Advice needed on external 3G/4G antenna

editorsean

I have mine roughly 2m (6 feet) apart mainly because I have one mounted on a pole previously used by a fixed wireless service I cancelled a year ago. They can placed on the same pole, although I recommend keeping at least 30cm / foot apart. Some 4G antennas come with the horizontal and vertical elements inside a single unit (e.g. some Poynting brand antennas), which have very little septation internally.

I'm surprised at the massive signal difference between the two antennas as it seems like one has a break in the cable / connection. First try aiming the one with the weak signal only connected. If it does not improve, try rotating the polarity of that antenna by 90 degrees temporarily to see whether the antenna has an issue. 3G will also work fine with a single antenna, but will lose up to half the speed as it uses the second antenna for diversity. For example, I get a fairly steady 10Mbps on Meteor 3G with both antennas connected, but this drops to 6Mbps with just one antenna connected.

I also get a massive variation in the Three speed here, hitting over 40Mbps in the day and occasionally dipping below 1Mbps around 10pm. For example, when I tried streaming YouTube in the evenings, it was dropping to 240p as shown in this post, yet had no problem playing 1080p @ 60fps over Meteor 3G once I swapped the SIM cards.

briankell74

I have Sim on the way from meteor that I ordered through the online chat and the girl i was talking to said there is no free credit with the Sim.
You seem to get a pretty good signal with the antennas 2m apart.
How far are you from the mast??

briankell74

Hi editorsean
I hit a set back last night when testing the antennas.
When either external antenna is connected to the left connector on the router I get 70% signal but when connected to the right connector on the router I get 0%. (This test is done with only one connected at a time leaving the other not connected)
The router is a D Link 921.
I have tried searching online for a fix to no avail.
any help on this one would be great??
Regards
BK

editorsean

It's quite possible the D-Link uses only the left antenna port for network searches and handshaking with the network and the second antenna port for MIMO / diversity. So it is quite likely the right antenna port is working, but requires the left antenna port to be attached before it makes use of the right port.

One way to test would be to run several speed tests early in the morning with the left antenna attached and then several more speed tests with both antenna leads attached. The test results with both antennas attached should be noticeably higher, although this may difficult to tell with Three's erratic speeds.

paddy19

I wonder is it related to the auto switch between 3g and 4g.

Manual page 20
"Choose whether the DWR-921 should only use 4G networks,
3G networks, or use Auto Mode to automatically select a
network."


Interesting that another 921 user has something like the same problem.
Unfortunately no answer.


http://superuser.com/questions/1126216/does-my-d-link-dwr-921-router-use-both-antennas-for-an-lte-connection

"I just purchased a D-Link DWR 921 router, which has a slot for a SIM card.

This is related to the internet speed/LTE reception, not the wireless (wifi).

It has two detachable antennas, and I discovered that if I leave the right antenna, it has almost the same speed (via an internet speedtest) as with both antennas;

Also, if leave only the left antenna, the speed is really slow, and the upload is almost 0Kb.

Is this a matter of firmware (no luck there, I just upgraded to the latest), is it faulty, or is it really only needing one antenna, and why?"

briankell74

I tried auto and manual and had seen that link with no reply.
I will have to do some more testing with antennas connected and not connected.
There does not seem to be any info out there regarding this.
I have posted on other forums with no replies. hopefully it is was editorsean said.
Will be testing Meteor tomorrow maybe that will tell a tale.
Thanks for the input !!!!!

briankell74

Hi
I tested this morning the 3G connection on three and with ookla I was getting 22Mps on several tests and with testmynet I was getting 11Mbps on several tests.
I then disconnected the antenna which shows no connection and the speeds were the exact same no change.
Is this because it is 3G ???
I will bring the router in to town at the weekend where there is a strong 4G signal and test it, so by right the router should not work in 4G only if there is only one sma connector working as 4G needs two antennas to work. Or if i disconnect the antenna it should drop off.
Would this be correct ??

editorsean

I'm surprised there was no change in speed in 3G with one antenna disconnected. On the other hand, 11Mbps sustained is plenty for 1080p @ 60FPS on YouTube, so hopefully it keeps near that speed in the evening time.

The 22Mbps speed Ookla reported seems to indicate that you are working on both antenna connections, even if it means the detached port is picking up a weak but usable signal with one antenna lead detached. 12Mbps to 14Mbps is typically the peak I see with a 21Mbps modem even with Ookla such as most 3G-only sticks that only have a single antenna connection.

4G will work with a single antenna connected, but the throughput is cut in half.

2016

Alter-Ego wrote: »

I am in the same situation as you, no LOS to a 3 LTE mast. I purchased a pair of these: http://www.dipol.ie/cellular-systems/gsm-3g-lte-antennas/lte/atk-log-alp-lte-mimo-2x2-antenna-800-3000mhz-10m-cables-sma-plug.html based on the advice of Editorsean on this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057675233

I pointed them in the general direction of the mast and am now getting average close to 20Mbps, when I was previously only getting 5-6mb with the modem outdoors at ground level.

How does one make a purchase on that frickin site? All they give me are their bank details.

Alter-Ego

2016 wrote: »

How does one make a purchase on that frickin site? All they give me are their bank details.

Email them with what you want, and they'll send you a PayPal invoice.

briankell74

Hi
I have been testing with meteor since last Friday.
First when I brought the DLink to town i got 89% 4G signal with a 32Mbps on Meteor and 28Mbps with three and made no difference with that one antenna connected or disconnected . So it is likely it just uses that port for the diversity.
At home pointing the external antennas at Meteor mast (direct LOS) with 3g I was getting between 2.5Mbps & 10Mbps with a very bad ping and also speed up and down frequently, with 74% signal. Here with 4G I was getting a signal of 46% (no 4G mast )with poor download speeds.
On Saturday I pointed the antennas towards town (Where there is 2 hills in the way of any mast and no LOS) and I am now getting a 70% 4G signal with an average of 15Mbps down & 16Mbps up and been consistent Never dropped below 9Mbps and Max 24Mbps (weird but Happy days). Fingers Crossed it stays..
BK

paddy19

Sounds good, long may it continue.

Just to clarify, are you getting the present good results from Three or Meteor?

briankell74

This is with Meteor. (PAYG) 30 euro for 50GB for a 180 day pass . When the 50GB runs out you just top it up by 30 euro for another 50GB online or by sending a text. When you register with Meteor you can log in to My Meteor and monitor your usage. So you can actually see when you are running out.
I will test for a few weeks and maybe they will be no need to go to Vodafone MBB after all.
BK

Vwsham

This is a great thread, I've been following it closely and have also recently purchased the huawei e3372 dongle from meteor and I got the tp-link 4g portable router from amazon. I signed up for the 50gb deal for running my enigma2 receiver. I must say it's going pretty well, although I'm limited to where I can locate my dongle. I'm looking into getting a cheapish 4g antenna and placing it on the outside wall to help boost my signal, currently in the high 3G category. 4g is available sometimes but, generally drops back to 3G. Depending on where abouts I am in the house the signal varys.
I have Vodafone at home broadband but to be honest I'm lucky if I even get 3mb download and am a bit fed up with paying through the nose for a crap service when so many others are paying the same price for fibre.
So until fibre does come out my road I might try running the house internet solely through the 3/4g network.

Vwsham

Vwsham wrote: »

This is a great thread, I've been following it closely and have also recently purchased the huawei e3372 dongle from meteor and I got the tp-link 4g portable router from amazon. I signed up for the 50gb deal for running my enigma2 receiver. I must say it's going pretty well, although I'm limited to where I can locate my dongle. I'm looking into getting a cheapish 4g antenna and placing it on the outside wall to help boost my signal, currently in the high 3G category. 4g is available sometimes but, generally drops back to 3G. Depending on where abouts I am in the house the signal varys.
I have Vodafone at home broadband but to be honest I'm lucky if I even get 3mb download and am a bit fed up with paying through the nose for a crap service when so many others are paying the same price for fibre.
So until fibre does come out my road I might try running the house internet solely through the 3/4g network.

Any suggestions/recommendations on a good antenna? Thanks.

paddy19

Less than a complimentary review on this antenna on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a--gS9uFf88

paddy19

Sorry forgot eBay ref for the reviewed antenna.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/35dBi-4G-LTE-...UAAOSw~1FUYbpV

Vwsham

Nice one, thanks. I see a lot of those for sale with mixed reviews. I'll probably chance it or something similar. Surely any kind of a booster is bound to help, here's hoping.

paddy19

No rubbish is rubbish but it might be adaptable if your into soldering per suggestion in video.
Anyway at a couple of euros you get the leads and connectors.

For verified results see.
http://m.ebay.ie/itm/380643689722?_mwBanner=1

This one is about 50 eurots.

But got excellent results.

See thread. "Considering 4G for a fixed install"

chewed

I have 2 questions on reception and speed some of you may be able to help me with. I recently got a Vodafone B3500 router (still on 2 week trial).

1. Why is that when I connect an external antenna (Poynting XPOL) to the router, I get a worse reception than if I just use the internal antennae? According to the comreg site I'm only about 3km from a Vodafone LTE mast. I know I probably don't need the external antenna, but I thought it would be still better reception with it hooked up!

2. When I use Speedtest on my phone (connected to the router) I usually get around 18ms ping and 30-40mbps down. But when I use Speedtest on my laptop I only get about 50ms and 5mbps down. I'm using Digiweb hosting on both. Any reason for this discrepancy?

ED E

1. Most likely the antenna is incorrectly aimed. The internal is omni-ish and thus orientation has a small impact, the a Poynting will work better when aimed but terribly when not.

2. I would guess you've an older a/b Wireless NIC in the laptop.

chewed

ED E wrote: »

1. Most likely the antenna is incorrectly aimed. The internal is omni-ish and thus orientation has a small impact, the a Poynting will work better when aimed but terribly when not.

2. I would guess you've an older a/b Wireless NIC in the laptop.

Thanks! yes, the laptop is quite old so maybe that's the issue! I just tried it on my wife's newer laptop and was getting similar results to my phone.
So, because I have an older wireless NIC, does that mean I get slower speeds?

I have the antenna pointing in the general direction, but I'm using the window suction pads, so it's not possible to position it in any other position.

ED E

Yep, you can upgrade it if you wish but usually laptops of that vintage are better off being retired.


If you can properly focus the antenna, don't use it as you're degrading things. You can test with it handheld for a few minutes and see how good you can get it and if its promising then you can drill the wall etc to mount it.

Discodog

So what's the general consensus. Are the all in ones better or the separate horizontal/vertical type ?

As for alignment I assume that it's best to take a bearing off a OS map & use a compass to align the antenna ?

editorsean

Unless you are in a very weak signal area (unusable / 1 bar 4G indoor coverage), I suggest going for the combined antenna, which is easier to install and can be installed using a TV antenna mount.

For pointing, first aim in the general direction of the mast, connect your device and bring up the signal reading figures in your router's menu. Then adjust the antenna a few degrees left/right to achieve the best RSRP reading. This figure is negative, e.g. -95dBm is better than -100dBm. On D-Link routers, this figure is shown as a percentage, in which case a higher percentage is better. If your device does not show anything other than a bar reading (e.g. many USB modems), then do your antenna adjustment off-peak (e.g. in the morning) and aim for the highest readings on Speedtest.net.

Discodog

Yes it's a very weak area. I get two bars with the router in my attic. It's always been fine but recently my speeds have done some weird things.



By the way I posted another thread on this but Three complained that I was using a modem on a phone sim - first time that they have ever noticed.

editorsean

To me, that looks like either severe contention or interference. Generally the uplink performance suffers far worse than the downlink performance with a weak signal, yet your upload speed is still very good.

The first thing I suggest doing is run a speed test with a network cable, such as from a laptop, then try switching off any wireless equipment/boosters such as your mast head amplifier, baby monitor, HomePlugs, etc. as it is surprising what interference some cause when they go faulty. We had mast head UHF TV amplifier cause havoc about 10 years ago that even knocked out our cordless phones until we disconnected the power to the mast head amplifier.

The next thing I suggest is try your router outside the house or outside an upstairs window (if any) for height. If your download performance is still dropping down like that, it's unlikely an antenna will offer much improvement other than a stronger signal reading. In this case, try getting a lend of another router or modem to try your SIM in to rule out a fault with your router.

Going by Three noticing, it looks like they already have the logging in place to see which SIMs are used in which devices, but probably deciding what to do next. From what I recall with Three UK several years ago, they first started blocking data access on SIMs based on IMEI # - The SIM would still work fine when placed back in a phone. Several months later, they then started blocking tethering by using Deep Packet Inspection.

Discodog

I don't think that it's local interference as the speed is back up to normal & nothing has changed in the house.

If it's contention I am thinking that an external aerial will reduce it because it will get better priority when the cell shrinks.

This last happened months ago & like now it came back to normal. So it could even be a fault on the mast.

editorsean

For any DIY enthusiasts with an unused UHF TV antenna laying around (for 4G on 800MHz / Band 20)...

I'm surprised he didn't first try wiring it to an RF plug to fit his USB modem, while just mounting the vertical element in the antenna. Then again, he got a very nice speed improvement from a TV antenna he found scrapped due to a soldering defect. :cool:

Note: This will not work with most newer UHF TV antennas from around 2013 onwards, particularly those described as 4G/LTE ready, they filter out the 800MHz band to prevent TV interference from 4G transmissions.

Bob44

B315 what kind of sim does that use? Can I use my 5s sim

editorsean

All mobile broadband routers/modems that I've come across use the mini SIM, what mobile phones used before the first iPhone hit the market.

If you still have the original SIM card holder which you got with the SIM, it may have the mini and micro size pieces that you can snap the SIM into to fit a router's mini SIM slot. See this post.

tapfit2004

Vwsham wrote: »

This is a great thread, I've been following it closely and have also recently purchased the huawei e3372 dongle from meteor and I got the tp-link 4g portable router from amazon. I signed up for the 50gb deal for running my enigma2 receiver. I must say it's going pretty well, although I'm limited to where I can locate my dongle. I'm looking into getting a cheapish 4g antenna and placing it on the outside wall to help boost my signal, currently in the high 3G category. 4g is available sometimes but, generally drops back to 3G. Depending on where abouts I am in the house the signal varys.
I have Vodafone at home broadband but to be honest I'm lucky if I even get 3mb download and am a bit fed up with paying through the nose for a crap service when so many others are paying the same price for fibre.
So until fibre does come out my road I might try running the house internet solely through the 3/4g network.

I only saw this post today.

A friend of mine had almost the exact same set up but with a 3g dongle plugged into the tp-link router. Max download speeds were 1-2 mb with the router upstairs or in his attic.

I got the e3272 stick the other day and his download speeds went up to 4-6 mb but still not great. I had a 3m belkin usb extension lead with me so I plugged it into the router and the e3272 into the other end of the lead. I put the dongle about 2 meters away from the router and did another speed test. I got 20 mb download.

The router was at one end of the house in the attic at this stage and the wifi was poor enough at the far end of the house. I got another standard tp-link router from powercity for about €26 and wired it with cat5e cable from the one in the attic and installed it downstairs. In the end I was able to get 51 mb download through the wifi on the new router downstairs.

It was some difference to be able to go from 1-2mb to 51mb on the same sim card while just spending about €65 not counting the cat5e and rj45's which I already had. Moving the dongle 2 meters away from the 4g router seemed to make the biggest difference in speed. He's checked it a few times since and still has 40-50 mb download. That's better than a lot of people can get on fixed lines around the country.

gearoid!

If you're looking for a 4G LTE external antenna or outdoor aerial, invest in something future proof, one that can work under future frequency bands, that will be used by any wireless application (GSM, WiFi, 4G/LTE).

As of today (May 2017), the following frequencies were currently being used by GSM, 3G, 4G/LTE and WiFI:

- 4G (LTE): 800, 1800 or 2600Mhz
- 3G (WCDMA): 900 or 2100Mhz
- GSM: 900Mhz
- WiFi: 2400MHz or 2.4GHz

If you have the budget, I'd highly-recommend that you buy this external antenna:
https://www.novatel.ie/trade/9dbi-cross-polarised-high-gain-outdoor-lte-panel-antenna-xpol-2

Or other similar model or make. Just take note on the frequency band the antenna can support.

The XPOL-2 model can handle (698 - 2700 MHz) WiFI, GSM, 3G, 4G/LTE application and you can use it to improve the signal quality received by your CPE (customer premise equipment).

For a fixed wireless broadband like 3G or LTE, look for directional antenna. For mobile wireless application, look for an omni-directional antenna.


If you prefer a single frequency antenna that can only work on single application, and probably costs lower, you need to know and take note what frequency your favorite operator currently works on.

For instance, you're on Three and you're looking for LTE aerial to improve your signal. Three operates on 800/1800MHz frequency band, as well as, O2 and Meteor. So, you can look for one that can operate under any of those mentioned frequencies. You can try looking for 800Mhz only or 1800Mhz only antenna. Some models can handle both.

ED E

To add to that if you're close enough to a town where there's an 1800Mhz cell available opt for that and only failing that revert to an 800Mhz cell.

We may see 400-700Mhz ER cells come up sometime in the next few years, but I wouldn't buy for that now.

brendan86

Hi guys,

So I bought the Huawei B315, Im considering putting a external antenna on it to get better reception. 5m cable doesnt seem much I like to have the modem in middle of the house in landing so house has full bars wifi in every room rather than full bars one end of house and barely 1other.

If I go for 10m antenna lead would that effect my reception much?

Also if someone could recommend a antenna for the B315 and 10m cable would appreciate it

Brendan

brendan86

Im getting average 7-10mb inside downstairs with modem.. took my phone on top of room and held it as high could reach up on areal and turned hotspot on and I was getting 55mb download speedtest !!!

ED E

You arent meant to run the antenna long distance.

If wifi coverage from where reception is good is a problem, use homeplugs. That way you'll get good speeds externally and internally.

brendan86

ED E wrote: »

You arent meant to run the antenna long distance.

If wifi coverage from where reception is good is a problem, use homeplugs. That way you'll get good speeds externally and internally.

I thought with homeplugs you lose more wifi speed and there can be a delay? Would it not be better running the antenna lead the extra 5m and placing my modem in centre of house when I have full bars everywhere ?

ED E

Nothing "loses" speed, just a device can only connect at the speed of the slowest component in the system.

So say you get 40Mb from your 4G
And 140Mb throughput on homeplugs
And 180Mb from the homeplugs wireless

You still operate at the 40Mb of the 4G.


The longer antenna may work, but it wont be optimal.

Beenlost123

I see people on boards saying to test to see if you can get 4g on the router outside your house first before considering to get an antenna or not. Wouldnt that be a false test since the antenna can help the router pick up a 4g signal better than the routers own antenna?

I was going to get both antenna and router and test it, but confused now that I see people saying to test router outside first to see if it can pick up 4g on its own first before opting for antenna.

ED E

Beenlost123 wrote: »

I see people on boards saying to test to see if you can get 4g on the router outside your house first before considering to get an antenna or not. Wouldnt that be a false test since the antenna can help the router pick up a 4g signal better than the routers own antenna?

I was going to get both antenna and router and test it, but confused now that I see people saying to test router outside first to see if it can pick up 4g on its own first before opting for antenna.

Yes they can be higher gain but not miracle workers. Remember this tech is built for handsets primarily which have micro antennae. Testing the base unit is an indication as to what is available with your LOS which is the most important factor.

briankell74

Hi
A quick update on above:
Recently Three upgraded to a 4G mast in my LOS about 9KM away and i now have 50 Mbps down and 40Mbps up rarely dropping below 20 Mbps at peak times on their AYCE plan. This all with the external antenna mentioned before.Happy Days.
Another question hoping someone has the answer?
As i do not get a public IP address on the router (I get a 10.x.x.x address) can I still use the port forward option to play the play station 4.
Or do I also need Three to open the ports (as this is the AYCE plan ) ??

ED E

You cant open the ports as your IP is a private one.

10.0.0.1 (You), 10.0.0.2, 10.0.0.3... all appear as 86.42.1.1 (Made up) so forwarding a port would take it away from other customers.

The solution is to get three to give you a public address all to yourself then forwarding will function.

briankell74

Would giving the PS4 a static IP and placing in DMZ on the router make a difference to playing on line or is this the same principal as opening the ports.
I cant see three giving me a public IP as I am using a mobile PAYG AYCE SIM in a TP Link Sim enabled router ??

ED E

They do it, just say its for a VPN connection to your office that you need.


Opening ports etc is not required for online gaming 99.9% of the time. Its an online myth purported by the PSN/XBL support teams.

M5

Hi Folks,

Has anyone had an antenna that did actually make a difference to speeds and or signal? I have tired several and most actually made the signal worse.

I am using a huawei router/4g modem. I get 1-3 bars depending on conditions and 4 the odd time. Speeds vary drastically but contention may be an issue.

Anyone used parabolic?

Really looking for a recommendation

gearoid!

M5 wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Has anyone had an antenna that did actually make a difference to speeds and or signal? I have tired several and most actually made the signal worse.

I am using a huawei router/4g modem. I get 1-3 bars depending on conditions and 4 the odd time. Speeds vary drastically but contention may be an issue.

Anyone used parabolic?

Really looking for a recommendation

You need a MIMO ANTENNA for 4G LTE. When buying an Antenna, you need to consider the frequency it supports. Network Operators in Ireland supports various frequencies, so you need make sure that the antenna you are buying currently supports the frequency that your chosen operator currently runs on.

Refer to the following frequency table for LTE:
- Three - 800/1800MHz
- O2 - 800/1800MHz
- Vodafone
- Meteor - 800/1800MHz, LTE

You should be looking something similar to this antenna:
Poynting XPOL2
https://www.novatel.ie/trade/9dbi-cross-polarised-high-gain-outdoor-lte-panel-antenna-xpol-2

The XPOL2 can operate at 698 - 2700 MHz frequencies. LTE is either on 800 or 1800MHz depending on your chosen Operator. So the XPOL 2 will be able to work on LTE and can solve your signal reception problem

jasonb

Excellent and informative thread, thanks!

I set up a Huawei B528 Router on the Vodafone network yesterday for my Sister who lives about 15km Northwest of Mullingar. I got about 5Mbps down in the house on the 3G network (reporting full bars), with no 4G signal. That's actually better than what she had!

If I bring the Router out into her front garden, I get 1 Bar 4G and about the same speeds.

I'm wondering if an antenna will help, but like a lot of other people, I'm confused by what type, cable length restrictions etc. etc.

I checked out this site:

http://siteviewer.comreg.ie/

But couldn't find the closest Vodafone 4G mast, they all seem to be Meteor and 3. Any idea what the closest Vodafone 4G mast to Ballynacarrigy (a village near her house) would be? Then at least I can try to point the router in that direction from the house to see if it would help.

After that, I have the usual questions, what antenna to get, will it increase 1bar 4G to more bars 4G etc. etc. Basically, will the money on the Antenna be money well spent?

Thanks...

Ultimanemo

I have B525 router, I used antenna more than one type, the router antenna is stronger, the only thing the antenna does is it gets you signal if you have only outside signal.
Imagine uses antenna so they must have something.

nagel

siteviewer doesn't seem to be showing voda masts in the area , I set up a fried further down the r393 towards Carrickboy at that time siteviewer showed vod 4g sites at Carrickboy, Ardagh Hill, there is another one at Forgney Just beyond the church
I cant remember if voda were on the Frewin hill site, if you look around Ballinacarrigy on the Mullingar road the antennas are pointing towards
Frewin hill and in the vilage itself some of the antenna are directed towards Ardagh if your out the Castletown road you might hit the mast at Forgney