Main St, Ireland.

mariaalice

Should there be ban on certain types of shops in the main street of Irish town.

For example today in a town near me another pound type shop was getting ready to open, now there are two pound type shops almost directly across from this pound shop.

Tighter control of the retail mix might actually bring people in to the town to shop.

I personally would ban more that one or two discount retailers on the main street of any town and incentive niche boutiques, cafés and good books shops along with good quality chain shops, independent butchers and greengrocers. Maybe with a tax or rates rebate or something like that.

wiz569

Nice idea but unfortunately its all money driven,as in people do not have enough money to spend in niche stores or boutiques,fancy cafes and book shops,

I would say a good percentage of people shop online now as its easier with a lot of people probably working longer hours,plus its easier to pick up a bargain,

I do like your vision of the perfect high street

enricoh

yeh, gotta agree, the main street in my town is gone to muck -poundshops, cash for gold n fone repairs.
saw something about in the north they are charging the big multiples n boots etc higher rates and lower rates on the independant shops. would help the small guy survive n stop all towns looking the same

woodoo

enricoh wrote: »

yeh, gotta agree, the main street in my town is gone to muck -poundshops, cash for gold n fone repairs.
saw something about in the north they are charging the big multiples n boots etc higher rates and lower rates on the independant shops. would help the small guy survive n stop all towns looking the same

I think this is a good idea. We need more independent shops for some variety. Too many big high street stores about now.

Rightwing

I would imagine if you banned the likes of pound shops, you'd end up with nothing at all. Supply and demand folks.

mariaalice

Rightwing wrote: »

I would imagine if you banned the likes of pound shops, you'd end up with nothing at all. Supply and demand folks.

However you could use tax/local government/planning policy to change the mix on the main streets of our towns and that sort of thing feeds on its self if you have the right sort of shopping environment you will have more people using the town to shop.

cali_eire

There was a segment an the BBC News last night about the British High Street and similar issues of decline.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25147673

crusher000

The main street in my town mostly has closed premises and derelict buildings, would love to see new shops open. I don't think we should look at the type of shop but more at the front design. As part of planning when units open they can decide if the signage etc. ties in with the local enviroment of the town. So old fashioned signs instead of plastic neon signs etc.

Fussgangerzone

I think it's a problem, and does it make streets better or worse; I think worse.
A bunch of crummy shops in a row means less foot traffic for any half-decent shop that might stand a chance otherwise.

Maybe there should a max of two shops of the same type within half a mile of each other. The part of Dublin I live in is full of the same crap repeated ad nauseum. The few nice shops get feck all customers, the fact that they're surrounded by crap can't help.

I get that "whoever is willing to pay rent" is a factor, but councils need to start thinking more long-term. Too much repetitive crap does run down an area. Look at any street coming off the east side of O Connell St in Dublin. Same grotty crap 40 times over. Of course, the methadone clinics don't help.

mariaalice

crusher wrote: »

The main street in my town mostly has closed premises and derelict buildings, would love to see new shops open. I don't think we should look at the type of shop but more at the front design. As part of planning when units open they can decide if the signage etc. ties in with the local environment of the town. So old fashioned signs instead of plastic neon signs etc.

That's another point there is branch of a shoe shop in a town near me it is very old fashioned and looks like something form the 1960s, yet the branch of the same shoe shop in a shopping centre is bright airy and modern and therefore more appealing.

cali_eire

A big blow to the Main Streets came with the construction of all these "car friendly" shopping centers on the suburban periphery. This is the same thing that killed the US Main street in the 1950's and 1960's. Some of these Main Streets reinvented themselves as upscale and niche while others just became decaying urban cores.

Xenophile

Pound shops increase the footfall of everthing around them, I would say especially cafés and maybe some of the less glamorous shops. They pay commercial rates to the local authority, let the market place decide!

Scortho

I know I'd prefer the main st in my town to have 10 pound shops than 10 empty units.
At the end of the day if there's no demand for a nice fancy boutique, then there's no point in opening one.

dRNk SAnTA

I think that the level of rent and council rates has a big influence on this. It's very hard for a specialist retailer to succeed if these costs are high. Shops with a high turnover (e.g. €2 shops) are much more likely to survive.

I'm constantly amazed at the amazing improvement in the number of quality shops and restaurants in Dublin city centre since the crash. It's of a far higher quality than the boom years provided.

Those familiar with Dame Street/Georges Street today should take a look at the Google Street View images from August 2009 - it's so bleak! And thankfully now very very different.

The rent falls surely have a lot to do with it.

Fussgangerzone

Xenophile wrote: »

Pound shops increase the footfall of everything around them, I would say especially cafés and maybe some of the less glamorous shops. They pay commercial rates to the local authority, let the market place decide!

Ah, yes, how I love to sit with friends over tea and scones and discuss what we bought on this weeks run to the poundshop.

Fussgangerzone

Scortho wrote: »

I know I'd prefer the main st in my town to have 10 pound shops than 10 empty units.
At the end of the day if there's no demand for a nice fancy boutique, then there's no point in opening one.

Are the pound shops not all chains though? We don't know what the demand is til a shop opens.

hfallada

Well you can thank county council for allowing massive shopping centers to be built several miles from the town they are supposed to serve. This causes all shoppers to shop in the centers and not in the town. But it doesn't help that people still travel to Dublin and other major cities to do a majority of their massive shopping. I cant over how run down the center of Sligo is. But yet my relatives there shop in the outskirts of the city because of free parking.

mariaalice

where I live has a vibrant café culture and retail units are snapped up and it jammed at the weekends, and is always busy, now that's more by accident that by design. I did not say fancy expensive boutique's I said niche boutique's they don't have to be expensive or there could be a country shop or an award wining butchers that was incentives to open instead of the pound shops. I have nothing against pound shops its just that they should be part of the mix not the dominant retailer.

Enniskillen has a fantastic and busy high street that has a good mix of local and chain retail shops and it works well.

crusher000

Employment in any sector should be welcome. The more people that work in a town cnetre the more need there is for the nice cafes etc.

Going Forward

mariaalice wrote: »

Should there be ban on certain types of shops in the main street of Irish town.

For example today in a town near me another pound type shop was getting ready to open, now there are two pound type shops almost directly across from this pound shop.

Tighter control of the retail mix might actually bring people in to the town to shop.

I personally would ban more that one or two discount retailers on the main street of any town and incentive niche boutiques, cafés and good books shops along with good quality chain shops, independent butchers and greengrocers. Maybe with a tax or rates rebate or something like that.

Do we really want to further legislate for what kind of shops should be allowed?
What were in the pound shop units before they opened; why did they close?

What is actually wrong with pound shops? Is the clientele a bit scruffy, is the shopfront ugly? Are they paying below the minimum wage?

Sadly, shops tend to reflect the purchasing power of an area, remember the snobbery over Aldi and Lidl when they opened here first?
Now the "clever shopper" shops there.

Yes, Cash for Gold etc. may not be attractive, neither were the pawn shops of old, but it would be hard to have a Disneyland shopping experience if shoppers cant afford it.

Here's a point to consider- maybe Main Street shopping has simply had its day.
Maybe that mode of shopping is now just a dinosaur and too much hassle and expensive for people compared to using SCs, petrol stations and the internet.

NIMAN

Unfortunately a lot of main streets are going this way. The pound shops are selling what people need, or at least what they think they need. And they are doing it cheaply too. Its a no-brainer that in a 5yr recession they will do well.

The glut of charity shops is also a major sight now too. Not sure if they get reduced or zero rates or not, but there is a hell of a lot of them about city centres these days. In fact, if it wasn't for them and the pound shops, a lot of town centres would look a lot worse.

Farmer Pudsey

Biggest issue on main street Ireland now is car parking. A shopper has a choice they can go to the suburban shopping centre/mall, and park for free. Some even now have underground car parks so you will not get wet.

Or he/she can go into the main street where he could have to park a mile away from the shops. If he parks on street he/she will be constantly watching the time in case there ticket runs out. If they park in a multi-story again after three hours they are charge through the nose.

They are discouraged from using cafe's/ resturants because of this rush in rush out. A load of large towns/city councils are too busy making area's pedestrised to worry about who will come and shop. No 2-3 hours and you must get out of town as like the wild west the bad Sherriff is watching you.

It is a simple fact people that travel further spend more unfortunantly they need to travel by car. However our town/city coporations frown on this these people while wanted by business people there cars are not wanted by local government. No you must travel by public transport. However we have only one city with a bit of a public transport system.

We do not need to regulate we need to rethink

andrew

I presume your problem is with how they look? In which case wouldn't it make more sense to regulate shop facades so that they remain in keeping with their surroundings? Banning them seems a bit much.

Scortho

andrew wrote: »

I presume your problem is with how they look? In which case wouldn't it make more sense to regulate shop facades so that they remain in keeping with their surroundings? Banning them seems a bit much.

I'd second this. Some shop facades look awfully tacky

coolshannagh28

The proliferation of pound shops and charity shops is a direct result of the recession ,people spending much less are drawn to them, add in the number of immigrants occupying our town centres who are looking for value as they start to climb the economic ladder and you have a perfect set of conditions for their establishment .
In my local town business after business has closed as footfall dropped over the years ,rates and overpoliced pay parking and out of town shopping centres are also factors .
In reality the only thing that will improve the nature of our high streets is an upturn in the economy which might just be happening at the minute ,in a couple of years time there will be fewer of this type of outlet and a better retail mix if this trend continues,

Farmer Pudsey

Scortho wrote: »

I'd second this. Some shop facades look awfully tacky

I agree entirely that some shop fronts are tacky however most of the issue here are cosmetic. Just go to Dun Laoghaire. Beautiful paved town centre on the sea front. Just one problem no one go'es there. Why just one little issue no parking so a load of empty shops so now even less go there.

Our city and town councils have to face the fact that car's exist and that most people in Ireland travel in them. It is all right having beautiful paved streets and area's where people can walk however you have to allow for the fact that people will more than likely use a car to get there and are unwilling to fork out 20 euro for 4-5 hours parking.

We also have to reduce rates these are as high as rental cost in may cases. this make's it impossible to run a small business in may town centre's. This has evolved from the scenario where we did not fund councils from local taxes rather they tried to top up central funding from parking charges and penalty's. On top of that County and city managers are not elected so they are not accountable. This is not a argument to bring back local elected officals but rather a look at the issue involved.

D1stant

It's pretty simple. If you want a varied, valued active high street do not shop at the large chains.

That means buying your meat, veg, clothes, etc in separate independent shops. Alas the convenience of large retailers usually trumps the better quality in discrete traders.

So here it comes - The UK/US model of dead towns surrounded by suburbs with huge Malls.

recipio

Irish retailers shot themselves in the foot by allowing town centre paid parking. Irish people are tight and consider 50c too much on top of the newspaper and a cup of coffee. The High street is dying due to internet shopping and a 23% vat rate. If I had to make major purchases ,say over 1000 euro I'd probably head to Newry.

chopper6

Xenophile wrote: »

Pound shops increase the footfall of everthing around them, I would say especially cafés and maybe some of the less glamorous shops. They pay commercial rates to the local authority, let the market place decide!

I,er...have an "interest" in one of these stores.

People will do a large part of thier grocery shop in them these days before proceeding on to chains like Lidl and Aldi who will stock items like fresh foods etc that are not practical to stock in a "euro store"-type shop.

The biggest sellers in terms of volume are Breakfast cereals,Coffee,Greeting cards,carbonated beverages,hygene products such as toothpaste and shampoo,sweets,pet-foods,household cleaning requisites and washing powder.

Most of the people will be using these shops to bulk-buy necessary items for a family and in most cases the difference in price between a discount retail unit and a highstreet supermarket for the SAME branded items can be 50% or more.

OwaynOTT

How can they be so cheap in a discount store?

Scortho

OwaynOTT wrote: »

How can they be so cheap in a discount store?

Im going to guess not charging the same markup.
I work in a pharmacy and even with a 50% mark up on toiletries, we'd be half the likes of tesco's price for a lot of stuff.

chopper6

OwaynOTT wrote: »

How can they be so cheap in a discount store?

There's a couple of reasons...for example fizzy drinks and breakfast cereals might have "short date" labels which means the "best before date" is 6 months to a year instead of two or three years.

This makes perfecct sense as nobody really keeps food unopened for years in the cupboard if they intend to use it but in a big supermarket chain it could be sitting in storage for months or years hence the long dates on the items.

chopper6

Scortho wrote: »

Im going to guess not charging the same markup.
I work in a pharmacy and even with a 50% mark up on toiletries, we'd be half the likes of tesco's price for a lot of stuff.

That's also true.


Although Tesco has a huge economy of scale,their bills are much higher...a lot more people need to be paid out of the profit...they will also invest in items with a slim markup for variety and this further eats into profits...they also tend to locate in prime locations and have huge carparks,high tech checkouts etc etc.

A lot of euro stores are owned by one or maybe a couple of people paying a handful of staff in smaller shops with a high shelving density.

maryishere

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Biggest issue on main street Ireland now is car parking. A shopper has a choice they can go to the suburban shopping centre/mall, and park for free. Some even now have underground car parks so you will not get wet.

Or he/she can go into the main street where he could have to park a mile away from the shops. If he parks on street he/she will be constantly watching the time in case there ticket runs out. If they park in a multi-story again after three hours they are charge through the nose.

They are discouraged from using cafe's/ resturants because of this rush in rush out.

The authorities should provide more car parks close to town / city centres, and make them cheaper. Then people will be more inclined to shop / browse in town centres. Irish town and city centres should be protected, and should not have to pay higher rates per square foot than shopping centres miles out.

Farmer Pudsey

chopper6 wrote: »

There's a couple of reasons...for example fizzy drinks and breakfast cereals might have "short date" labels which means the "best before date" is 6 months to a year instead of two or three years.

This makes perfecct sense as nobody really keeps food unopened for years in the cupboard if they intend to use it but in a big supermarket chain it could be sitting in storage for months or years hence the long dates on the items.[/QUOTE]

In a big supermarket chain usually it is on the shop floor and gone in a week. No supermarket stores goods to any great extent ship it in and ship it out.

Pete_Cavan

I have said it before but I think a property tax based on land value would solve a lot of problems in this country. Many people who own land/property in town centres are quite happy to have it lying vacant because they can avoid paying rates and maintaining the property. A tax applied regardless of whether the property is vacant or not would mean people are charged for their vacant property damaging the town. They can either pay up, get a tenant or sell. This would lead to more properties being available which would drive down rents, making independent retailers more viable. The fact that they are taxed on the land not the buildings means landlords are not penalised for upgrading or improving their property.

There is too much property allowed to lie vacant while the town centre rots because that is the easy option. The goal should be getting such property into the hands of ambitious people while spreading charges across all landowners means rates are not constantly jacked up on the ever decreasing number of businesses left in a town, all of which would encourage the establishment of small businesses.

Sheldons Brain

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I have said it before but I think a property tax based on land value would solve a lot of problems in this country. Many people who own land/property in town centres are quite happy to have it lying vacant because they can avoid paying rates and maintaining the property. A tax applied regardless of whether the property is vacant or not would mean people are charged for their vacant property damaging the town.

I'd go further and have a discount on this tax if the premises was an addition to the town.

maninasia

crusher000 wrote: »

The main street in my town mostly has closed premises and derelict buildings, would love to see new shops open. I don't think we should look at the type of shop but more at the front design. As part of planning when units open they can decide if the signage etc. ties in with the local enviroment of the town. So old fashioned signs instead of plastic neon signs etc.

Neon signs are old fashioned too.

maninasia

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I agree entirely that some shop fronts are tacky however most of the issue here are cosmetic. Just go to Dun Laoghaire. Beautiful paved town centre on the sea front. Just one problem no one go'es there. Why just one little issue no parking so a load of empty shops so now even less go there.

Our city and town councils have to face the fact that car's exist and that most people in Ireland travel in them. It is all right having beautiful paved streets and area's where people can walk however you have to allow for the fact that people will more than likely use a car to get there and are unwilling to fork out 20 euro for 4-5 hours parking.

We also have to reduce rates these are as high as rental cost in may cases. this make's it impossible to run a small business in may town centre's. This has evolved from the scenario where we did not fund councils from local taxes rather they tried to top up central funding from parking charges and penalty's. On top of that County and city managers are not elected so they are not accountable. This is not a argument to bring back local elected officals but rather a look at the issue involved.

There's a mentality in Irish local governments that cars are bad. While this may be true in part, how else are people going to get around with their family and their groceries?

In the end by banning them from main street you are encouraging even more car driving as there won't be any public transport to out of town centres.

I think the councils need to provide alternatives. That could be subsidised transport, or parking for small electric vehicles like scooters, and yes, allow more cars parks in areas that are economically down. A realistic practical vision rather than a vision of a rich Scandinavian country.

maninasia

chopper6 wrote: »

There's a couple of reasons...for example fizzy drinks and breakfast cereals might have "short date" labels which means the "best before date" is 6 months to a year instead of two or three years.

This makes perfecct sense as nobody really keeps food unopened for years in the cupboard if they intend to use it but in a big supermarket chain it could be sitting in storage for months or years hence the long dates on the items.

I guess what actually happens is manufacturers, distributors and large retailers need to clear out stock quickly if it's not selling well or quickly enough, the easiest way to do that without cutting their own profits is to sell en-masse at a cheap price to the pound stores. The pound stores are acting like your thrift brand of yesteryear.

maninasia

mariaalice wrote: »

That's another point there is branch of a shoe shop in a town near me it is very old fashioned and looks like something form the 1960s, yet the branch of the same shoe shop in a shopping centre is bright airy and modern and therefore more appealing.

It depends. To a hipster or modern urbanite the 1960s version may have more cache. It's all about how you market it.

maninasia

Scortho wrote: »

I know I'd prefer the main st in my town to have 10 pound shops than 10 empty units.
At the end of the day if there's no demand for a nice fancy boutique, then there's no point in opening one.

You can create demand with a good plan and co-ordination with local government. The local government should be more far sighted, reducing rates and parking costs which ultimately will bring them in more money when derelict shops become occupied.
Local businesses should try to ban together to create a critical mass, butcher, baker, newsagent, cafe, restaurants, supermarket. Work together. The main street can offer a higher quality and efficient shopping experience than a bland multilevel shopping centre you have to trudge through.

Of course this is all predicated on you having customers to serve, some rural areas have suffered large scale emigration and unemployment.

Pete_Cavan

A reoccurring opinion here seems to be that reducing, or eliminating, parking charges would boost shoppers in towns, in reality I dont think it would pan out like that because the most convenient parking spaces would just be taken by people who work in the town, who are in earlier, leaving the situation even worse for shoppers.

A good solution would be to introduce a system where people can reclaim the cost of a hours parking at any business once they spend more than, say, €5. You give the business the stub and they give you the money back. The business then reclaims the money from the council at the end of the month. This way people who actually spend money in the town get to park for free but you don't have a situation where people can occupy a space all day regardless of whether they spend or not. Only being able to reclaim one hours parking encourages a good turnover of cars in each space, hopefully making the more convenient spaces available more often.

NIMAN

Free parking for 1hr or something would be good idea.
Means people would spend some money but move on for others to park.

Well in theory anyway.

Farmer Pudsey

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

A reoccurring opinion here seems to be that reducing, or eliminating, parking charges would boost shoppers in towns, in reality I dont think it would pan out like that because the most convenient parking spaces would just be taken by people who work in the town, who are in earlier, leaving the situation even worse for shoppers.

A good solution would be to introduce a system where people can reclaim the cost of a hours parking at any business once they spend more than, say, €5. You give the business the stub and they give you the money back. The business then reclaims the money from the council at the end of the month. This way people who actually spend money in the town get to park for free but you don't have a situation where people can occupy a space all day regardless of whether they spend or not. Only being able to reclaim one hours parking encourages a good turnover of cars in each space, hopefully making the more convenient spaces available more often.

Sounds good in theory however shops would be under pressure from regular customers (local workers) to cast in stubs. Part of the issue is the continual reduction in on street car parking for paved area's etc. The other issue is the huge cost of parking. If you visit a major town or city for shopping and intend to spend 4-5 hours there you are looking at a 20 euro bills. Also would pubs and resturants be allowed to cash in stubs. I do not know what is the complete answer but the present situation is causing a lot of the problems.

lmimmfn

I avoid town centers, parking is a waste of money and I spend less by not going there

K-9

Seems a reasonable initiative by Letterkenny Chamber of Commerce:
Letterkenny Chamber launches Pop-up shop initiative to boost Main Street

She is talking about arts & crafts or home businesses opening a day or 2 a week and also start ups getting temporary space to help them out. Be interesting to see what the take up will be and the interest from landlords.

malibu4u

If main streets close down the government will lose a lot of tax revenue. Even our tourists will find the country less attractive.

Scortho

malibu4u wrote: »

If main streets close down the government will lose a lot of tax revenue. Even our tourists will find the country less attractive.

They'll just tax something else

mariaalice

Thinking about this, it not just that there are too many pound shops or cash for gold shops etc., it is that the mix is wrong what about having a bike shop, cobblers, a good key cutting/small hardware and so on along with the pound shops. A shopping street with a good vibrant mix like that feed on its self and brings more people in to the town which generates more income.

I also think, by law all banks should be obliged to keep a fully staffed and operational branch open in all towns over a population of say 3,000.

Another point the pound shop I saw opening is across the road from two other pounds shops and its doubtful if there is a viable business for them, pound shops keep opening and CLOSING in the town recently and yet more keep opening?

The paid for parking situation has to be sorted out in such a way that it does not affect shoppers.

coolshannagh28

I have a main street business myself and I see all the issues that have been brought up on this forum every day.
Another major factor is that our government has decided for better or worse that Ireland is to be a harbour for multinationals see the recent Forbes endorsement of Ireland as a place to do business .
This strategy gravitates against smaller urban centres and the high street as the government has decided not to support them instead diverting capital and energy towards the citys and the bigger corporates .
I feel this strategy is wrong and that the government should implement ideas along German lines of encouraging small to medium industries which are the lifeblood of smaller urban centres ,however it is a fait accomplit that local demand is generated solely by government spending be it social welfare or
PS wages or farm subsidies but the small town main st cannot survive on these alone