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Starbucks opening left, right and centre!!

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    #122
    Halloween Jack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Halloween Jack


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    From what I know there was no new lease offered and that would have been clear months beforehand.

    I not getting at you, but the general attitude of some people in the area was that "landlord was unfair", "rent was to double" "no support to small guy" etc etc. all of which was totally incorrect but people like to bash "nasty landlords" because its a fashionable thing to do. (no I'm not a landlord, I'm a leaseholder).

    Fair enough. I guess the reaction is due to the fact that people make emotional connections to local businesses. People liked the proprietor and his product and supported him and his staff accordingly. These are the things we lose to the chains.


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    #123
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Halloween Jack wrote: »
    Fair enough. I guess the reaction is due to the fact that people make emotional connections to local businesses. People liked the proprietor and his product and supported him and his staff accordingly. These are the things we lose to the chains.

    100% agree and I reckon he'll find a new and better place.


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    #124
    wordofwarning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭wordofwarning


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Inappropriate comparison.... I would agree with you 100% if we're talking about the likes of Intel or Oracle.
    But, do Starbucks have factories here which are exporting products to other countries? They are not Intel. The reason we want Intel here is because if they weren't here, that commercial activity would not happen, the jobs currently in ireland would be elsewhere... None of this applies to Starbucks.

    A strategy that makes sense for MNCs engaged in manufacturing, research, development, production doesn't mean it makes sense for MNCs engaged in retail (or services).

    Are you aware that Google, Oracle, Facebook, Microsoft etc etc are all services companies? Most of the tech is developed in India or the US.

    In a trade war, you can't pick and mix what you like. You can't say "God, I love all the Intel jobs, but I don't want Starbucks here as they are retail jobs that are low value. Therefore we should kick out Starbucks and keep the Intel jobs". The US would then penalise Irish firms in the US, then we penalise US firms etc. You get the picture.

    In 2017, you can't say "I love free trade, as long as it only benefitting Ireland". I'm sorry, but that is not how free trade works.


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    #125
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,170 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    wordofwarning wrote: »
    Are you aware that Google, Oracle, Facebook, Microsoft etc etc are all services companies? Most of the tech is developed in India or the US.

    In a trade war, you can't pick and mix what you like. You can't say "God, I love all the Intel jobs, but I don't want Starbucks here as they are retail jobs that are low value. Therefore we should kick out Starbucks and keep the Intel jobs". The US would then penalise Irish firms in the US, then we penalise US firms etc. You get the picture.

    In 2017, you can't say "I love free trade, as long as it only benefitting Ireland". I'm sorry, but that is not how free trade works.

    We don't value Intel, Oracle, Microsoft, Facebook, Google etc because of the services, but because of the jobs they employ here.
    Jobs which would not exist if they weren't here. That doesn't apply to Starbucks.
    We could turn around tomorrow and step back from our favourable MNCs policy to tech companies - and none of that would lead to a trade war with the US because those arrangements are not about trade with the US. Those MNCs are here to trade with the EU.
    France, Britain, Spain, Italy... these countries are not in a trade war with the US, yet they don't have the favourable policy we have towards tech MNCs.

    ANd I love free trade but free trade has nothing to do with the tax arrangements of MNCs operating retail outlets here. In fact, it has nothing whatsoever to do with trade because Starbucks are not trading from America with Ireland.

    I never said we should kick Starbucks out, but Starbucks should compete on a level playing field with indigenous retail outlets at a legal and tax level. If Starbucks can bring economies of scale to bear at a retail level in terms of soucing ingredients and advertising, fair play to them. Our MNC policy is about getting them to operate from Ireland, not to trade between Ireland and the US.

    So please enlighten us as to why clamping down on Starbucks tax arrangements as a retail outlet would lead to a trade war between Ireland the US, given that when I buy a Starbucks coffee in Dublin there is no cross border trade.
    Trump's retaliation by clamping down on Insomnia's expansion into the US will be devatasting to the Irish economy, no doubt.
    If Starbucks have developed a transporter technology in Ireland which means that when I order a latte it's actually roasted and brewed in Seattle and immediately teleported to my location, I withdraw all my previous remarks.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #126
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭bren2002


    Caliden wrote: »
    Sad thing is that there's a bigger Starbucks just further up on Waterloo road. It's a 600 meter walk away...

    But that's a mile round trip.


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    #127
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Sadness sweeps over me when I see tourists in the windows of a starbooks


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    #128
    roycon111
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭roycon111


    A few points of note

    1. Multinationals do not have any different tax or legal treatment to Irish coffee shops - tax is paid at 12.5% on corporation tax
    2. All coffee has to be imported as it cannot grow in Ireland
    3. Starbucks does not operate from Ireland there are only franchises which are owned by two individuals using the brand.
    4. Ireland, of all countries in the world has probably gained the most from free trade from its previous position.
    5. Countries do not have nationalities and are not people. Paddy Power is a public company mostly owned by PE and Mutual funds from all over the world and the same can be said for Starbucks. To be getting caught up in some sort of nationalist fervor for a company that you believe is Irish is just embarrassing
    6. Starbucks was once one "independent" shop as well
    7. Starbucks is disgusting and no doubt the people who are complaining about it here are the ones who go there


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    #129
    PopTarts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭PopTarts


    There's 4 or 5 in Blanchardstown Centre.

    All seem to do relatively well.


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    #130
    ScottSF
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ScottSF


    Mr.S wrote: »
    How can a Starbucks fit in that Kiosk?

    Prime location though, I'd say it will make a killing with all the offices around and the many new developments in the area.

    Hopefully not! The Silverskin coffee roasting kiosk had a loyal clientele, many who were on a first name basis, for many years. If they are smart they'll not give their money to Starbucks. I won't. We can only vote with our wallets and go elsewhere for coffee from Irish local businesses that care about the community.

    For those of you who think so many Starbucks opening up in every corner of Dublin is a good idea (or are simply pro free market), consider the parallel to restaurants. What if every street had one or two American restaurant chains instead of a local restaurant. I'm talking about Olive Garden, Panera, Ruby Tuesday, Sizzler, Red Lobster, ... I don't think many of us would be happy with that, but it does happy in many U.S. suburban areas that turn into cookie-cutter copies of each other. Some smart cities pass laws that limit the number of chains that can operate which helps preserve the diversity of local businesses.


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