Paying for clean up time

sozbox

Hi guys,

I own a cafe that closes at 6pm, it usually takes the staff 15 mins to clean up and close up so they usually leave at 6.15pm.

Currently, I pay them until 6pm but they have started asking to be paid until they leave.

What's the best practice in this situation?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Best practice? Paying them until they leave.
If/when you were simply an employee how would you feel working for free?

sozbox

Johnny Electricity wrote: »

Best practice? Paying them until they leave.
If/when you were simply an employee how would you feel working for free?

I take your point and this is my first business.

I've worked in retail for 10 years in various places and I've only ever been paid until the shop closed, if the till was out, if customers stayed late I would not be paid extra.
I want to do the right thing here so appreciate the advice.

yoho139

Dick move from your past employers. I won't pretend to know how much the 15 minutes of pay cost you, but I doubt it's more than the bad will of having your employees work unpaid for those 15 minutes.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Jason1984 wrote: »

I take your point and this is my first business.

I've worked in retail for 10 years in various places and I've only ever been paid until the shop closed, if the till was out, if customers stayed late I would not be paid extra.
I want to do the right thing here so appreciate the advice.

So you're only going on your own experiences. Fair enough.

I'm guessing the staff are on minimum wage, maybe if one person stayed to help you clean up you'd manage it in 15mins? 8.65/4= €2.20 rounding up.

Shouldn't be a huge problem?

betonit

for morale alone pay them, and also for the fact its only right

DubTony

I always paid staff clean up/cash up time. Expecting people to work for nothing is pretty nasty imo. It doesn't stop thousands of retailers from doing it though. I used to have 4 staff working until 10pm. 2 left on the dot of 10 and 2 stayed behind for 15 minutes. If they couldn't get it done in that time it was generally because they were dossing. They got paid for 15 minutes. If they got it done quickly they were ahead.

15 minutes a day, with two staff at a tenner an hour each, costs a fiver. About €1,300 a year. Hardly bank breaking stuff. It's a sandwich a day. If it's a problem paying it, see where you can save at the other end of the day.

Just after I opened my store in 2000, and my deli staff got efficient at opening their section each morning, they had a 10 minute smoke break 20 minutes after coming into work. They'd come back in just as I opened the shop. So instead of them starting 30 minutes before opening, I reduced it to 15. There's always a way to find the money and (hopefully) keep people happy.

Nuttzz

I think paying them until 6.15pm is the right thing to do, I hate shops that are closing before its closing times as the staff want to get out the door. Just make sure that 6.15pm doesnt become 6.30 and so on though

jurez

More than anything else, paying them would be a great gesture. It would show that you value their effort and their commitment.

Take it in with numbers, this would, on a daily basis, cost you additional 3%, but would make a great difference in your relationship.

I'd pay them.

sozbox

Thanks for the replies. Unlike most retailers, I pay them for lunch breaks currently so they are looked after in that regard.
I'm leaning towards paying until 6.15pm but as a poster mentioned I don't want a situation where 6.15 becomes 6.30 etc etc and advantage is taken.

yoho139

Pay them until 6.15 to include clean-up, but not past that?

Gambas

Jason1984 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Unlike most retailers, I pay them for lunch breaks currently so they are looked after in that regard.
I'm leaning towards paying until 6.15pm but as a poster mentioned I don't want a situation where 6.15 becomes 6.30 etc etc and advantage is taken.

I don't think you need worry about that. At the end of the working day most people just want to get away, not wring another 15 mins pay out of it. I'd guess if you suggested that you'd shut up shop at 5:45 and paid them to clean up to 6 they'd be even happier.

ssbob

When I worked in bar's in the past, we would get paid until a certain time, if you went past that cleaning up then it was your tough but if you were earlier than that then you used to get to sit down earlier after a hard day/night on your feet!

Would it be cheaper for you to give them their dinner/lunch than paying them for clean-up?

sozbox

ssbob wrote: »

When I worked in bar's in the past, we would get paid until a certain time, if you went past that cleaning up then it was your tough but if you were earlier than that then you used to get to sit down earlier after a hard day/night on your feet!

Would it be cheaper for you to give them their dinner/lunch than paying them for clean-up?

I already provide their lunch on the house as well as paid breaks all day. To be honest I think I'll pay til 6.15 as I don't want to close up before that. Thanks for all the inputs, it was a surprise to learn I'd been hood winked over the years!

Tails142

I used to get paid for closing up but didn't get paid for lunch... you should make a point that you're being very generous by giving them free lunch on top of paying them during lunch in any case

Stella Virgo

<snip> banned for a month

Peterdalkey

Pity you did not read all the posts, if you had you would know the OP is already paying them for the lunch break, unlike many sectors.

ANXIOUS

Also gives them free lunch..... Idiotic post

SpaceTime

If you don't pay them, expect a half-assed job done on the cleanup. I've seen that in plenty of places.
Everyone will just want to go asap.

ssbob

I think what you have proposed OP is more than fair, ie. paying them for 15 mins clean up. One would hope that your generosity will help with staff retention and not having the need for training up new staff all the time.

For your own sake though please make sure they know who is the boss because you don't want them coming back again looking for more or easing off on their tasks.

Note: For anyone wondering, employees are entitled to 5 mins break for every hour worked so in effect that's 40 mins for 8hrs worked.

sandin

you pay them for their lunch time and also give them free lunch and now they are asking to be paid for a few minutes cleaning up?

They are treating you like a mug.

Join a trade association suitable for your business and get HR advice.

Find out what you have to give them and put that in their contract. Anything extra should be treated as a bonus that can be withdrawn. - What is the typical working shift?

Add up all the paid non-working hours you are giving away each week, multiply this by the cost per hour (inc employer prsi) and multiply by 52.

I bet you'll be shocked at the total.

By being more strict you can afford to reward the better staff with supervisor style positions that give a better rate - but don't be paying lunch time.

However, be mindful you have to pay holiday pay to all staff incl part-time and pro-rata payments for bank holidays e.g. if someone works 2 days a week they get 2/5th of a day pay in lieu of bankholiday etc etc

sozbox

They are paid until closing which is 6pm but the clean-up takes 30 mins usually, I've carried out the tasks myself and verified that it takes between 20-40 mins depending on if we get a last minute customer or not so it's not only a 'few minutes' but rather 30, hence my taking it seriously, if it was 5-10 mins I wouldn't be entertaining the request given I am generous enough already.

I am going to make a call on it over the weekend but am leaning towards a 15min paid clean up time. As you say, we are not obliged to pay for breaks but do as a gesture of appreciation.

Nuttzz

Jason1984 wrote: »

. As you say, we are not obliged to pay for breaks but do as a gesture of appreciation.

Its important they understand that

What about instead of paying them offer them an extra days holidays instead? so if they get 20 days they now get 21 days. this will probably cost you less (15 mins by 48 weeks = 12 hours) and might be better received than an extra 2.15 a week?

mikemac1

ssbob wrote: »

Note: For anyone wondering, employees are entitled to 5 mins break for every hour worked so in effect that's 40 mins for 8hrs worked.

The entitlements are on the citizens information site

The general rule on breaks is that you are entitled to a break of 15 minutes after a 4 ½ hour work period. If you work more than 6 hours you are entitled to a break of 30 minutes, which can include the first 15-minute break. There is no entitlement to be paid during these breaks and they are not considered part of working time.

Shop employees who work more than 6 hours and whose hours of work include 11.30am-2.30pm are entitled to a one hour consecutive break which must occur during those hours.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/rest_periods_and_breaks.html

Nuttzz wrote: »

Its important they understand that

What about instead of paying them offer them an extra days holidays instead? so if they get 20 days they now get 21 days. this will probably cost you less (15 mins by 48 weeks = 12 hours) and might be better received than an extra 2.15 a week?

2.15 per day

fasttalkerchat

Jason1984 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I own a cafe that closes at 6pm, it usually takes the staff 15 mins to clean up and close up so they usually leave at 6.15pm.

Currently, I pay them until 6pm but they have started asking to be paid until they leave.

What's the best practice in this situation?

Hi Jason,

I managed a small corner shop where this was the case. The staff were usually out 10 mins after closing so there were no complaints. The owner thought all was okay. However, what I saw in my time there was that the door was being locked before closing time and customers in the store rushed out the door.
In the end he agreed to pay for 2 members of staff to stay 10 mins and anything additional would be given as a break on the next shift.