wow talk about very simplistic logic.

Galwayguy35

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

So somebody born abroad and moves to Ireland one day old and lives here for all his life bar that one day isn't Irish? And yet somebody who was born here and leaves Ireland a day later never to return is?

Wow talk about very simplistic logic.

So would the mother be flying out of or into the country straight from the hospital after giving birth:rolleyes:

SharpshooterTom

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So would the mother be flying out of or into the country straight from the hospital after giving birth:rolleyes:

You know what I mean, you're literally discriminating anyone from being Irish because they have missed, a few years, maybe only months at the start.

My 55 year old father was born in Canada in 1958, moved back to Ireland age 2, and has only returned once on a two week holiday when he was 20 in 1978. Thats it. In his 53 years out of 55 he has only spent two weeks in Canada.

Everyone regards him as Irish, very few people, even people who have known him for over 20 years, don't know he was actually born in Canada. The fact he was born there does not negate him from being Irish in anyway. Maybe to you he does, but although you are entitled to your beliefs regarding nationality, they are quite extreme.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I know identity is important for some but don't weigh too much on it. Outside of these Islands it means nothing. They view us as all the same. Flip the coin and your average Paddy or Pom (not all of course) can't tell between an Aussie or a Kiwi or an American or Canadian accent.

They don't care! You're from that general area!! just like some Yanks will give a blank stare when you try and explain the difference between the ROI and UK.

poeticseraphim

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You would be an Irish citizen, but if you weren't born in the country couldn't really claim to be Irish.

Yes you could and you would be correct.
Nationality is really just citizenship the rest is but a fantasy to be honest.

What you are legally defines your status as a citizen or resident etc.

Nationality is not the same as ethnicity or race or religion.

I actually do not believe Irish people are an ethnicity personally.

This is just me but I define ethnic groups as people with shared social experience and or religion custom dress etc and culture.

The truth is that Irish people are too different from each other yet too similar to the UK and US to really be an ethnicity for me. (By the way I am Irish I am a citizen was born here and grew up here). But I don't have a similar way of dressing as an Irish person that differs from international fashion magazines that inspire me. I don't believe we are socially similar and unique enough on this island to make us unique as an ethnic group from anywhere else. Maybe slightly but not consistently enough.

Membership of an ethnic group tends to be associated with shared cultural heritage, ancestry, history, homeland, language (dialect) or ideology, and with symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, physical appearance, etc.

Shared cultural heritage, ancestry, history, homeland are the only things of the above which you could say we might have. And I don't feel our cultural heritage is ubiquitous enough in the country to identify us genuinely with it without being Oirish or phony etc. We share our cultural ancestry with the UK and poss the rest of the EU. And our history too.

For me I don't really know if I relate to the cultural thing anyway. Citizenship and secularism is what most nations are going to be build upon now anyway.

We don't share enough beyond citizenship maybe? Maybe I am wrong I don't know.

LordSutch

Here's a head wrecker for a Sunday morning )

Lets say that the Pelazek family from Poland come here to work for a few years, and while they're here they have two children, who are then issued with Irish passports for the flight back to Poland. They then stay in Poland for life while the childrens memories of Ireland fade into obsurity as the decades pass.

Are those Children forever Irish?

Lets say that the McCartney family from Britain come here to work for a few years, and while they're here they have two children, who are then issued with Irish passports for the flight back to Britain. They then stay in Britain for life while the childrens memories of Ireland fade into obsurity as the decades pass.

Are those Children forever Irish?

Davidius

It's all being misconceptualised. A proper realisation of the structure of one's culture, heritage, ethnicity etc is through a vector space of very large dimension, one which has some coordinates chosen from a connected subset of the reals with finite measure. The unit interval would be the simplest choice of course. How you're going to go about dong that I don't know (but it's no doubt trivial) but I'm sure we can say with confidence that nobody obtains a 1 in the Irish-coordinate.

Xavi6

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You would be an Irish citizen, but if you weren't born in the country couldn't really claim to be Irish.

I was born in Australia to two Irish parents, moved to Dublin aged six weeks, was educated in the Irish system, have 100% Irish mannerisms...yet I'm not Irish.

Bollox, my last 28 years have just been a complete sham ("and a fraud, and a sham" as a wise priest once said)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Citizenship end of. You can become Irish if you gain citizenship in my opinion.

Nationality and citizenshup are not the sae thing. I'm an Irish national, but a German citizen.

dissed doc

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

You are deliberately being obtuse. There is a massive difference between being born in a place parents were temporarily working then leaving, and growing up and living permanently somewhere. If two Russians have a child in Japan, the child grows up in Japan, has Japanese citizenship, lives there all it's life and has never lives in Russia, what nationality are they? You seem to be advocating that a lot of people should be without any claim to a nationality at all?.....

Humans are not racehorses or purebred dogs, there is a lot more to us than the antiquated idea of 'bloodlines'. It is 2013 not the 16th century.

Nope. Any many people from other countries live and work and die in countries other than their birth country.

My point was (reiterated several times) that other countries recognise by and large two types of person. Ireland, by use of English, does not. The actual thought process is limited.

A child of two Pakistani parents in the UK is not English, but definitely British. In Ireland, the child would be Irish, but not Irish. You see? That is the point and the reason it gets emotive. The language used is limited and prevents broader thought on the issue. After two or three generations the child in the UK would probably be very much English. In Ireland, they are "Irish" from the beginning but of course that means so many things, it creates conflict. An example is e.g., Boris Johnson, with his Turkish heritage. Many people might not realise it (by being racist, ironically), because he is white, blonde, etc., . Hence reducing this to a "race" issue is itself stupid). He would be very much "English" now, having lived through generations of the local culture. But his grandfather a hundred years ago would not have been (could not have) exposed to generational cultural values to lead to the same common identity.

Likewise, a child born now to two Turkish people in Ireland, is not Irish per se, because it takes several generations to actually integrate the cultural norms of the society. That is not made faster based on ticking a box for place of birth or ethnicity to "make it so". It simply takes time.

What you feel is Irish may be based on simply a passport or citizenship, yet many others think as in the rest of the world where there is a recognised language used for people who may have citizenship but are not from that country. Like it or not, most countries have that.

Failing to recognise this is the fault of the limitations of the language in Ireland. over 80% of the population of Dubai are now non UAE nationals. Many will stay and have kids. Are the kids Emiratis (the native ethnic group of Dubai)? Clearly not.

THis is the way most of the world works. Accusing anyone in Ireland of being racist is reductionist and redundant. Common practice in the languages and culture across Afirca, Asia and Europe to recognise people from the area and those not. A passport is just a document proving legal status to remain and live in an area.

This debate will always exist in Ireland when it's conducted in English, because there is no English vocabulary to provide the distinctions that other countries have.

You may presume that it's just on a passport, someone else based on ethnicity. Ethnicity is what is the norm throughout the world, which was my point.

( as an aside, none of this has to due with "bloodlines" or whatever. that black/white response is inflammatory and not in the context of what is being discussed).

camel jockey

There should be a test, and the test should involve potatoes.

Howard Juneau

camel jockey wrote: »

There should be a test, and the test should involve potatoes.

How many you can stick up your bum? You go first!

camel jockey

Howard Juneau wrote: »

How many you can stick up your bum? You go first!

4, now you.

Howard Juneau

camel jockey wrote: »

4, now you.

I'm English

camel jockey

Howard Juneau wrote: »

I'm English

Damn, you fooled me. Shame on you. Now how do I get these damn spuds out of my arse?

Annasopra

dd972 wrote: »

like those famous Paddies The Duke of Wellington and Francis Bacon?

Or DeValera?

MajorMax

You must still own the bed your great grandfather hid under in easter 1916

Billy86

camel jockey wrote: »

Damn, you fooled me. Shame on you. Now how do I get these damn spuds out of my arse?

You're not Irish at all then!

Otherwise you would have known that the answer is butter.

An Coilean

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

You are deliberately being obtuse. There is a massive difference between being born in a place parents were temporarily working then leaving, and growing up and living permanently somewhere. If two Russians have a child in Japan, the child grows up in Japan, has Japanese citizenship, lives there all it's life and has never lives in Russia, what nationality are they? You seem to be advocating that a lot of people should be without any claim to a nationality at all?

Well, Japan is a bad example really, you could be third or fourth generation in Japan with Chinease ancestors and still be considered to be Chinease not Japanease.

Blood and ancestory are extreamly important for them.

timthumbni

LordSutch wrote: »

Here's a head wrecker for a Sunday morning )

Lets say that the Pelazek family from Poland come here to work for a few years, and while they're here they have two children, who are then issued with Irish passports for the flight back to Poland. They then stay in Poland for life while the childrens memories of Ireland fade into obsurity as the decades pass.

Are those Children forever Irish?

Lets say that the McCartney family from Britain come here to work for a few years, and while they're here they have two children, who are then issued with Irish passports for the flight back to Britain. They then stay in Britain for life while the childrens memories of Ireland fade into obsurity as the decades pass.

Are those Children forever Irish?

Nationality can be confusing. It has to take in a myriad of factors and all can be interchanged at the drop of a hat.

Personally I would consider the polish example above that if they had their child but then quickly moved back to Poland as being polish without doubt.

Being a Northern Irish unionist is doubly confusing? Am I British, Irish, British-Irish or whatever? Personally I always tell people when abroad that I'm Northern Irish. That may not even be a recognised nationality but who cares.

The latest census in Northern Ireland shows a fair few who identify as being Northern Irish. I think this is a good thing. I certainly don't consider it an insult to be called Irish unless it's forced on you by some shinnerbot as part of a political exercise.

dd972

Xavi6 wrote: »

I was born in Australia to two Irish parents, moved to Dublin aged six weeks, was educated in the Irish system, have 100% Irish mannerisms...yet I'm not Irish.

Bollox, my last 28 years have just been a complete sham ("and a fraud, and a sham" as a wise priest once said)

Ha Ha, Well said, I think what motivates the ''Irish Birthplace Fascists'' is the bizarre notion that being born here somehow makes you wittier, whimsical, earthier and more 'authentic' than anybody else. The whole ''they're'' not ''one of us'' bull***t, ironically these same flag wavers are usually Connolly, Larkin and DeValera freaks, so work that one out.

I'm sure you sound like Paul Hogan, have a mullet and have spent your entire life watching cricket in your Collingwood shirt drinking cans of VB, after all, you are Australian, aren't you?

dd972

timthumbni wrote: »

Being a Northern Irish unionist is doubly confusing? Am I British, Irish, British-Irish or whatever? Personally I always tell people when abroad that I'm Northern Irish. That may not even be a recognised nationality but who cares./QUOTE]

Identity solved : You're an Orange Ba.....

........Joke, lads, only Joking :pac:

timthumbni

dd972 wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

Being a Northern Irish unionist is doubly confusing? Am I British, Irish, British-Irish or whatever? Personally I always tell people when abroad that I'm Northern Irish. That may not even be a recognised nationality but who cares./QUOTE]

Identity solved : You're an Orange Ba.....

........Joke, lads, only Joking :pac:

I can take a joke. lol. A few of my mates from the nationalist persuasion call me that exact same term in the bar and I in return refer to them in similar only opposite tones. Lol.

However if someone else said it in an offensive way then it goes differently. I was called something similar and threatened by a couple of republican types one night many years ago (no provocation btw, simply they heard the school if went to)and the same nationalist mates beat them out of the bar.

Likewise a few of my unionist mates and me have helped out when it was the opposite way and some loyalist knucklehead was talking rubbish about our green friends.

Tis a pity Northern Ireland is not always like that. :-)

Howard Juneau

camel jockey wrote: »

Damn, you fooled me. Shame on you. Now how do I get these damn spuds out of my arse?

A team of hungry leprechauns?

Galwayguy35

Xavi6 wrote: »

I was born in Australia to two Irish parents, moved to Dublin aged six weeks, was educated in the Irish system, have 100% Irish mannerisms...yet I'm not Irish.

Bollox, my last 28 years have just been a complete sham ("and a fraud, and a sham" as a wise priest once said)

So your a citizen of one of the best countries in the world at the moment, I'd be doing cartwheels around the place if I was you.

Galwayguy35

mango salsa wrote: »

Or DeValera?

He wasn't Irish born, a fact that actually saved his life.

clairefontaine

Going by Galway65s logic. De Valera is not Irish either.

Sam Kade

Zascar wrote: »

Moaning, begrudgery and constantly talking about the weather

I must be from somewhere else so

Galwayguy35

clairefontaine wrote: »

Going by Galway65s logic. De Valera is not Irish either.

IrishAmerican

M.Byrne

Well said 90% of the Irish population described in a few words

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

IrishAmerican

Cuban Irish Surely!

Galwayguy35

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Cuban Irish Surely!

No, he was born in New York.

clairefontaine

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No, he was born in New York.

Hi father was Cuban, mother Irish. He came back to Ireland when he was two.

It's funny how often outsiders are at the heart of revolutions. Id imagine growing up in Ireland at the time, he would not have been perceived as Irish and would have been treated as an outsider, thus making him one.

It's not straight and narrow, especially when it comes to colonies, as in Italians who were born in Ethiopia and then went home when they were infants, or British people born in colonies.

You could have been of French parents in Vietnam for example, born there and went home when you were 5 months old. It doesn't necessarily make you vietnamese.

SeanW

old hippy wrote: »

Inspired by some of the threads floating about; I was pondering on the nature of identity. It saddens me to see, on occasion, people dismissing others as not Irish because of their religion, their ancestry, where they live and what politics they gravitate towards. I have found it bemusing when a particular politically charged post might accuse a fellow Irish person of being British or self loathing because they might not buy into a particular brand of politics in Ireland.

I get the feeling that some people don't think being "Irish" or any other European nationality should mean anything in terms of that persons' identity, ideology, habits, culture or traditions. This I get as being the view of the multicultural left.

If someone wants to be Irish, identifies with the country and the people, the culture etc - why not?

I'd love that - but there are some who come here (and a few who were Irish but chose to reject their heritage in a very spectacular way) who don't want to identify with our people, our culture etc. Indeed some I think have come with the express intention not only of avoiding the above, but actively subverting it.

UCDVet wrote: »

Guy A is born in Ireland. Six months later his parents emigrate to Canada. He's raised in Canadian schools, with Canadian friends. He knows nothing of Ireland other than his parents used to live there once.

Guy B is born in India. Six months later his parents immigrate to Ireland. He loves Ireland as if it were his home. He is an Irish citizen, he pays Irish taxes, we watches Irish TV, eats Irish food, cheers at Irish sporting events.

I'd say Guy B is a lot more Irish than Guy A.

Agree 1000%. In your case, a fellow comes from India originally, but comes here because he wants to become one of us, to share in our way of life, to enjoy our culture and traditions, then that's great - I welcome him as a fellow Irishman with no further qualifications.

But what happens if Guy C comes here and hates his adopted country, isolates himself from its traditions, may actively want to subvert them, and teaches his children the same ... does he qualify as Irish?

I don't think so, and I don't care if they have Irish passports or whatever, or even if Guy C is a native Irishman that can trace his ancestry back to the Battle of Clontarf. But the problem is that if you even notice these kind of people the PC left will be all over you.

poundapunnet

SeanW wrote: »

I'd love that - but there are some who come here (and a few who were Irish but chose to reject their heritage in a very spectacular way) who don't want to identify with our people, our culture etc.

I don't think so, and I don't care if they have Irish passports or whatever, or even if Guy C is a native Irishman that can trace his ancestry back to the Battle of Clontarf. But the problem is that if you even notice these kind of people the PC left will be all over you.

who gets to decide what parts of someone's heritage they're obliged to celebrate? Sectarianism, Brit hating and banging on about the Famine is something I see no value in, it is certainly a part of the heritage of my country but I want no part of it. The GAA is as interesting to me as any other sport (ie it's not), I think it's an unfortunate reality that Irish is effectively a dead language, but it is a reality, I'm only medium fond of trad-music and vehemently dislike the Catholic Church and the IRA. Am I allowed be Irish?