Arsenal v Marseille

Frank Garrett

Borussia Dortmund 2 - 1 SSC Napoli

Timmyctc

Frank Garrett wrote: »

Borussia Dortmund 2 - 1 SSC Napoli

3-1 now

Frank Garrett

ITV commentator says Arsenal need to lose by 3 goals against Napoli to be knocked out.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

How do you make that out.
Even if we lost to Napoli we have a better goal difference with them.

I'm not sure :P

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure :P

They would have to win by 3 goals to put us out.

AdamD

This is horrid

tayto lover

Someone make me a few sandwiches please.

Pepe LeFrits

Haven't really seen much from Walcott or Cazorla yet this season. Could do with them contributing in this coming busy period.

bad2dabone

tayto lover wrote: »

They would have to win by 3 goals to put us out.

I cant see that happening with this arsenal.

gandalf

AdamD wrote: »

This is horrid

Ah come on its not that bad! We're winning

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

They would have to win by 3 goals to put us out.

If it had stayed 1 goal in it in the other match then them winning the last game by 2 goals would've tied it all up on goal difference and Arsenal likely out if goals scored is the next decider. All fairly tight but the result in the other game tonight looks to be giving a buffer.

Spanish Johnny

AdamD wrote: »

This is horrid

Love having Theo back. Frustrates us all at times but he offers a different dimension. Alot more threatening with him in the side.

bad2dabone

ah man it should have been 5 goals tonight. Not ruthless enough.

Spanish Johnny

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Love having Theo back. Frustrates us all at times but he offers a different dimension. Alot more threatening with him in the side.

And then that happens!!

tayto lover

First free we conceded there by Ramsey I believe.

bad2dabone

AdamD wrote: »

This is horrid

its not all bad - chelsea are getting beaten

gandalf

Comfortable win. We should have scored more.

The good news is Napoli have to attack us in Italy which is playing into our strengths. Walcott has to be fit for that game. Hit them on the counter

bishopmuzorewa

Crazy stuff..arsenal could go out on 12 points and Chelsea have now qualified with 9 points.

tayto lover

bishopmuzorewa wrote: »

Crazy stuff..arsenal could go out on 12 points and Chelsea have now qualified with 9 points.

Shut up.

DubDani

Assuming today's results stay as they are and assuming that Napoli win against Arsenal in the last game it would come down to the following rules:

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings (in descending order):
a) higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the
teams in question;
b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams
in question;
c) higher number of goals scored in the group match es played among the
teams in question;
d) higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches
played among the teams in question;
e) if, after having applied criteria a) to d), two teams still have an equal
ranking, criteria a) to d) are reapplied exclusivel y to the matches between
the two teams in question to determine their final rankings. If this
procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria f) to h) apply;
f) superior goal difference from all group matches played;
g) higher number of goals scored from all group matches played;
h) higher number of coefficient points accumulated by the club in question,
as well as its association, over the previous five seasons (see
paragraph 9.02).

After today the results between the three teams are equaling to

Dortmund 6 - 5
Napoli 3 - 6
arsenal 4 - 2

So it is my understanding that if Dortmund win in Marseille they are through for sure. If Napoli wins by one or 2 goals Dortmund will top the group with Arsenal being second, if Napoli wins by 3 they will come second behind Dortmund. If they win by 4 they will top the group with Dortmund being second.

cson

Never got out of 3rd gear for Soton and tonight but never looked like getting anything less than 3 points in both. That's heartening to see but also cautioning as we'll have to raise it for the bigger teams.

wonderfullife

bishopmuzorewa wrote: »

Crazy stuff..arsenal could go out on 12 points and Chelsea have now qualified with 9 points.

yeah but the chances of Napoli stuffing Arsenal by 3-0 are slim and none. Gunners through.

Spanish Johnny

Can Arsenal lose by 1 in Naples and top the group??

(Taking it for granted Dortmund reach 12 points)

DubDani

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Can Arsenal lose by 1 in Naples and top the group??

(Taking it for granted Dortmund reach 12 points)

Only if the end result is 4-3 or higher.

1-0, 2-1 and 3-2 for Napoli would all mean Dortmund tops the group (assuming they win in Marseille, of course).

batistuta9

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Can Arsenal lose by 1 in Naples and top the group??

(Taking it for granted Dortmund reach 12 points)

if the lost 3-2 or a greater one goal defeat i think they would

DubDani

batistuta9 wrote: »

if the lost 3-2 or a greater one goal defeat i think they would

4-3 they would. With a 3-2 Dortmund would still top the group. They would both have 6-5 goals in the matches between those teams, which would mean it goes to head to head comparison, which Dortmund wins due to having scored more at Arsenal then Arsenal did at Dortmund.

batistuta9

DubDani wrote: »

4-3 they would. With a 3-2 Dortmund would still top the group. They would both have 6-5 goals in the matches between those teams, which would mean it goes to head to head comparison, which Dortmund wins due to having scored more at Arsenal then Arsenal did at Dortmund.

no, i think 3-2 would do it

they take all three teams into consideration from the off
1) pts - all 3 would have six points
2) GD - arsenal 1, dortmund 1, napoli -2

putting napoli in third

re-do it with arsenal & dortmund and at tiebreaker 3 goals scored:
arsenal 7, dortmund 6

meaning arsenal finish first

EDIT: re-do should mean continue on

DubDani

batistuta9 wrote: »

no, i think 3-2 would do it

they take all three teams into consideration from the off
1) pts - all 3 would have six points
2) GD - arsenal 1, dortmund 1, napoli -2

putting napoli in third

re-do it with arsenal & dortmund and at tiebreaker 3 goals scored:
arsenal 7, dortmund 6

meaning arsenal finish first

I know it is only nitpicking, but the Uefa Rules state:

e) if, after having applied criteria a) to d), two teams still have an equal
ranking, criteria a) to d) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between
the two teams in question to determine their final rankings.

So if Arsenal and Dortmund both have a GD of 6-5 it would next be the Head to Head between Dortmund and Arsenal, which Dortmund wins due to the Away goals.

Spanish Johnny

batistuta9 wrote: »

no, i think 3-2 would do it

they take all three teams into consideration from the off
1) pts - all 3 would have six points
2) GD - arsenal 1, dortmund 1, napoli -2

putting napoli in third

re-do it with arsenal & dortmund and at tiebreaker 3 goals scored:
arsenal 7, dortmund 6

meaning arsenal finish first

EDIT: re-do should mean continue on

Jaysis!! Lets just do Napoli on the counter and win/draw then!

batistuta9

DubDani wrote: »

I know it is only nitpicking, but the Uefa Rules state:

e) if, after having applied criteria a) to d), two teams still have an equal
ranking, criteria a) to d) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between
the two teams in question to determine their final rankings.

So if Arsenal and Dortmund both have a GD of 6-5 it would next be the Head to Head between Dortmund and Arsenal, which Dortmund wins due to the Away goals.

after tiebreaker 3 there'd be no need to continue

where are you getting the 6 and 5?

DubDani

batistuta9 wrote: »

after tiebreaker 3 there'd be no need to continue

where are you getting the 6 and 5?

If Arsenal looses 3-2, Dortmund and Arsenal both end the 4 games between these 3 teams with 6-5 goals.

Arsenal 6-5
Dortmund 6-5
Napoli 6-8

So it means Arsenal and Dortmund are through, but to determine who wins the group they need to go further. Rule D will again be a tie as Arsenal and Dortmund both scored 3 away within those 4 matches. That means Rule E comes in play, the head to head between Dortmund and Arsenal, which Dortmund wins due to scoring twice at the Emirates vs. Arsenal scoring once in Dortmund.

batistuta9

DubDani wrote: »

If Arsenal looses 3-2, Dortmund and Arsenal both end the 4 games between these 3 teams with 6-5 goals.

Arsenal 6-5
Dortmund 6-5
Napoli 6-8

So it means Arsenal and Dortmund are through, but to determine who wins the group they need to go further. Rule D will again be a tie as Arsenal and Dortmund both scored 3 away within those 4 matches. That means Rule E comes in play, the head to head between Dortmund and Arsenal, which Dortmund wins due to scoring twice at the Emirates vs. Arsenal scoring once in Dortmund.

right i get you now

do they definitely continue using the three teams once ones positions is determined do you know?
i think it does but i'm not 100% sure