Ronaldo must be world's greatest player at present.

keeponhurling

marbless wrote: »

I heard Robbie Keane on Newtalk the other night saying he voted Ronaldo No. 1 for Ballon d'Or this year

I heard that Ronaldo returned the favor, fair play to him

tayto lover

Ronaldo is not in the same class as Messi.
Messi is a God.

All stats here for every season

http://messivsronaldo.net/

The_Kew_Tour

Messi is one of the greats(if not greatest)

Roanldo is one of the greats.

Can we just all agree on that and not let bitterness get in the way.

I think Messi is better player myself. This year Ronaldo is hands down best player. He deserves world player this year. No question.

But no way is Messi "superior" either. All the stats in world back that up.

Some people can be so bitter.

Imho Messi is best I have seen in my lifetime. But Ronaldo would not be far away.

Rayne Wooney

Some still can't grasp that people are saying Ronaldo has been the best in 2013, and is obviously not better than Messi in general.

Either that or intentionally overlooking what everybody else is saying just so they can scoff at others.


It's simple, Ronaldo's been better than Messi in 2013, and should win the Balon D'Or, but Messi was better the last 4 years no doubt and is the better player in general.


Having said that personally, the difference between them is but a hairline, we've never seen Messi outside of Barca whereas Ronaldo won United a CL and World Player of the Year in the process. Messi has had players around him that will also go down as greats but I doubt you could say that about many around Ronaldo, phenomenal players obviously but still not at the level of Xavi etc.

JPA

rarnes1 wrote: »

All stats here for every season

http://messivsronaldo.net/

Insane.

Liam O

Messi is technically the best player I have seen play. His close control is absurdly good.

Ronaldo is the best athlete I have seen play the game, the prototype player. I don't think he was born with near the level of natural talent of Mess I but has the most unnatural drive out of anyone I've ever seen to best in the world. His composure and explosiveness are something that's insane.

I've always said that there is no separating them. The two best players to ever play the game hands down imo and I think Ronaldo has been done a disservice by not winning more Ballon d'Ors...

Blatter

Liam O wrote: »

The two best players to ever play the game hands down imo

Johan Cryuff and in particular, Diego Maradona might have something to say about that!

bullvine

Maradona, Pele, Cryuff never got the protection that the current players get, Messi would have probably been on the verge of retiring had he played 30 years ago..

Turtyturd

So we are now at the stage where Messi not only wouldn't be able to cut in another team, or another league...but also in another era.


That's me convinced.

Rayne Wooney

And the scoff-Meister has arrived

Turtwig

Ossie Ardiles actually made a decent point about Messi. He played really well for Argentina this year but because nobody this side of the world really watches South American qualifiers much notice won't be taken. Messi will almost be solely judged for 2013 on his Barca performances. And, that's not accurate.

Rayne Wooney

Argentina competitive games in 2013 with Messi:
Venezuela (37th), Bolivia (71st), Columbia (4th), Ecuador (22nd), Paraguay (49th)

Messi: 5 apps/ 3 goals (2 penos against Paraguay)

Portugal competitive games in 2013 with Ronaldo:
Russia (19th), N. Ireland (90th), Israel (66th), Swedan x2 (25th)

Ronaldo 5 apps/ 7 goals


Ronaldo was miles better for country as well IMO, Messi plays for the superior team, Ronaldo got Portugal to a World Cup. Take Ronaldo out of that team and they are very poor.

The_Kew_Tour

International form?

Messi
http://ie.soccerway.com/teams/argentina/argentina/

Ronaldo.
http://ie.soccerway.com/teams/portugal/portugal/

Goals and quality of opposition Ronaldo wins.

Messi performances were class as usual, but so was Ronaldo.

Still nothing to suggest a swing here.

Ronaldo wins.

shrewdness

TheDoc wrote: »

Hence why Messi suffers more injuries imo. Ronaldo is a much better, stronger physique. Messi doesn't have the same stamina as Ronaldo which is overlooked. It's not in anyway a measure against him, they are just worlds apart in terms of physique and stamina. Messi lights up when the ball is around him or when he is on the ball, but he never moves back past the final third and he typically strolls around.

I don't think he actually has the stamina to do a up and down wing job for 90 minutes, which is nothing against him.

But when I watch Ronaldo, while he doesn't always track back, he does it alot more then he gets credit for. Granted he cant tackle, he is typically there trying to be a nuisance a fair amount. He has the same burst of pace in the 89th minute as the 2nd minute. His engine and stamina is unrivalled and is just a pure athlete. He scores so many goals in the last two minutes, when the opposing team is starting to fatigue, he is still operating at full capacity.

To maintain that level of fitness requires an extra ordinary amount of work and dedication.

I've always maintained that Ronaldo would last longer at the peak of his powers. I'm in no way saying that Messi is slipping, hes in a blip of form and injury. But when you read about Messi and the growth he had to go through unnaturally, that is going to take its toll as you exert yourself in top sport year in year out.

I don't subscribe to Ronaldo benefiting from Messi's absence. A time wwas bound to come where Ronaldo userped him as King. I'm sure if you asked Ronaldo in private he would rather Messi be firing on all cyclinders.

As football fans we are blessed to see the two of them week in week out, most generations had one good player who ruled the roost for a few years alone. WE are being gifted two amazing players going head to head each week. Regardless of what they say or commentators say, La Liga is now simply Ronaldo v Messi each year, and its fascinating.

And at the end of it all, you can only judge a player when they finish their career when you can truly appreciate the genius and magic. I'd be certain that when he retires, someone like say Ibrahimovic will be looked back and regarded as a genius. The lastof a dieing breed of just intellegent footballers. An outragous goal scoring record and medal haul, his image is reflected alot by people who listento Sky Sports and the likes who always say he fails to showup at the big games against British teams. Fact being he doesn't really need to prove alot, considering he has scored 20+ goals a season for something like 9 seasons in a row, which is a disgusting strike rate.

Great post, would agree with all of it. I think Neville made a very valid point on MNF tonight, regarding how the two will get on in the late stages of their careers, that Ronaldo would be better able to adapt to a new role than Messi would. I think most people would be in agreement that in terms of athleticism and physique, Ronaldo wins hands down, and these attributes are very important in determining how long they keep playing. Messi of course could go against all that and keep at this level well into his 30's, but it'll be interesting to watch.

Like others have said, we're very lucky to be watching two of the greats playing at the same time. I honestly think that the two of them playing at such high levels spur each other on to greater things. Look at how Ronaldo hit the ground running in La Liga and how Messi reacted. Ronaldo was the first to score 40 league goals in a season, then Messi gets 50. Ronaldo the first to score against all Liga teams in a season, then Messi does it in a row. Ronaldo the first to win the Ballon d'Or, then Messi takes over, but now looking likely Ronaldo will be getting it back. If either of these players weren't around at this time, the other would be the best in the world by miles. As it is, they're pushing each other to unimaginable highs, and we're lucky enough to be here to watch it all.

The_Kew_Tour

shrewdness wrote: »

Great post, would agree with all of it. I think Neville made a very valid point on MNF tonight, regarding how the two will get on in the late stages of their careers, that Ronaldo would be better able to adapt to a new role than Messi would. I think most people would be in agreement that in terms of athleticism and physique, Ronaldo wins hands down, and these attributes are very important in determining how long they keep playing. Messi of course could go against all that and keep at this level well into his 30's, but it'll be interesting to watch.

Like others have said, we're very lucky to be watching two of the greats playing at the same time. I honestly think that the two of them playing at such high levels spur each other on to greater things. Look at how Ronaldo hit the ground running in La Liga and how Messi reacted. Ronaldo was the first to score 40 league goals in a season, then Messi gets 50. Ronaldo the first to score against all Liga teams in a season, then Messi does it in a row. Ronaldo the first to win the Ballon d'Or first, then Messi takes over, but now looking likely Ronaldo will be getting it back. If either of these players weren't around at this time, the other would be the best in the world by miles. As it is, they're pushing each other to unimaginable highs, and we're lucky enough to be here to watch it all.

Great post.

Agree 100%

Andersonisgod

bullvine wrote: »

I'd really like to see Messi leave Barca, go somewhere else, to a different league like Germany but it will never happen. It would be great to see him in another league.

Why? A player born with natural genius, plucked at a young age from his country, crafted and honed by the best developmental system in football and forged by La Masia and into the modern day great that he is. A player constructed to play at Barcelona, a player honed under the tutelage of Guardiola, a player composed to perform that telepathic link up with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro ect. that we see every week.
Why the earnest to see him play elsewhere? When each week you can watch a natural genius whose been manufactured to play in the most beautiful way, surrounded by players of the same ilk in the same circumstances. In short, you are watching a prodigy in ideal conditions, as close to perfection as football may ever come, why would you want to see him go elsewhere?

brevity

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why? A player born with natural genius, plucked at a young age from his country, crafted and honed by the best developmental system in football and forged by La Masia and into the modern day great that he is. A player constructed to play at Barcelona, a player honed under the tutelage of Guardiola, a player composed to perform that telepathic link up with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro ect. that we see every week.
Why the earnest to see him play elsewhere? When each week you can watch a natural genius whose been manufactured to play in the most beautiful way, surrounded by players of the same ilk in the same circumstances. In short, you are watching a prodigy in ideal conditions, as close to perfection as football may ever come, why would you want to see him go elsewhere?

Holy thesaurus Batman!

Andersonisgod

brevity wrote: »

Holy thesaurus Batman!

haha knowing a few synonyms for the word merged or forged shouldn't require a thesaurus.

Rayne Wooney

Andersonisgod wrote: »

why would you want to see him go elsewhere?

Obviously to satisfy curiosity, to see if he is able to do it, as Ronaldo always has, without players like Xavi and the gang in the same team.

"A cold Saturday morning in Stoke" etc etc

Not taking anything away from him, but it would be damn interesting to find out.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Andersonisgod

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Obviously to satisfy curiosity, to see if he is able to do it, as Ronaldo always has, without players like Xavi and the gang in the same team.

"A cold Saturday morning in Stoke" etc etc

Not taking anything away from him, but it would be damn interesting to find out.

I hardly think he needs a cold Saturday in Stoke to prove that he is the greatest football ever. Indeed Maradona never needed a cold Saturday in Stoke, Pele didn't need one either, nor Cruyff or Ronaldinho or Zidane.

You'd almost swear that La Liga has no tough away fixtures at hostile grounds.

I'm sure he'd still be a great player, he might still be the best player in the world, afterall he's not too shabby for Argentina, but he's a player whose been built to play the Barcelona way, with Barcelona players and the end result has been that over the last 4-5 years we've witnessed the best player in the world, maybe the best ever.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why? A player born with natural genius, plucked at a young age from his country, crafted and honed by the best developmental system in football and forged by La Masia and into the modern day great that he is. A player constructed to play at Barcelona, a player honed under the tutelage of Guardiola, a player composed to perform that telepathic link up with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro ect. that we see every week.
Why the earnest to see him play elsewhere? When each week you can watch a natural genius whose been manufactured to play in the most beautiful way, surrounded by players of the same ilk in the same circumstances. In short, you are watching a prodigy in ideal conditions, as close to perfection as football may ever come, why would you want to see him go elsewhere?

Not curious at all to see him out of his comfort zone though? I think Messi would still be excellent in another league, but I'd still like to see it. Why wouldn't you want to see him in less 'ideal' conditions? He'll still go down as a great, but it is the one little nagging thing, to see how he'd do in a different league.

You'll always firmly have your Barca hat, so maybe you wouldn't quite get it.

Turtwig

Anybody else hoping Ronaldo joins Chelsea?

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

Not curious at all to see him out of his comfort zone though? I think Messi would still be excellent in another league, but I'd still like to see it. Why wouldn't you want to see him in less 'ideal' conditions? He'll still go down as a great, but it is the one little nagging thing, to see how he'd do in a different league.

You'll always firmly have your Barca hat, so maybe you wouldn't quite get it.

You see him with Argentina, isn't that enough?

And no, I don't get it, you're watching perfection, the one in a billion case of genius being spotted at a tender age and nurtured by the best system in football and the prodigy has matured and become the greatest football ever. So no, I don't get it.

Andersonisgod

Jernal wrote: »

Anybody else hoping Ronaldo joins Chelsea?

I honestly don't hate Ronaldo and he's an outstanding player at a huge club. A sublime talent, and a goal scoring machine. But he isn't Messi, who, for me, is peerless.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

You see him with Argentina, isn't that enough?

And no, I don't get it, you're watching perfection, the one in a billion case of genius being spotted at a tender age and nurtured by the best system in football and the prodigy has matured and become the greatest football ever. So no, I don't get it.

Because Argentina is the same thing alright.

Saying 'best system' continually doesn't add to your point. He is the best player in the world, and at his most comfortable too. I just think from a footballing point of view it would be extremely interesting to see him on a different platform, to see how he'd perform. I don't ever expect him to leave Barcelona, I just think it would be more interesting if he ever did.

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

Because Argentina is the same thing alright.

Saying 'best system' continually doesn't add to your point. He is the best player in the world, and at his most comfortable too. I just think from a footballing point of view it would be extremely interesting to see him on a different platform, to see how he'd perform. I don't ever expect him to leave Barcelona, I just think it would be more interesting if he ever did.

Well there's no Xavi, Iniesta or Busquets for Argentina and yet he's not done too badly without them.

It does, it definitely does, repetition for the sake of emphasis is important. I don't agree at all, I'd completely disagree infact due to the point I put forward in my earliest comment tonight.

Xavi6

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why? A player born with natural genius, plucked at a young age from his country, crafted and honed by the best developmental system in football and forged by La Masia and into the modern day great that he is. A player constructed to play at Barcelona, a player honed under the tutelage of Guardiola, a player composed to perform that telepathic link up with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro ect. that we see every week.
Why the earnest to see him play elsewhere? When each week you can watch a natural genius whose been manufactured to play in the most beautiful way, surrounded by players of the same ilk in the same circumstances. In short, you are watching a prodigy in ideal conditions, as close to perfection as football may ever come, why would you want to see him go elsewhere?

I eagerly await your posts if he ends up at City next year

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/25/lionel-messi-manchester-city-pablo-zabaleta?CMP=twt_gu

Lionel Messi often asks Pablo Zabaleta about life at Manchester City

Lionel Messi is fascinated by Manchester City and often asks Pablo Zabaleta about life at the club, according to the Argentina right-back who numbers the world player of the year as a close friend.

Messi's future at Camp Nou has been the subject of speculation after Barcelona's president, Sandro Rosell, was forced to deny that Cristiano Ronaldo's new five-year deal worth €17m (£14m) a year had moved the Argentinian – who has a €250m (£208m) release clause and earns €16m a year – to demand a review of his current agreement, which ends in 2016.

Zabaleta, who joined City in 2008 from Espanyol, said: "I remember when we were in Barcelona we were very close friends because we were living in the same city and had known each other for a number of years. I was just starting out at Espanyol and Lionel was at Barça. When I signed for City I think two days later the news broke that Sheikh Mansour had bought the club and Lionel always recalls that I joined at such a fantastic time.

"He asked me a lot about City but I couldn't tell him much because I didn't know much myself – but it's something we often talk about. Plus the fact that I'm still here."

TheMilkyPirate

brevity wrote: »

Holy thesaurus Batman!

Aw man, First time I've laughed out loud at something on boards for a while

The_Kew_Tour

Messi wont be going to City.

Not now.

Not ever.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well there's no Xavi, Iniesta or Busquets for Argentina and yet he's not done too badly without them.

It does, it definitely does, repetition for the sake of emphasis is important. I don't agree at all, I'd completely disagree infact due to the point I put forward in my earliest comment tonight.

Argentina have hardly been short of top quality players either.

It doesn't add to your point because you already said it, I took your point therefore further emphasis isn't needed.

But yes we disagree on how interesting it would be to see Messi out of his comfort zone.

Augmerson

Where could Messi realistically go if he did leave Barcelona?

DARK-KNIGHT

Augmerson wrote: »

Where could Messi realistically go if he did leave Barcelona?

Bayern nowhere else

Augmerson

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Bayern nowhere else

Really? Looks unlikely to me I don't think it would suit but hey I've been wrong before.

larchielads

Augmerson wrote: »

Where could Messi realistically go if he did leave Barcelona?

city and chelsea could afford his wages maybe cant afford the price tag right now maybe wait til hes got a year maybe 18 months left oh his contract and see what happens, same goes for psg but england would be a better league to join doubt he'd leave but hey anythin can happen in football after all bale cost 100m euro:P

Turtwig

Messi would have a field day in the EPL.

cournioni

rarnes1 wrote: »

You really went out on a limb there considering Messi has only had one club!

Fantastic contribution to the thread.

bullvine

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why? A player born with natural genius, plucked at a young age from his country, crafted and honed by the best developmental system in football and forged by La Masia and into the modern day great that he is. A player constructed to play at Barcelona, a player honed under the tutelage of Guardiola, a player composed to perform that telepathic link up with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro ect. that we see every week.
Why the earnest to see him play elsewhere? When each week you can watch a natural genius whose been manufactured to play in the most beautiful way, surrounded by players of the same ilk in the same circumstances. In short, you are watching a prodigy in ideal conditions, as close to perfection as football may ever come, why would you want to see him go elsewhere?

He should move though, you said it yourself Barca are built to get the best out of him. Does that not say enough for you. He should move from his comfort zone. What I want is for when he retires that we can be in no doubt that hes the greatest ever and unfortunately no matter how biased you are people who don't support him will use the fact he played in a comfort zone to dismiss the fact that hes the greatest.

Zidane, Figo, Maradona, Both Ronaldo's, have all played for more than one great club and been brilliant for them. They moved from their comfort zone, other great players like Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Stoickchov, moved clubs and were not successful..

Too Tough To Die

bullvine wrote: »

He should move though, you said it yourself Barca are built to get the best out of him. Does that not say enough for you. He should move from his comfort zone. What I want is for when he retires that we can be in no doubt that hes the greatest ever and unfortunately no matter how biased you are people who don't support him will use the fact he played in a comfort zone to dismiss the fact that hes the greatest.

Zidane, Figo, Maradona, Both Ronaldo's, have all played for more than one great club and been brilliant for them. They moved from their comfort zone, other great players like Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Stoickchov, moved clubs and were not successful..

Yeah because playing for great clubs like Manchester United and Real Madrid who spent ridiculous sums of money to try to build a team around you is really stepping outside of your comfort zone.

bullvine

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Yeah because playing for great clubs like Manchester United and Real Madrid who spent ridiculous sums of money to try to build a team around you is really stepping outside of your comfort zone.

Yeah, it is actually, moving to a new club, new surroundings, new players, what has the money go to do it with, loads of clubs spend big money including Barca. Big signings like Veron, Shevchenko etc moved to other big clubs from Europe who had spent lots of money and were poor signings.

Who is the say Messi wouldn't be? Shevchenko was the best striker in Europe when he signed for Chelsea, and look how that turned out.

Too Tough To Die

bullvine wrote: »

Yeah, it is actually, moving to a new club, new surroundings, new players, what has the money go to do it with, loads of clubs spend big money including Barca. Big signings like Veron, Shevchenko etc moved to other big clubs from Europe who had spent lots of money and were poor signings.

Who is the say Messi wouldn't be? Shevchenko was the best striker in Europe when he signed for Chelsea, and look how that turned out.

Ronaldo moving to Real was not him stepping outside of his comfort zone, it was him going to the club where he had the best chance to succeed and where the team would spend huge sums of money to ensure he succeeds. On an individual level he has excelled, but his trophy haul has been okay, at best.

Shevchenko and Veron are not and have never been near the same level as either Messi or Ronaldo and as such are not relevant to the discussion.

bullvine

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Ronaldo moving to Real was not him stepping outside of his comfort zone, it was him going to the club where he had the best chance to succeed and where the team would spend huge sums of money to ensure he succeeds. On an individual level he has excelled, but his trophy haul has been okay, at best.

Shevchenko and Veron are not and have never been near the same level as either Messi or Ronaldo and as such are not relevant to the discussion.

Well I guess our concept of comfort zones are different, me personally if I'm near the top of my field in whatever job I work in and I get offered a role in a different country, with new peers, new surroundings etc and I have the chance to move, I'd be moving into the unknown and it would be a big challenge but you'll probably say hes a pro footballer but history has shown us that's not always the case.

Messi has never known anything but Barca, Ronaldo moved from the island of Madeira, to Sporting Lisbon on to United as a 18 year old and then to Real.

Just because they are not as great as the divine two, Shevchenko/Veron were still world class players who moved to different teams and flopped.

bucketybuck

Its something that, quite rightly, Messi is always going to have to account for.

Ronaldo broke scoring records and won the Ballon D'or in one country, moved to another league/country, broke more scoring records and now looks set to win another Ballon D'or.

Messi stayed at the same club since he was a kid, a club where he had two of the greatest midfielders of all time behind him supplying unmatched service to help him break his own scoring records.

Its a question thats always going to hang over Messi, what would he have scored without Xavi and Iniesta? The only way that will change is by changing the scenario by moving clubs. It will never happen though so its all a moot point.

bullvine

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its something that, quite rightly, Messi is always going to have to account for.

Ronaldo broke scoring records and won the Ballon D'or in one country, moved to another league/country, broke more scoring records and now looks set to win another Ballon D'or.

Messi stayed at the same club since he was a kid, a club where he had two of the greatest midfielders of all time behind him supplying unmatched service to help him break his own scoring records.

Its a question thats always going to hang over Messi, what would he have scored without Xavi and Iniesta? The only way that will change is by changing the scenario by moving clubs. It will never happen though so its all a moot point.

Bravo, you have managed to describe my point better than I did!

Too Tough To Die

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its something that, quite rightly, Messi is always going to have to account for.

Ronaldo broke scoring records and won the Ballon D'or in one country, moved to another league/country, broke more scoring records and now looks set to win another Ballon D'or.

Messi stayed at the same club since he was a kid, a club where he had two of the greatest midfielders of all time behind him supplying unmatched service to help him break his own scoring records.

Its a question thats always going to hang over Messi, what would he have scored without Xavi and Iniesta? The only way that will change is by changing the scenario by moving clubs. It will never happen though so its all a moot point.

It's a pub question that will have little bearing on his legacy when it's all said and done.

JaMarcus Hustle

I agree. It's testament to his greatness that Ronaldo was able to make the most out of playing alongside talentless, uncreative scrubs like Rooney, Scholes, Tevez, Xabi Alonso, Ozil, Di Maria, Higuain.....

brevity

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I agree. It's testament to his greatness that Ronaldo was able to make the most out of playing alongside talentless, uncreative scrubs like Rooney, Scholes, Tevez, Xabi Alonso, Ozil, Di Maria, Higuain.....

Exactly.

Both played with some world class players, not just Messi.

bucketybuck

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I agree. It's testament to his greatness that Ronaldo was able to make the most out of playing alongside talentless, uncreative scrubs like Rooney, Scholes, Tevez, Xabi Alonso, Ozil, Di Maria, Higuain.....

You think you are making a point here, but the reality is that Xavi and Iniesta will be classed as two of the greatest of all time in a way that Rooney, Tevez, Di Maria or Higuain could only dream off.

Not only that, but Messi has had ten years of playing and training with Xavi/Iniesta every single day, they have had the time to develop a complete understanding of each others game, whereas Ronaldo had to do it fresh again and again.

JaMarcus Hustle

bucketybuck wrote: »

You think you are making a point here, but the reality is that Xavi and Iniesta will be classed as two of the greatest of all time in a way that Rooney, Tevez, Di Maria or Higuain could only dream off.

Not only that, but Messi has had ten years of playing and training with Xavi/Iniesta every single day, they have had the time to develop a complete understanding of each others game, whereas Ronaldo had to do it fresh again and again.

Again, you make it sound like Ronaldo has had it tough.

He played alongside Ozil who had the most assists of anyone in Europe over the final 3 years he was with Madrid. 91 assists. Di Maria has 55 assists since he joined Madrid. Rooney had ~60 assists during Ronaldo's last 4 years at United.

Will they be remembered as fondly as Xavi or Iniesta? Probably not, but they were very talented, very creative players who helped Ronaldo the same way that Xavi, Iniesta and co. have helped Messi.

Ridiculous argument.