Neighbour with council house but does not live there!!

billie1b · 26-11-2013 12:53pm

135man wrote: »

Hello all I have a neighbour who has a free council house and is a single woman but does not live there. She lives with her elderly parents who are healthy and do not need caring. They live about a 5 minute walk away and she only goes to the house about 3 times a week and has the lights on a timer and if anyone see's here coming to and from the house she runs as not to be seen. I'd be inclined to report her as there are a lot of young families here in need of housing!!

What are ye'r views thanks.

If you were my neighbour i'd report you for stalking, knowing when my lights turn on/off, when i'm there and how long i'm there and where I come and go from. I think your the one with the problem

Zubeneschamali · 26-11-2013 1:02pm

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Seems like a win for you, no neighbor.

Perhaps the next tenant will be someone who really needs the space.

For their string of drug-addicted boyfriends and their Pit Bull puppy farm.

cali_eire · 26-11-2013 1:06pm

ok .... this conjecture is really starting to annoy me. Did I wake up in a Police state?

Anyway ... lets look at the case at hand (or lack there of)

So Miss Marple's three original posts

"Hello all I have a neighbour who has a free council house and is a single woman but does not live there. She lives with her elderly parents who are healthy and do not need caring. They live about a 5 minute walk away and she only goes to the house about 3 times a week and has the lights on a timer and if anyone see's here coming to and from the house she runs as not to be seen. I'd be inclined to report her as there are a lot of young families here in need of housing!!

What are ye'r views thanks."

"It is a 2 bed bungalow but her parents are living in a house they used to run a b&b from which has 10 bedrooms !"

"She will only go to the house to turn on the tv for about an hour! This woman is driving a 131 car ! I was down with a neighbour who lives across the road from the house and when she came out we she seen us standing outside chatting and bolted a lot of the time during the winter she will not come to the house till it's dark as not to be seen and then the timer comes on and it's like she is at home!!"

Firstly, is the OP the elderly parents doctor? How does she know they are heathy? Sadly I know plenty people with healthy exteriors who aren't so well.

The OP then states that the neighbor goes to the house "about" 3 times a week. How does he/she know? Is the house watched 24/7. And so what she has timers - I have timers and I still live in my house.

Then the OP states the neighbor will go into her house and turn the tv on for a hour. So? I have come home plenty of times for an hour in between stuff to veg for an hour in front of the TV. Then we are told in winter she isnt seen going to the house till after dark - I too am guilty of this terrible crime.

We are also told that the elderly parents "used to run a b&b from which has 10 bedrooms" and that "This woman is driving a 131 car" and "who has a free council house and is a single woman". Obviously, this is about some jealous trip the OP in on and as a result hitting out at this woman. If my house was watched like this I can only imagine the facts the OP would conjure up from my movements.

Rasmus · 26-11-2013 1:17pm

OP you really don't know your neighbour's story - the number of bedrooms etc her parents have has no bearing on her situation.

If you knew that her council house was being sublet, for example, that would be a crime - however you stated this is not the case, she is simply not staying there overnight at the moment.

Chances are though that she is paying high enough rent for her home anyway - if she is stealing into it at night she probably has a job and is being charged for her rent accordingly.

She could very well be taking the p.ss and holding onto the house for a rainy day, but it is not your business nor it is your duty to report it.

runawaybishop · 26-11-2013 1:34pm

Rasmus wrote: »

OP you really don't know your neighbour's story - the number of bedrooms etc her parents have has no bearing on her situation.

If you knew that her council house was being sublet, for example, that would be a crime - however you stated this is not the case, she is simply not staying there overnight at the moment.

Chances are though that she is paying high enough rent for her home anyway - if she is stealing into it at night she probably has a job and is being charged for her rent accordingly.

She could very well be taking the p.ss and holding onto the house for a rainy day, but it is not your business nor it is your duty to report it.

What's the harm in reporting it?

Ray Palmer · 26-11-2013 1:47pm

Rasmus wrote: »

She could very well be taking the p.ss and holding onto the house for a rainy day, but it is not your business nor it is your duty to report it.

Why not? You haven't given any reason for it not being a persons' duty. It is everybody duty to be a good citizen and stamp out corruption and fraud.

Council property is a public resource and how it is used is in the public interest. If we are to take your view we have no right to question TDs expenses, civil service wages or any expenditure by the state.

Rasmus · 26-11-2013 1:53pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Why not? You haven't given any reason for it not being a persons' duty. It is everybody duty to be a good citizen and stamp out corruption and fraud.

Council property is a public resource and how it is used is in the public interest. If we are to take your view we have no right to question TDs expenses, civil service wages or any expenditure by the state.

This view does not reflect those things at all and you are taking quite a leap there in your logic (and assumptions). No surprise so that you think reporting someone on a hunch is ok.

runawaybishop · 26-11-2013 1:54pm

Rasmus wrote: »

No surprise so that you think reporting someone on a hunch is ok.

Why wouldn't it be?

iguana · 26-11-2013 2:08pm

How does the OP know she doesn't come home late at night spend every night there?

djimi · 26-11-2013 2:17pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Why not? You haven't given any reason for it not being a persons' duty. It is everybody duty to be a good citizen and stamp out corruption and fraud.

I must be missing something here, because I see no evidence of corruption or fraud? All that has been described here is a person who does not spend much time at home (for reasons that none of us, the OP included, know of), and a neighbour who has far too much time on their hands and an overly vivid imagination.

Also, where are you getting this notion that she could be "gaining a couple of hundred grand while doing somebody out of needed housing"; gaining a couple of hundred grand how exactly?

ShaShaBear · 26-11-2013 2:25pm

djimi wrote: »

I must be missing something here, because I see no evidence of corruption or fraud? All that has been described here is a person who does not spend much time at home (for reasons that none of us, the OP included, know of), and a neighbour who has far too much time on their hands and an overly vivid imagination.

Also, where are you getting this notion that she could be "gaining a couple of hundred grand while doing somebody out of needed housing"; gaining a couple of hundred grand how exactly?

I think hes trying to suggest that shes saving all this money in the long term by not renting privately. The council housing list is years upon years of waiting. If anyone on that list is in desperate and immediate need of housing, they are in for a long wait regardless of whether or not this woman deserves her house.

My civic duty is to mind me and mine own, not to curtain twitch all day and hit the fraud speed dial on my phone. When I help an old lady across the street or take a lost dog to the vet to be checked for a chip, thats a good deed done as a citizen. I gain happiness and satisfaction from that. I would gain nothing from reporting a lady who I spy on for possibly spending more time looking after her elderly parents than in her council house.
I wasnt aware social housing had a curfew.

jimmycrackcorm · 26-11-2013 2:27pm

MajorMax wrote: »

Snitches get stitches:cool:

Taxpayers get fleeced

Mrs OBumble · 26-11-2013 3:01pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

He should be moved into more suitable accommodation by the council ASAP so that a family can be housed in his former home..

Of course he should. And frankly, the woman who the OP posted about should be in a 1brm too, if she's single and childless. IMHO.

But that's all totally beside the point.

Under Irish law, a person who is allocated a council house is allowed to keep that house until they pop their clogs irrespective of ther on-going housing need or changed circumstances - provided they keep paying the rent and "living" there. "Living" generally means "sleeping" - but remember that not everyone sleeps as much as others at the same time of the day, and some people spend very little time at home. A council tenant who is now working as a travellng sales person, or even just up in Dublin or whatever, may well spend 4-5 nights a week sleeping elsehwere. As may someone who is in hosptial for a long spell.

Apparently ye have some cultural issue with people being forced from their "home" and it's all justified. As a blow-in, I don't get it. But I know that if I want to change the law (and frankly there are others that I have more problems with), then the correct approach is to talk to me TD, not to make my neighbours lives miserable.

stupidpiggy · 26-11-2013 3:06pm

To revert to the OP's initial post...

No, do not report this lady.

1. Unless you actually know this family you have no idea whether her elderly parents are healthy or not. Lots of healthy elderly people need assistance getting around, surely a 10 bedroom house doesn't look after itself.

2. She doesn't have a "FREE HOUSE" People in Social Housing pay rent to the council for the privilege, they also pay electricity and all other utilities.

Why would your neighbour pay a couple of hundred euro a month to maintain a house she doesn't "need" it's of no other value to her other than as a home, if she's happy to live with her parents it would actually make more logical sense for her to give it back. She can't (and isn't) renting it out or profiting from having it in any way.

3. In order to come to your conclusions you really must have been monitoring this woman's behaviour for quite some time, my suggestion would be for you to actually go out and live your own life instead of jumping to false and unfair conclusions about others.

4. As a previous poster suggested - this woman seems like an ideal neighbour. If you did cause her to lose this home and the house was the occupied by less socially adapted people - you would seriously be regretting making that call

runawaybishop · 26-11-2013 3:09pm

stupidpiggy wrote: »

3. In order to come to your conclusions you really must have been monitoring this woman's behaviour for quite some time, my suggestion would be for you to actually go out and live your own life instead of jumping to false and unfair conclusions about others.

Why don't you go out and live your life instead of telling the op to go out and live theirs? Oh right, because its not my place to tell you how to spend your time and its not yours to do the same to the OP. There is nothing unfair about this, reporting it won;t have any impact on them whatsoever unless the council think its suspicious enough to follow up.

Ray Palmer · 26-11-2013 3:12pm

djimi wrote: »

I must be missing something here, because I see no evidence of corruption or fraud? All that has been described here is a person who does not spend much time at home (for reasons that none of us, the OP included, know of), and a neighbour who has far too much time on their hands and an overly vivid imagination.

Also, where are you getting this notion that she could be "gaining a couple of hundred grand while doing somebody out of needed housing"; gaining a couple of hundred grand how exactly?

Again read the thread. I explained how keeping a council house gives you the right to buy which you can then sell or rent out.

What has been described is somebody giving the pretence of living in a house they are not living in. You can easily say it is not the case as the OP doesn't know all the persons coming and goings. As a neighbour without spying on my neighbour I knew when they were there are when they weren't. It is speculation to say the OP is wrong about when the person stays in the house. The OP has a much better knowledge of this than anybody here.

It isn't overly vivid imagination to say you are a ware of a person not living in a house.

If somebody is not living in the house i.e. not sleeping there they are fraudulently claiming housing. No leap being made. Suspicion has been tweaked so report it and let the council investigate if there is a problem. No assumed guilt.

sparkling sea · 26-11-2013 3:23pm

This does seem to be happening alot. Some people apply for local authority houses so they can buy them at a cheap price, they never intend on living in them , they are looking at it as a business opportunity, simple as.

I wouldn't normally suggest reporting anyone but people who do this take a long term view and so should you, if your neighbour has low principles she is unlike to care about who she rents the house too.

It could be the case that your neighbour is frightened living in the house on her own though. She might be afraid or anxious of living on her own, maybe thats why she bolts when she sees people?

D3PO · 26-11-2013 3:32pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

What's the harm in reporting it?

The harm is theres resource issues in regards to investigating possible frauds of the welfare system. Wasting these resources on fanciful at worse and flimsy conjecture at best is a joke.

if you know something is wrong report it, if you have a strong suspicion that something is wrong report it, but just because somebody isn't home often is not a reason to waste resources.

id much rather investigations be done on those that we know are scamming the system and trust me theres plenty out there doing it and doing so flagrantly. lets deal with these people first pefore possibly waiting resources ....

runawaybishop · 26-11-2013 3:41pm

D3PO wrote: »

The harm is theres resource issues in regards to investigating possible frauds of the welfare system. Wasting these resources on fanciful at worse and flimsy conjecture at best is a joke.

if you know something is wrong report it, if you have a strong suspicion that something is wrong report it, but just because somebody isn't home often is not a reason to waste resources.

id much rather investigations be done on those that we know are scamming the system and trust me theres plenty out there doing it and doing so flagrantly. lets deal with these people first pefore possibly waiting resources ....

That's a fair point. But

The resources involved in initially deciding if this needs to be investigated further would be small.

Ray Palmer · 26-11-2013 3:43pm

D3PO wrote: »

The harm is theres resource issues in regards to investigating possible frauds of the welfare system. Wasting these resources on fanciful at worse and flimsy conjecture at best is a joke.

That is simply wrong. At best a fraudster is caught at worst somebody is upset because they are investigated. There is enough there to warrant an investigation the system is designed to check people are correctly availing of services. They rely on the public informing them of suspicions.

Most reporting is done by a friend or family and are generally about revenge, nicer to hear it is a concerned member of the public instead.

D3PO · 26-11-2013 3:51pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is simply wrong. At best a fraudster is caught at worst somebody is upset because they are investigated. There is enough there to warrant an investigation the system is designed to check people are correctly availing of services. They rely on the public informing them of suspicions.

Most reporting is done by a friend or family and are generally about revenge, nicer to hear it is a concerned member of the public instead.

at best a fraudster is caught (unlikely as doesn't sound like fraudlent behavior) at worst resources are wasted and somebody who is very obviously is scamming the system gets to continue doing so as people are spending time looking into the wrong cases.

if we had an army of investigators Id agree go for it. We don't however.

Ray Palmer · 26-11-2013 3:58pm

D3PO wrote: »

at best a fraudster is caught (unlikely as doesn't sound like fraudlent behavior) at worst resources are wasted and somebody who is very obviously is scamming the system gets to continue doing so as people are spending time looking into the wrong cases.

if we had an army of investigators Id agree go for it. We don't however.

That is your complete bias showing through. Somebody has told us they believe somebody is not living in the property and you have decided it isn't good enough.

I deal with the inspectors and they are quite grateful for the information and never tell people not to bother.

So now you know the inspectors don't want information to stop and they don't see it as waste but part of their job. So it is only you who doesn't work in the area that sees it as a waste.

Stella Virgo · 26-11-2013 4:02pm

135man wrote: »

Hello all I have a neighbour who has a free council house and is a single woman but does not live there. She lives with her elderly parents who are healthy and do not need caring. They live about a 5 minute walk away and she only goes to the house about 3 times a week and has the lights on a timer and if anyone see's here coming to and from the house she runs as not to be seen. I'd be inclined to report her as there are a lot of young families here in need of housing!!

What are ye'r views thanks.

get a life you sad pri.k............

D3PO · 26-11-2013 4:22pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is your complete bias showing through. Somebody has told us they believe somebody is not living in the property and you have decided it isn't good enough.

I deal with the inspectors and they are quite grateful for the information and never tell people not to bother.

So now you know the inspectors don't want information to stop and they don't see it as waste but part of their job. So it is only you who doesn't work in the area that sees it as a waste.

Why are you putting words in my mouth ?

I never said the inspectors don't want the information and if you actually read my reasoning as to why I wouldn't report it (potential waste of resources investigating) you would see id fully expect any allegations to be investigated.

what you cant seem to grasp is that there is a finite number of investigators and a lot of fraudulent activity in the system. Id much rather the investigators spend time investigating reported fraudulent activity that is more than just a hunch.

The OP has no evidence of any wrongdoing whatsoever. Id liken it to somebody claiming they believe somebody is working and claiming social welfare because they aren't in their house during the day.

The OP is looking at the fact that the neighbor has a 131 car and assuming they must be doing something dodgy. Why else would they mention it as it has no relevance, nor does their parents owning a 10 bed B&B.

If the OP's post didn't smack of envy and they were actually able to substantiate anything then there might be merit. Im not championing not ratting out welfare cheats id do it in a heartbeat myself.

You call my reasoning fanciful when others are pulling all sorts of crap out of their arses in this thread like maybe its a grow house FFS really.

runawaybishop · 26-11-2013 4:28pm

D3PO wrote: »

what you cant seem to grasp is that there is a finite number of investigators

Whose job it is to decide what is worthy of investigation, there seems to be at least a possibility of fraud, so its worth reporting.

The_Conductor · 26-11-2013 4:34pm

Stella Virgo wrote: »

get a life you sad pri.k............

And have a little holiday Stella Virgo.
Any more personal abuse from anyone else will result in a little holiday from this forum for them too.

Its not hard to be civil towards one another.........

D3PO · 26-11-2013 4:41pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Whose job it is to decide what is worthy of investigation, there seems to be at least a possibility of fraud, so its worth reporting.

everything is worthy of investigation. Its only after investigation you can substantiate if there is something untoward....

Ray Palmer · 26-11-2013 4:41pm

D3PO wrote: »

Why are you putting words in my mouth ?

I never said the inspectors don't want the information and if you actually read my reasoning as to why I wouldn't report it (potential waste of resources investigating) you would see id fully expect any allegations to be investigated.

So you who don't have any dealings with how this is done are telling us it is waste of time and resources. I am telling you as somebody who works with these people they don't see it as a waste of time and resources. Yet you are right and I am putting words in your mouth by noting what you are saying about information being a waste of resources.

Have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

You are more obsessed with the ops comments on the person in question than whether it is valid to inspect somebody who appears not be living in a property.

There is enough there to warrant an inspection and they inspect on much less information. They currently spend a lot of wasted time trawling information to see possible fraudulent behaviour. They are much happier to investigate reported peculiarity and possible fraud.

When suspicious report it, that is it. You are just clinging to yet another excuse not to report based on the fact you don't think anything is wrong or it can be explained away. If it can fine no problem to the person reported and it will take 10 minutes.

D3PO · 26-11-2013 4:45pm

it would be interesting to get the answers to these questions although the OP has gone to ground so we wont

1) Does the OP own their house or is theirs a council house

2) How does the OP know the neighbor is living in their parents ? Unless they are doing drive bys every night I cant see how they can make this claim

3) The OP seems to know a hell of a lot about this neighbor. Including where the parents live, what their business is , their health status. How so ? Ar ethey friends or former friends of the neighbor ? Particularly interested in knowing ar ethey after having a falling out ?

I cant see any fraudulent activity occurring and my reaction based on what the OP has written id have to wonder if their is some history / an axe to grind with the neighbor.

D3PO · 26-11-2013 4:50pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So you who don't have any dealings with how this is done are telling us it is waste of time and resources. I am telling you as somebody who works with these people they don't see it as a waste of time and resources. Yet you are right and I am putting words in your mouth by noting what you are saying about information being a waste of resources.

Have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

You are more obsessed with the ops comments on the person in question than whether it is valid to inspect somebody who appears not be living in a property.

There is enough there to warrant an inspection and they inspect on much less information. They currently spend a lot of wasted time trawling information to see possible fraudulent behaviour. They are much happier to investigate reported peculiarity and possible fraud.

When suspicious report it, that is it. You are just clinging to yet another excuse not to report based on the fact you don't think anything is wrong or it can be explained away. If it can fine no problem to the person reported and it will take 10 minutes.

You claim to know how this works then say this can be sorted in 10 minutes. If you knew anything you would know that it wouldn't be dealt with in 10 minutes. It isn't a case of calling the neighbor and asking them a few questions ....

you also seem to have some comprehension problems. I don't know how much clearer I can be

ID RATHER TIME BE SPENT ON CASES WHERE FRAUD IS VERY EVIDENT. THERE IS PLENTY OF THAT IN THE SYSTEM and its going on at the expense of a lot of nonsense claims being made.

Claims you have in your last post confirmed are happening.

I can understand how you cant get this by the sounds of it you work in the public sector, where the comprehension on how to best utilize resources seems to be an alien concept. SO its not surprising you cant grasp my point of view.

Tell ya what maybe become Six Sigma certified and then tell me what your opinion is.

Neighbour with council house but does not live there!!

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