Stopped by Gards..... Quick question.

Banjo String

djimi wrote: »

With the way the law is currently, its a risk to scratch your ear while driving in case the wrong person sees you...

Actually. The more and more I go over this in my mind, I'm convinced that's what he actually did see, or sometimes I tend to drive with one elbow on drivers window, right hand up to head. (slouch I suppose).


I'll keep the thread updated as to if /when I receive a fine.

Still miffed (and no answers) as to how he could rhyme my full southern address off to me from my northern license. Finished with a warning that I should give my 'proper' address to Gardai in future. (I've addresses both sides of the border)

Thomas D

Supergurrier wrote: »

His word against yours unfortunately.

Seems you just met a thick hard a on a bad day.

Which will go in your favour. Go to court and say you weren't using it. Tell the truth and seek justice.

Thomas D

djimi wrote: »

While I agree with you in principle, the problem is that in court it will be the word of two Gardai against the word of the accused, and quite frankly you aint winning that one.

Its why I firmly believe that this is a law that needs changing. There is no way that the Gardai should be able to convict on the word of what they thought they saw, not without some sort of physical evidence. With the way the law is currently, its a risk to scratch your ear while driving in case the wrong person sees you...

Some people here know very little about what happens in a court room. A gards word is worth no more than your own. Judges actually like to make things as hard as possible for them. Take a picture of your bluetooth set. Bring it in.
You've a 50% chance of them not turning up and about a 99% chance of only one turning up.

guil

God knows how many times I've posted this but the same thing happened me a few years ago. Driving a truck and was approaching a female guard who pulled in a car. She stands up and beckoned me to stop and said I was on the phone. I had my right hand against the pillar and my head resting in my hand.

No way was she believing me even though I offered my work and personal phone to her. After I received the fine I rang her and she basically said tough go to court. Got a solicitor at a cost of €250 and 3 days in court with her not showing up on any day. The judge asked how did I plead and some guard said he was instructed to withdraw the charge.

Thomas D

guil wrote: »

God knows how many times I've posted this but the same thing happened me a few years ago. Driving a truck and was approaching a female guard who pulled in a car. She stands up and beckoned me to stop and said I was on the phone. I had my right hand against the pillar and my head resting in my hand.

No way was she believing me even though I offered my work and personal phone to her. After I received the fine I rang her and she basically said tough go to court. Got a solicitor at a cost of €250 and 3 days in court with her not showing up on any day. The judge asked how did I plead and some guard said he was instructed to withdraw the charge.

You shouldn't have bothered getting a solicitor? Why did the case take 3 days? Should have been struck out after the first no show.

Fred Swanson

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guil

It was in naas district court. Judge Zaidan goes to town on motoring offences so I was looking at a fine of over €500. Dunno why but had to go back until the third time he got pissed off and wanted to settle it. The minimum fine he issued was €400 for no tax.

Banjo String

guil wrote: »

God knows how many times I've posted this but the same thing happened me a few years ago. Driving a truck and was approaching a female guard who pulled in a car. She stands up and beckoned me to stop and said I was on the phone. I had my right hand against the pillar and my head resting in my hand.

No way was she believing me even though I offered my work and personal phone to her. After I received the fine I rang her and she basically said tough go to court. Got a solicitor at a cost of €250 and 3 days in court with her not showing up on any day. The judge asked how did I plead and some guard said he was instructed to withdraw the charge.

How can I ring the gard who stopped me today? Will his details be on the fine?

Must say, I'm pleasantly surprised at the support shown on this thread. Sincerely believed I would have had doubters.

Fred Swanson

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guil

Banjo String wrote: »

How can I ring the gard who stopped me today? Will his details be on the fine?

Must say, I'm pleasantly surprised at the support shown on this thread. Sincerely believed I would have had doubters.

Yes i think there is a number on the fine. Ring that and you will get the guards name and station he is based in.

Thomas D

Banjo String wrote: »

How can I ring the gard who stopped me today? Will his details be on the fine?

Must say, I'm pleasantly surprised at the support shown on this thread. Sincerely believed I would have had doubters.

Don't bother ringing them. I was up in court for no tax. I turned up. Garda turned up. Told them I had tax in the post (no evidence of this). Judge didn't care, said grand and struck the case out. Same for a speeding offence.

Fred Swanson

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guil

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The Kildare circuit routinely reverses Judge Zaidan's rulings.

Didn't know that but then again I probably would have paid more on solicitors between the two.

Fred Swanson

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guil

Fred Swanson wrote: »

For sure.

But if it meant keeping your licence and your job, it is well worth it.

True but thankfully all it cost was the €250 for the solicitor and I used holidays for the three days off. Come to think of it, it was November 2009.

Markcheese

Got pulled over a few year ago for literally scratching my head,the trafic Corp gard who thought he saw me with the phone to my ear was pig ignorant.
I was planning for my day in court (didn't pay the fine) when I got pulled for speeding (which I did do) was bricking it now cause the points starting to add up... Never heard anymore about the phone case...
Reckon the go safe camera vans
could be used for phone offences
,there's usually a pretty clear picture of
the driver and the reg...and there is staff watching the screens so could

naughtysmurf

Cabaal wrote: »

phone bill records will show if you sent any texts or made any calls,

However the phone bill records won't show inbound stuff, this will only be on the phone and can easily be modified (deleted) so not sure how accepting a court may be of it.

This is a data protection issue, you are only entitled to outgoing stuff as that's yours, incoming stuff doesn't belong to you unless you are roaming funnily enough as you pay for some of it, it's other peoples data, you would probably have to get a warrant issued by a judge to get that incoming data,

I feel your pain op but would probably just pay the fine as sick as it would make me to do it

vibe666

dashcam is yer man there. recording audio as well as video, even if you only have it pointing out of the windscreen and not into the cabin.

if/when you get pulled, you know it's there, but likelihood is he won't until you tell him, so show them that you weren't doing what they claim you were, go through all the motions and if they don't back down ask leading questions about them lying and would they be willing to lie in court etc. etc. which may result in treats of more trumped up charges and so on and so forth.

then take your pick of either explaining that you have recorded them and will happily show it as evidence in court if they wish, or just say nothing and actually DO go to court and show it as evidence of your innocence and their corruption.

and print off this thread too, so the judge knows it happens pretty regularly. maybe even invite a reporter or two. the hacks at the indo seem to have feck all new to report on going by some of the stuff they print so i'd say they'd be delighted for a bit of excitement. :pac:

Banjo String

vibe666 wrote: »

dashcam is yer man there. recording audio as well as video, even if you only have it pointing out of the windscreen and not into the cabin.

if/when you get pulled, you know it's there, but likelihood is he won't until you tell him, so show them that you weren't doing what they claim you were, go through all the motions and if they don't back down ask leading questions about them lying and would they be willing to lie in court etc. etc. which may result in treats of more trumped up charges and so on and so forth.

then take your pick of either explaining that you have recorded them and will happily show it as evidence in court if they wish, or just say nothing and actually DO go to court and show it as evidence of your innocence and their corruption.

and print off this thread too, so the judge knows it happens pretty regularly. maybe even invite a reporter or two. the hacks at the indo seem to have feck all new to report on going by some of the stuff they print so i'd say they'd be delighted for a bit of excitement. :pac:

Hi Vibe, Some great ideas here (especially printing off this thread) but I think a recording of an individual cant be uised unless you tell them beforehand.

I think thats why all the warnings on help lines notify you that calls may be recorded.

(could be completely wrong though, but something about that rings a bell)

Edit, could I actually fib to the gard that I have a dash cam fitted? See if he backs down? (assuming anything comes off this)

Fred Swanson

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Banjo String

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Thanks for that Fred.

Reckon the 'calling his bluff' would further my cause???

challengemaster

Banjo String wrote: »

Hi Vibe, Some great ideas here (especially printing off this thread) but I think a recording of an individual cant be uised unless you tell them beforehand.

There's (generally speaking) no expectation to privacy in public areas. Hence you can legally record pictures/video of anyone in public and nobody has any right to stop you.

guil

Audio recording would prove nothing. The offence isn't using the phone. It's holding it. Unless you put a camera on the far side of the dash pointing at you there is SFA you can do to prove you weren't holding the phone.

dr.fuzzenstein

Banjo String wrote: »

Thanks for that Fred.

Reckon the 'calling his bluff' would further my cause???

It would probably cause him to dig in deeper. The problem with bullies is not that they're cowards but come back at you more aggressive the more you confront them.
He's backed himself into a corner and can't admit he's wrong cause he's a cop.
Say nothing and go to court, its possible he gets bored and just won't bother his arse turning up. But also likely he'll fight it to the last out of sheer spite.

Fred Swanson

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Thomas D

guil wrote: »

Audio recording would prove nothing. The offence isn't using the phone. It's holding it. Unless you put a camera on the far side of the dash pointing at you there is SFA you can do to prove you weren't holding the phone.

Another that completey misunderstands the fundamentals of the irish legal system. You don't have to prove your innocence. Your guilt has to be proven. There is no jury so the garda has to convince the judge but every bit of evidence you present will help you.

Fred Swanson

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Mycroft H

guil wrote: »

Audio recording would prove nothing. The offence isn't using the phone. It's holding it. Unless you put a camera on the far side of the dash pointing at you there is SFA you can do to prove you weren't holding the phone.

It's not like the UK where specifically the offence is to operate the mobile phone. It's pretty watertight here where you only have to be holding the phone and nothing more.

Unless you've anything to prove that you weren't holding the phone at the time you're going to end up with four penalty points on your licence which could start to affect your insurance if you've some already. It will be only two on paying the fixed notice.

Sam Kade

You can't even scratch your ear now while driving :mad: I see people making full blown conversations while driving every day but the Gardaí never seem to catch them :mad:

Thomas D

Mycroft H wrote: »

It's not like the UK where specifically the offence is to operate the mobile phone. It's pretty watertight here where you only have to be holding the phone and nothing more.

Unless you've anything to prove that you weren't holding the phone at the time you're going to end up with four penalty points on your licence which could start to affect your insurance if you've some already. It will be only two on paying the fixed notice.

You have your witness testimony. Look at the judge and tell him the truth. If it goes against you appeal. Do not bother hiring anyone. Yourself, your word and the truth are all that you need.

Banjo String

Mycroft H wrote: »

It's not like the UK where specifically the offence is to operate the mobile phone. It's pretty watertight here where you only have to be holding the phone and nothing more.

Unless you've anything to prove that you weren't holding the phone at the time you're going to end up with four penalty points on your licence which could start to affect your insurance if you've some already. It will be only two on paying the fixed notice.

I've a northern license so the points can't be applied.

It's more than 80 euro though at this stage. Principle now too.

guil

Is it not still €80 and 2 points for holding a phone?

Fred Swanson

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dgt

As others have said, its not just using the phone that will get you fined but even just holding it while moving

listermint

djimi wrote: »

While I agree with you in principle, the problem is that in court it will be the word of two Gardai against the word of the accused, and quite frankly you aint winning that one.

Its why I firmly believe that this is a law that needs changing. There is no way that the Gardai should be able to convict on the word of what they thought they saw, not without some sort of physical evidence. With the way the law is currently, its a risk to scratch your ear while driving in case the wrong person sees you...

On the proviso that they show up. This doesnt happen alot of the time tbh. and two of them certainly wont be there anyway.

mitosis

Sam Kade wrote: »

You can't even scratch your ear now while driving :mad: I see people making full blown conversations while driving every day but the Gardaí never seem to catch them :mad:

If one in every ten motorists is on the phone, how can you expect to see every one of them caught? They catch thousands every month

grainnewhale

Its a rare occasion that you meet a garda car where the driver is not on a phone.

Fred Swanson

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winnie the schtink

i hope you asked him were his parents married:pac:

dr.fuzzenstein

winnie the schtink wrote: »

i hope you asked him were his parents married:pac:

No, that's related...

grainnewhale

OSI wrote: »

Yes, they are allowed to use them in the course of duty.

Well for starters, there is usually 2 gardai in any car so if it was work related, then surely the passenger should be fielding the call. Regardless of all this either its safe to use a phone while driving or it's not. Would I feel any better if the driver who hit me because they weren't concentrating, due to being on the phone, was a member of the gardai.

Sam Kade

mitosis wrote: »

If one in every ten motorists is on the phone, how can you expect to see every one of them caught? They catch thousands every month

Who said I expect to see them caught? It's in a town with a garda station mostly same offenders. If you were only caught once and fined with penalties you wouldn't be in a hurry to re offend

Mycroft H

OSI wrote: »

Yes, they are allowed to use them in the course of duty.

Fire and Ambulance too.

TheNog

Sam Kade wrote: »

You can't even scratch your ear now while driving :mad: I see people making full blown conversations while driving every day but the Gardaí never seem to catch them :mad:

If I could bring you into work with me you would quickly see why not as many people are caught compared to the amount of people actually doing it. When you drive a normal marked patrol car most people obviously are awake enough to see the car from a distance. Everyday I see people adjusting themselves in their seat, dropping their hand from their head towards their lap, adjusting their driving behaviour etc. it's rare someone will drive by me still on the phone cos they didn't see me.

However when I get into my own car to go home I see loads of drivers on the phone.

grainnewhale

TheNog wrote: »

If I could bring you into work with me you would quickly see why not as many people are caught compared to the amount of people actually doing it. When you drive a normal marked patrol car most people obviously are awake enough to see the car from a distance. Everyday I see people adjusting themselves in their seat, dropping their hand from their head towards their lap, adjusting their driving behaviour etc. it's rare someone will drive by me still on the phone cos they didn't see me.

However when I get into my own car to go home I see loads of drivers on the phone.

Nothing surprising there.

ninty9er

BMJD wrote: »

Also, don't call a Garda a liar. Ever.

You can, especially if you make a serious allegation to their superior. Gardaí are normal people and are no more entitled to be rude to, or belittle their customers than a checkout assistant in Centra.

Banjo String wrote: »

I've a northern license so the points can't be applied

If at any point you have to switch (i.e. after 12 months residency a non- Irish driving licence is invalid, so you could be done for driving without a licence), the points will be there waiting for you on your newly issued Irish licence.

grainnewhale

ninty9er wrote: »

You can, especially if you make a serious allegation to their superior. Gardaí are normal people and are no more entitled to be rude to, or belittle their customers than a checkout assistant in Centra.



If at any point you have to switch (i.e. after 12 months residency a non- Irish driving licence is invalid, so you could be done for driving without a licence), the points will be there waiting for you on your newly issued Irish licence.

Your licence is valid till it expires.

ninty9er

grainnewhale wrote: »

Your licence is valid till it expires.

You might want to check that. If you are resident in Ireland more than 12 months, a foreign driving licence is invalid if you want to become technical about it. Your insurance company can (and probably should) refuse to cover you, however they are in the business of making money so turn a blind eye.

I was examined on this by a risk underwriter on Tuesday.

Fred Swanson

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ninty9er

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Not all foreign licences are EU licences. I work for a company that doesn't allow driving of company vehicles on a non-Irish licence after a reasonable (3month) timeframe to swap.