Thieving Tenant

Big Davey · 18-12-2013 4:41pm

Ok guys thank you all for the advice. I have several cards to play with these tenants and one of them happens to be that they have a family member in the social welfare. This person was in their local office until a couple of months back and when they moved to another office the tenant immediately stopped paying rent altogether ! Also I have not received one of the letters regarding if the rent is up to date from social welfare for about 3 years the same time that the tenants started falling a bit behind on rent every few months. I made an appointment to meet a prominent TD for today to pass on some "other" information I have that I can not divulge here yet and after a 100 mile trek to Dublin City centre this person skipped off just before our meeting and left me waiting for ages before a security guard made some calls and informed me I had wasted my journey. What is going on in the country ?

runawaybishop · 18-12-2013 4:59pm

Big Davey wrote: »

Ok guys thank you all for the advice. I have several cards to play with these tenants and one of them happens to be that they have a family member in the social welfare. This person was in their local office until a couple of months back and when they moved to another office the tenant immediately stopped paying rent altogether ! Also I have not received one of the letters regarding if the rent is up to date from social welfare for about 3 years the same time that the tenants started falling a bit behind on rent every few months. I made an appointment to meet a prominent TD for today to pass on some "other" information I have that I can not divulge here yet and after a 100 mile trek to Dublin City centre this person skipped off just before our meeting and left me waiting for ages before a security guard made some calls and informed me I had wasted my journey. What is going on in the country ?

Why are you talking to a TD? Just go through the correct legal process.

beauf · 18-12-2013 5:36pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why are you talking to a TD? Just go through the correct legal process.

How long does that take?

(Multiple by rent to estimate loss to LL)

Mrs OBumble · 18-12-2013 8:35pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why are you talking to a TD? Just go through the correct legal process.

Because sometimes, as the OP clearly knows, local relationships can be leveraged to make the problem someone else's.

OP ... think very, very strategically here. Why would the TD not want your information? Who else might be able to use it?

Big Davey · 18-12-2013 10:07pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because sometimes, as the OP clearly knows, local relationships can be leveraged to make the problem someone else's.

OP ... think very, very strategically here. Why would the TD not want your information? Who else might be able to use it?

I hear you !

runawaybishop · 19-12-2013 1:50pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because sometimes, as the OP clearly knows, local relationships can be leveraged to make the problem someone else's.

Well, it seemed it worked out well didn't it? TDs are a great bunch of lads alright :pac:

If the OP has evidence of fraud and the sw office are not listening then the next port of call is a formal complaint or the ombudsman. Not a TD who doesn't want the hassle.

beauf · 19-12-2013 2:01pm

A TD sees a vote. They want that hassle. I've never found the SW the slightest bit interested in dealing with the LL on issues. I tried to find out how long there backlog was in paying RA. Wouldn't tell me. Reported a tenant, I assume it was stopped. Bit I got zero feedback. My attitude is, if they are not interested, there's no incentive for me to be interested in their schemes either.

runawaybishop · 19-12-2013 2:36pm

beauf wrote: »

A TD sees a vote. They want that hassle. I've never found the SW the slightest bit interested in dealing with the LL on issues. I tried to find out how long there backlog was in paying RA. Wouldn't tell me. Reported a tenant, I assume it was stopped. Bit I got zero feedback. My attitude is, if they are not interested, there's no incentive for me to be interested in their schemes either.

Big Davey wrote: »

I made an appointment to meet a prominent TD for today to pass on some "other" information I have that I can not divulge here yet and after a 100 mile trek to Dublin City centre this person skipped off just before our meeting?

Doesn't look that interested to me. You need something with a paper trail.

beauf · 19-12-2013 2:42pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Doesn't look that interested to me. You need something with a paper trail.

Usually you go to your local TD. I'm not so well versed on secret missions to a TD 100 miles away.

runawaybishop · 19-12-2013 2:47pm

beauf wrote: »

Usually you go to your local TD. I'm not so well versed on secret missions to a TD 100 miles away.

Why would you go to your local td to report welfare fraud though?

beauf · 19-12-2013 2:53pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why would you go to your local td to report welfare fraud though?

It wouldn't be the only place I'd report it.

But the TD could raise a political question on such an issue for the minister, who would have to get it checked out. Which might prompt some action down the chain of apathy to the people who should be looking at it.

Triangla · 19-12-2013 2:55pm

Just report it yourself directly here:

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/ReportFraud.aspx

runawaybishop · 19-12-2013 2:55pm

beauf wrote: »

It wouldn't be the only place I'd report it.

But the TD could raise a political question on such an issue for the minister, who would have to get it checked out. Which might prompt some action down the chain of apathy to the people who should be looking at it.

You have more faith than I do I guess

beauf · 19-12-2013 3:43pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

You have more faith than I do I guess

Not faith. Theres always a paper chain of denaibilty.

Mrs OBumble · 19-12-2013 10:02pm

beauf wrote: »

Usually you go to your local TD. I'm not so well versed on secret missions to a TD 100 miles away.

Sometimes TD's from smaller parties can be more, umm, ... effective.

Pro Hoc Vice · 20-12-2013 1:37am

Big Davey wrote: »

Ok guys thank you all for the advice. I have several cards to play with these tenants and one of them happens to be that they have a family member in the social welfare. This person was in their local office until a couple of months back and when they moved to another office the tenant immediately stopped paying rent altogether ! Also I have not received one of the letters regarding if the rent is up to date from social welfare for about 3 years the same time that the tenants started falling a bit behind on rent every few months. I made an appointment to meet a prominent TD for today to pass on some "other" information I have that I can not divulge here yet and after a 100 mile trek to Dublin City centre this person skipped off just before our meeting and left me waiting for ages before a security guard made some calls and informed me I had wasted my journey. What is going on in the country ?

You really thought a TD would seriously touch this issue. This is a bad news story no matter how it turns out. If you get what you want the story is poor Tenant evicted, if you don't get what you want the story is political creation PRTB is a failure.

The Dail created the PRTB and stopped you being able to go straight to the Circuit Court, the PRTB takes a year to register a tenancy seriously how long to get the order. If I was you I would be telling your TD that the PRTB is a disaster.

The only time a TD wants to get involved in housing is when he can write to a person saying my letters got a LA house for you.

Big Davey · 20-12-2013 9:05pm

I will have interesting news in the new year just can't share it right now but watch this space.

Big Davey · 20-12-2013 9:11pm

beauf wrote: »

Usually you go to your local TD. I'm not so well versed on secret missions to a TD 100 miles away.

What if the TD was also a MINISTER ?

Big Davey · 20-12-2013 9:12pm

infosys wrote: »

You really thought a TD would seriously touch this issue. This is a bad news story no matter how it turns out. If you get what you want the story is poor Tenant evicted, if you don't get what you want the story is political creation PRTB is a failure.

The Dail created the PRTB and stopped you being able to go straight to the Circuit Court, the PRTB takes a year to register a tenancy seriously how long to get the order. If I was you I would be telling your TD that the PRTB is a disaster.

The only time a TD wants to get involved in housing is when he can write to a person saying my letters got a LA house for you.

So far I have found the PRTB to be both helpful and efficient.

beauf · 20-12-2013 10:05pm

Big Davey wrote: »

What if the TD was also a MINISTER ?

I'd guess they are unlikely to rock their own boat.

Big Davey · 20-12-2013 10:38pm

beauf wrote: »

I'd guess they are unlikely to rock their own boat.

Exactly !

Pro Hoc Vice · 21-12-2013 12:51am

Big Davey wrote: »

So far I have found the PRTB to be both helpful and efficient.

And a year difference between you and your property.

Pro Hoc Vice · 21-12-2013 12:53am

Big Davey wrote: »

What if the TD was also a MINISTER ?

O FFS. He has ignored you once take his ministry and shove it.

Pawwed Rig · 21-12-2013 9:36am

A TD will not get involved in a housing dispute. Do we not remember the guy who wrote to his constituants about the traveller family? The TD has no upside on this and plenty of downside.
Glad you have found the PRTB to be efficient. They must really have improved dramatically over the last 12 months.

Big Davey · 22-12-2013 9:29am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

A TD will not get involved in a housing dispute. Do we not remember the guy who wrote to his constituants about the traveller family? The TD has no upside on this and plenty of downside.
Glad you have found the PRTB to be efficient. They must really have improved dramatically over the last 12 months.

So far they have been efficient and helpful with me but that could all change who knows. It's not quite a housing dispute and more just some unusual movements with a certain social welfare office that this particular tenant has a high ranking and we'll respected family member in.
On a separate note if a tenant gives "almost" a months notice and thenmoves out "mid" the next month would it ever be considered to give a part of the months rent back or one it is into the next month is the full month owed ? The rent is charged monthly.
I am starting to realise that although I have been renting out houses for many many years now I have actually had a very easy ride and compared to people here had no problems at all just the odd bit of damage etc etc so I am on a bit of a learning curve at the moment.

Big Davey · 22-12-2013 9:39am

infosys wrote: »

And a year difference between you and your property.

A year really ? Please explain your experiences with us.

Big Davey · 22-12-2013 9:44am

infosys wrote: »

O FFS. He has ignored you once take his ministry and shove it.

If I want a meeting with him in the new year I will get it. I pay his wages and will NOT be ignored. This persons dept made a very big announcement on the day I was to meet him so if he could not make that particular meeting sxxt happens.

Pro Hoc Vice · 22-12-2013 9:53am

Big Davey wrote: »

A year really ? Please explain your experiences with us.

It takes a number of months for a determination to issue, then there is an appeal, at the last appeal I was at I was told by the appeal board, that they would make a decision but it would be at least 3 months to be notified that was over 2 months ago. The landlord in that case issued proceedings in excess of a year ago now. If both landlord and Tenant are fighting it takes in excess of 12 months to get a determination. Then and only then can the landlord go to the courts to enforce the order.

I also know for a fact that PRTB have taken in excess of 12 months to register a tenancy, in many cases the tenancy has ended before its even registered.

In the following example from getting PRTB order landlord himself had tennant evicted in 4 months, PRTB who tried to do the same in excess of 10 months and no joy.

"We recently came across a case in which it took the PRTB over ten months from the date of the Order being made by the PRTB to obtain a Circuit Court Order enforcing the Determination Order, all the while the tenant remained in illegal occupation of the landlord’s property. This ten month period does not take into account the actual enforcement of the Circuit Court Order, for example through the Sheriff, and even six months after obtaining the Circuit Court Order there was little progress as regards execution of the Circuit Court Order through the Sheriff.

In comparison we came across a case where the landlord initiated her own civil proceedings, independently of the PRTB, and it took only two months from the receipt of the PRTB Determination Order to obtain a Circuit Court Order enforcing the PRTB Order. The landlord then obtained an Execution Order directed to the Sheriff in less than one month of the Circuit Court Order being made and recovered possession of their property within another month. The landlord successfully recovered possession in less than four months from the date of receipt of the PRTB Determination Order. In this case the landlord took the case herself and had to pay a solicitor and a barrister.

The message is that if you want quick enforcement (for example if your tenant is overholding) and you can afford to do it, then you should instruct your own solicitor to take enforcement proceedings."

http://www.propertyrock.ie/news-and-advice/court-ordered-enforcement-of-prtb-orders-by-the-prtb/

That does not take into account the time to get PRTB determination.

https://www.housing.ie/Our-Publications/Private-Rented-Sector/PRTB_Analysis-of-Determination-Orders-and-Disputes.aspx

Page 27.

Pro Hoc Vice · 22-12-2013 9:57am

Big Davey wrote: »

If I want a meeting with him in the new year I will get it. I pay his wages and will NOT be ignored. This persons dept made a very big announcement on the day I was to meet him so if he could not make that particular meeting sxxt happens.

And what is he going to do, if you have evidence of fraud go to AGS. Why do people in this country go to TD's about personal legal issues. The very fact that people think its not only ok but also a real option, to go to a national politician and minister about a personal criminal matter says all that is wrong in our political system.

Make a complaint to the correct people.

Big Davey · 22-12-2013 10:23am

infosys wrote: »

And what is he going to do, if you have evidence of fraud go to AGS. Why do people in this country go to TD's about personal legal issues. The very fact that people think its not only ok but also a real option, to go to a national politician and minister about a personal criminal matter says all that is wrong in our political system.

Make a complaint to the correct people.

It's not a personal criminal matter it's a suspected fraud against the state of Ireland. A TD is my representative to the government in this matter as I am a tax payer and that's what they are there for to listen to me if they are not interested they are not doing their job. Just remember all I want is the money owed to me and yes sometimes if you are enough of a pain and press the right buttons things just go away that's the country we live in.

Thieving Tenant

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