Ucd fining students

war2k10

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/education/ucd-students-fined-300-letting-2840155

I did not know you were not allowed to have people stay over ?

haro124

war2k10 wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/education/ucd-students-fined-300-letting-2840155

I did not know you were not allowed to have people stay over ?

You are aslong as you give their name to the residences office during the day

matTNT

haro124 wrote: »

You are aslong as you give their name to the residences office during the day

There's also a facility on SISweb to do it.

hungry hippo 4

The pic is hilarious! Sad faces feel sorry for us! Hahaha. Why didn't he just go stay with the brother in the first place!?

SparkySpitfire

Noway in hell would I stay in student accommodation and I am so grateful that I don't have to.

http://www.ucdsu.ie/news/article/6018/ResRightsNow/

UCD in general pisses me off with their fines. They have a fine for everything! Ridiculous in my opinion.

Maldesu

war2k10 wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/education/ucd-students-fined-300-letting-2840155

I did not know you were not allowed to have people stay over ?

Its in the residential rules. All visitors gone by 23:30 or they are considered a guest. Though same rules state the the fine should be €100, not €300.

[Jackass]

"Staying over"

massive_midget

It's not that hard, don't break the rules and you won't get fined?

Also I know the two girls and their whole story is an entire lie, that is not what happened at all, the guy had repeatedly jumped the gate which is so stupid and dangerous.

If you're old and mature enough to not live at home, be old and mature enough to follow rules like in the real world where you aren't spoon fed.

SparkySpitfire

Actually, the rules in the "real world" are less restrictive than res rules. And I'd love to see a "real world" landlord that walks around his apartment complex with mounted cameras on his shoulders.

massive_midget

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Actually, the rules in the "real world" are less restrictive than res rules. And I'd love to see a "real world" landlord that walks around his apartment complex with mounted cameras on his shoulders.

You're being totally unreasonable. There has to be rules or there would be chaos. You want someone to stay over? Sign them in, no problem. Don't sign them in and they can't come back with you, it's as simple as that. You can't just have people walking in and out as they please, it wouldn't be fair on people who didn't go out or want a good nights sleep. That's being considerate, not restrictive.

Also, the cameras are not "mounted to shoulders" hahaha. The camera is a tiny thing clipped to the RAs jacket, and believe it or not, it's not because res want to spy on people, it's because drunk people are absolute idiots who think they can say what they want and get away with it. The cameras aren't used in bedrooms or bathrooms and when the camera is on, security and the RAs both say the camera is on. This is in the licence to reside so if you don't like it, don't live on campus.

This drives me insane, if your housemates had a party and destroyed the sitting room and you were about to be charged, you'd be damn glad of camera evidence showing it wasn't you. Rules are everywhere and if you don't like them then you need to either grow up or get over it and go somewhere else.

SparkySpitfire

massive_midget wrote: »

You're being totally unreasonable. There has to be rules or there would be chaos. You want someone to stay over? Sign them in, no problem. Don't sign them in and they can't come back with you, it's as simple as that. You can't just have people walking in and out as they please, it wouldn't be fair on people who didn't go out or want a good nights sleep. That's being considerate, not restrictive.

Also, the cameras are not "mounted to shoulders" hahaha. The camera is a tiny thing clipped to the RAs jacket, and believe it or not, it's not because res want to spy on people, it's because drunk people are absolute idiots who think they can say what they want and get away with it. The cameras aren't used in bedrooms or bathrooms and when the camera is on, security and the RAs both say the camera is on. This is in the licence to reside so if you don't like it, don't live on campus.

This drives me insane, if your housemates had a party and destroyed the sitting room and you were about to be charged, you'd be damn glad of camera evidence showing it wasn't you. Rules are everywhere and if you don't like them then you need to either grow up or get over it and go somewhere else.

Please explain why if you live off campus, the whole place is not in total chaos in the absence of these "totally necessary rules".
I have friends that live in apartment blocks around the city where there would be plenty of other students, yet somehow they don't descend into anarchy each night?

It sounds like creche. People in the real world take responsibility to abide by the ACTUAL necessary rules, and when they break them, they're kicked out. There's no need for stupid restrictions that give people a slap on the wrist and a fine when they're broken.

If you want students to act grown up, give them the same rules that everyone else living in flats/shared accommodation live by.

massive_midget

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Please explain why if you live off campus, the whole place is not in total chaos in the absence of these "totally necessary rules".
I have friends that live in apartment blocks around the city where there would be plenty of other students, yet somehow they don't descend into anarchy each night?

It sounds like creche. People in the real world take responsibility to abide by the ACTUAL necessary rules, and when they break them, they're kicked out. There's no need for stupid restrictions that give people a slap on the wrist and a fine when they're broken.

If you want students to act grown up, give them the same rules that everyone else living in flats/shared accommodation live by.

Because your friends (maybe) are not idiots. Have you ever lived on campus like that you're saying the place doesn't descend into anarchy? You clearly have never been in Roebuck Castle when theres 12 people absolutely off their faces drunk smashing glass bottles off the walls, all covered in blood, which actually happened.

You're being really naive. I have no doubt that most people will behave but theres always going to be people who won't, so unfortunately the rules have to go by their behaviour, which is lock down.

"People in the real world take responsibility to abide by the ACTUAL necessary rules"
Yes, this does not include an absolute ton of people living on campus.

"There's no need for stupid restrictions that give people a slap on the wrist and a fine when they're broken."
As regards your comment about a slap on the wrist and a fine.. can you imagine what uproar there would be if someone was kicked off campus? Also, I don't know if you've ever lived in a house that isn't your own, but anything that gets broken you pay for. They don't kick you out of the house immediately.

SparkySpitfire

massive_midget wrote: »

Because your friends (maybe) are not idiots. Have you ever lived on campus like that you're saying the place doesn't descend into anarchy? You clearly have never been in Roebuck Castle when theres 12 people absolutely off their faces drunk smashing glass bottles off the walls, all covered in blood, which actually happened.

You're being really naive. I have no doubt that most people will behave but theres always going to be people who won't, so unfortunately the rules have to go by their behaviour, which is lock down.

No, and I thank the powers that be that I haven't. See, if these people were acting like spas in a normal apartment block, they'd most likely have the gardai called on them and if the behaviour continued, the eviction process would start.

I'm not being naive, but there is no benefit in having restrictions that wouldn't exist in a real world setting to people living on campus. For one, the people who don't make trouble are hassled by rules that are in place IN CASE troublemakers kick up a storm. Secondly, the people that do go mad know that the worst can happen is a fine. These restrictions are really no way to prepare these people for the real world.

As regards your comment about a slap on the wrist and a fine.. can you imagine what uproar there would be if someone was kicked off campus?

There wouldn't be uproar if the rules reflected real life circumstances, and they knew that bad behaviour will eventually result in eviction, there's no need to cushion the fall with fines and tutting.

Also, I don't know if you've ever lived in a house that isn't your own, but anything that gets broken you pay for. They don't kick you out of the house immediately.

Yes, that's the norm in rented accommodation everywhere, you break it, you bought it - what of it? No they don't, but repeated behaviour will incur eviction.

If you think I'm sticking up for people that wreck the place, I'm not. I just think that treating people who live on campus like they're in a creche of some sort is redundant and unnecessary.

Vorophobe

I think there's always been big problems with alcohol + UCD residences, and they do need to be very firm when dealing with students that go out of control.

Finding a reasonable balance between privacy and fairness when enforcing campus rules is what needs to be worked on

Domenkidu

To be honest I think that the UCD guest system is quite fair and reasonable. There is no mention in the article of whether the girls are on a single-gender hall, but if they are I think the university has every right to fine them for having an unapproved male guest in their room. Also I would imagine that one of the main reasons for having a guest sign-in system is fire regulations. In the event of a fire at night, the University would need to know that everyone is out of the hall and safe. One reason this is a university specific issue is that, as far as I know, the University has legal responsibility for the safety of people on campus, while in a private residence it would be the tenant/owner.

I'm not saying I don't agree with student tenants having the same expectations as other private tenants in terms of expectation of privacy etc., but in terms of the guest rules, I think UCD's are very reasonable and if the girls in the article had followed them, they wouldn't have any cause for complaint.

Incidentally, the standard of writing in the article leaves a lot to be desired, "the rooms being unclean" for example - it's "the rooms being dirty" or even "the rooms not being clean", or even "the rooms being untidy".

Raphael

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

No, and I thank the powers that be that I haven't. See, if these people were acting like spas in a normal apartment block, they'd most likely have the gardai called on them and if the behaviour continued, the eviction process would start.

Couple things you seem to not know, that effect your concerns.

Firstly, the gardai can't actually do much at all about noise complaints. If those people were acting like spas in a normal block, their neighbours would most likely just have to deal with it, unless they had their landlords details to complain to. Additionally, due to the way tenancy law works in Ireland it's nearly impossible to evict a problem tenant. The process can take months if they dig their heels in.

Because of that, private landlords can, and do, turn away the kind of tenants they expect to be problematic. On campus accommodation does not, it takes all comers. Meaning they will end up with problematic tenants that couldn't get a private tenancy.

Try comparing on campus accommodation to a hotel instead of a private rental. This also has the 'you'll show up and we'll give you a place without trying to judge you first, but if you take the mick your out on your ear' aspects.

The rules are strict, but they're all detailed in the license to reside that you sign before you take a room, so if you don't like them, you can just not live on campus, or take your chances with breaking them.

Sure they're very strict rules, but they're the price you pay for being able to live on the campus. It makes your commute easy, puts you in a convenient social environment, and it means not having to househunt. All things considered, it's not a bad price to pay.

Sulla Felix

Things have evidently changed in the ten years since I was on campus. None of this was in place, we regularly had people stay over. In fact, from the sounds of it, the res' are now gated which wasn't even the case. Can't say I remember any serious anarchy resulting from the lack of it either.:rolleyes:

Raphael

It's really only in the last 5 that they've gotten stricter (since '08, last year I lived on campus), but it was starting to get a little out of hand when I was there. While there's an argument that they overreacted, there was a problem they were treating. And in fairness, they did also bring in signing a guest over around the same time they started cracking down, so it's possible to have someone stay over without it being in breach of the license. Which is nice.

biomed32

Having lived on and off campus, I understand where the university are coming from.

I do not see any issue with having to sign in a guest that may stay the night, as has been mentioned there are fire safety concerns, the college accommodation team must know how many people are in accommodation in the event of a fire so that can be communicated to firefighters who will inevitably put their lives on the line to rescue someone who might or might not be there.

Students talk about being skint all the time. I know that as I was in that situation. I worked all through my undergraduate degree and paid my way. It was rare for me to have a weekend off work and study. Students and in particular undergraduate do get a bad rap for drinking but generally there is a lot of it going on in college. Is it so bad that a college wants to protect their property. Fining people is a way to do this as it hits cash strapped students with their pockets rather then slapping them on their wrists.

The article has been raised as questionable. I have to ask, is it ethical for students to "appear to lie" to further what they feel is right. I don't believe it is ethical and is the wrong way to further your cause, in the end it just makes you look worse then that your fighting against.

SparkySpitfire

Raphael wrote: »

Couple things you seem to not know, that effect your concerns.

Firstly, the gardai can't actually do much at all about noise complaints. If those people were acting like spas in a normal block, their neighbours would most likely just have to deal with it, unless they had their landlords details to complain to. Additionally, due to the way tenancy law works in Ireland it's nearly impossible to evict a problem tenant. The process can take months if they dig their heels in.

Yeah they can, it's called "disturbance of the peace", they were called on a party I was at before. And I do know that from browsing the Accommodation forum but it still can be done (albeit eventually).

Because of that, private landlords can, and do, turn away the kind of tenants they expect to be problematic. On campus accommodation does not, it takes all comers. Meaning they will end up with problematic tenants that couldn't get a private tenancy.

That is true, I didn't consider that!

The rules are strict, but they're all detailed in the license to reside that you sign before you take a room, so if you don't like them, you can just not live on campus, or take your chances with breaking them.

Well yeah, obviously but I cannot fathom why anyone would want to live on campus given the rules if they had another viable alternative.

Raphael

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Yeah they can, it's called "disturbance of the peace", they were called on a party I was at before.

No, no they can't. They just show up and say that, and people comply because a Guard just said that to them. Basically they're just facilitating between you and your neighbours, in case people get thick.

Noise pollution gets handled through the district court, and requires a number of events. District Court judgements can then be enforced by the Guards.

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Well yeah, obviously but I cannot fathom why anyone would want to live on campus given the rules if they had another viable alternative.

Convenience. Both in terms of not having to house hunt, and being able to get out of bed 10 minutes before your lectures and not being late.

SparkySpitfire

Raphael wrote: »

No, no they can't. They just show up and say that, and people comply because a Guard just said that to them. Basically they're just facilitating between you and your neighbours, in case people get thick.

Noise pollution gets handled through the district court, and requires a number of events. District Court judgements can then be enforced by the Guards.


Convenience. Both in terms of not having to house hunt, and being able to get out of bed 10 minutes before your lectures and not being late.

Well then get their asses to court! Just because it's a lengthy and difficult process to sort out ANY troublesome person in Ireland, e.g. evictions, harrassment doesn't mean that the route to solving it should be ignored.


There's still other places to live that are convenient to college, and if someone had the choice between there and campus accommodation, they'd be mad in my mind to choose campus. I only know people who live there because they had to.

Raphael

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Well then get their asses to court! Just because it's a lengthy and difficult process to sort out ANY troublesome person in Ireland, e.g. evictions, harrassment doesn't mean that the route to solving it should be ignored.

It does if the amount of effort/cost involved isn't going to be worth it. Risk vs Reward and all that.

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

There's still other places to live that are convenient to college, and if someone had the choice between there and campus accommodation, they'd be mad in my mind to choose campus. I only know people who live there because they had to.

First time I lived on campus, I was in first year, didn't know enough people to go in with, and didn't know Dublin well. Living on campus made things easier. Second time I was in third year, was on a J1 so I couldn't househunt, and it took the pressure off. Now you know someone. Hi.

In all seriousness, though, a lot of people do end up having to, but a lot of people go for it because it's easy. And bad rules and all, I'd still recommend it to a first year.

SparkySpitfire

Raphael wrote: »

It does if the amount of effort/cost involved isn't going to be worth it. Risk vs Reward and all that.



First time I lived on campus, I was in first year, didn't know enough people to go in with, and didn't know Dublin well. Living on campus made things easier. Second time I was in third year, was on a J1 so I couldn't househunt, and it took the pressure off. Now you know someone. Hi.

In all seriousness, though, a lot of people do end up having to, but a lot of people go for it because it's easy. And bad rules and all, I'd still recommend it to a first year.

Well if overall the convenience trumps the restrictions for you then fair enough, it's not for everyone though and I think we can agree on that.

massive_midget

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Well if overall the convenience trumps the restrictions for you then fair enough, it's not for everyone though and I think we can agree on that.

I don't mean to be rude here but you obviously don't understand how hard accommodation is to find, and accommodation is in absolute huge demand.

I personally think the bottom line here is that if you think the rules are over the top, that's fine so be it, don't move Onto campus. You can't put your name on the waiting list, pay your money an sign your licence, move in and then decide it isn't fair, you should have considered everything beforehand.

If you don't want to abide by the rules then don't live on campus, the more people who don't apply then maybe Res will have a look at their policies, but people will NEVER stop wanting to live on campus, demand will always be ginormous and the rules will hold up.

SparkySpitfire

massive_midget wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude here but you obviously don't understand how hard accommodation is to find, and accommodation is in absolute huge demand.

I personally think the bottom line here is that if you think the rules are over the top, that's fine so be it, don't move Onto campus. You can't put your name on the waiting list, pay your money an sign your licence, move in and then decide it isn't fair, you should have considered everything beforehand.

If you don't want to abide by the rules then don't live on campus, the more people who don't apply then maybe Res will have a look at their policies, but people will NEVER stop wanting to live on campus, demand will always be ginormous and the rules will hold up.

Everyone knows it's hard to find, especially closer to campus than a 30 minute bus ride anyway.

Yeah but what relevance does that have? I'm giving out about the rules but for one second I'd never consider living on campus unless I had absolutely no other alternative! And in that case, I'd have no choice but to follow the rules and maybe campaign against them if I was really put out, but not break them in the meantime. Basically you're describing on campus accommodation as a necessary evil, which it sorta is depending on your outlook, but it doesn't mean it's not open to criticism.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

What if you pull? What then?

massive_midget

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Everyone knows it's hard to find, especially closer to campus than a 30 minute bus ride anyway.

Yeah but what relevance does that have? I'm giving out about the rules but for one second I'd never consider living on campus unless I had absolutely no other alternative! And in that case, I'd have no choice but to follow the rules and maybe campaign against them if I was really put out, but not break them in the meantime. Basically you're describing on campus accommodation as a necessary evil, which it sorta is depending on your outlook, but it doesn't mean it's not open to criticism.

My point is on campus accommodation is extremely hard to get, the priority list opens in March so it's not like it's the last chance for these people. They have a choice, they know what campus is like. You're not gonna go to, say, Coppers and pay €12 in and then complain that it's too full and you don't like the music and the drink is expensive because you already knew that and you chose it so tough sh!t

Mr.Saturn

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

What if you pull? What then?

Makes the 'my place or yours?' a bit more straightforward, if nothing else.

SparkySpitfire

massive_midget wrote: »

My point is on campus accommodation is extremely hard to get, the priority list opens in March so it's not like it's the last chance for these people. They have a choice, they know what campus is like. You're not gonna go to, say, Coppers and pay €12 in and then complain that it's too full and you don't like the music and the drink is expensive because you already knew that and you chose it so tough sh!t

Yeah, its not the last chance but that doesn't mean it's everyone's first choice. Like Raphael said, some people choose it because they might be new to Dublin and it's way easier than looking for themselves, or they've no time to look anywhere else, or they can't afford a flat on their own and don't know anybody to share with. There's a multitude of reasons. And I'm sure there's definitely people that WANT to live there too.

And I already addressed the, "they know what they're getting themselves into" point and I still don't see it's relevance, so I don't get why you're still arguing...

goose2005

haro124 wrote: »

You are aslong as you give their name to the residences office during the day

Just like in East Germany (where librocop was also trained)