Bitcoin

alb

Stamply wrote: »

This will take the web agencies that build the ecommerce sites or something like Shopify pushing it in the long run. No sign of that yet as these are risk-averse companies...

You know shopify just enabled bitcoin payments yesterday right?
http://www.shopify.com/blog/10446157-shopify-merchants-can-now-accept-bitcoin#axzz2lw5APcZa

Xios

If you don't understand it, don't buy into it. Although im poor as **** and can't buy anything anyway, but if Eve Online has thought me anything, "if it seems too good to be true, it's too good to be true"

Gloomtastic!

I'm seeing Tulips, Dot-coms and property all rolled into one. Madness, absolute madness........... :rolleyes:

dkane

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I'm seeing Tulips, Dot-coms and property all rolled into one. Madness, absolute madness........... :rolleyes:

I'm not saying you are wrong to be sceptical. There is probably as much chance of Bitcoin going to €0 as their is of it going to €10,000 but all money is a trust game. The Euro or Dollar only works because people believe in it. It had purchasing power yesterday so we believe it will have purchasing power tomorrow.

Fiat currencies like the Dollar are easier to compare to tulips at the minute. The Dollar is being printed at an unprecedented pace ($85,000,000 in QE per month). The supply of Bitcoin is limited by design and known in advance.

alb

dkane wrote: »

The Dollar is being printed at an unprecedented pace ($85,000,000 in QE per month).

Much worse than that, it's actually $85,000,000,000 new dollars per month.

dkane

alb wrote: »

Much worse than that, it's actually $85,000,000,000 new dollars per month.

What's a few zeros between friends!

Gloomtastic!

dkane wrote: »

I'm not saying you are wrong to be sceptical. There is probably as much chance of Bitcoin going to €0 as their is of it going to €10,000 but all money is a trust game. The Euro or Dollar only works because people believe in it. It had purchasing power yesterday so we believe it will have purchasing power tomorrow.

Fiat currencies like the Dollar are easier to compare to tulips at the minute. The Dollar is being printed at an unprecedented pace ($85,000,000 in QE per month). The supply of Bitcoin is limited by design and known in advance.

Next time I'm in a taxi, hopefully the driver will be able to tell me all about it. Then I'll know you're right!

Just look again at the graph Itzy posted earlier -

Grudaire

In fairness Gloomtastic, dkane is perfectly correct in saying that currency relies on trust. Since currencies have been delinked from the gold standard the only intrinsic value the currency has is the knowledge that someone will happily accept it.

IMO the big issue with bitcoin is that if it crashes it will crash very fast and hard. It is a completely illiquid market. I would not like to be stuck with bitcoins when it crashes because it will not be possible to sell them as they drop. Nobody will be silly enough to buy them! Its not like a share price dropping where the share price is linked to the value of the company.

Nobody would be stupid enough to buy millions worth of bitcoins as the price falls!

Stamply

Put yourself in the position of a merchant rather than a currency speculator for a minute.

Right now taking payments online is risky business because of credit card fraud, which causes two main problems:

1) Fees charged by services providers are large, taking a big chuck out of your margin as a seller
2) Paying for things online is a pain in the ass due to security measures like 3D secure

With Bitcoin, as a seller you take payment in advance (like cash) so the risk is all on the buyer. Nobody sticks their hand in your bank account to take your money, you only push the credits at the seller. This is good for reliable sellers.

If sellers only accept small amounts of bitcoin in the beginning due to the risk they can set up automated exchanges at the end of the month and get notified of price fluctuations. Then over time they can increase their Bitcoin cashflow as risk is reduced.

At the very least this would put a fire under the established payment processing industry to lower prices to merchants because an alternative exists.

Thus, my view is that a nice parallel equilibrium will ensue with short term fluctuations in the price of Bitcoin causing marginal losses for merchants (crucially, these losses will be less than the cost of traditional payment processing because merchants will have low bitcoin cashflow in the beginning) and long-term fluctuations in the price of bitcoin periodically increasing and decreasing the cost of traditional payment processing.

This just makes sense to me...

Nuttzz

this has got to hurt, chucked out a hard drive with 7500 bitcoins on it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-25134289

Selik

Zascar wrote: »

I'm going to have a punt at this, I was thinking about it a few months ago but never bothered. I always 'think about it' - and regret not doing it later. I know its highly volatile but I'll just throw in a bit of spare cash I have and see what happens. I set up an mtgox account just waiting on verification. Has anyone use Eircoin? Any reason to use one over the other?

Hey Colly hope all is well?

Eircoin is a good place to start, very reliable. I got a few a while back from them with no issues. I'm approved on Mt.Gox and trying to get verified on Bitstamp too. I've already transferred some millicoins (1/1000 of a bitcoin) back and forth from my wallet just to test out and it all worked a treat.

The cash I put into Bitcoin I can afford to lose (not a huge amount but that's changing) and I only intend to cash out from time to time over the next few years by making actual purchases I intend to make anyway, if that makes sense

Bitstamp works well, Ive used it. Make a bank transfer to them and your coins arrive the day the transfer hits their account in Slovenia

fleck

dkane wrote: »

The Euro or Dollar only works because people believe in it. It had purchasing power yesterday so we believe it will have purchasing power tomorrow.

Fiat currencies like the Dollar are easier to compare to tulips at the minute. The Dollar is being printed at an unprecedented pace ($85,000,000 in QE per month). The supply of Bitcoin is limited by design and known in advance.

In fairness the guys behind the Dollar, Euro, Pound etc. (i.e. the government) have a fair bit of power to raise taxes, seize property etc. to support the currency if necessary, also it's legal tender i.e. you are obliged to accept it in settlement of a debt.

The supply of Bitcoin is limited by design but the idea behind this is to promote price stability and avoid inflation by quantitate easing. However the current price fluctuation make it impossible to use for normal business transactions/contracts thereby negating the so called advantages of it.

I see lots of speculators crowing the advantages of the currency but that's because they own some, truth be told it would be worth more to merchants if the price was stable but then would there be anyone promoting it.

dunner515

Has anybody heard of the currency Infinitecoin (IFC)
I have heard a few friends talking about but was wondering has anybody outside my social circle heard about it?

magic_murph

Just about to buy €1200 worth of bitcoins so will see what value that has in a couple of weeks.

Peterdalkey

hope they are all Kosher!! http://www.independent.ie/world-news/police-foil-german-bitcoin-fraud-29809731.html

magic_murph

It's all very risky but with a bit of risk comes reward.
The underground market places was taken off line during the week - apparently hacked with the hackers taking some 96k bitcoins which could be worth up to 100million.
Madness when you think about it

dkane

Peterdalkey wrote: »

hope they are all Kosher!! http://www.independent.ie/world-news/police-foil-german-bitcoin-fraud-29809731.html

The issue was not that the Bitcoins were fakes, the issue is that they used an illegal botnet running across their victims' computers to mine for them.

Peterdalkey

dkane wrote: »

The issue was not that the Bitcoins were fakes, the issue is that they used an illegal botnet running across their victims' computers to mine for them.

That is good to know, only the original owner(s) would have lost out, the next buyers would be OK! But when they are gone, they are........

dkane

Peterdalkey wrote: »

That is good to know, only the original owner(s) would have lost out, the next buyers would be OK! But when they are gone, they are........

The coins were not really stolen from anyone. The bitcoins were generated as a result of the mining. They did not belong to anyone prior to this. Each new block that is mined generates 25 new bitcoin.

I guess the people who had the botnet running on their machines lost out as their CPU cycles generated the new bitcoins but they were not paid their share.

The coins could possibly be lost if the hard disks that the wallets were on have been confiscated and they do not have them backed up.

dkane

The original story, before the Independent changed the facts! - http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2-arrested-bitcoins-seized-german-fraud-probe

Peterdalkey

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/irish-traders-avoid-bitcoin-bubble-251827.html well it appears not all Irish traders did!!

AtomicHorror

Peterdalkey wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/irish-traders-avoid-bitcoin-bubble-251827.html well it appears not all Irish traders did!!

I have bitcoins that I bought just last week that are still worth more today than I paid from. Some bubble.

Peterdalkey

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I have bitcoins that I bought just last week that are still worth more today than I paid from. Some bubble.

I am sure you are right, it will be a "soft landing" . The fundamentals are sound and the noise is just market overreaction!

dkane

Peterdalkey wrote: »

I am sure you are right, it will be a "soft landing" . The fundamentals are sound and the noise is just market overreaction!

or Bitcoin could go to the moon and everyone will be wishing they had bought at €800.
Its far too early to call it a bubble.
the charts (https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price )don't suggest that many people will have been burnt yet. I mean the high was around €900, its only fallen to €800.

In my opinion its 50/50 whether it hits €900 or €700 next.

AtomicHorror

Peterdalkey wrote: »

I am sure you are right, it will be a "soft landing" . The fundamentals are sound and the noise is just market overreaction!

Yeah I see what you're doing there.

It's all very well comparing the attitudes and the soundbytes, but much like the sceptics obsession with comparing BTC's growth to the classic bubble growth curve diagram, superficial comparisons are meaningless.

Anyway, I'm not making a point about BTC's long term chances, just saying that the article linked is way off base. Few people got burnt anywhere yesterday, in Ireland or elsewhere. Maybe BTC really will crash some day, but it didn't happen yesterday.

Peterdalkey

You are perfectly entitled to hold any belief you choose as am I and also to articulate it without being ridiculed as a some sort of a lesser educated baboon. This monkey just thinks they are BS, but are probably fit for the purposes of those of those involved in nefarious activities, and some others who value them.

Stamply

Peterdalkey wrote: »

You are perfectly entitled to hold any belief you choose as am I and also to articulate it without being ridiculed as a some sort of a lesser educated baboon. This monkey just thinks they are BS, but are probably fit for the purposes of those of those involved in nefarious activities, and some others who value them.

I've seen no response to this so I'm gonna post it again as that article is completely confusing intrinsic value with tangible product. Gold isn't just valuable because you can hold it in your hand...

"Put yourself in the position of a merchant rather than a currency speculator for a minute.

Right now taking payments online is risky business because of credit card fraud, which causes two main problems:

1) Fees charged by services providers are large, taking a big chuck out of your margin as a seller
2) Paying for things online is a pain in the ass due to security measures like 3D secure

With Bitcoin, as a seller you take payment in advance (like cash) so the risk is all on the buyer. Nobody sticks their hand in your bank account to take your money, you only push the credits at the seller. This is good for reliable sellers.

If sellers only accept small amounts of bitcoin in the beginning due to the risk they can set up automated exchanges at the end of the month and get notified of price fluctuations. Then over time they can increase their Bitcoin cashflow as risk is reduced.

At the very least this would put a fire under the established payment processing industry to lower prices to merchants because an alternative exists.

Thus, my view is that a nice parallel equilibrium will ensue with short term fluctuations in the price of Bitcoin causing marginal losses for merchants (crucially, these losses will be less than the cost of traditional payment processing because merchants will have low bitcoin cashflow in the beginning) and long-term fluctuations in the price of bitcoin periodically increasing and decreasing the cost of traditional payment processing.

This just makes sense to me... "

AtomicHorror

Peterdalkey wrote: »

You are perfectly entitled to hold any belief you choose as am I and also to articulate it without being ridiculed as a some sort of a lesser educated baboon.

Hold on a second. You could have said something like "I think this is analogous to the Irish housing bubble for reasons X, Y and Z", but instead you made a sarcastic comment which implied that I am deluded, stupid or lying depending on your views on those who predicted a soft landing for the housing market back in 2007. I called you on it.

Please don't make out that you're being victimised here. Make an argument to support your point instead.

AtomicHorror

Baidu have suspended BTC payments... this will be a serious test.