Teach creationism in science class - Ulster says no to science

[-0-]

Source: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/party-conference-teach-creationism-in-science-class-40-of-dup-29781222.html

Some 40% of DUP activists believe that creationism should be taught in science classes, a Belfast Telegraph survey has found.

The survey, carried out at the DUP's annual conference, shows a party where the religious right still exercises more influence than in the general population, but where opinion may be broadening.

We surveyed 50 party members, out of just under 300, at the first day of conference at La Mon Hotel on the outskirts of Belfast.

Creationism is the belief that the world, animals and plants were created "by a supernatural being less than 10,000 years ago".

Mainstream science holds that the earth is four and a half billion years old and that life evolved from one-celled organisms.

Some 50% of DUP respondents believed creationism shouldn't be taught in science class, with 10% not knowing and 40% believing it should be there as well as, or instead of, mainstream science.

This may represent a softening of support for controversial creationism within DUP ranks.

On abortion, a subject which also engages religious feelings, 34% regarded it as murder. Asked if abortion should be permitted after counselling, 12% believed a termination should be available to women who wanted one, the most permissive possible position, which was opposed by 78%.

Clear majorities wanted abortion available in special circumstances such as rape or incest (64%), to save the life of the mother (90%), or where the foetus is unlikely to survive birth (58%).

Opinion among DUP delegates was in line with that of delegates at the SDLP's conference.

Edwin Poots, the DUP Health Minister, had the support of 66% for his controversial lifetime ban on sexually active gay men giving blood. The ban was opposed by 28% of DUP delegates with the remaining 6% not giving an opinion.

On more directly political issues none of those surveyed felt recommendations from the Haass process should be accepted in full – 90% felt they should simply be a basis for further discussion.

The DUP currently has one Euro MP and is deciding whether to run a second against Jim Nicholson of the UUP – 56% supported the idea, 24% opposed it and the rest had no opinion.

Peter Robinson, the party leader, received a very healthy approval rating of +92 when delegates were asked to score him. Only 2% felt he had done badly. On the same measure the PSNI scored a worrying low +8.

Delegates were also asked which of a range of rival party leaders and public figures they trusted.

Nobody on the list was trusted by the majority but Basil McCrea of NI21 was trusted by none at all. In contrast Martin McGuinness of Sinn Fein was trusted by 10%, with a couple saying he was the only one they trusted; David Ford of Alliance by 12%; Mike Nesbitt of the UUP was neck-and-neck with Dr Alasdair McDonnell of the SDLP on 6%; and Jim Allister of the TUV fared best with 18%.

Non-party figures were seen as more trustworthy.

Chief Constable Matt Baggott had the confidence of 40%, just ahead of Secretary of State Theresa Villiers, on 36%.

Prospect of fielding second candidate for Europe poses tough questions

The immediate political dilemma for the DUP is whether it should try to finish off the UUP by running two candidates in the European elections or whether it should keep the smaller party on life support.

It requires a short-term solution – the election is next May and a decision will be made in January – but it raises fundamental issues about the party's identity and future.

First, the practicalities. Party number crunchers are looking at the feasibility of ripping the UUP out by the roots. The case in favour is seductive, and they take great comfort from the recent Belfast Telegraph LucidTalk poll which showed the UUP with 10.8% support compared to nearly 30% for the DUP.

"If we can get two candidates with a good geographic spread and manage the vote to keep each of them around 15%, it is just a matter of waiting for Jim Nicholson (the UUP sitting candidate) to drop out," one strategist said. Names are already under consideration, mainly figures from the religious wing of the party. David McIlveen is a favourite, followed by Jonathan Bell, the junior minister, with Jim Wells another possibility.

Getting one of them into Europe alongside Diane Dodds would, it is reckoned, spell swift and terminal decline for the UUP. The once dominant party would then have no MP, no MEPs and, because it depends on European allowances, very little money either.

As the meltdown commenced the DUP could hope to pick off members and support.

In our survey, 56% of DUP delegates favoured two candidates and in his speech Peter Robinson made the case for it. He also heaped praise on Danny Kennedy, the UUP's sole minister at Stormont. There is a clearly a welcome on offer if Mr Kennedy (below) should wish to jump ship to the DUP .

However, fundamentally there is a question about how far and how thinly the DUP's brand can be spread without starting to lose support.

Some fear that broadening the DUP political base could cause difficulties. At conference, one senior DUP figure on the religious right of the party said: "It is tempting to try to destroy the Ulster Unionists." But he added: "Is it really in our interests if we succeed? The UUP is no real threat to us and it is possible to work with them."

He reasoned that there were unionists who would never vote DUP whatever happened and that damaging the UUP further might create an opportunity for some new force.

The DUP is in a powerful position, and it will think long and hard about how it uses it.

Exposes the dark ages mentality of the DUP.

EDIT: TL;DR Ulster says no....to science (Thanks Doctor Jimbob!)

lazygal

This makes me sad.

Nodin

lazygal wrote: »

This makes me sad.

Should be happy. 40% is far less that I would have expected.

Doctor Jimbob

This makes me angry. You can't just offer something you want to believe as an alternative to accepted scientific theory. Creationism has absolutely nothing to do with science. It's a twisting of facts to accommodate religious beliefs. This idea is similar to me claiming that the earths atmosphere is not, in fact, a layer of various gases surrounding our home planet, but occurs as a result of the loving embrace of the space panda.

Nodin

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

This makes me angry. You can't just offer something you want to believe as an alternative to accepted scientific theory. Creationism has absolutely nothing to do with science. It's a twisting of facts to accommodate religious beliefs. This idea is similar to me claiming that the earths atmosphere is not, in fact, a layer of various gases surrounding our home planet, but occurs as a result of the loving embrace of the space panda.

No, for the Panda is papish heresy!!!!!!!!

Sarky

God damn it Northern Ireland. Sort your sh*t out.

Turtwig

Sarky wrote: »

God damn it Northern Ireland. Sort your sh*t out.

Careful now. The situation in the Republic might be bad too.

Doctor Jimbob

May I suggest a suitable 'TL;DR' for the article in the OP? "Ulster says no....to science"

[-0-]

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

May I suggest a suitable 'TL;DR' for the article in the OP? "Ulster says no....to science"

Done.

Nodin

Sarky wrote: »

God damn it Northern Ireland. Sort your sh*t out.

No!!!!!!!!!!

nagirrac

The only glimmer of hope is that this is the DUP we are talking about, not the broader population in Northern Ireland. I would imagine the position of UUP members would be more in tune with science, but have nothing really to base this on. Catholics for all their flaws have no issue accepted evolution, so I can't imagine Jernal there is much of this thinking in the Republic these days.

The question is should this be moved to the Republican fruit cakes thread?

MrPudding

Nodin wrote: »

Should be happy. 40% is far less that I would have expected.

I have to say, I am surprised it is only 40% myself. These guys are serious knuckle draggers.

MrP

Nodin

MrPudding wrote: »

I have to say, I am surprised it is only 40% myself. These guys are serious knuckle draggers.

MrP

Indeed. I would have imagined something in the region of 60% and above. Progress creeps in everywhere eventually, I suppose.

Pherekydes

MrPudding wrote: »

I have to say, I am surprised it is only 40% myself. These guys are serious knuckle draggers.

MrP

Only 50 were surveyed. The standard error would be over 14%.

Also, it's hardly representative of the people of Ulster, as the thread title implies.

"Ulster says no to science" reads like something on the front of the Sun.

MrPudding

Pherekydes wrote: »

Only 50 were surveyed. The standard error would be over 14%.

Also, it's hardly representative of the people of Ulster, as the thread title implies.

"Ulster says no to science" reads like something on the front of the Sun.

This is the most popular political party in the north. The followers are not big readers... I would have to say, I'm afraid, that there is a fairly good chance those views could be echoed by the party faithful, assuming they remembered what a school was...

MrP

Doctor Jimbob

Pherekydes wrote: »

Only 50 were surveyed. The standard error would be over 14%.

Also, it's hardly representative of the people of Ulster, as the thread title implies.

"Ulster says no to science" reads like something on the front of the Sun.

The 'ulster says no to science' part was my fault, I would have thought it was obvious that it was taking the piss a bit. Even so, a fair bit of my family are from the north, and while I think the world of them, they do have a tendency to be quite fanatical in their religious beliefs. My aunt, in an otherwise fairly rational debate told me, with a smug look, that the world was never going to end because "world without end,amen". I assume thats part of a prayer. Says a lot really

Pherekydes

MrPudding wrote: »

This is the most popular political party in the north. The followers are not big readers... I would have to say, I'm afraid, that there is a fairly good chance those views could be echoed by the party faithful, assuming they remembered what a school was...

MrP

Echoed by the party faithful, maybe, but representative of Ulster?

MrPudding

Pherekydes wrote: »

Echoed by the party faithful, maybe, but representative of Ulster?

Not sure to be honest, I have not seen any stats on it. The problem with NI is everything, particularly in some areas, is divided on religious lines. In a "normal" country religion is divided on religious lines (obviously). In Northern Ireland what football team you support, where you shop, what school you go to, who you hang out with, what bars you go to and what political party you support are all divided on religious lines*.

I would suggest that of a study was carried out, which was representative of the voting habits of the population there would be a large enough percentage espousing these views so as to be embarrassing to a native of Northern Ireland, such as myself.

MrP


*Clearly this is not a NI only problem. Some areas of Scotland operate in the same way. It should also be noted that the shopping thing is restricted to certain areas. I appreciate that there are school for different religions in other countries, Ireland included, but NI really do it right.