Thieving Tenant

TheDoc

Also OP you've mentioned debt collectors a number of times in the thread.

Are you familiar with how they work operate?

You realise they are totally powerless, have no authority, and are nothing but a waste of time, money and effort, right?

Big Davey

TheDoc wrote: »

Also OP you've mentioned debt collectors a number of times in the thread.

Are you familiar with how they work operate?

You realise they are totally powerless, have no authority, and are nothing but a waste of time, money and effort, right?

Please explain ? I have not used debt collectors before but by the sound of things you have. Could you share your experiences with us all please ?

Penny Tration

Big Davey wrote: »

Please explain ? I have not used debt collectors before but by the sound of things you have. Could you share your experiences with us all please ?

Debt collectors have no legal standing in Ireland. People pay them out of fear. They can write to you as much as they like, but legally there's nothing they can do.

Big Davey

green_screen wrote: »

Debt collectors have no legal standing in Ireland. People pay them out of fear. They can write to you as much as they like, but legally there's nothing they can do.

They seem to work for some people though ! I understand they have no legal standing. Have you ever used one ?

Penny Tration

Big Davey wrote: »

They seem to work for some people though ! I understand they have no legal standing. Have you ever used one ?

The reason they work is because people see an official looking letter, get scared and pay up. People who have screwed you around this may know their rights very well, and not bother paying.

Nope, I've never had to use one.

Pawwed Rig

I got a letter once from a collection agency. Think it was for an electric charge which I had nothing to do with but they decided to put my name on it (long story). I just ignored it and never heard from them again. They may have called to the house but I don't answer the door anyway so don't really know.

TheDoc

Big Davey wrote: »

Please explain ? I have not used debt collectors before but by the sound of things you have. Could you share your experiences with us all please ?

Two examples I can provide

The first is when I worked for a sole trader, we purchased a new POS system for Xk euro, and there was numerous delays on delivery. It then transpired the company was going under. We followed numerous procedures to retrieve our money, but we were at the tail end of a long line of creditors. Our final discussion with the supplier was essentially he was skint, and to **** off annoying him. Completely out of pocket, that investment was substantial for a company of our size. We were advised to look into debt collection and hired a firm that looked professional and throughout the consultation process provided a very proffesional front.

The terms of the agreement vary. You can HIRE a debt collection agency, whose task is to essentially recoup as much of the debt as possibly, and they then take a percentage.

Or you can SELL the debt. So if let's say the debt was 5,000 , you might sell it to a debt collection agency for 2,000. You get 2,000 on whats looked like a lost cause, and they go off on their own to reclaim the full 5,000 ( making their profit that way)

We went with the hiring method, and actually did recoup the full amount minus costs of the contract. However we then learned through a third party of the methods by which the debtor was subjected to, and we felt immediate regret and uncomfort at what took place, essentially on our behalf.

Debt collection agencies have no legal powers i nthis country. Absolutely zero. The height of their ability is to send legal letters, but to be fair, if your looking at debt collection, you've probably already pursued and provided legal letters that have already being ignored, so more isnt going to change the issue.

Last year I was on the receiving end of a debt collector. The previous tennants in the apartment had MASSIVE debts with the landlord, utilities companies, and just about anyone you could think off. So one of these companies HIRED a debt collection agency to retrieve the outstanding balance.

So fast forward to debt collector at my door, with his colleague standing out at the end of the hall , clearly "keeping sketch". Outlined the amount owed, and gave some bull**** about his authority which I first off dismissed and told him not to even bother trying anything with me, I know its bollox.
This is after I'd attempted to explain I'm not the person he is after, but I guess with hindsight I could see he probably got that alot.

So after about ten minutes of this, and the girlfriend coming to the door twice and me telling her to go back inside, he ramped up the situation by saying if I didn't pay him the money owed, he'd be coming into the apartment to claim property to the value(also outlined he was entitled to do this) so I told him to get ****ed. As I was closing the door, he rushed me. Door flung open and smashed into my face, and as he moved into the hallway, I kicked lumps out of him. I flung him out into the hall and into his colleague, and told them if they came back X Y Z.
Ironically they called the Guards on me, and I had a squad car down "answering to a complaint of assault". After explaining the situation, providing my ID, the Guards quickly sided with me. I was informed this can happen from time to time, as Debt collectors use intimidating tactics, and people arn't aware of their standing in the country.

The guy who rushed me( now sitting in his van out in the carpark) was taken away in cuffs for assault, intimidation and tresspassing with a view to harm. The company that "hired" the debt collection agency, also got in legal trouble, as it was viewed that they hired this agency to intimidate the debtor into paying.

So I'd tread pretty carefully in regards to where you go with this. I know you've shared some figures in regards to what you are owed, and I can tell you that I was advised I would receive ALOT more if I pursued a lawsuit against the debt collection agency AND the company that hired them. I didn't pursue it any further as I was happy with the actions the police took.


I can see you've already gone through a court sitting for this issue, and have a solictor involved and I assume legal notice has been provided to the tennant. A debt collection agency can do NOTHING more then what you have already done, but can bring you ALOT of bother. It would also just look poor from your part, the vast majority of informed people, hold no regard for debt collection agencies, not the people that employ them.

TheDoc

Big Davey wrote: »

They seem to work for some people though ! I understand they have no legal standing. Have you ever used one ?

Also, it doesn't take a genius to put together how an agency can retrieve money form a debtor, while holding no power of authority what so ever.

Appreciate you've outlined that you have no care or worry for the individual involved, and that's fine. And I'm sure there are some really good debt collection agencies, but they are just solicitors who specialise in debt collection.

You can easily get caught up in a bad one, that send people to houses to intimidate, and you can quickly get the flack for that one.

You've said previously your solicitor specialises in debt collection, so you effectively already have the best of debt collection going for you.

quietsailor

I'm the person that started the question of selling the debt in this thread - just to point something out;

The last few posts have been about debt collectors and their methods of collecting money - as if big davey wanted to recoup all the debt and hired someone to get it for him.

I'm talking about selling the debt - which is done a lot commercially - and then big davey has finished with the debt. They're two different things, commercially anyway - I was wondering if it's the same in tenancies and if anyone had done it/seen it carried out.

Big Davey

quietsailor wrote: »

I'm the person that started the question of selling the debt in this thread - just to point something out;

The last few posts have been about debt collectors and their methods of collecting money - as if big davey wanted to recoup all the debt and hired someone to get it for him.

I'm talking about selling the debt - which is done a lot commercially - and then big davey has finished with the debt. They're two different things, commercially anyway - I was wondering if it's the same in tenancies and if anyone had done it/seen it carried out.

Just for the record here I would sell the debt on if I could get a good company recommended to me or I will find one myself when the time comes but at the moment I am waiting on a PRTB judgement and will follow through when all appeals or whatever happens as you can imagine its a waiting game and I can only take it as it comes.

djimi

quietsailor wrote: »

I'm the person that started the question of selling the debt in this thread - just to point something out;

The last few posts have been about debt collectors and their methods of collecting money - as if big davey wanted to recoup all the debt and hired someone to get it for him.

I'm talking about selling the debt - which is done a lot commercially - and then big davey has finished with the debt. They're two different things, commercially anyway - I was wondering if it's the same in tenancies and if anyone had done it/seen it carried out.

I have no experience of how it works, but I would imagine that when it comes to tenancy debt there is no benefit in a debt collector getting involved, as they will be tied to the same legal system as everyone else, and has just as much (or as little) chance of getting paid as the landlord would. Its not an easy debt to collect.

foggy_lad

quietsailor wrote: »

I'm the person that started the question of selling the debt in this thread - just to point something out;

The last few posts have been about debt collectors and their methods of collecting money - as if big davey wanted to recoup all the debt and hired someone to get it for him.

I'm talking about selling the debt - which is done a lot commercially - and then big davey has finished with the debt. They're two different things, commercially anyway - I was wondering if it's the same in tenancies and if anyone had done it/seen it carried out.

A company can sell on the debt to anyone they like but the customer has a contract with the original company and nobody else and that can't be changed by anyone else without their agreement.

Big Davey

foggy_lad wrote: »

A company can sell on the debt to anyone they like but the customer has a contract with the original company and nobody else and that can't be changed by anyone else without their agreement.

So are you saying a debt can not be sold on legally without the consent on both parties ? I doubt many debtors would agree to this so it's seems there is a difference of opinion on this then as other posters seem to think a debt can be easily sold on. Maybe after a court decision the debt can be sold on ? I have not asked my solicitor about this as it is quite a bit away at this moment.

Ken.

Big Davey wrote: »

So are you saying a debt can not be sold on legally without the consent on both parties ? I doubt many debtors would agree to this so it's seems there is a difference of opinion on this then as other posters seem to think a debt can be easily sold on. Maybe after a court decision the debt can be sold on ? I have not asked my solicitor about this as it is quite a bit away at this moment.

Check the small print on any contract from a bank,utility company etc and there is most likely a clause giving them permission to assign the debt in the event you don't pay. You could try sticking it in the next lease you draw up.

djimi

ken wrote: »

Check the small print on any contract from a bank,utility company etc and there is most likely a clause giving them permission to assign the debt in the event you don't pay. You could try sticking it in the next lease you draw up.

Im not really sure what benefit that would be to put it in a lease? At what point in the process could the debt be sold on? After the PRTB have ruled? Wouldnt the landlord still need to go to the courts to seek payment? Can that step be skipped?

Big Davey

djimi wrote: »

Im not really sure what benefit that would be to put it in a lease? At what point in the process could the debt be sold on? After the PRTB have ruled? Wouldnt the landlord still need to go to the courts to seek payment? Can that step be skipped?

PRTB can not be skipped.

djimi

Big Davey wrote: »

PRTB can not be skipped.

No I know, I mean once the PRTB have had their ruling could you skip the having to get a court ruling and let the debt collector sort it out? Id be very surprised if you could (or at the very least I would imagine they would have to follow the same process).

Ken.

djimi wrote: »

Im not really sure what benefit that would be to put it in a lease? At what point in the process could the debt be sold on? After the PRTB have ruled? Wouldnt the landlord still need to go to the courts to seek payment? Can that step be skipped?

I only come up with the amazing ideas. Others can fine tune the awesomeness.

Pelvis Parsley

Just checking in to wish the OP the best of luck.

Scumbags and wasters such as that tenant deserve to be taught a lesson.

rawn

Pelvis Parsley wrote: »

Just checking in to wish the OP the best of luck.

Scumbags and wasters such as that tenant deserve to be taught a lesson.

+1 to this. People like him make it near impossible for decent folk like myself and others that require RA to find a place to live.

quietsailor

Heres a british company that buys debt - this is the IDEA of what I'm talking about these are a UK company so I doubt they are any good in Ireland.
They are Debt Purchasers NOT Debt Collectors as people are thinking of them in this thread ie bully boys hired by Big Davey to rough up his thieving tenants to get his money back. With Debt purchasers Big Davey sells the debt - for example - 20 cents on every Euro owed and then is finished with the whole thing.

Intrum Debt Purchasers - will purchase private debt - doesn't say if it will purchase tenants debts
Cabot Financial - they talk about rent reciever services so maybe they will take on Big Davey's type of debt.

Big Davey - don't think I'm taking digs at you here, it's just easier to use you as an example.

Graces7

Big Davey; I applaud your tenacity!

You mentioned way back re Social Welfare. the only way sadly to get any action often IS to mention the words "formal complaint". It acts like a dose of salts as they have to investigate etc.

And please, do not judge all RA tenants by these *******. I have been on RA many years and have never ever been late with the rent in any tenancy and have never trashed a place etc. Always leave it better than when I came in which often is not saying much!

My current landlord had dreadful tenants before me. Not RA and they left owing rent and and a power bill he thought he had to pay and did damage here.

Surely landlords can tell when they interview tenants if they are safe on rent etc. eg a single pensioner as against a young family maybe.

Makes me ashamed to be bracketed with these ones you had.

Big Davey

Quick update,
I won the PRTB case and am very happy with how the PRTB have acted so far I received a fair hearing and then received a well written determination order which has awarded me the rent arrears and a fair amount of money for the damage to my property. The former tenant has a few months to come up with the money and if not we will see what happens then....................
Will keep you all updated and thanks to all who commented or pm'd me.

Ted_YNWA

Great to hear Davey, hopefully you will get all of money owed to you.

Pawwed Rig

Big Davey wrote: »

received a well written determination order which has awarded me the rent arrears and a fair amount of money for the damage to my property.

I have one of those. I've had it for a couple of years now actually. Still have no money and still the case grinds on and on.:mad:

Big Davey

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have one of those. I've had it for a couple of years now actually. Still have no money and still the case grinds on and on.:mad:

I don't expect it to be a quick resolution but it's good to have. I intend to push and push with this until the bitter end.
With regard to your own case stick with it, it's not costing you money it should not be causing you stress just don't let them away it.