Help with dog pulling on lead

Jjjjjjjbarry

Hello everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone can advise me on this problem with my dog pulling on the lead.

He has been pulling for years. I've tried every anti pull lead out there. If he pulls and I stop he will also stop. When I call him back he comes back. So off we go again and he just wanders off pulling ahead again.

I'm so frustrated and love walking him. It's like he knows it's wrong to pull and sometimes if he pulls too hard he'll slow down as he knows I'll stop or pull him back but every single time he pulls ahead again.

I just can't get him to walk beside me.

The training way is supposed to be you stop when he pulls, call him back and praise when he does, then walk again and praise when he stays beside you?

In this case he just will not stay beside me. It takes me an hour to walk a distance that should take ten minutes! I'm tempted to just use a head collar and at least limit the pulling power and accept he won't walk beside me. Is it possible he will never do it or should I persist?

DBB

What anti-pull devices have you used?

Jjjjjjjbarry

Halti head collar, harness where the straps go under the legs and just tighten there and other variations of those and even one that when the dog pulls it whistles. I have avoided all the non ethical ones like choke chains.

DBB

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Halti head collar, harness where the straps go under the legs and just tighten there and other variations of those and even one that when the dog pulls it whistles. I have avoided all the non ethical ones like choke chains.

Good for you, with a dog who's so determined to pull, gear like choke chains could really damage him.
There are two bits of gear that always rise to the top of the suggestion list in threads like this.
One is a front-connection harness: instead of allowing the dog lean into it like a conventional collar or harness does, the front-connection harness uses simple physics... It's very hard for a dog to pull against something that's in front of him!
There are a few different brands, but having tried them all, my firm favourite is the Premier Easy-Walk Harness, which you'll get at its cheapest, I think, from www.friendsoffido.co.uk
It's really important to fit it properly, and to keep the lead at a length that the dog can walk comfortably beside you but not surge ahead, but not so short that you're applying pressure at every step: let the harness do the work rather than you hanging out of him, or chucking him.
The second bit of gear often recommended by owners of inveterate pullers is a headcollar, called the Dogmatic. Unlike the harness, you must put a bit of time into acclimatising him to wearing a headcollar happily, which you may already have done with a Halti headcollar.
I know people who swear by both, and a small number who still didn't stop their dog pulling, but did at least get a huge improvement, so that they could then effectively reinforce nice heeling behaviour... It doesn't sound like you're getting many opportunities to do this right now!

gizmo555

DBB wrote: »

There are a few different brands, but having tried them all, my firm favourite is the Premier Easy-Walk Harness . . .

+1

I followed a previous recommendation on this forum from DBB and got this harness for my 25kg dog which only I or my wife could walk, because she pulled like a train.

Now, my 10 year old daughter regularly walks her, which was previously impossible for her to manage.

Inexile

would also recommend a front leading harness. I use the sensible which can be got from dog training Ireland in Dublin.

not cheap at almost €30 for a small one but well worth it.

I just got one for my small dog (small spanial) who pulls like a train and its brilliant. She is now a pleasure to walk rather an annoyance.

seefin

+1 for front connection harness. I can walk my medium sized dog holding lead with one finger!

DBB wrote: »

Good for you, with a dog who's so determined to pull, gear like choke chains could really damage him.
There are two bits of gear that always rise to the top of the suggestion list in threads like this.
One is a front-connection harness: instead of allowing the dog lean into it like a conventional collar or harness does, the front-connection harness uses simple physics... It's very hard for a dog to pull against something that's in front of him!
There are a few different brands, but having tried them all, my firm favourite is the Premier Easy-Walk Harness, which you'll get at its cheapest, I think, from www.friendsoffido.co.uk
It's really important to fit it properly, and to keep the lead at a length that the dog can walk comfortably beside you but not surge ahead, but not so short that you're applying pressure at every step: let the harness do the work rather than you hanging out of him, or chucking him.
The second bit of gear often recommended by owners of inveterate pullers is a headcollar, called the Dogmatic. Unlike the harness, you must put a bit of time into acclimatising him to wearing a headcollar happily, which you may already have done with a Halti headcollar.
I know people who swear by both, and a small number who still didn't stop their dog pulling, but did at least get a huge improvement, so that they could then effectively reinforce nice heeling behaviour... It doesn't sound like you're getting many opportunities to do this right now!

Jjjjjjjbarry

Thanks guys, I've ordered the easy walk one so fingers crossed!

Is it plug and play or do I need to continue training, I.e if dog pulls ahead I stop and wait for him to come back before continuing?

Shark

My dog use to pull like a train. We brought him for training and the Trainer recommended The Canny Collar. I swear we have never looked back. The results were instant. I took our dog a little while to get used to it but now it's such a pleasure to go for a walk with him.

http://www.cannydogcollar.co.uk/

oldyouth

I just want to add that I'm loving the Halti. My 6 month old choc lab was getting too strong and the training wasn't working. One trip out on the road with this thing and we are both loving our walks now. Tail up the whole time

Cost me €16 in the local pet shop

brokenarms

Is this the one I need for my Yorkie?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Premier-Easy-Walk-Dog-Harness-/251373085431?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_Steamers_Cookers_PP&var=&hash=item3a8700e2f7

DBB

brokenarms wrote: »

Is this the one I need for my Yorkie?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Premier-Easy-Walk-Dog-Harness-/251373085431?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_Steamers_Cookers_PP&var=&hash=item3a8700e2f7

That's the one!
Is she a standard size, or one of the so-called miniatures?

Edited to add: have just seen her pic! She's lovely! And a standard size, I see. I'd think a small or small-medium would fit her fine.

brokenarms

DBB wrote: »

That's the one!
Is she a standard size, or one of the so-called miniatures?

I dont know. I better take her to the pet shop today and ask. God I'm hopeless.

You see now how I might need some help from you guys !!

DBB

I edited my post whilst you were replying... She's a standard! And really lovely too :-)

Jjjjjjjbarry

My boy is doing great with the easy walk by the way. Not perfect but so much easier for me to handle.

Thanks again for the tip.

bluejelly

Just wondering is a slip lead the same as a choke chain? My labs walk mostly off lead but when they are on lead pull constantly. I have tried using a harness but my older lab hates it so i stopped using it. I got a dog trainer to come to the house to help with the pulling and she uses a slip lead (long rope basically) said they are not harmful to the dogs at all. Now she has total control over them...... they walk by her side no pulling at all.......but when i take over the pulling starts again. I would definitely not use a slip lead tho if there is any chance they could hurt my dogs. Maybe its time to try the Premier Easy-Walk Harness?

DBB

The slip lead tightens around the neck, and I don't think they were ever really designed to be a training tool. Rather they're a handy bit of gear for hunters to have in their pockets if they've to walk out on roads or around livestock with their Gundogs, who don't usually wear a collar whilst they're hunting.
Rescue people often use them too, because they tighten and prevent a dog escaping.... For this reason, they're not particularly appropriate as a training tool. They're more a management tool.
I think controlling a dog by the neck, especially with a noose of any kind, is potentially very harmful, and there is some data to back this up.

gimmick

I know a fella who works with helper dogs. He said a method they use for dogs who always pull is to attached a heavy length of rope to the dogs harness or collar and let them off the lead in a big field or the beach or something. Apparently, and I cannot remember exactly what he said it does to the dog, but apparently it works.

Not sure is it nonsense yet, but I am going to give it a go. I cannot see it will do any harm in nothing else.

DBB

gimmick wrote: »

I know a fella who works with helper dogs. He said a method they use for dogs who always pull is to attached a heavy length of rope to the dogs harness or collar and let them off the lead in a big field or the beach or something. Apparently, and I cannot remember exactly what he said it does to the dog, but apparently it works.

I wouldn't go for this at all. Screams of future orthpaedic issues for me, and I can't see how it would actually teach a dog not to pull. I see oul farmers doing something similar with young collies, and it always upsets me, because I just don't see that it can achieve anything positive.
Whilst I don't want to tar everyone involved, not by any stretch, just be aware that some agencies who train helper dogs routinely use less than ethical training techniques. They seem to get away with it because who's going to question them? They're experts aren't they?
I'm afraid, the more I talk to *some* people who volunteer or train for *some* agencies, the more I despair for ethical, knowledge-based dog training.

The Sweeper

If you're using a control harness, try to train as you use it. The harness can be a means to an end, as opposed to an end in itself. Pull control devices are great for allowing you to actually walk your dog. Reward training can be used while you walk to reinforce the position of the dog.

Try a clicker and some treats, or if your dog isn't food driven, a clicker and a ball or a rope or other toy they like.

Pulling is a reward. The dog gets where he wants to go by pulling, so he's essentially reward-trained himself to keep on pulling. Now that you've managed to counter the pulling with a control harness, it's up to you to teach a reward for not pulling. You want to try teaching loose-leash walking as opposed to a heel command - this has the bonus that the dog can feel when that leash tightens, so the association between 'tight leash' and 'consequence' should be quick to come. 'Consequence' in this instance could be a change of direction, or a verbal correction, or a lack of positive reward (no ball, no rope, no treat) - or even a combination of all three ('Nah-ah!' <change direction> <no treat>).

Getting it right is a bit like learning to dance - your timing is EVERYTHING. With my dog, at the size he is, I'm currently working on five-step increments. If he's somewhere beside me on a loose leash, with the length of the leash I have, I can take five steps before he's now ahead of me and pulling.

I can't find a better way to describe it than this:

One, two, three, four, five [dog is still loose leash] *click*-*"good boy"*-*treat*, one, two, three, four, five, [dog is still loose leash] *click**"good boy"**treat*, one, two, three, [he starts forging ahead] four [now the leash is tight] "Nah-ah!" *Direction change* One, two, three, four...

...and so on.

It's quite exhausting - both for the dog and for me - so I try to limit it to 15 minute walks, and I try to exercise him first so he's a bit tired, whether that be ball in the garden or an off-leash run somewhere. I'm trying not to walk him on leash without this no-pull reinforcement at the moment. It is working, but slowly because I have quite a reactive dog, and most bets are off the second we see another dog.

To Elland Back

Sorry to revive an old thread but a little help needed for my 1 yr old lab. I've used the Halti muzzle harness and it works perfectly, but the lad hates it and keeps lying down, trying to get it off him. Also, when I get to the field, I let him off to catch ball and it's just a nuisance. Trying to get him back to refit it was a nightmare

I have had the Halti Harness for about 6 months and it is better than just being on the collar, but not as effective as the muzzle one. He is happy wearing it though

Can I ask if others have used a different make of the harness style which they have found worked better than the Halti one?

Cheers

DBB

To Elland Back wrote: »

Can I ask if others have used a different make of the harness style which they have found worked better than the Halti one?

Cheers

There area few different brands of front-connection harness on the market, and in my opinion, the Halti Harness is the least effective. It's too clunky, it doesn't sit all that well on most dogs, and is trying to be all things to all men.
Having said that, it's fine on some dogs, but the more expensive, well-made harnesses like the Sense-Ible or Sense-Ation, or my favourite the Premier Easy-Walk Harness are leagues ahead of the Halti on more dogs.
I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I know some here have great things to say about the Freedom Harness.

bluejelly

I find the premier easy walk harness great too. Very easy to put on so if she is running around a field I just take it off her.

tk123

The Freedom is imo better than Premier or the Sensi ones. It just sits better on the dog without restricting their movement- especially for a swimmer - I always found the others would kind of fall/slide down at the front restricting their legs a bit. Also it has a velvety belly strap so it doesn't rub at them. And it comes with a 2 point lead for attaching to the front and back until you're ready to use one point.

The thing is with any of the harnesses you have to actually put some time in and train the dog to have some self control so they know what's acceptable and what isn't. My dogs don't pull because I've trained them not to. When everyone else used to leave the park after the morning play session I'd walk around with Bailey on lead throwing treats ahead of us and not letting him have them until he slowly walked up to them. I used to use a clicker and treats too and reward him for keeping the lead loose. I used to get funny looks and laughed at by people for doing this and now I'm the one laughing because my 60+ kgs of golden retrievers are pottering along - I can take them to events/charity walks and we all enjoy it because they're not pulling my arm off. You walk your dog every day so there's always an opportunity imo to train them how to walk correctly - it's not like training another behavior where you need to put time aside? My friends see Bailey and Lucy not pulling and buy the same harness as us and then complain that the harness isn't working or "does nothing to stop him" - they won't put time aside to train him.

Léan

tk123 wrote: »

The Freedom is imo better than Premier or the Sensi ones. It just sits better on the dog without restricting their movement- especially for a swimmer - I always found the others would kind of fall/slide down at the front restricting their legs a bit. Also it has a velvety belly strap so it doesn't rub at them. And it comes with a 2 point lead for attaching to the front and back until you're ready to use one point.
.

Hi Tk, just wondering how you've found the Freedom harness with regards to chafing? Does the velvet really make that much of a difference? I've had Cato on the Premier Easywalk harness since he was a pup, he's three now and in the last week has developed a hotspot in his right underarm area (sensitive pits ). To this point the Premier harness has been brilliant but now i'm looking for a change (aside from wrapping up the belly strap in sheepskin or something).

tk123

I haven't had any problems with chaffing but they don't really pull? I use the freedom for when they're going to be off lead and I use a perfect fit harness for on lead walks- they're very well padded with fleece. I prefer not to have them swimming in the perfect fit because we have the thick 40mm ones and they're a pain to dry

jomalone14

Can anyone recommend a stockist in the Dublin area for the Freedom harness? I've had a look online, my search is bringing up a lot of "fake" Freedom harnesses and I'll like to get my dog measured in person.

Thanks in advance.

tk123

jomalone14 wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a stockist in the Dublin area for the Freedom harness? I've had a look online, my search is bringing up a lot of "fake" Freedom harnesses and I'll like to get my dog measured in person.

Thanks in advance.

Positive Dog Training in Sandyford stock them...and loads of other cool stuff so be warned - you'll spend a fortune :pac:

jomalone14

tk123 wrote: »

Positive Dog Training in Sandyford stock them...and loads of other cool stuff so be warned - you'll spend a fortune :pac:

tk123.........thanks for that!!

Ashbx

I just want to make a point on the front fastening harness! I do think this is fantastic but only works for certain pullers.

I got one for my collie who pulls extremely hard! I put it on her and immediately noticed a difference on my arm however Phoebe still pulled as much as she ever did...it just didn't affect me as much. However, if you can imagine it connected at the front, she was still pulling as much as ever which made the entire harness shift to the side as we were walking (yes, I did get one that was fitted properly) and after about 6 or 7 uses it was chaffing under her arms. So I think it only works with certain pullers. If your dog is determined as mine to pull then personally I think a head collar would be best.

The harness most definitely made a difference to me personally but did not stop the pulling and in fact ended up worse for Phoebe so unfortunately the harness went straight into the bin.

tk123

Ashbx wrote: »

If your dog is determined as mine to pull then personally I think a head collar would be best.

Tbh I think it comes down to who is more determined - the owner in their training efforts or their dog in their pulling! Harnesses are training aids to aid you in training the dog not to pull - I've friends who've tried every harness known to man expecting a quick fix when they're just not bothered to spend 5 mins a day training their dog....you'd be surprised what you can achieve from 5 mins a day!