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Thieving Tenant

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124

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    #92
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Maybe if you had acted as a proper landlord should early in this tenancy you wouldn't need to be going around trying to get Social Welfare and the Tax man to do your work.
    Can you please explain this statement ?


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    #93
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Maybe if you had acted as a proper landlord should early in this tenancy you wouldn't need to be going around trying to get Social Welfare and the Tax man to do your work.
    If I did anything wrong it was just to be too easy going and too decent to this scumbag that's all.


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    #94
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    What happens if the PRTB award you 7-8k, you go to court to enforce it and the tenant has no money to pay it?


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    #95
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    .. or they agree to a payment schedule then don't do it ...

    ... can't get blood from a stone.


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    #96
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,942 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Social welfare can be garnished at source even if its just a fiver a week.


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    #97
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Thargor wrote: »
    Social welfare can be garnished at source even if its just a fiver a week.

    You'd be a long time dead by the time you had paid 7k off a fiver at a fiver a week!


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    #98
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Thargor wrote: »
    Social welfare can be garnished at source even if its just a fiver a week.

    Does this actually happen in this type of situation though? Genuinely asking as I'm not sure of the process. I know they would do it for to recoup an overpayment of benefits but on a private debt?


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    #99
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    There always some hardship (genuine or not) that can be claimed to dilute any of that.

    You also have to find the tenant. The DSP isn't going to help he LL (a third party) in pursuing a tenant.


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    #100
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    beauf wrote: »
    There always some hardship (genuine or not) that can be claimed to dilute any of that.

    You also have to find the tenant. The DSP isn't going to help he LL (a third party) in pursuing a tenant.
    I have no problem finding the Tenants I know where both sets of parents live and where the kids go to school the problem is it may cost me 2k in solicitors fees to get awarded €10 a week I will just wait and see. I don't intend to walk away so we will just see how it goes.
    If the Tenant appeals the PRTB decision what happens then ? We do it all over again I suppose ? Is there any deterrent to stop people appealing or surely everybody appeals ? Another drain on tax payers money. I don't know if the towrag even paid the SW back the rent allowance he spent and now he is demanding to be HOUSED ! Lol


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    #101
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I was making a general point about all LL exposure in similar situations.


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    #102
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    beauf wrote: »
    .. or they agree to a payment schedule then don't do it ...

    ... can't get blood from a stone.
    This family have got plenty of payment schedules of me and never honoured one of them I don't see them changing now.


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    #103
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    beauf wrote: »
    I was making a general point about all LL exposure in similar situations.
    Ok sorry.


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    #104
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Big Davey wrote: »
    This family have got plenty of payment schedules of me and never honoured one of them I don't see them changing now.

    If they won't honour a payment schedule and they don't have the money to pay back 7 grand of debt, why are you hellbent on chasing them for it? I know it's the principle of the matter, but it seems like it's only going to cost you more money again with no return.


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    #105
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    A quick search on www.courts.ie and I have found plenty of instances where the PRTB are actively bringing people to court to secure judgements also their website would lead me to believe that they do follow through on cases any opinions guys ?


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    #106
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,384 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Big Davey wrote: »
    A quick search on www.courts.ie and I have found plenty of instances where the PRTB are actively bringing people to court to secure judgements also their website would lead me to believe that they do follow through on cases any opinions guys ?

    Oh they will bring them to court eventually but they have no real power. The court are the ones that enforce the orders and where the tenant can't or won't pay there is not much comeback for the landlord.


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    #107
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    What happens after that though.


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    #108
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,384 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Sherrif gets involved, Goes to their house, Says they have no property of worth. They may get a conviction for it which will involve going to Mountjoy for half an hour.
    The court may garnish income at a few euro per week eventually.


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    #109
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Sherrif gets involved, Goes to their house, Says they have no property of worth. They may get a conviction for it which will involve going to Mountjoy for half an hour.
    The court may garnish income at a few euro per week eventually.

    At a fiver a week, you'd get barely over the rate of interest that 7-8k would get sitting in the bank.


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    #110
    quietsailor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    Thargor wrote: »
    Social welfare can be garnished at source even if its just a fiver a week.

    Can this type of debt be sold on - I know there are companies that buy commercial debt.

    Maybe if the landlord sold the debt on - even for 10c in the euro they'd get money back.


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    #111
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    quietsailor wrote: »
    Can this type of debt be sold on - I know there are companies that buy commercial debt.

    Maybe if the landlord sold the debt on - even for 10c in the euro they'd get money back.

    Im not sure what happens once the PRTB have ruled. I know that before they have their ruling the landlord cannot do anything to pervert the legal process for chasing tenants in arrears (ie sell the debt on), but once the case has been heard and a ruling has been handed out Im not sure what might happen from there.


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    #112
    jane82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    Id say you have a snowballs chance in hell getting your money back. The only time Ive heard of social welfare deducting money is when they overpaid social welfare.
    The way it will be seen is the man has the very minimum they will threaten him, make orders eventually jail him for 20 minutes then send him on his way.


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    #113
    Jovetic
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jovetic


    jane82 wrote: »
    Id say you have a snowballs chance in hell getting your money back. The only time Ive heard of social welfare deducting money is when they overpaid social welfare.
    The way it will be seen is the man has the very minimum they will threaten him, make orders eventually jail him for 20 minutes then send him on his way.

    This. Social Welfare are not going to refund you because someone didn't pay their debts. You'll have to bear the cost I'm afraid


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    #114
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Big Davey wrote: »
    A quick search on www.courts.ie and I have found plenty of instances where the PRTB are actively bringing people to court to secure judgements also their website would lead me to believe that they do follow through on cases any opinions guys ?

    Davey, a judgment means F all if someone has no assets.


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    #115
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Thargor wrote: »
    Social welfare can be garnished at source even if its just a fiver a week.

    can you show where this has ever happened? Afaik this is not possible on basic social welfare payments.

    It is done in other countries but not here.


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    #116
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    I hope no dodgy Tenants are reading this as they will be encouraged no end to rip off decent law abiding tax paying landlords like myself. I have no problem following this through to the bitter end if not just for entertainment but to see what happens. For me it's a no loose situation at this moment I don't have any justice or money from the former tenant.
    30 mins in mountjoy is better than 0 mins in mountjoy.
    €5 per week is better than €0 per week
    I think things need to change regarding these problems and quick.


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    #117
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    can you show where this has ever happened? Afaik this is not possible on basic social welfare payments.

    It is done in other countries but not here.
    The partner has a job ! (Part time) and AFAIK the family are on some type of FIS with rent allowance so I am still hopeful that they may see sense and get a personal loan or something to pay me some or all of what's owed. Wishful thinking I suppose.


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    #118
    Digital Society
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭Digital Society


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    can you show where this has ever happened? Afaik this is not possible on basic social welfare payments.

    It is done in other countries but not here.

    It is possible and actually very common. Usually fathers who wont pay support and people who get overpaid. i.e not paying rent when claiming rent allowance or claiming while working then being back on the dole again.

    If Davey proved they didnt pay rent while receiving a supplement to do so they will likely have to pay the dole back every cent. Likely 10 euro a week for the next few years.

    Info Here

    Cracked down heavy on this since 2013.


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    #119
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    Yes, pay DSP back, not pay Big Davey. And Big Davey cannot take a case on behalf of DSP.


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    #120
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Digital Society wrote: »
    It is possible and actually very common. Usually fathers who wont pay support and people who get overpaid. i.e not paying rent when claiming rent allowance or claiming while working then being back on the dole again.
    In cases you mention it can only be done with the agreement of the social welfare recipient, also if father's don't pay maintenance it is a different issue as they are failing to obey a court order so will be jailed for non payment.
    If Davey proved they didnt pay rent while receiving a supplement to do so they will likely have to pay the dole back every cent. Likely 10 euro a week for the next few years.

    Info Here

    Cracked down heavy on this since 2013.
    Whether they have to repay anything and the amount they must repay is between the department and the recipient and we can't say what action may or may not be taken but again taking any amount directly from a social welfare payment can only be done with the agreement of the recipient. The department will usually not take further action against people who facilitate recovery of overpayments.

    A persons basic social welfare payment can not be touched by anyone not even the social welfare! and no private company or individual can garnish the payment in any way!


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    #121
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    can you show where this has ever happened? Afaik this is not possible on basic social welfare payments.

    It is done in other countries but not here.

    Something similar happened to me ( although maybe deducations from welfare on your payslip are different)

    Was on social welfare for like 4-5 months while out of work. During that timeframe I never received a penny. Walked int othe office one Friday afternoon and told them I'd secured a job, and and asked what the procedure now was. They said to provide a bank account and they'd transfer over the outstanding funds : /

    Scrapped like a scrounge for 4 months, then get a lump sum? Odd system we have.

    Anyway in work for about 60 days and I get a letter from the social welfare advising I had been provided welfare accidentally, and that the sum paid would be taken from my payslip per month until fully repaid.
    No explanation, no lines for appeal, no nothing.

    After receiving nothing but poor assistance it took me having to launch legal proceedings before it got sorted then rapidly. It turns out there was some overpayment made years ago, and they somehow felt I was overpaid. Got it all paid back to me, again, in a lump.


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