GSG 522 Legality - Michael Healy Rae

rowa

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

You can't equate it to murder and serious crime.

It happens precisely because it's a largely unenforceable foolish law which benefits no one. That's why it's ignored, that's why 50kmph speed limits on roads fit for a lot more are ignored, every day. There was zero harm in what was televised in real life terms.

I wasn't equating what mhr did to serious crime, but it is nevertheless breaking the law and on national television , the point i was making was just because something happens everyday doesn't make it legal or acceptable. The shooting community is small and under pressure from all sides, the doj, the gardai , the anti-bloodsports brigade. we used to be able to claim we were the most law-abiding community there was, with all the disgraceful carry on with the deer poaching and rubbish like this on the television, radio and in the papers, we are rapidly becoming a bad joke.

Conmaicne Mara

IRLConor wrote: »

Yeah, but if the people who ignore stupid laws asked their TDs to get rid of the stupid laws then maybe we wouldn't have them.

Ignoring stupid laws gives the government the false impression that the laws are OK.

I recently had to call a number of people to go see a TD, out of the 30 or so people I called 1 went with me. The issue was concerned with a large chunk of these peoples income, not something unimportant like the law discussed.

Unimportant used deliberately as where is the enforcement? Where is the threat of getting caught? That is the only thing that motivates people. It is why we see so many people breaking the speed limit every time we go on the road, we know the % chance of enforcement.

It's practical versus theoretical. If it moves into the realm of the practical, something that does affect people in their life then maybe that will change. While it remains theoretical, they'll sit in watching TV.

Conmaicne Mara

rowa wrote: »

I wasn't equating what mhr did to serious crime, but it is nevertheless breaking the law and on national television , the point i was making was just because something happens everyday doesn't make it legal or acceptable. The shooting community is small and under pressure from all sides, the doj, the gardai , the anti-bloodsports brigade. we used to be able to claim we were the most law-abiding community there was, with all the disgraceful carry on with the deer poaching and rubbish like this on the television, radio and in the papers, we are rapidly becoming a bad joke.

Without enforcement, people will break laws, it's human nature. Doesn't matter the social background, industry or hobby. These things happen all the time. This is a minor molehill and not Mt Everest.

I wouldn't say there are many people involved in shooting, perhaps not range goers in fairness, who can say they haven't either seen or directly given someone with no license a shot with a gun.

Grizzly 45

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

When was the last time someone was prosecuted for what MHR did on TV?
It goes on every day of the week.

I know somone who almost was ..As thry were using a unliscensed to them firearm in a TV documentary .Nothing came of it as they were liscensed for a 22 magnum and this was a 22lr and it was in the days before this shooting on ranges only was all in favour.

Anyways,Yes it can happen but no doubt because of the "them& us" tilt to laws here mr Haely Rae TD wont be prosecuted or even enquired about.

Thats one of the major reasons I think people are so in comtempt of laws of whatever here.Half the times it isnt investigated or enforced in certain issues and half the other time because of station in life ,or knowing "somone" to get you off the hook its made ineffective.
What can you say when a member of the police force is told by a minister in a pub after hours."Would you like a pint or a transfer to the Aran islands?":(

All we have to do is look at the shower we elect,if they behave like bulls in china shops with the law and their attitude that "laws only apply to little people" Can they expect us to do any different??

Conmaicne Mara

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I know somone who almost was ..As thry were using a unliscensed to them firearm in a TV documentary .Nothing came of it as they were liscensed for a 22 magnum and this was a 22lr and it was in the days before this shooting on ranges only was all in favour.

Anyways,Yes it can happen but no doubt because of the "them& us" tilt to laws here mr Haely Rae TD wont be prosecuted or even enquired about.

Thats one of the major reasons I think people are so in comtempt of laws of whatever here.Half the times it isnt investigated or enforced in certain issues and half the other time because of station in life ,or knowing "somone" to get you off the hook its made ineffective.
What can you say when a member of the police force is told by a minister in a pub after hours."Would you like a pint or a transfer to the Aran islands?":(

All we have to do is look at the shower we elect,if they behave like bulls in china shops with the law and their attitude that "laws only apply to little people" Can they expect us to do any different??

I doubt MHR will be losing any sleep over it.

My point was about the ordinary guy or girl who went out shooting with someone they knew and got a shot of whatever gun at what ever target to start them off, for the craic, or whatever reason. In all honesty, how many Gardaí are going to be snooping about just then? And in all honesty, how many ordinary rank & file Gardaí are going to give a shyte unless (they've an eye for promotion or) someone sets up in the town square to do it? They've other sensible things to be worrying about like drug dealers, rapists and murderers.

Too much time, I think, is wasted on this kind of thing. Agonising about seeing to be seen to be adhering to the letter of the law. When we all know, it's not how the world works. One would have to be very unlucky, or very stupid to be caught out by most laws in this country.

Politics is another subject, however I think while the systems which run this country remain broken for the "customer" (us little people) then politics as we have it is actually essential, once one tangles with a civil servant with a power trip one quickly realises the value of Val Falvey TD.

dc99

Ok lads, heres the grenade.
The only reason our government (and every other democratically elected 'free thinking' country) wants gun control is the same as every other government.
I pose the question - who is likely to over throw a government by force? criminals who are focused on personal gain (and cannot gather together to a common cause and succeed) with a limited, uncontrolled set of weapons, or law abiding, right thinking citizens that are armed......what if we (law abiding, civic minded, and morally right sided) were armed without restriction? Some one earlier posted a link to a video for a time in Germany where guns were collected and destroyed. anyone ask themselves why at the end of a war, hunting rifles etc were destroyed? to de-arm the population in readiness for the 'new' regime.
This is history repeating itself, you always destroy the conquered peoples arms.....Since time began.....
otherwise they might get ideas.
Look at the US, the famous quote I hear in my mind is 'only from my cold dead hand'....how many guns do they have per capita?
Look at our lovely democracy here in Ireland. great isn't it.
We get to pick some one every so often that can promise us loads of things that will make us happy (and fail to delivery any of them, mostly blaming the preceding government and being unable to overturn their decisions...why? but thats another debate).
Then, when the winners are given, they are ALL under the whip. meaning they HAVE to vote party policy (which is set by the very top - what 5 people? Kenny and his close advisors? ) even our ministers would be subject to whip).
We, my friends think we have a free life (no i wont pay the house tax - ha! or the USC- Ha!)
I could go on, but the bottom line is we are arguing here about being able to shoot in a home made range - like a TD recently shown on tv did, - instead we should be worried about a lot more deeper things.....(why for instance did we not burn the bond holders, why are we and our children and our grand children and most likely there grand children subject to paying back a debt that is plainly not ours - and we cannot do a F'ing thing about it cause we do n-o-t h-a-v-e t--h-e p-o-w-e-r!!!!!

We live in the most corrupt country in Europe....think about that!

(Whats that??? a knock at my door? Feck I'm in trouble now)

We should be more worried about the real reason why we as law abiding citizens cant have guns.....

Witcher

dc99 wrote: »

We should be more worried about the real reason why we as law abiding citizens cant have guns.....

Except for the fact that we can...that's why we're all here on the shooting forum. The only firearm you are barred from is a centrefire pistol, everything else is open if you have a valid reason.

---

'I wan eh' isn't a valid reason but people seem to think it is. People need a bit of perspective here, less than 10 years ago you couldn't have any pistol and the bigger centrefires weren't being given out to people who actually needed them. Now you have lads with .308's and .300WM's for shooting one fox every 6 months. Lads are licencing M1 Carbines, restricted lever actions..even restricted rimfires. What more do people actually want?

I know we all want the law to be enforced more evenly across the board but what laws do people actually want removed? The system is simple nough here if you have all your ducks in a row..go and look at Tac Foley's post for the in and outs of the training procedures in the UK..tougher than here but we still have people moaning about doing a course that lasts a few hours..or minutes in some cases.

The training regime here only applies to your first firearm anyway..there are people out there who do a 30min shotgun course for their shotgun licence and a few months later go and get a centrefire rifle, strike through the compentency box and they're good to go. Where else would that be accepted?

As I said, pretty much everything is open for licencing here. Things could be worse..could be the UK..good luck to you getting a pistol or a s/a CF there. This isn't America and we'll never have their laws so forget the idea that we'll ever go into a shop, put money on the counter and walk out with a gun.

rsole1

dc99 wrote: »

Ok lads, heres the grenade.
The only reason our government (and every other democratically elected 'free thinking' country) wants gun control is the same as every other government.
I pose the question - who is likely to over throw a government by force? criminals who are focused on personal gain (and cannot gather together to a common cause and succeed) with a limited, uncontrolled set of weapons, or law abiding, right thinking citizens that are armed......what if we (law abiding, civic minded, and morally right sided) were armed without restriction? Some one earlier posted a link to a video for a time in Germany where guns were collected and destroyed. anyone ask themselves why at the end of a war, hunting rifles etc were destroyed? to de-arm the population in readiness for the 'new' regime.
This is history repeating itself, you always destroy the conquered peoples arms.....Since time began.....
otherwise they might get ideas.
Look at the US, the famous quote I hear in my mind is 'only from my cold dead hand'....how many guns do they have per capita?
Look at our lovely democracy here in Ireland. great isn't it.
We get to pick some one every so often that can promise us loads of things that will make us happy (and fail to delivery any of them, mostly blaming the preceding government and being unable to overturn their decisions...why? but thats another debate).
Then, when the winners are given, they are ALL under the whip. meaning they HAVE to vote party policy (which is set by the very top - what 5 people? Kenny and his close advisors? ) even our ministers would be subject to whip).
We, my friends think we have a free life (no i wont pay the house tax - ha! or the USC- Ha!)
I could go on, but the bottom line is we are arguing here about being able to shoot in a home made range - like a TD recently shown on tv did, - instead we should be worried about a lot more deeper things.....(why for instance did we not burn the bond holders, why are we and our children and our grand children and most likely there grand children subject to paying back a debt that is plainly not ours - and we cannot do a F'ing thing about it cause we do n-o-t h-a-v-e t--h-e p-o-w-e-r!!!!!

We live in the most corrupt country in Europe....think about that!

(Whats that??? a knock at my door? Feck I'm in trouble now)

We should be more worried about the real reason why we as law abiding citizens cant have guns.....

Thought there were 230,00 licenced firearms and another 150,000 illegal guns in Ireland, so it seems a lot of us have firearms.

dc99

You are missing my point.
I personally have a 22 Pistol and I am very much satisfied with it . it is so cheap to run...I'm not interested in a CF (purely from a cost point of view - i m happy with the bang I get and I know I could get something bigger or smaller - a . 17 hmr? in rifle format, shot gun stuff even?....) I am just saying that our democracy is based on population control. We - the legal shooting community cannot understand the restrictions why WE have to be licensed when any tomcat involved in drugs and crime can have (illegally) any fire arm, pistol, full auto that he can acquire with out looking for any permission at all and indeed shooting the thing at anyone that challenges him!)

dc99

rsole1 wrote: »

Thought there were 230,00 licenced firearms and another 150,000 illegal guns in Ireland, so it seems a lot of us have firearms.

You are quite correct...and the government know where every single one of them is....and if it ever came to it they can collect each and every one - or most of them if they want to.... or do yo disagree...apply this to the US - they can't...

tac foley

Blay wrote: »

Things could be worse..could be the UK..good luck to you getting a pistol or a s/a CF there.

Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll. Just over the border in Northern Ireland you can have just about any kind of handgun that you can think of, providing that you have the 'good reason' of handgun target shooting. And, of course, any kind of Black Powder-propelled handgun.

On the mainland we can have any kind of front-loading [non-cartridge firing BP handgun, and those odd-looking so-called long-barrelled revolvers. We are alo beginning to get semi-blowback pistols in all the well-known semi-auto handgun calibres, as well as ten-round magazine-fed LB versions of the Colt M1911 from Low Mills Gun Company.

Here in yUK I have a Ruger Old Army .44 cap and ball [see Youtube tac's guns Ruger Old Army], a .44cal replica Colt Walker, and a Ruger Super Redhawk in .357Magnum.

tac

tac foley

dc99 wrote: »

You are quite correct...and the government know where every single one of them is....and if it ever came to it they can collect each and every one - or most of them if they want to.... or do yo disagree...apply this to the US - they can't...

The legal ones, you mean. Obvioulsy, as with the case here, they haven't a clue where the ILLEGAL ones are...

tac

Witcher

tac foley wrote: »

Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll. Just over the border in Northern Ireland you can have just about any kind of handgun that you can think of, providing that you have the 'good reason' of handgun target shooting. And, of course, any kind of Black Powder-propelled handgun.

On the mainland we can have any kind of front-loading [non-cartridge firing BP handgun, and those odd-looking so-called long-barrelled revolvers. We are alo beginning to get semi-blowback pistols in all the well-known semi-auto handgun calibres, as well as ten-round magazine-fed LB versions of the Colt M1911 from Low Mills Gun Company.

Here in yUK I have a Ruger Old Army .44 cap and ball [see Youtube tac's guns Ruger Old Army], a .44cal replica Colt Walker, and a Ruger Super Redhawk in .357Magnum.

tac

I meant the British mainland and pistols comparable to those one can licence here.

tac foley

Blay wrote: »

I meant the British mainland and pistols comparable to those one can licence here.

In the RoI you can still have semi-autos and revolvers in .22 with limited magazine capacity. Here in mainland UK I can still have

1. ANY calibre black powder pistol, single-shot or revolver, and any centre-fire calibre long-barrelled revolver or .22 semi-auto with any capacity magazine. I can even have a CANNON up to 2" calibre.

2. Any calibre centre-fire rifle at all - providing it's not a semi-auto. .50cal Barrett bolt-action? Certainly, Sir, if you have someplace to shoot it...

3. Any .22 rifle or carbine and any 'military-looking' .22 semi-auto. Fifty-round magazines? That'll be £35.00, sir.....

4. Any airgun up to 12 ft pounds without any kind of a license.

5. and use, any reloading equipment I need for the calibres I shoot.

6. with a free license, up to 25kg of Black powder for my black powder firearms....

There now, it's not all THAT bad, is it?

tac

Grizzly 45

Blay wrote: »

I know we all want the law to be enforced more evenly across the board but what laws do people actually want removed?

How about.
Removal of the most stupidest ban ever on IPSC because some numpties got it into their heads its "combat training?":rolleyes:

The removal on the ban on new CF pistols being issued,or at least allowing a trade,sale, swop of existing CF handguns betwneen liscensed owners

Liscensing the MAN not the gun and extending this to five years too
Removal of idiotic restrictions on things like folding stocks on shotguns.[Trust me,once you have had one of these and used it for a day or week,you will be back very quickly to a normal stock:p] silencers and NV mountable equipment.
Have there been many assinations at night with silencers and NV mounted systems in Ireland.or ever a murder using a silencer here??

Get black powder rifles and handguns on ticket,and knock some sense into the explosives act to allow reloading at home on a small scale level.Its more dangerous storing petrol than powder these days.

Put a time limit on the DC judges ruling of refer back to the CS for a decision..
it has the potential yto be abused by the Gaurds.By simply saying they are "reconsidering" the application for an indefinate period until they retire or you give up.:eek:

In fact,remove the liscensing application from AGS in its entirity as was mooted today and yesterday by some high ranking Garda in the Irish Independant if the Garda cutbacks continued they would have to outsource both court paper serving and firearms liscensing... Been done for years on the Continent with no great loss of effectiveness in the court system..... or firearms for that matter.

That would be a good start.:)

The system is simple nough here if you have all your ducks in a row..go and look at Tac Foley's post for the in and outs of the training procedures in the UK..tougher than here but we still have people moaning about doing a course that lasts a few hours..or minutes in some cases.

PIFFLE!!!:D
try the German hunting course and test or the German sport shooters liscense for a "dead hard" course.Proably going to re do mine next year somtime.Thats a 4WEEK cram course with a 80% or better pass rate requirement in theory and practical exams.:eek:
BUT if passed allows me to buy unlimited amounts of long arms for hunting purposes,but only TWO handguns.And yes,then it's a walk into the shop ,plonk down money and walk out with purchase.Up to me to get them on my ticket then within 14 days.And I get to keep until I'm an auld and doddery 85 plus then I have to give good reason that I still need them..My grandfather amazed them on the German enquiry board for another 13 years he gave up shooting at 98!!:D

As I said, pretty much everything is open for licencing here. Things could be worse..could be the UK..good luck to you getting a pistol or a s/a CF there.

But you can get air guns off ticket,crossbows off ticket,reload,shoot IPSC,shoot BP as well and in certain awkward cases shoot but store on range obscure caliber handguns and being innovative people:D they have come up with a hybrid SA rifle that works on spring release. Something akin to Brownings new MARAL rifle.
So kind of even steven here and the UK.

tac foley

...did I mention that we have no 'restricted' rifles here?

The ludicrous situation whereby a .357 underlever carbine is somehow deemed more dangerous than a .300Win Mag does not exist in UK.

tac

Witcher

tac foley wrote: »

In the RoI you can still have semi-autos and revolvers in .22 with limited magazine capacity. Here in mainland UK I can still have

1. ANY calibre black powder pistol, single-shot or revolver, and any centre-fire calibre long-barrelled revolver or .22 semi-auto with any capacity magazine. I can even have a CANNON up to 2" calibre.

2. Any calibre centre-fire rifle at all - providing it's not a semi-auto. .50cal Barrett bolt-action? Certainly, Sir, if you have someplace to shoot it...

3. Any .22 rifle or carbine and any 'military-looking' .22 semi-auto. Fifty-round magazines? That'll be £35.00, sir.....

4. Any airgun up to 12 ft pounds without any kind of a license.

5. and use, any reloading equipment I need for the calibres I shoot.

6. with a free license, up to 25kg of Black powder for my black powder firearms....

There now, it's not all THAT bad, is it?

tac

Tac, I accept it..your laws are better, you can probably have the space cannon from Goldeneye:pac:

I merely took up the example of two firearms which 10 years ago were non existant in Ireland but are now available and said we were better off here on that score than the UK, the mainland at least.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

How about.
Removal of the most stupidest ban ever on IPSC because some numpties got it into their heads its "combat training?":rolleyes:

The removal on the ban on new CF pistols being issued,or at least allowing a trade,sale, swop of existing CF handguns betwneen liscensed owners

Liscensing the MAN not the gun and extending this to five years too
Removal of idiotic restrictions on things like folding stocks on shotguns.[Trust me,once you have had one of these and used it for a day or week,you will be back very quickly to a normal stock:p] silencers and NV mountable equipment.
Have there been many assinations at night with silencers and NV mounted systems in Ireland.or ever a murder using a silencer here??

Get black powder rifles and handguns on ticket,and knock some sense into the explosives act to allow reloading at home on a small scale level.Its more dangerous storing petrol than powder these days.

Put a time limit on the DC judges ruling of refer back to the CS for a decision..
it has the potential yto be abused by the Gaurds.By simply saying they are "reconsidering" the application for an indefinate period until they retire or you give up.:eek:

In fact,remove the liscensing application from AGS in its entirity as was mooted today and yesterday by some high ranking Garda in the Irish Independant if the Garda cutbacks continued they would have to outsource both court paper serving and firearms liscensing... Been done for years on the Continent with no great loss of effectiveness in the court system..... or firearms for that matter.

That would be a good start.:)

But as I said Grizzly, 10 years ago none of those were available either. The supers/C.supers that are issuing licences and recommending legislation atm were probably sergeants/inspectors a decade ago and were seeing their super giving lads a hard time just for a shotgun. Fast forward to today and they're being asked to give out pistols, centrefire semi autos etc. and they probably can't see rhyme nor reason for it. They're not going to support any changes which loosen up the laws in any way and they're in the DOJ's ear telling them this.

These same supers probably recommended banning IPSC, restricting folding stocks etc...they're looking at them and thinking 'didn't have that in my day'.

It's just an anti-gun country. You only have to look at After Hours after one of the shootings in the US to see that. It's consistently the same people over in AH speaking up for legitimate firearms owners..Sparks, Battlecorp, Madsl, myself and others from here. If we didn't it would just be a whole thread of people saying; 'Why would you need a gun? Ban them all', 'Why would you want a pistol?', 'I'm glad firearms are illegal in Ireland' etc. The Sun even ran an article after Michael Healy Rae's show saying he was sporting an 'assault rifle'.

It's a small nation and things like IPSC tend to get noticed and the public just don't care for it because it confuses them and they don't have any interest in it themselves so banning it is fine. It has just become part of the culture here that people are hostile to firearms, even airsoft gets a kicking now and again by people who find it distasteful, the sole reason being how the guns look, not because it's dangerous or anything.

We have to be realistic about the changes we ask for, not because what we ask for (reloading, air rifles etc.) are unsafe or anything but because the public and the media would be up in arms about it. Things like IPSC and CF pistols are probably gone forever and the one man one licence thing is unlikely as well. Best we could hope for down the road is being allowed to hold an air rifle without a licence if you already have a licence for an actual firearm imo. I'd love to have all those things listed but it's just not going to go that way realistically speaking.

We're expect a nation of 4m to change their opinions for a few thousand and it's just not going to happen, the community doesn't have the strength or the public support.

I wasn't directing all that at you Grizzly, it's just me giving a sermon.

PIFFLE!!!:D
try the German hunting course and test or the German sport shooters liscense for a "dead hard" course.Proably going to re do mine next year somtime.Thats a 4WEEK cram course with a 80% or better pass rate requirement in theory and practical exams.:eek:

That pretty much confirms what I was saying Grizzly..there is essentially no training here compared to elsewhere. The NRA courses are about the furthest you can go here training wise outside of the DF.

But you can get air guns off ticket,crossbows off ticket,reload,shoot IPSC,shoot BP as well and in certain awkward cases shoot but store on range obscure caliber handguns and being innovative people:D they have come up with a hybrid SA rifle that works on spring release. Something akin to Brownings new MARAL rifle.
So kind of even steven here and the UK.

As I said to Tac, I was taking a small part of our laws and comparing them. I wasn't saying our laws are better.

Grizzly 45

But as I said Grizzly, 10 years ago none of those were available either. The supers/C.supers that are issuing licences and recommending legislation atm were probably sergeants/inspectors a decade ago and were seeing their super giving lads a hard time just for a shotgun. Fast forward to today and they're being asked to give out pistols, centrefire semi autos etc. and they probably can't see rhyme nor reason for it. They're not going to support any changes which loosen up the laws in any way and they're in the DOJ's ear telling them this.

TBH a decade ago it was proably alot easier to get a permit for a shotgun or rifle than it is today I got mine when I was 16 and the rifle at18.Who would do that today in AGS??That was 31 years ago too.

Well the minister and the cheif comisioner dont exactly see eye to eye ,and TBH they have had to swallow a few changes whether they like it or not to become a more modern police force.Everyone else in the EU lets their civillian admin deal with liscensing.Why this cult of secrecy within AGS on this matter,or on everything else too??Do we really need AGS personel running the sweet shop in Templemore?Atypical story or not.
Or will positively NOT allow the Garda Ombudsman access except via a Garda of seinor rankto the PULSE system?
Funny that they had no major security concerns to An Post collecting the liscense fees when it was us gunowners who were more concerned on this.

These same supers probably recommended banning IPSC, restricting folding stocks etc...they're looking at them and thinking 'didn't have that in my day'.

Like anything firearms technology is in a ever changing flux.IF your job is to deal with that aspect and you have that kind of attitude you should not be in that position.Could you imagine going to your GP and he produces a jar of leeches and bleeds you for your headache ??When asked about anti biotics, he says" Pray Sir,I hath used leeches and hold no truck with such modern work of the devil."How quick would you be to the medical counsel to complain of this guys methods??

It's just an anti-gun country. You only have to look at After Hours after one of the shootings in the US to see that. It's consistently the same people over in AH speaking up for legitimate firearms owners..Sparks, Battlecorp, Madsl, myself and others from here. If we didn't it would just be a whole thread of people saying; 'Why would you need a gun? Ban them all', 'Why would you want a pistol?', 'I'm glad firearms are illegal in Ireland' etc. The Sun even ran an article after Michael Healy Rae's show saying he was sporting an 'assault rifle'.

This is an open forum chat group like all the rest of social media in the internet where pretty much every muppett and gobdaw can add their 2cents whether factually correct or not.I would not take what is said on internet chat groups as any sort of pool of Irish opinion.Yesterday we had a bunch calling for a hanging ,drawing and quartering of supposedly a bunch of teens for burning a horse to death on journal.ie. Does that mean we have a blood thirsty mob in Dublin willing to do so?? As the media whores [apt term] prostitute them selves to any cause that gets their paper and ink sold or hits on their websites,of course they are going to spout fantastical bulsht that the uninformed are going to eat.As such Ireland is not anti gun,just gravely misinformed ,and it is surprising how many people once they see the other side are sympathetic to our side of the story too.

It's a small nation and things like IPSC tend to get noticed and the public just don't care for it because it confuses them and they don't have any interest in it themselves so banning it is fine. It has just become part of the culture here that people are hostile to firearms, even airsoft gets a kicking now and again by people who find it distasteful, the sole reason being how the guns look, not because it's dangerous or anything.

Again misinformation and indifference doesnt add up to being anti gun.
If we were so antigun there would be something like a major gun control group here.Apart from the anti fieldsport idiots who are looking for some point of traction and will use anything to try and foist their agenda on the Irish people,there is nothing. Its a non issue for most Irish people.

We have to be realistic about the changes we ask for, not because what we ask for (reloading, air rifles etc.) are unsafe or anything but because the public and the media would be up in arms about it. Things like IPSC and CF pistols are probably gone forever and the one man one licence thing is unlikely as well. Best we could hope for down the road is being allowed to hold an air rifle without a licence if you already have a licence for an actual firearm imo. I'd love to have all those things listed but it's just not going to go that way realistically speaking.

Not quite,IPSC and the pistol issue is a ministerial signature to sort out,whats not to say one day there might be a pro gun minister who changes that...Longgg shot I know,but stranger things have happened
.
The Irish public is NEVER "up in arms" about anything.If we cant be arsed doing somthing like the financial runiation of our country by corrupt banksters and politicans,or the oppression of the tax payer by unjust burdens to pay for keeping the status quo
.Do you honestly think they will be on the streets about changing our gun liscensing laws??? That's why the ruling class here can rule us ,they KNOW we wont organise,cant organise,or do anything coherent with our Me fein attitudes.Divide and conquer and let them" talk to Joe"[The national Irish pressure relif valve] and the circus moves on.:rolleyes:

I remember our pals John Fitzgerald and Bernie Wright on announcement years ago of the extension to bigger calibre deer rifles predicting" blood baths on Irish streets from maniacs.":rolleyes:Or some such drivel on 2FM.
[Only maniacs with bloodbaths on the streets were their fruit loop groups trying to get attention to ban foxhunting]. Nothing happened,and 12 years on nothing has happened.

It is not actually a public concern,it is a state security concern,always has been always will be.There is this perpetual undercurrent of fear/concern emnating from the govt/ AGS on these issues that somehow we are or will be planning an overthrow of the state.Ask yourself then why DID they ban a sport here when any law enforcement who deals with firearms training will tell them IPSC is not combat training in any shape or form ,and is actually deadly dangerous to try and use it in that situation.So much so that many PD's in the US prohibit their officers from partaking in those matches??

Why does the Garda handbook/guide,refer to handguns as "Especially dangerous and not suitable for the general public to own."At least the copy of the one in the Limerick libary in the 1990s said this,maybe they have changed it...Who knows??"

Ask yourself then ,if a state fears a section of the pouplation so much,what has the state got to hide??

We're expect a nation of 4m to change their opinions for a few thousand and it's just not going to happen, the community doesn't have the strength or the public support.

250,000 give or take.Not expecting them to change for anything,but then again the Irish state has changed its tack for a Hell of a lot of lesser groups in the last two decades as well.:rolleyes: What would be nice is streamlining the legislation to bring it into EU norm and that the law is applied fairly and evenly,despite how disagreeable to some peoples personal opinion in power.Their job is to see do the people who apply fit the conditions of holding a liscense,not decide that they can arbitarily apply their power for their personal dislikes.They are there to uphold the law good bad or indifferent,not decide what their interpertation is of it.

I wasn't directing all that at you Grizzly, it's just me giving a sermon.

I know,and its good that much debate ensures before opinions are formed.:D
And if certain parties think this is me off "Garda bashing" for the Hell of it.
It isnt,i tis pointing out some major flaws of policy or agenda in the top ranks that is tarring a very decent by and large bunch of people trying to do their job but are getting the warm and brown stuff rolling downhill.

That pretty much confirms what I was saying Grizzly..there is essentially no training here compared to elsewhere. The NRA courses are about the furthest you can go here training wise outside of the DF.

And absolutely nothing wrong with those NRA courses either,and in the US you can go a heck of a lot further.Up to" law enforcement instructor"on SMG shotgun ,rifle and handgun [As a civvie too.:P]
The German course is absolute overkill for an Irish situation,as a lot of it would be irrevelant to the way we hunt,and is built into German hunting traditions,their unique vocabulary of the animals[Hunters Latin they call it],and botany,biology,music,etc etc.It is done this way as to be a hunter in Germany its an expensive lifestyle choice,not a hobby,and they want to keep the maybes out of the system too.
TBH the NRA saftey courses and maybe abit of how to butcher out your game properly,would be fine for Ireland.

tac foley

Blay wrote: »

Tac, I accept it..your laws are better, you can probably have the space cannon from Goldeneye:pac:

I merely took up the example of two firearms which 10 years ago were non existant in Ireland but are now available and said we were better off here on that score than the UK, the mainland at least.As I said to Tac, I was taking a small part of our laws and comparing them. I wasn't saying our laws are better.

Good post, Blay, with lots of sense in it. You'll never know how much I resent not being able to have a proper handgun that fire cartridges that actually LOOKS like a proper handgun that fires cartridges here on the mainland, and how much I envy you what you still have, warts and all.

Your laws are different, that's true, and made with the best of intentions, however ill-informed they might have been.

Anyhow, I have to get into the shed now, and load up some hyper-velocity rounds for that space cannon....:)

tac

robertpatterson

.

tac foley

Not quite Belgium.

tac

Amonisis

Well that escalated quickly!

Dian Cecht

Just heard, haven't seen myself, that there is a report in "The Sun" (I know toilet paper publication ) that his .22 has been placed in a gun dealers pending "ballistic testing" & there are queries over his licence :eek:

garv123

Maybe they do read boards..

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/article5340944.ece

He's had to hand it in to an RFD for inspection of its calibre and is it the correct licence..

Witcher

He also insisted the weapon he is shown firing in the
programme is a Walther G22 semi-automatic sports rifle.

Doesn't look good for him:pac:

Sparks

f the original documentation doesn’t match the weapon’s proper calibre, the publicity-loving politician will have to apply for a new one.

Words fail me.

garv123

Sparks wrote: »

Words fail me.

The sun always does have well written articles

Cass

Forgetting for a moment the "possession of an unlicensed firearm", onus of firearm holder to ensure the license is correct, assault rifle look a like, etc.

Could this be the first test case? Regarding barrel length, etc.

tac foley

Ah well now, even Stevie Wonder could tell you that what it surely is NOT is a Walther G22...

tac

Sparks

garv123 wrote: »

The sun always does have well written articles

It wasn't so much the standard of english I was talking about, it was the way my brain tried to crawl out of my ears to get away from the idea that the Gardai would go "Oh, you've gotten your hands on a Class A firearm with an unrestricted licence, that's okay, just apply for the right kind of licence and we'll say no more about it" :pac: