Replacing oil boiler and other works.

Effects

Oil burner has stopped working so going to replace it. It's in a holiday home so not used much during the week but is occupied 3 out of 4 weekends. Heat is on during the week too so the house isn't left cold all the time Will I see much difference in oil consumption between a condensing and non condensing boiler? There's a single circuit including the coil in the hotpress. Should I take this opportunity to add a minivalve to the hotpress to separate the coil so it doesn't heat the hot water when we aren't there. Another family member thinks the cylinder acts as a rad so good to keep the house warm. I think there was something close to €850 spent on in the past year with an uninsulated attic being a problem too.
Do the SEAI grants cover holidays homes or just principal residences?
Does it make sense to change the pump at the same time? And do I need a special pump to make sure I have a 20° difference in flow and return to make the most of the condensing part. Is an internal stat needed to turn the boiler on and off rather than the stat on the boiler itself?

Effects

Am I right in thinking that a minivalve can be put on the flow into the coil to divert to the return, so cutting out the coil. This would be one of the zones and the rads the other. Heating guy that was supposed to be doing the work isn't SEAI registered and says he doesn't know what their criteria are. Gave us a ballpark figure of €100 a day for labour and the job would only take a day, changing the boiler over that is. Set alarm bells ringing at that price.

Billy Bunting

There should already be a balancing valve on the return from the coil, that could be used to isolate heating the cylinder.
Your looking at spending a hell of a lot of money on a heating system that is rarely used when a good service and good advice is all your need and would save you a fortune.

Effects

Thanks for the reply. A new boiler is definitely needed as the old one is about 25 years old and is an internal boiler placed outside with a case to keep the rain off. I don't think there's a balancing valve on on the coil but I'll double check when I can. I was thinking now that maybe I could put a three way valve on the coil to manually turn the coil off when we are leaving the house. I presume when you mention a good service that would entail a power flush of the system and rebalancing the rads to work optimally with a new condensing boiler? Adding a few TRVs at the same time. Should I add an indoor stat to control the boiler to avoid short cycling?

Effects

So I've been calling a few places and they don't seem to have the Firebird C20 in stock, only the C26. I've calculated I need a 16Kw boiler for a 100sqm bungalow. The C20 has a 15-20Kw output and the C26 has 20-26. Would I be overdoing it if I went with the C26 by sizing my boiler too big for the house?

Billy Bunting

Who did your calculations ?

The C26 is preset at 23kw but that can be tweeted down to 20, these are laboratory performance figures and with the use of a FGA and adjustments to nozzle throughput and the like it maybe possible for the commissioning Engineer to lower that.

Wearb

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Who did your calculations ?

The C26 is preset at 23kw but that can be tweeted down to 20, these are laboratory performance figures and with the use of a FGA and adjustments to nozzle throughput and the like it maybe possible for the commissioning Engineer to lower that.

I think that going outside of specs would lower the seasonal efficiency of the boiler, i.e. lowering the C26 below 20kw would not allow for proper heat transfer, even though you still might get acceptable FGA readings.

Effects

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Who did your calculations?
The C26 is preset at 23kw but that can be tweeted down to 20, these are laboratory performance figures and with the use of a FGA and adjustments to nozzle throughput and the like it maybe possible for the commissioning Engineer to lower that.

I used a UK online calculator based on the size and type of house, windows and insulation. I'm trying to gather enough info as I can so I have a knowledge of what's going on. Is a FGA a completely essential piece of kit or is something only some people use who do the job right? Chadwicks said they could have next day delivery but I found out Firebird have a build time of two days so no way chads would have got it in. Going to order the C20 and have it delivered to the house in Mayo on Monday, then hopefully get it fitted and commissioned between then and Tuesday.
I've got a plumber that was recommended coming to take a look and give me a price on Friday. He doesn't have a power flush pump but he can borrow one so he's going to do that to flush the system out completely. He says it shouldn't be a problem to divert the flow to avoid the coil and I'll get him to put on a few TRVs while he's there to on the rads in the rooms that seem to get too hot sometimes.

Wearb

While it is possible to get boilers up and running the old way, (so many turns of the pump screw and watching for smoke on the air adjustment side) you would be really surprised at how hit and miss this can be. It is a real waste of money to be buying an efficient boiler and not setting it up properly with a FGA and pressure gauge. Besides, you need to have all of this done to get your boiler passport filled in and returned.
This sort of work does (done properly) pay for itself.

agusta

Effects wrote: »

I used a UK online calculator based on the size and type of house, windows and insulation. I'm trying to gather enough info as I can so I have a knowledge of what's going on. Is a FGA a completely essential piece of kit or is something only some people use who do the job right? Chadwicks said they could have next day delivery but I found out Firebird have a build time of two days so no way chads would have got it in. Going to order the C20 and have it delivered to the house in Mayo on Monday, then hopefully get it fitted and commissioned between then and Tuesday.
I've got a plumber that was recommended coming to take a look and give me a price on Friday. He doesn't have a power flush pump but he can borrow one so he's going to do that to flush the system out completely. He says it shouldn't be a problem to divert the flow to avoid the coil and I'll get him to put on a few TRVs while he's there to on the rads in the rooms that seem to get too hot sometimes.

Yes,The fga is essential to use.Firebird require it it to be used to set up the boiler,Did you look at the grant boilers.In my opinion they are a better boiler than the firebird..

jimf

agusta wrote: »

Yes,The fga is essential to use.Firebird require it it to be used to set up the boiler,Did you look at the grant boilers.In my opinion they are a better boiler than the firebird..

+1 on that grant far superior

Effects

Is the price a lot higher as well? It is for a holiday home so won't be used a massive amount so I thought the Firebird might work better on the pocket.

MicktheMan

agusta wrote: »

Yes,The fga is essential to use.Firebird require it it to be used to set up the boiler,Did you look at the grant boilers.In my opinion they are a better boiler than the firebird..

jimf wrote: »

+1 on that grant far superior

I don't want to derail the thread but I heard this more than a couple times now and would appreciate if ye lads in the know would list the pro's/con's on firebird vs grant condensing oil boilers. Cheers

Billy Bunting

Effects wrote: »

Is the price a lot higher as well? It is for a holiday home so won't be used a massive amount so I thought the Firebird might work better on the pocket.

As i said much earlier in the thread your looking at spending a hell of a lot of money on a heating system that is rarely used when a good service and good advice is all you possibly need, questionable IMO whether your new boiler will last long enough for you to re-coop the outlay in savings. .

Effects

Well the burner seems to be completely screwed. Add to that the fact that's it's a 35 year old boiler that was never designed to be used outdoors yet has been outdoors for 20 years. There was €700 on oil spent there last year so while the house isn't lived in Monday to Friday the heating system still gets used a decent amount.

MicktheMan

MicktheMan wrote: »

I don't want to derail the thread but I heard this more than a couple times now and would appreciate if ye lads in the know would list the pro's/con's on firebird vs grant condensing oil boilers. Cheers

Bump - anybody?

shane0007

MicktheMan wrote: »

I don't want to derail the thread but I heard this more than a couple times now and would appreciate if ye lads in the know would list the pro's/con's on firebird vs grant condensing oil boilers. Cheers

It is not fair to both manufacturers, if we list the pro's & con's of each one. Some of us are Service Engineers for the manufacturers.
They are both the top selling boilers both in Ireland & the whole UK. Both are very ahead of their times Irish companies.
Many installers prefer one over the other. It seems to be on a county by county basis.