**The wtf plumbing thread**

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

LAVs will continue to be tested and certified by the same guys who have been doing it all along, can't see it as a huge growth area.

The have workshops that service every aspect of them, and they are RGIs who are very competent with those vehicles.

Only a handful of them though. As it becomes compliance part of the DOE, will somebody down in Kerry bring it to one of those guys or to a local able RGI?

You'd be surprised about the number of LAV's here.

DGOBS

Wouldn't find many RGIs with much experience on them, gas fridges, Combi warm air and water units etc.

They are totally there own animal.

shane 007

Training plus nothing on them too complicated, just a lot more considerations, such as movement, vibrations, exhaust pipes, etc.
Perhaps warrants a thread of it's own in Tech.

DGOBS

You may got to the UK appliance manufacturers for product training, as the appliances are not straight forward, you will need FGas also to work effectively on the fridges.

It's a little more than just a few grommets IS1949 is not a reflective document to judge this from.

Then there is also the newer fuel cell systems to look into.

There is quiet a bit of specialized work for them, and access is a huge pain.
As I said, you'd really need a workshop.

DGOBS

I might also add, from the perspective of someone who's buddies child died in a caravan fire from a faulty gas heater, that they are far from simple.

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

You may got to the UK appliance manufacturers for product training, as the appliances are not straight forward, you will need FGas also to work effectively on the fridges.

It's a little more than just a few grommets IS1949 is not a reflective document to judge this from.

Then there is also the newer fuel cell systems to look into.

There is quiet a bit of specialized work for them, and access is a huge pain.
As I said, you'd really need a workshop.

I would say that 99% of existing domestic kitchen appliance service people do not work on the fgas side of things & would not require this certification. So I would imagine LAV's would be much the same. They would only need the RGI side of things.
The real only difference would be DIY built LAV's would have serious concerns to comply. The other differences in the main would be that the appliances are 2 & 3 way & their automatic swap over functions when the vehicle is in motion.

I do agree about the access!

DGOBS

Ok, your obviously experienced with them.
I have worked with several of the guys who do it for a living, and would not suggest going there.

Anyone into the caravan/camper vans will keep going to these guys for there needs, as they are a one stop shop with all the parts and components required for the specialized equipment to be found on these. (And they are F Gas too most of them, so no need for yet another specialist)

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

Ok, your obviously experienced with them.

Not at all but am I not allowed to have an opinion on them?

DGOBS wrote: »

Anyone into the caravan/camper vans will keep going to these guys for there needs, as they are a one stop shop with all the parts and components required for the specialized equipment to be found on these. (And they are F Gas too most of them, so no need for yet another specialist)

I absolutely agree that any specialist in this area would be the first port of call & you are correct, they will continue to be the main certifiers.
However, the powers that be have included this area of expertise in the lap of every RGI & requires them to be able to certify them.
So with correct training & knowledge, IMO it's an area that may lead to be included with RGI's across the country if they so wish to include this area in their scope.

shane 007

shane 007 wrote: »

Not at all but am I not allowed to have an opinion on them?



I absolutely agree that any specialist in this area would be the first port of call & you are correct, they will continue to be the main certifiers.
However, the powers that be have included this area of expertise in the lap of every RGI & requires them to be able to certify them.
So with correct training & knowledge, IMO it's an area that may lead to be included with RGI's across the country if they so wish to include this area in their scope.

I'd rather see qualified mechanics getting their papers to work on gas vehicles and not left in the hands of messers, insurance companies if they had any sense will demand that only trained mechanics do this type of work.

DGOBS

nothing on them too complicated

Everyones allowed opinion, but it's that one that scares me

the powers that be have included this area of expertise in the lap of every RGI & requires them to be able to certify them

Just because there is a training section on them in the DGA, and you learn how to soundness test one, is far from being able to certify them on anything more than soundness. There would be a lot more experience required in regard to the equipment.

Essentially putting gas appliances in a wooden box can have a lot of issues if incorrect.

shane 007

shane 007 wrote: »

Training plus nothing on them too complicated, just a lot more considerations, such as movement, vibrations, exhaust pipes, etc.
Perhaps warrants a thread of it's own in Tech.

I was referring to the appliances themselves when I said they are not complicated. I also said that there are a lot of other considerations to be taken into account.
Fridges are only a pilot with an additional safety device to swap over to 12v when the vehicle ignition is engaged.
The cookers are identical to domestic except they can be also run on 230v. So it is the main concern.
Gas fires are warm air so again the burner is controlled by a pilot with usual safety devices. Again, flue & ventilation is critical.

As I said, the critical components are flue arrangements, ventilation, appliance compartment seals & pipework amongst a few others.

I personally would prefer to see an decent RGI over a mechanic working on the gas side of things, especially where the critical factors are concerned, however, if said mechanic has been working on LAV's for years already, then he/she would be my first choice. If the mechanic never has, then I would pick the RGI with no LAV experience over a mechanic with no LAV experience all day everyday.

The only experience I have with LAV's is I used to own a coach built LAV for about 5 years but it was long before I was working on gas. So my experience was only on the user end & looking at Dominic's one. A few changes over the years but not enormously.

DGOBS

Not altogether simple appliances

DGOBS

Essentially, in the past I would have had a similar attitude, but after spending some time with the guy who have these workshops (and they were more than just mechanics, rarely have I come into contact with such well trained and well informed individuals in the industry) I soon found these systems were anything but simple, and required a lot of knowledge and experience to work on them correctly.

Gas fridges in the past incorrectly set etc (especially on Butane) have been known to completely soot up and produce huge CO for just a pilot (gas fridge burner pot)

Cookers essentially the same, but with demountable/stow away units, fixed crowns etc. have some features also that are different.

Combi warm air / water units, underbed units, closed flue units, ducted units, etc, etc, there is lots to learn.

And that hasn't included the flueing arrangements, pipework arrangements, power changeovers, crash sensors, cylinder bays, ventilation requirements for cabins and appliances, specific LLD terminals, underfloor terminals...on and on...

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

Not altogether simple appliances

Doesn't look that bad... What is it?

In all honesty, all unfamiliar appliances look alien at first. Equipped with training, experience & a MI, they are not not bad. Access is main hassle but if you can slide out the unit such as that Cascade water heater, I'm sure life becomes a bit easier.

DGOBS

They don't slide out, contortion it usually required.

As I said, you would require manufacturers training, as these can be reasonably complicated units to work on, an as under someones bed, the suck it an see method doesn't work that well.

Billy Bunting

Just so happens i'm working at a Truma e4000 (last pic)at the moment having to source parts from Germany because auto ignition unit seems obsolete locally, easy enough worked on though heat exchanger looks trouble to split, thankfully not having to go there.

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

the suck it an see method doesn't work that well.

No mentioned suck it & see.

shane 007 wrote: »

Equipped with training, experience & a MI, they are not not bad.

DGOBS

Just so happens i'm working at a Truma e4000 (last pic)at the moment having to source parts from Germany because auto ignition unit seems obsolete locally, easy enough worked on though heat exchanger looks trouble to split, thankfully not having to go there.

I believe your an old hand at the caravan/campers Billy, you told me in the past you've been doing them a long time.

Shane, I didn't mean you 'suck it an see', just meant that RGIs intending to work on them will need manufacturer training (as nowhere else your going to get it at the minute, unless Billy would like some visitors!)

shane 007

DGOBS wrote: »

I believe your an old hand at the caravan/campers Billy, you told me in the past you've been doing them a long time.

Shane, I didn't mean you 'suck it an see', just meant that RGIs intending to work on them will need manufacturer training (as nowhere else your going to get it at the minute, unless Billy would like some visitors!)

I think a bus could be arranged. Beautiful part of the country. Plenty of beer.
Hmmm.... I feel an outing coming on.

richieburke01

Just found how to post pictures with this f##king phone
Mad stuff

corkgsxr

Not even mind regulations some is just pure anyway anyhow.

wilser

richieburke01 wrote: »

Just found how to post pictures with this f##king phone
Mad stuff

I'm still trying to figure out how to post pictures on my phone

scudo2

wilser wrote: »

I'm still trying to figure out how to post pictures on my phone

+1 Same here.

"Samsung galaxy mini"
+ can't get them on to PC anymore so now I carry a spare camera.

The main reason is that I keep a photo of bad, shoddy work and I note it in a comment section on my reciept, I also note on it that photo has been taken & get customer to counter sign it.

I had a outdoor boiler placed over the bore hole well pipe. Boiler hydraulic ram leaked. Photo saved me.



ps. Thanks Richie for previous photos.

wilser

Think I figured it out now, was using the mobile site instead of the touch site.
Got called out to offices to balance the heating system , a builder had just finished moving some internal stud walls and left 6 rads like this

deandean

That reminds me, here's one from my phone. This is of an oil tank in the beer garden of a well-known pub in oyster-land. Reminds me of a yoga pose I tried once.

richieburke01

Customer trying to get all of the oil and dirt into the burner

richieburke01

Another customer
we service the boiler every year

JohnnieK

richieburke01 wrote: »

Another customer
we service the boiler every year

That old chestnut.

JohnnieK

richieburke01 wrote: »

Customer trying to get all of the oil and dirt into the burner

I'm really impressed with how well the oil line is protected :-)

roy rodgers

Just hope she does nt over flow any time soon.