Bitcoin

Mickk

Has anyone got involved with Bitcoin? I was lucky enough to buy some at about 150 each, they are about 800 each now. I didn't buy them just to speculate, I think they have a real future and I think it's a better way to store money than in currency which will be inflated by money printing... When you look into the infrastructure that has been built up around it it's very interesting.

relaxed

Anything that goes from 150 to 800 smells like a pyramid scheme.

Mickk

You saw two numbers and decided the whole thing is a scam, I'll forget it so. Or maybe it's something which goes up and down depending on events, Ben Bernanke commenting that it "may hold long term value" may have helped or the FED's very positive hearing on it, maybe the deputy govnor of the Peoples Bank of China saying that the Chinese should be allowed to "buy and sell bitcoin without interference from the central bank" or maybe it was Baidu (the fifth biggest website in the world) starting to accept it as payment for a section of it's site or maybe it was Richard Bransons endorsement and announcement that he is starting to accept it on Virgin Galactic??

cormie

If only I listened to you when you phoned me when they were at 380 Mickk, I'm a bit too afraid to put money into anything like this but it's certainly interesting. The introduction of the likes of litecoin etc makes me wonder how valuable it will be though. What happens when there's 40 differnet bitcoin type currencies?

I wonder how easy bitcoins would be to manipulate by a very big investor? Since there is a limited amount of them, what if someone like Soros decides to drop a few billion on bitcoins, and then dump them a few weeks later?

Peterdalkey

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how easy bitcoins would be to manipulate by a very big investor? Since there is a limited amount of them, what if someone like Soros decides to drop a few billion on bitcoins, and then dump them a few weeks later?

The price would go down when he dumped them, thus he would lose! He would have to short sell them and buy after they fell!

PaulPinnacle

cormie wrote: »

What happens when there's 40 differnet bitcoin type currencies?

With Ripple now officially open source, very easy for that to jump to 400. The good news is it's the execution that will make the odd one stand out, but it'll be a bit of a mess until that happens and even with just the one the uptake by the majority (myself included) will continue to be slow.

dkane

Mickk wrote: »

Has anyone got involved with Bitcoin? I was lucky enough to buy some at about 150 each, they are about 800 each now. I didn't buy them just to speculate, I think they have a real future and I think it's a better way to store money than in currency which will be inflated by money printing... When you look into the infrastructure that has been built up around it it's very interesting.

I'm holding a small amount of Bitcoin. Bought around the €100 mark.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a crash in the next week or so, maybe back down to the €200-€300 mark.

As a money transfer mechanism it is fantastic. So easy to send/receive Bitcoin and basically free.
If the exchange rate settles down I can really see it take on Paypal, Western Union etc for money transfers.

Mickk

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how easy bitcoins would be to manipulate by a very big investor? Since there is a limited amount of them, what if someone like Soros decides to drop a few billion on bitcoins, and then dump them a few weeks later?

The market capitalisation is about 10 billion dollars so I'd say there are stocks (or small countries) which would be easier to manipulate...

AtomicHorror

dkane wrote: »

I'm holding a small amount of Bitcoin. Bought around the €100 mark.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a crash in the next week or so, maybe back down to the €200-€300 mark.

As a money transfer mechanism it is fantastic. So easy to send/receive Bitcoin and basically free.
If the exchange rate settles down I can really see it take on Paypal, Western Union etc for money transfers.

It's seeing some limited uptake in retail too, seemingly such retailers are happy to accept brief confirmations when the transaction sizes are low. Would be very easy for places like Tesco to implement what with their automated tills with the big screens. Scan a QR code and off you go. Wouldn't hold my breath though, big companies are rarely big innovators.

Mickk

AtomicHorror wrote: »

It's seeing some limited uptake in retail too, seemingly such retailers are happy to accept brief confirmations when the transaction sizes are low. Would be very easy for places like Tesco to implement what with their automated tills with the big screens. Scan a QR code and off you go. Wouldn't hold my breath though, big companies are rarely big innovators.

A couple of Subway's already accept it and the corporate Subway twitter account recently tweeted about it... They are franchises obviously so it's just a few enthusiasts who own the franchises but still a fairly big step. I don't think day to day spending money is broken so I don't think bitcoin should or will ever take over that side of things, I do think it has massive benefits for moving and storing wealth, it will take a few years to stabilise and it might not be bitcoin that ends up on top but something with these features is needed.

Fukuyama

A year ago it was being laughed at by everyone but forum lurkers. Now it's getting regular coverage in the Financial Times. There was a one-page story on it about how the Chinese are giving it the unofficial 'wink and nod' and the FBI said their strategy when it comes to digital problems is to come up with long-term strategies instead of playing Whack-a-mole.

Everyone went a little crazy when the feds took out the Silk Road marketplace and people said it was the end of Bit Coin. If anything, the FBI seems to have only been interested in knocking the drug trade on the head rather than the currency. So they've cleaned up BitCoins image quite a bit.

I dunno. It's value and usage still depends greatly on the traditional banking system. The only way governments will allow it to be legitimized is if exchanges put in place capital controls to stop money laundering (like ensuring customers have a local bank accounts). The Chinese are strict on that and they're now home to the biggest BitCoin exchange on the world (since last week, anyways).

Right now it seems like a good way to make a few thousand quid if you're risk tolerance is very high.

But I quite like the idea of not having to pay stupid bank charges every time I get paid / use debit card / change currency. If only the damn currency would stabilize.

L.Jenkins

Dean0088 wrote: »

Right now it seems like a good way to make a few thousand quid if you're risk tolerance is very high.

But I quite like the idea of not having to pay stupid bank charges every time I get paid / use debit card / change currency. If only the damn currency would stabilize.

I stayed away from Bitcoins because of its instability, but I'm like a dog at the moment. Couple of months ago I was gambling with the thought but decided against it. Now that I've seen the sharp rise in Bitcoin value over the last 3 months, I'm somewhat raging I didn't have the money to invest.

I would still be extremely cautious and keep an eye out for any related news that may affect its price.

cormie

Itzy, would you invest now if you had the money or do you think the gravy train is well and truly gone at this stage?

L.Jenkins

cormie wrote: »

Itzy, would you invest now if you had the money or do you think the gravy train is well and truly gone at this stage?

I really don't know to be honest. I'd nearly be of the mind to invest on a bet, that it would crash. Just can't be sure what I'd do if I had the money.

Peterdalkey

Itzy wrote: »

I really don't know to be honest. I'd nearly be of the mind to invest on a bet, that it would crash. Just can't be sure what I'd do if I had the money.

Or die wondering?

L.Jenkins

Well that's the risk of Investment betting I suppose :P I'd just be worried about tossing my money into a deep dark hole.

AtomicHorror

cormie wrote: »

Itzy, would you invest now if you had the money or do you think the gravy train is well and truly gone at this stage?

The feeling amongst many (whoever that is) is that BTC will either come to be worth pretty much nothing, or somewhere above €10,000. Perhaps even above €100,000. I assume this is based on projected market capitalisation but I couldn't comment on how reliable that is.

I think most exchanges expect a minimum transaction of €5, so you can buy in for very little. Ultimately it's just a question of whether you reckon that's a positive expectation bet.

hakxxx

Hi guys
How do you buy bitcoins in Ireland? I saw this site eircon.net but how do you trust them? What site can I use to purchase?
Thanks

magic_murph

I have used https://www.mtgox.com/ in the past.
from your irish bank account you send the amount you want, say €1000, to a bank account in poland - you use your mtgox account number as reference.
Give it a couple of days and the balance should appear in your MTgox account.
Any problems and an email to their support team should solve it.

I have made 3 or 4 transactions, the first 2 were slow to arrive but after 1 day of taking to the support team and all was sorted.

Will be purchasing those these guys again.

Mickk

cormie wrote: »

If only I listened to you when you phoned me when they were at 380 Mickk, I'm a bit too afraid to put money into anything like this but it's certainly interesting. The introduction of the likes of litecoin etc makes me wonder how valuable it will be though. What happens when there's 40 differnet bitcoin type currencies?

You're going to hate me cormie, I bought about 100 litecoin the day you made this post and they doubled over night! Still going up, I bought at 9.75 each, 22 now. I just looked at the graph of history of bitcoin and litecoin, they have always been 1/.02 1/.03, when I bought they were down to 1/.013, as of today they are back up to 1/.025.

D3PO

have made a small investment in this myself purely as a speculative punt.

if it goes to crap so be it but given the mechanics behind it and the fact theres only about 6 million wallets worldwide theres certainly merit in the scope that it could go beyond 10k per BTC in the short term.

L.Jenkins

Just to highlight the rather quick rise in price over the course of 3 - 4 months from 100+ to just over 1000. That in itself would make me a little nervous and consider a possibility that the price could collapse again.

Nika Bolokov

One of the biggest vulnerabilities is the ability of the exchanges to repel malicious attacks aimed at manipulating the price:

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/11/ddos_bitcoin/

http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/11/bitcoins-skyrocketing-value-ushers-in-era-of-1-million-hacker-heists/

Zascar

I'm going to have a punt at this, I was thinking about it a few months ago but never bothered. I always 'think about it' - and regret not doing it later. I know its highly volatile but I'll just throw in a bit of spare cash I have and see what happens. I set up an mtgox account just waiting on verification. Has anyone use Eircoin? Any reason to use one over the other?

AtomicHorror

Try BitStamp as well, generally cheaper than Mt.Gox. Right now BTC is $1033 on Mt.Gox and $953 on BitStamp.

L.Jenkins

Zascar wrote: »

I'm going to have a punt at this, I was thinking about it a few months ago but never bothered. I always 'think about it' - and regret not doing it later. I know its highly volatile but I'll just throw in a bit of spare cash I have and see what happens. I set up an mtgox account just waiting on verification. Has anyone use Eircoin? Any reason to use one over the other?

I use plus500 and find it great, with the freedom of trading what I like and when I like.

I would say, keep an eye on news relating to BTC on both the internet and magazines you can pick up in shops. Usually provides good information on what's going on and market movements.

Stamply

I think the real value in Bitcoin is for ecommerce. Ecommerce sites are being bled dry by the likes of Realex, the banks and Paypal. If the currency stabilises and they accept bitcoin they cut out all of these charges...

This will take the web agencies that build the ecommerce sites or something like Shopify pushing it in the long run. No sign of that yet as these are risk-averse companies...

dkane

localbitcoins.com is also a good place to buy.
Cheaper than mtgox. It is more of a marketplace where different sellers offer different quantities and payment methods.
localbitcoins.com hold the bitcoins in escrow until the transaction is completed.
There are even sellers who will meet you in Dublin if you want to pay cash for your bitcoins.

Zascar

Thanks that looks interesting. So what happens when you have sent the money to the person - how do they send you the bitcoins and what do you do with them?

dkane

The seller has to have enough Bitcoins in their LocalBitcoins wallet to cover the amount they are advertising.

When you make an offer and they accept it LocalBitcoins freeze the amount that you are buying so that they cannot sell them on to someone else or remove them from the service.

You then make the payment for the Bitcoins, via bank transfer, OKpay etc.

Once the seller has received the payment LocalBitcoins transfer the coins to your LocalBitcoins wallet.
You can then transfer them to any Bitcoin address you wish (a wallet on your PC or phone etc) or spend them directly from your LocalBitcoins wallet.