Andy Lee

Andy Lee comes across as one of the nice guys in boxing and a hard worker.
Really great that he got a few breaks (and maybe was a bit fortunate against Jackson) to get another shot at a title, albeit not the premier belt and then took the chance.
Hope that he gets the opportunity to make some decent money now.

unknown13

I hope Warren and Booth sit down and come to an agreement about this fight and put this in the 3 arena. Warren has BJS and Stephen Ormond, who would be a natural choice for the co-main slot. There is potential for a good card and I don't believe BJS is a big ticket seller in London either to warrant the fight in London.

Sure, Frankie Gavin's parents are Irish also. He would want to fight on the bill, add in Steve Collins jr to the list.

Henno30

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Would still like to see Macklin vs Andy in the o2. It would be a decent scrap.

Lee needs to think very carefully about his next moves. A lot of very ordinary fighters could beat him. He needs to set himself, i.e. get paid, over the next year to eighteen months.

magma69

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Would still like to see Macklin vs Andy in the o2. It would be a decent scrap.

Why would you like to see him fight a guy who just got a hiding from a gatekeeper? Bizarre.

N'Jikam, Geale, Quillin, Jacobs, Lemieux would be decent scraps.

walshb

Maybe because it would be a good scrap/clash of styles. Lee is not somehow clearly superior to Macklin. Both IMO are at at a similar level.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

Maybe because it would be a good scrap/clash of styles. Lee is not somehow clearly superior to Macklin. Both IMO are at at a similar level.

Macklin is shot. Did you not see his last fight? Lee would destroy that version of Macklin. You're talking as if it was the Macklin of a few years ago.

walshb

magma69 wrote: »

Macklin is shot. Did you not see his last fight? Lee would destroy that version of Macklin. You're talking as if it was the Macklin of a few years ago.

I did see the fight. Macklin was poor. If he is so shot, then maybe Lee should call him out for an "easy" first defence. Guaranteed to be hyped and sold as some world event. Would be a big seller here in Ireland.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

I did see the fight. Macklin was poor. If he is so shot, then maybe Lee call him out for an "easy" first defence. Guaranteed to be hyped and sold as some world event. Would be a big seller here in Ireland.

Be a big seller alright, can definitely see the sale angle.

If we're objective though, it would be a dreadful world title defence. Macklin would need to win some sort of meaningful fight to give that fight any credibility.

As a sidenote, I can see DiBella keeping Lee away from GGG and aiming for the Cotto/Canelo winner next year. That would be a huge money fight in NYC or Vegas.

walshb

magma69 wrote: »

Macklin would need to win some sort of meaningful fight to give that fight any credibility.
.

Not to sell it in Ireland!:)

Nobodies and losers get title shots all the time in boxing. Been happening for years.

BTW, losers as in boxers coming off clear losses.

Tiger Mcilroy

walshb wrote: »

Maybe because it would be a good scrap/clash of styles. Lee is not somehow clearly superior to Macklin. Both IMO are at at a similar level.

Seriously?...macklins last 2 performances would indicate that lee is superior to macklin.

Its clear you dont rate lee but to say that the macklin we have been watching the last year is not on the slide is mental and lee would box his ears off.

walshb

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Seriously?...macklins last 2 performances would indicate that lee is superior to macklin.

Its clear you dont rate lee but to say that the macklin we have been watching the last year is not on the slide is mental and lee would box his ears off.

I never said that Macklin was not on the slide. He was never all that good. Lee has hardly been impressive either.

Lee has two wins in his last two and Macklin has a W and an L. Lee was getting beaten in both bouts before he turned them around. All credit to him for that, but that doesn't tell me that he is now somehow obviously better than Macklin.

Tiger Mcilroy

walshb wrote: »

I never said that Macklin was not on the slide. He was never all that good. Lee has hardly been impressive either.

Lee has two wins in his last two and Macklin has a W and an L. Lee was getting beaten in both bouts before he turned them around. All credit to him for that, but that doesn't tell me that he is now somehow obviously better than Macklin.

Finding a way to win a world title against an undefeated fighter is the same as getting battered against heiland and struggling with Jose Yebes?

Your being unfair on lee..

Henno30

magma69 wrote: »

Be a big seller alright, can definitely see the sale angle.

If we're objective though, it would be a dreadful world title defence. Macklin would need to win some sort of meaningful fight to give that fight any credibility.

As a sidenote, I can see DiBella keeping Lee away from GGG and aiming for the Cotto/Canelo winner next year. That would be a huge money fight in NYC or Vegas.

If Canelo beats Cotto, then a Canelo-Lee unification bout would definitely be on the cards for next September.

Would be great if we then got Canelo-GGG in May of the following year. Would be even better if it came sooner, but it won't, and at least we'd finally have a real middleweight superfight to look forward to.

walshb

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Finding a way to win a world title against an undefeated fighter is the same as getting battered against heiland and struggling with Jose Yebes?

Your being unfair on lee..

I am not being unfair on Lee. I simply spoke about his last two fights, and that he has hardly set the world on fire. Defeating and undefeated fighter. What does that even mean apart from the obvious? Lee was struggling against Jackson before that KO shot. He has never been a solid and consistent MW.

Question to anyone: Macklin gets in shape and trains for 4-5 months and meets Lee in middle of 2015. Is it somehow so obvious that Lee retains the title? I would make him a favourite, but I wouldn't put any money on it. Lee's career is full of inconsistency and patchy performances. Some good performances too. But not enough for me to somehow make him a clear favorite over any half decent MW.

Spazdarn

walshb wrote: »

Maybe because it would be a good scrap/clash of styles. Lee is not somehow clearly superior to Macklin. Both IMO are at at a similar level.

Think Macklin's had too many hidings at this stage. Andy is marginally better

Question to anyone: Macklin gets in shape and trains for 4-5 months and meets Lee in middle of 2015. Is it somehow so obvious that Lee retains the title? I would make him a favourite, but I wouldn't put any money on it. Lee's career is full of inconsistency and patchy performances. Some good performances too. But not enough for me to somehow make him a clear favorite over any half decent MW.

Agree with this, Andy hasn't really truly dominated an opponent for a while now. I do think Booth is good for him though, but his stamina and punch output will still leave him in a tight spot against the better boxers in the division. Even BJS isn't a given

Mantis Toboggan

I'd like to see Lee v Macklin simply because it would be a high profile domestic fight. God knows we don't see enough of them. Lee is a Limerick man and Macklin is a second generation tipperary man so there certainly will be a rivalry there. I'm sure Macklin feels he hasn't done himself justice with his Last few fights. Let's not forget both have been disrupted with out of the ring problems. He may have one performance left, if not Lee has a handy first defense. For me, this option definitely beats him fighting in America in the middle of the night which will go largely unnoticed my the Irish public yet again.

Tiger Mcilroy

walshb wrote: »

I am not being unfair on Lee. I simply spoke about his last two fights, and that he has hardly set the world on fire. Defeating and undefeated fighter. What does that even mean apart from the obvious? Lee was struggling against Jackson before that KO shot. He has never been a solid and consistent MW.

Question to anyone: Macklin gets in shape and trains for 4-5 months and meets Lee in middle of 2015. Is it somehow so obvious that Lee retains the title? I would make him a favourite, but I wouldn't put any money on it. Lee's career is full of inconsistency and patchy performances. Some good performances too. But not enough for me to somehow make him a clear favorite over any half decent MW.

You compared their last two respective fights and on the bare facts of those alone lee is clearly ahead of macklin as in better opposition and even though he was behind on points he found the equalizer and done what he had to.

Macklin struggled to a points decision over a distinctly average Jose Yebes and then proceeded to get beaten badly by Heiland, he had no plan b in either fight and Imo looked slow.

I like Macklin but i generally trust what i see and its imo obvious lee is a step above right now. 2 years ago its closer but a long career and hard fights look to have caught up with macklin.

megadodge

Tyson Fury wrote: »

I'd like to see Lee v Macklin simply because it would be a high profile domestic fight. God knows we don't see enough of them. Lee is a Limerick man and Macklin is a second generation tipperary Roscommon man so there certainly will be a rivalry there. I'm sure Macklin feels he hasn't done himself justice with his Last few fights. Let's not forget both have been disrupted with out of the ring problems. He may have one performance left, if not Lee has a handy first defense. For me, this option definitely beats him fighting in America in the middle of the night which will go largely unnoticed my the Irish public yet again.

Ahem!

Big Ears

megadodge wrote: »

Ahem!

http://www.ballingarry.net/journal/Ballingarry%20Parish%20Journal%201997/1997%20Ballingarry%20G.A.A.%20Club.htm

Sure he's a Balingarry man through and through

Mantis Toboggan

Sure the man played hurling for Tipperary.

Mantis Toboggan

Planned reception for the man at city Hall in Limerick next Wednesday night.

megadodge

Big Ears wrote: »

http://www.ballingarry.net/journal/Ballingarry%20Parish%20Journal%201997/1997%20Ballingarry%20G.A.A.%20Club.htm

Sure he's a Balingarry man through and through

He spent as much of his summer holidays in Roscommon as he did in Tipp! Anyway, I'm not really complaining it's just that the Roscommon angle seldom gets mentioned despite him being a half Rossie and having busloads of supporters from the Mote Park / Four Roads area for any of his fights in Ireland. Actually, a lot of them go abroad to his fights too, including Germany and the US.

alanceltic

Absolutely thrilled for Andy. Have met him briefly a couple of times and he is one of the nicest & most genuine people you are ever likely to meet from any sport. You only have to youtube his post fight interviews to see how much class he has about him. He has won his world title, nobody can take this achievement away from him and I am am truly thrilled like many are that he can walk away from the sport with the highest of honours. The tribute he paid to both his past and present trainers tells you a lot about the man he is and the fact that both Manny & Adam developed such a close personal relationship also tells a story in itself.

The fight itself was a bit of a soft touch for a world title shot if I am being totally honest but that's matters little at this point, Korobov's style suited Andy down to a tee. I also don't expect Andy to make big waves but again anything from here out is a bonus, what I would like is to see him cash out with a big payday. I don't see any place for a Macklin Lee fight at this stage and I think it would be a horrible affair, its a fight that would have been a cracker 3 years ago but both lads are in the twilight of their careers at this stage and I would hate for either of them to be remembered for what could/would be a bit of a car crash. Quite simply the hunger is gone from Macklin, you could clearly see that in his last fight.

As Andy himself said he won the title for himself first, his family second and his country third and he has done everyone proud.... take a bow son and savour the moment, class act altogether!

boxer.fan

alanceltic wrote: »

Absolutely thrilled for Andy. Have met him briefly a couple of times and he is one of the nicest & most genuine people you are ever likely to meet from any sport. You only have to youtube his post fight interviews to see how much class he has about him. He has won his world title, nobody can take this achievement away from him and I am am truly thrilled like many are that he can walk away from the sport with the highest of honours. The tribute he paid to both his past and present trainers tells you a lot about the man he is and the fact that both Manny & Adam developed such a close personal relationship also tells a story in itself.

The fight itself was a bit of a soft touch for a world title shot if I am being totally honest but that's matters little at this point, Korobov's style suited Andy down to a tee. I also don't expect Andy to make big waves but again anything from here out is a bonus, what I would like is to see him cash out with a big payday. I don't see any place for a Macklin Lee fight at this stage and I think it would be a horrible affair, its a fight that would have been a cracker 3 years ago but both lads are in the twilight of their careers at this stage and I would hate for either of them to be remembered for what could/would be a bit of a car crash. Quite simply the hunger is gone from Macklin, you could clearly see that in his last fight.

As Andy himself said he won the title for himself first, his family second and his country third and he has done everyone proud.... take a bow son and savour the moment, class act altogether!

Nice post there alanceltic. i think it sums up the feelings of most fans. I know what you mean when you say it was a bit of a soft touch for a world title fight but he can't be criticized for that. Andy has taken the rough with the smooth throughout his career & has now won his world title. He deserves to be world champion as much as Geale, Sturm, Barker, Quillin, Bernard Dunne, Scott Quigg, and so on.

Spazdarn

Would like him to clock up a few defences now and not lose it instantly like Barker did. Think he deserves the bit of money that comes with these title fights.

Macklin first, not an easy fight but I feel Andy could definitely outpoint him.
Then a big money fight like Cotto, set him up for life!

Henno30

Problem is, there aren't many middleweights you would be confident Lee could beat.

For me, it's all about surviving the WBO mandatory if in fact he is to have one, and then aiming for Canelo next September. Whether the Cotto fight happens or it doesn't, Lee makes sense for Canelo. And it would certainly be the kind of payday Andy would be looking for.

Lee is in a curiously strong position. He's vulnerable enough to attract the attention of the big sharks, and as an Irishman with a belt who's known in the US he has the negotiating power to get paid for it.

Deiseboy01

boxer.fan wrote: »

Nice post there alanceltic. i think it sums up the feelings of most fans. I know what you mean when you say it was a bit of a soft touch for a world title fight but he can't be criticized for that. Andy has taken the rough with the smooth throughout his career & has now won his world title. He deserves to be world champion as much as Geale, Sturm, Barker, Quillin, Bernard Dunne, Scott Quigg, and so on.

Scott quigg is not a world champion

dinorebel

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Scott quigg is not a world champion

He probably ranks higher in his division than Andy does in his to be fair.

walshb

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Scott quigg is not a world champion

Why stop at Quigg?

dinorebel

Geale, Sturm, Barker, Quillin, Bernard Dunne, Scott Quigg

of that list only Sturm has even a tenuous claim to being a genuine world champ rather than a belt holder.

boxer.fan

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Scott quigg is not a world champion

He holds some form of WBA World title.

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

He holds some form of WBA World title.

Interim belts and versions of regular belts are a joke IMO. Not saying the boxers are jokes, but to be held aloft as world champion is an absolute joke.

dinorebel

walshb wrote: »

Interim belts and versions of regular belts are a joke IMO. Not saying the boxers are jokes, but to be held aloft as world champion is an absolute joke.

Totally agree dont blame the fighters though as it raises profile and brings bigger purses.

efb

He did say Korbidov was in his sights (after fight in Irl)

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

Interim belts and versions of regular belts are a joke IMO. Not saying the boxers are jokes, but to be held aloft as world champion is an absolute joke.

I would agree with u walshb. Its ridiculous. The reason I mentioned Geale Sturm, Quigg etc is that I believe Andy deserves his title as much as any of them. I am in no way putting them out there as number 1's in their division.

Deiseboy01

walshb wrote: »

Interim belts and versions of regular belts are a joke IMO. Not saying the boxers are jokes, but to be held aloft as world champion is an absolute joke.

What he said. Was it the WBA who brought this **** in? Shameful.

Henno30

I think it's appropriate to refer to a titleholder as a champ in person. It's common courtesy and shows a bit of respect.

In general, they should be referred to as titleholders, not world champions. Interim title holders are challengers and nothing more.

walshb

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

What he said. Was it the WBA who brought this **** in? Shameful.

As far as I know the WBA were the first to introduce a 2nd WC in their ranks. Ridiculous. And sometimes it didn't matter who fought for that 2nd version.

alanceltic

Isn't it just typically Irish, we get a world champion and as night follows day we get the knockers and the be begrudgers trying to take the shine off it.

We are all aware that the sport has changed from decades ago but come on this thread doesn't need to go there.... same old suspects too, disappointing really.

dinorebel

alanceltic wrote: »

Isn't it just typically Irish, we get a world champion and as night follows day we get the knockers and the be begrudgers trying to take the shine off it.

We are all aware that the sport has changed from decades ago but come on this thread doesn't need to go there.... same old suspects too, disappointing really.

Nobody is knocking Andy but let's get real the World Champion is no1 in the division and for all the enjoyment he's given us it's not Andy.

walshb

I don't think anyone is knocking or begrudging Lee. He comes across as a real good guy. Just debating boxing and the politics and ridiculousness of it at times.

alan, you yourself commented on the title being a soft touch. That I fully agree with. It's like taking names out of a hat and pitting them for a world belt.

Big Ears

I'm a huge fan of Lennox Lewis, but his suggestion to the WBA of creating a 'Super Champion' was one of the worst things to happen the sport. The only positive that can be taken is the belts have become less and less important as a result and we look for the top fighters to fight each other for big fights, rather than regarding 'title' fights as being the be all and end all. Of course the best don't fight each other.......so I dunno.


That's not to take anything from Lee, he beat an excellent fighter in Korobov and that in itself means something. Btw Scott Quigg is as much of a World champion as I am.

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

I
That's not to take anything from Lee, he beat an excellent fighter in Korobov and that in itself means something. Btw Scott Quigg is as much of a World champion as I am.

You really think Korobov is an excellent professional MW? I saw nothing of note from him vs. Lee or against others. Excellent to me implies really world class. In 6 rds against Lee he did virtually nothing, barely landed a decent punch. Compare that to other Lee opponents, including Anthony Fitzgerald.

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

You really think Korobov is an excellent professional MW? I saw nothing of note from him vs. Lee or against others. Excellent to me implies really world class. In 6 rds against Lee he did virtually nothing, barely landed a decent punch. Compare that to other Lee opponents, including Anthony Fitzgerald.

I think he's an excellent technical fighter, and yes he's not nearly as suited to the pro game as he was an amateur but he's still a difficult proposition for most Middleweights. Quillin's team gave up a guaranteed $1.4 million payday (3 times his previous highest purse) not to face him.
Neither fighter landed much due to the nature of the bout, it was a very cagey affair, with both men being wary of each others punching power and not committing to much more than the jab. This approach was shown to be justified considering how quick the fight ended when bout men started opening up.

The Anthony Fitzgerald fight was Lee's first fight with Adam Booth and came less than 4 months after Emmanuel Steward's passing, I don't consider it an accurate reflection of what Lee is like at all.
Korobov has beaten some pretty decent fighters in Ossie Duran, Derek Edwards and Jose Uzcategui and looked fairly impressive in most of his recent bouts, having had trouble adapting to the pros earlier in his career.

For instance looks at it this way, what top 10 Middlweights would I expect Korobov to beat ?: Miguel Cotto, Sergio Martinez, Jermain Taylor, Martin Murray, Billy Joe Saunders and Daniel Jacobs. Anyone else (bar Golovkin) I wouldn't favour him but would give him a shot.

FTA69

I agree with you here. Korobov was being underrated by some people, he was a highly credible opponent and Andy's beating him was a massive achievement. He was certainly more credible than Quillin who was lauding it over the WBO as a "world champion" for yonks.

Henno30

Funny that the fighter Quillin took the WBO belt from was Hassan N'Dam, the man who beat Lee at the Olympics all those years ago.

Big Ears

Henno30 wrote: »

Funny that the fighter Quillin took the WBO belt from was Hassan N'Dam, the man who beat Lee at the Olympics all those years ago.

That fight still annoys me :mad:
Lee lost on countback (27:27) and that might have been fair if the vast majority of N'Dam's scoring blows hadn't been slaps. I mean why the **** do they bother putting the white part on the glove if they're just going to ignore it's there and score blows which connect with any part of it ???
Lee would of been beat by Gaydarbekov in the round after anyway, but it's still bollocks.

That was some star studded division, you'd be amazed the pro fighters who came from the Middleweight division at the 2004 games:
Gennady Golovkin
Andre Dirrell
Jean Pascal
Karoly Balzsay
Andy Lee
Hassan N'Dam
Alfredo Angulo (Lee beat him)
Yordanis Despaigne
and some other decent pros like Lukas Wilaschek, Joey Vegas, Jamie Pittman and Kgotso Motau

That's all without the gold medal winner, Gaydarbek Gaydarbekov himself !

efb

Big Ears wrote: »

That fight still annoys me :mad:
Lee lost on countback (27:27) and that might have been fair if the vast majority of N'Dam's scoring blows hadn't been slaps. I mean why the **** do they bother putting the white part on the glove if they're just going to ignore it's there and score blows which connect with any part of it ???
Lee would of been beat by Gaydarbekov in the round after anyway, but it's still bollocks.

That was some star studded division, you'd be amazed the pro fighters who came from the Middleweight division at the 2004 games:
Gennady Golovkin
Andre Dirrell
Jean Pascal
Karoly Balzsay
Andy Lee
Hassan N'Dam
Alfredo Angulo (Lee beat him)
Yordanis Despaigne
and some other decent pros like Lukas Wilaschek, Joey Vegas, Jamie Pittman and Kgotso Motau

That's all without the gold medal winner, Gaydarbek Gaydarbekov himself !

Agreed

The Mig

I think Frampton hits the nail on the head here talking about Quigg's "World Title"

http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2014/1218/667704-carl-frampton-ill-beat-chris-avalos-convincingly/

walshb

The Mig wrote: »

I think Frampton hits the nail on the head here talking about Quigg's "World Title"

http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2014/1218/667704-carl-frampton-ill-beat-chris-avalos-convincingly/

I read that. But, we could belittle him too by saying that he won his belt against a fighter he had already beaten, a fighter that had already been beaten twice by a bin man. The only difference between Frampton and Quigg is that Frampton's belt is the IBF belt, and Quigg's is a version of the WBA belt. Neither man can really lay claim to a WC tag!