Who should pay?

OwlsZat

Here's the scenario.

3 tenants sharing an apartment where all bills split equally (Sky, Broadband, Electricity) and the apartment is heated by storage heaters.

Anyway, one of our guys is and will be in America (working) for a total of 8 weeks up to Christmas. He didn't rent his room out.

No issues with splitting Sky and Broadband bills.

Problem is with the electricity, should they pay for the period they are away?

ted1

OwlsZat wrote: »

Here's the scenario.

3 tenants sharing an apartment where all bills split equally (Sky, Broadband, Electricity) and the apartment is heated by storage heaters.

Anyway, one of our guys is and will be in America (working) for a total of 8 weeks up to Christmas. He didn't rent his room out.

No issues with splitting Sky and Broadband bills.

Problem is with the electricity, should they pay for the period they are away?

Yes, the standing charge alone is based on days not usage. The fridge/ freezer isn't optional. It costs money to heat his room. Regardless if he is there or not. A 3 bed with 3 occupied rooms is cheaper to heat than a 4 bed with only 3 rooms occupied.

What happens if next time the other roommate goes away for a weekend, dies he look to not pay x% if he is away with work he will be getting subsistence which will cover him and won't let him off of pocket . That is what subsistence is for

Gatling

Personally I'd split the 8 weeks equally between occupants 1 and 2 while no3 is away ,

Big difference between a weekend away and 2 months away ,

For instance if there's a land line in the property and while person 3 is away for 2 months ,
Persons 1 and 2 run up a phone bill will person 3 be expected to pay a third of the bill occupants 1 and 2 run up because they know the third person will have to pay too

OwlsZat

Thanks for the opinions.

Interesting that it's one a side.

Still clear as mud!

Victor

Christmas is only 4 weeks away, not 8.

Will he be returning at all during this time?

Would the absentee be happy with his possessions being subject to frost damage while he is away? Probably not.

Will he be having hot showers, etc. in the apartment. Probably not.

Conclusion: at least something should be paid.

Brozy

Victor wrote: »

Christmas is only 4 weeks away, not 8.

I think he means he's been there for 4 weeks already and will be for another 4.

dpofloinn

In all fairness I dont think it would be right to expect flatmate number 3 to share in the ESB bill,fair enough paying the sky and bband they are standing charges weather you use them or not .Flatmate number 3 is not using an electric shower or using the immersion,tumble dryer etc etc and as for the storage heating do you know if the Flat mate no 3 has turned off the heather in the room?If they havent or have it constantly on then maybe you could ask them to pay a smaller percentage off the bill

endacl

Presumably while he's away he's either accommodated at the company's expense (if employed), or he's factored the cost of subsistence into the price he's charging for his work (if self-employed)? Living costs money. He doesn't have the room on an a-la-carte basis. Of course he pays his share while he's away. If he didn't want to, he could have sublet for the period.

The_Conductor

I'd be inclined to waive his portion of the electricity bill to be honest. Hes not physically present- even if he is incurring some costs. Would you rather he had sublet his bedroom for the duration? I know I wouldn't.

Its a nice gesture to excuse him from the bill- hopefully he takes it in good grace.

J.P.M

Simples

It is called Greed

djimi

Can the other two tenants afford to cover a larger portion of what will be one of the biggest electric bills of the year? Its all well and good saying that if he isn't there then he shouldn't pay, but if it leaves the other tenants financially screwed over a bill that he was expected to contribute to then its not very fair either.

Its really up to you and what you can afford I guess.

dissed doc

If he doesn't want to, the room should be sealed off properly, as it would be a heat loss for the rest of the house otherwise and you would be paying extra for your own heat and also the normal heating cost for him.

What is reasonable IMHO is that he splits the bill normally as if he was there, because you are not renting a la carte as someone said.

Some other countries have a system for this e.g., using a standard split, in the contract. E.g., each person's total normal share can be further divided as e.g., 30% fixed costs for your own living space (that needs minimum heating anyway) and 70% normal variable use. If a €200 bill is €66 each, then €19.80 is a "minimum standard" fixed cost for basic heating and standing charges. The remaining 70% of his share for daily use, etc., is split between the flatmates who are actually around for the two months.

Pawwed Rig

If I went away for a few weeks in December/January I would leave the heating on for at least a couple of hours a day while I was gone thereby incurring costs along with the fixed gas charges.
I would also leave the fridge plugged in and a light timer thereby using electricity.
If you could come to some kind of agreement that he would pay a third of the cost that would have been incurred were all of you to leave for 2 months*. How you would work this out is another issue.



*If everyone leaves for 2 months does that mean noone pays for anything??;)

limitedIQ

"the apartment is heated by storage heaters" those things cost a fortune to run.

I think he should just pay his share of the Standing Charge for the time he is not there and the actual usage should be paid by you two.

Mrs OBumble

It could be argued either way. A 3 way split of the standing charge, and 2 way of the variable is probably mathematically "fairest" - and quite do-able from the information on the bill. But seems kinda OTT.

But the other two will have the benefit of one less person to share with, therefore more time at home alone while "all the others" are out.

If the other two are so financially strapped that a 40%(*) increase to the power bill for a few weeks will stress them, then they need to re-assess whether they can really afford to be living in this apartment.

(*) I said 50% first, ie splitting the difference. But the bill will be less if you don't heat his room, and because he's not cooking, showering etc

djimi

limitedIQ wrote: »

"the apartment is heated by storage heaters" those things cost a fortune to run.

I think he should just pay his share of the Standing Charge for the time he is not there and the actual usage should be paid by you two.

Thing is, all tenants would be jointly responsible for a lot of the usage charges anyway. Things like the fridge/freezers and electric heating are all going to be used either way.

Perhaps a reduction in the split might be a fairer way of doing it, but honestly if three people move into a house then they are doing so on the understanding that all bills will be split three ways. Its not really fair for one person to bugger off for two months and basically stick two fingers up to the other two and tell them to sort the bills themselves. Electricity (and gas if applicable) is the one bill that could be argued for a change in the split, but they still would need to cover a decent portion of what they would usually pay. The bill is not going to reduce by a third just because they are not there.

dissed doc

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It could be argued either way. A 3 way split of the standing charge, and 2 way of the variable is probably mathematically "fairest" - and quite do-able from the information on the bill. But seems kinda OTT.

WHy OTT? Seems pretty easy to do and is a lot easier than....

But the other two will have the benefit of one less person to share with, therefore more time at home alone while "all the others" are out.

If the other two are so financially strapped that a 40%(*) increase to the power bill for a few weeks will stress them, then they need to re-assess whether they can really afford to be living in this apartment.

Calculating the financial gain from having more (or less) time with sole use of the apartment or moving out.

OwlsZat

Opinion still seems very much divided. A 3 option poll would be great.

1. Split between 3
2. Split between 2
3. Split between 3, tenant 3 at a reduced share.

Gatling

Still can't see where tenant a way for 2 months should be paying for 2 tenants heating, cooking ,clothes washing ,emersion use ,computer /console use ,

the tenants should be consciously aware of there ESB usage and be prepared to budget for any further cost

djimi

Realistically it doesnt matter a jot what we say; you have to live with this guy so the best thing to do is sit down and try and work something out. Reasonably speaking they should be contributing something towards the ESB while they are away as the bill is not going to reduce by a third in their absense; how much is really up to you to decide amongst yourselves.

OwlsZat

dpofloinn wrote: »

Flatmate number 3 is not using an electric shower or using the immersion,tumble dryer etc etc and as for the storage heating do you know if the Flat mate no 3 has turned off the heather in the room?l

They turned off the heat to their room.

OwlsZat

dissed doc wrote: »

Some other countries have a system for this e.g., using a standard split, in the contract. E.g., each person's total normal share can be further divided as e.g., 30% fixed costs for your own living space (that needs minimum heating anyway) and 70% normal variable use. If a €200 bill is €66 each, then €19.80 is a "minimum standard" fixed cost for basic heating and standing charges. The remaining 70% of his share for daily use, etc., is split between the flatmates who are actually around for the two months.

Thanks for the info, wasn't aware such a system existed but probably makes sense in reality.

elfy4eva

Have a chat with the other room-mate who is not away at the moment. Taking into account that there are standing charges involved with the bill the two of you should come up with a fair amount for the other fella to contribute. It shouldn't be a major issue as it should be a small amount on money if u subtract his (non essential) usage.

However I know some people would get irate if you try to charge them for stuff when they have been absent. You may need to detail to them why they're sharing in this particular bill and that you've taken the fact that they've not been using when working out his contribution.

Hope it all works out

The_Conductor

OwlsZat wrote: »

Opinion still seems very much divided. A 3 option poll would be great.

1. Split between 3
2. Split between 2
3. Split between 3, tenant 3 at a reduced share.

Its not rocket science- if you're not capable of making a decision based on the comments thus far- why would adding a poll make one iota of difference?

Regards,

The_Conductor

Mrs OBumble

Gatling wrote: »

Still can't see where tenant a way for 2 months should be paying for 2 tenants heating, cooking ,clothes washing ,emersion use ,computer /console use ,

Try looking at your ESB bill, and calculating the proportion of the total that is fixed daily rate, and thus will not change no matter how many people live there.

This should help you understand.

Seriously, if I lived with a person who was making a big issue about this either way, I would be moving on.

Gatling

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Try looking at your ESB bill, and calculating the proportion of the total that is fixed daily rate, and thus will not change no matter how many people live there.

This should help you understand.

Seriously, if I lived with a person who was making a big issue about this either way, I would be moving on.

That's the simple part ,

Asking someone to pay for something for a 2 month period there not actually there for other than a small token payment anything else is plain greed

Thomas D

He should have to pay. There is a fixed cost of using electricity in a house. The lights, tv, immersion and most things will be on regardless.

dissed doc

Gatling wrote: »

That's the simple part ,

Asking someone to pay for something for a 2 month period there not actually there for other than a small token payment anything else is plain greed

It's not a small token payment, it's minimum cost for any house or apartment. If no-one is there, it still costs money to have heaters at a minimum level to prevent mildew, etc., .

odds_on

elfy4eva wrote: »

Have a chat with the other room-mate who is not away at the moment. Taking into account that there are standing charges involved with the bill the two of you should come up with a fair amount for the other fella to contribute. It shouldn't be a major issue as it should be a small amount on money if u subtract his (non essential) usage.

However I know some people would get irate if you try to charge them for stuff when they have been absent. You may need to detail to them why they're sharing in this particular bill and that you've taken the fact that they've not been using when working out his contribution.

Hope it all works out

So, if the utilities were to be split so that the person who is away for 2 months pays less, where will it end.
One of the tenants decides to go on holidays for a month, will he get a "refund" of discount for the time he is away.

And the other tenant decides to go away twice in the year for 2 weeks at a time will he not have to pay his share at all, for two weeks or for the four weeks.

When the tenant agreed to move into the place, he agreed to a split of the bills 3 ways - now he wants to break that agreement because it does not suit him. He wants his cake both ways.

Where I live, we all (lodgers and the landlord) pay the bills as they fall due. Being retired, I tend have been away on numerous short breaks of a week or so. I suppose, over the last 9 months, I have been away for probably more than 8 weeks - but I still pay my full share of the utility bills.

Chattastrophe!

I'd expect the bills to be shared equally.

You can't really argue that the two not going away benefit from having one person less to share with in his absence - because it's not like they had a choice in the matter!

The main reason that people opt for a house share rather than renting alone is so that they have people to share the rent and bills with. If I sign up for a houseshare with two other people, I expect all bills to be split three ways. Why should I end up paying more because of someone else's decision not to spend much time there?

By the way, I've been in this situation myself before, where I spent several months working on the other side of the country. I would spend maybe one or two weekends a month in my apartment, if even that. I still paid my 50% share of the rent and bills, and would never have expected otherwise!

Wabbit Ears

Life goes on and if someone is away for that time then nothing changes, bills should still be split 3 ways as always. The other two do not start using more utilities when the 3rd is away so why should they pay his share of standing charges?

No point dancing around a persons personal arrangements, paying bills on their personal work commitments.