What are my rights?

Fittle

I bought 2 products at a certain large swedish store, one at 55.00, the other at 17.99, totalling 72.99 one week ago.

I brought them back to the store, having lost my receipt but had the laser card I bought them with. They took them back no problem, (no issue whatsoever with my reason for bringing them back) but said that because I did not have the receipt, their system would only refund me the lowest amount the items were sold at, ever - i.e the 17.99 item was sold for 10e during a sale, the 72.99 item was sold for 40e during a sale.

So the refund (on a store card) they gave me was 40e.

I brought them up my bank statement, showing the date I bought both items - the total was for over 100e, as I had bought a few other items also. I hoped the date I purchased the goods would be enough to prove that I bought them when there was no sale.

They wouldn't scan my laser card at all (other stores have often scanned my laser proving I bought a product at a certain price.)

What are my rights here?

Do I just have to accept a loss of 32.99 for these products, bought one week ago when there was no sale??

coylemj

They could only locate the original transaction by swiping your laser/debit card if they kept the details of your card on file, that in turn would require them to register under the Data Protection Act. It would also mean that they would need to manage a massive database of personal data solely to cater for the one in a thousand case like yours which would not be a practical proposition.

In all the circumstances and in the absence of you saying that the goods were defective, I think they are conceding a lot more than you'd get from other stores without a receipt.

Guy:Incognito

Your rights in this case are pretty much whatever the store choose them to be. They are facilitating you by taking the goods back, which they are not obliged to do.

emeldc

It is also possible that someone could buy the items twice, once at full price and then again at the sale price. That someone returns the sale price items and claims that they were bought at the full price but lost the receipt. Nice profit if you get away with it especially on high priced items. I'm not suggesting you did this but I'm sure you can see why they require the receipt.

micko4

emeldc wrote: »

It is also possible that someone could buy the items twice, once at full price and then again at the sale price. That someone returns the sale price items and claims that they were bought at the full price but lost the receipt. Nice profit if you get away with it especially on high priced items. I'm not suggesting you did this but I'm sure you can see why they require the receipt.

How would that work? You could only return an item once surely with your laser card? So you bring back the cheaper table let's say and get refunded for the more expensive one but your still stuck with another table..say the table was 100 reduced to 50..you've spent 150 on two tables and received 100 back and are minus one table..so a you got a table for 50 which is the same as you would of got in the sale?

emeldc

micko4 wrote: »

How would that work? You could only return an item once surely with your laser card? So you bring back the cheaper table let's say and get refunded for the more expensive one but your still stuck with another table..say the table was 100 reduced to 50..you've spent 150 on two tables and received 100 back and are minus one table..so a you got a table for 50 which is the same as you would of got in the sale?

I think you can see the point I'm trying to make. You wont get the full price for an item without the receipt once i'ts been reduced in the sale. The item could have been bought at the sale price and not the higher price.

DM addict

If you're just bringing them back because you don't like them, rather than a defect or not fit for purpose, then it's wholly at their discretion as to what, if any, refund they give you.

That said, I'd hope that you could reason with them, showing that you bought these two items + XYZ that made for the total that you can prove on your bank statement.

Actually, surely the transaction date on your statement will show when you bought the items and they can therefore refund them at whatever the selling price was on that date?

Fittle

There was absolutely no discussion about why I was bringing the goods back - I wasn't even asked. He asked if I had a receipt, I said no but I had the laser card the items were purchased with etc.

This wasn't about the reason I was returning the goods.

I don't think they would have to 'manage a database of personal information' to cater for my issue. I have exchanged goods before and produced my laser card and there was definitely some type of cross-reference on the system, because I got a full refund (with no receipt) in those instances.

I also thought that my bank statement with the transaction on it from last week, would prove that I only bought them last week - the sale was last June.

DM addict

Well if you can prove you bought them last week, they should be refunding them at the prices bought last week. I understand that they don't have to take them back at all, but their logic for giving you the lower price seems wholly flawed

Fittle

The problem is, the amount on my bank statement is for more than just the two items, because I bought other stuff also. It's just one total on the statement - but I would have thought that they would have a transaction for that amount on my card on that date? Maybe I'm being very naive...

Bepolite

Fittle wrote: »

The problem is, the amount on my bank statement is for more than just the two items, because I bought other stuff also. It's just one total on the statement - but I would have thought that they would have a transaction for that amount on my card on that date? Maybe I'm being very naive...

They probably do, however they are under no obligation to go find it. I'd suggest writing to their head office they might make an exception. Frankly though given no receipt, and assuming no fault they are acting reasonably enough.

Five Lamps

Fittle wrote: »

I bought 2 products at a certain large swedish store, one at 55.00, the other at 17.99, totalling 72.99 one week ago.

I brought them back to the store, having lost my receipt but had the laser card I bought them with. They took them back no problem, (no issue whatsoever with my reason for bringing them back) but said that because I did not have the receipt, their system would only refund me the lowest amount the items were sold at, ever - i.e the 17.99 item was sold for 10e during a sale, the 72.99 item was sold for 40e during a sale.

So the refund (on a store card) they gave me was 40e.

I brought them up my bank statement, showing the date I bought both items - the total was for over 100e, as I had bought a few other items also. I hoped the date I purchased the goods would be enough to prove that I bought them when there was no sale.

They wouldn't scan my laser card at all (other stores have often scanned my laser proving I bought a product at a certain price.)

What are my rights here?

Do I just have to accept a loss of 32.99 for these products, bought one week ago when there was no sale??

This is pretty standard practice in most stores. If you buy something during a sale, they'll only refund you the current price. I suspect that this may have been the same even if you had a receipt. Certainly this has been my experience with a well known UK retailer.

snowey07

Ikea will re-issue receipts if you give them the total, date and card number. Ive done it twice but by email not instore. Ive then gone back with the copy receipt for an exchange

timmy4u2

Under the consumer acts, the latest pertinent act being Consumer Protection Act of 2007 that set up the National Consumer Agency you do not have any conferred rights of return of goods that are being returned just because you changed your mind.
It is entirely at the discretion of the retailer.

I would think that the retailer, having an advertised policy of accepting returns within a stated period against a full refund, and you were aware of that policy and it influenced you in purchasing the item, would be obliged to accept the goods against a full refund of the purchase price in line with the obligations of the retailer to accept the return of faulty or misdescribed goods against a full refund.

For instance Aldi and Lidl advertise a no quibble return of goods within a specified time. When a person decides to purchase such goods they are influenced by the fact that they can return the goods against a full refund.
Just an opinion.
Having reread the OP I assumed on first reading that it was a Sweedish chain in Ireland and my post is based on that assumption.

Bepolite

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Under the consumer acts, the latest pertinent act being Consumer Protection Act of 2007 that set up the National Consumer Agency you do not have any conferred rights of return of goods that are being returned just because you changed your mind.
It is entirely at the discretion of the retailer.

I would think that the retailer, having an advertised policy of accepting returns within a stated period against a full refund, and you were aware of that policy and it influenced you in purchasing the item, would be obliged to accept the goods against a full refund of the purchase price in line with the obligations of the retailer to accept the return of faulty or misdescribed goods against a full refund.

For instance Aldi and Lidl advertise a no quibble return of goods within a specified time. When a person decides to purchase such goods they are influenced by the fact that they can return the goods against a full refund.
Just an opinion.

You're opinion is absolutely correct, however their is an additional element of the OP not having a receipt in this particular instance.

timmy4u2

Bepolite wrote: »

You're opinion is absolutely correct, however their is an additional element of the OP not having a receipt in this particular instance.

Presentation of a receipt is not a condition of an obligation to refund and that is clearly stated.
In fact you could stretch the transaction a little and bring it under the EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive.
If there is no doubt that the goods were bought at the shop in question-and in this instance there is not as they have accepted the goods-they then have to exercise good faith as per the aforementioned directive.
The shop have many ways of checking what stock was sold and when through bar codes, stock assessment etc.

Bepolite

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Presentation of a receipt is not a condition of an obligation to refund and that is clearly stated.
In fact you could stretch the transaction a little and bring it under the EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive.
If there is no doubt that the goods were bought at the shop in question-and in this instance there is not as they have accepted the goods-they then have to exercise good faith as per the aforementioned directive.
The shop have many ways of checking what stock was sold and when through bar codes, stock assessment etc.

They've no obligation to offer a refund however. Therefore they can place any restriction on a refund policy beyond statutory rights that they see fit.

A EU directive would not have direct effect and would have to be incorporated into domestic law to have effect on a private business.

Fittle

She said that when they don't have a receipt, their 'system' defaults to the cheapest price that the products were EVER sold at, in their entire history on sale in that shop.

And they have no way of undoing this, unless I can produce the receipt.

I sent them an email to their customer services dept - I didn't realise they could re-issue a duplicate receipt, but I'll definitely request one.

Their automated email reply was to thank me for my email and to say their reply will be with me in approximately 12 days.

Because it takes 12 days to answer an email...

timmy4u2

Bepolite wrote: »

They've no obligation to offer a refund however. Therefore they can place any restriction on a refund policy beyond statutory rights that they see fit.

A EU directive would not have direct effect and would have to be incorporated into domestic law to have effect on a private business.

You are missing the point.
They have decided to accept the goods against a refund and have gone down that route they are then obliged to implement fair play.
All of this hinges on whether there was a policy that goods could be returned, this policy was known to the consumer and it influenced her decision to buy the goods.
It is obvious that the consumer did not expect that a return meant that you would give the goods back and receive only half the price paid.

To give it its proper title the EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive (Dir 2005/28/EC of 11-5-2005) was brought into Irish Consumer Law by the Consumer Protection Act 2007. So it is enshrined in the Irish law since then.
It is specifically for Business to Consumer transactions and does not concern Business to Business transactions.
It is solely for "domestic Law"

Bepolite

timmy4u2 wrote: »

You are missing the point.
They have decided to accept the goods against a refund and have gone down that route they are then obliged to implement fair play.
All of this hinges on whether there was a policy that goods could be returned, this policy was known to the consumer and it influenced her decision to buy the goods.
It is obvious that the consumer did not expect that a return meant that you would give the goods back and receive only half the price paid.

To give it its proper title the EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive (Dir 2005/28/EC of 11-5-2005) was brought into Irish Consumer Law by the Consumer Protection Act 2007. So it is enshrined in the Irish law since then.
It is specifically for Business to Consumer transactions and does not concern Business to Business transactions.
It is solely for "domestic Law"

You're free to change your mind. Return unused items in their original packaging within 90 days, together with your till receipt, for a full refund.* This policy is in addition to your statutory rights. Your local IKEA store reserves the right to refuse a refund and offer an exchange or IKEA gift card only, if the return criteria is not met.

Emphasis added.

Their policy is clear. Show me where in the CPA they are precluded from offering a refund on the basis they did? If the OP had asked for a gift card / exchange I might buy your assertion.

Hmm seems they did to be fair.

Fittle

timmy4u2 wrote: »

You are missing the point.
They have decided to accept the goods against a refund and have gone down that route they are then obliged to implement fair play.
All of this hinges on whether there was a policy that goods could be returned, this policy was known to the consumer and it influenced her decision to buy the goods.
It is obvious that the consumer did not expect that a return meant that you would give the goods back and receive only half the price paid.

To give it its proper title the EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive (Dir 2005/28/EC of 11-5-2005) was brought into Irish Consumer Law by the Consumer Protection Act 2007. So it is enshrined in the Irish law since then.
It is specifically for Business to Consumer transactions and does not concern Business to Business transactions.
It is solely for "domestic Law"

So do I have to accept their 40e refund, or can I fight for the extra 32.99 given that the goods were in the exact same condition as when I bought them (boxed, unopened etc)

Bepolite

Fittle wrote: »

So do I have to accept their 40e refund, or can I fight for the extra 32.99 given that the goods were in the exact same condition as when I bought them (boxed, unopened etc)

I was under the impression you had already accepted it?

the groutch

any "change of mind" return policies are always conditional on having a receipt.
and it's commonplace for shops both to give a gift card rather than cash/card refund with no receipt, as is doing so at the lower price.
if you had bought only those two items on the day and had the bank statement it might have strenghtened your case slightly, but again they have no legal obligation to give you anything.

Fittle

I have accepted it in that I have gotten the refund card with the 40e on it - but I went back today with my bank statement, hoping I could get them to change their mind.....I didn't know if I had any consumer rights when I was talking to the girl, so just thought I'd come here and ask.

The refund card was issued with a receipt..giving the code numbers of the products etc - when you put the codes into their website, they come up at the prices I paid for them last week...
One of the girls I was dealing with initially, was confused and was actually going to give me the extra money on the refund card - she said when she put the codes in herself, the correct figures came up and she couldn't figure out how I had only been given 40e refund.

Then her supervisor appeared behind her, and pressed some other button (when I said I didn't have a receipt in the original transaction), and obviously, the deductions were made...

Bepolite

the groutch wrote: »

any "change of mind" return policies are always conditional on having a receipt.
and it's commonplace for shops both to give a gift card rather than cash/card refund with no receipt, as is doing so at the lower price.
if you had bought only those two items on the day and had the bank statement it might have strenghtened your case slightly, but again they have no legal obligation to give you anything.

To be fair they aren't until they say they are, which they've done in this case. Their Terms and Conditions also leave something to be desired in drafting as it does not give them an out in relation to non-compliance with the returns policy.

timmy4u2

the groutch wrote: »

any "change of mind" return policies are always conditional on having a receipt.
and it's commonplace for shops both to give a gift card rather than cash/card refund with no receipt, as is doing so at the lower price.
if you had bought only those two items on the day and had the bank statement it might have strenghtened your case slightly, but again they have no legal obligation to give you anything.

This is dealing with one particular store. What other stores do or may do is not relevant.
A store is not obliged to accept a return on change of mind.

If this store had an advertised acceptance of return on change of mind and they have accepted the return of the goods they are then obliged to act fairly under the act which incorporates the EU Directive.

timmy4u2

Fittle wrote: »

So do I have to accept their 40e refund, or can I fight for the extra 32.99 given that the goods were in the exact same condition as when I bought them (boxed, unopened etc)

Only you know how influenced you were by the policy of the store accepting returns and refunds.
I do not think that you expected to get back half of what you paid because the store is not prepared to check back on the easy job of tracking down what you actually paid.

The fact of having no receipt does not come into it now as the store has agreed to take back the goods without the receipt. What is in dispute is what you paid for the goods.

I believe that the store are obliged to implement good faith.

I cannot give you advice on what to do as it could be taken as legal advice and that is not allowed on the Forum.