Walsh Park and GAA

Max Powers

I see in the Munster express that Waterford will lose out on ability to stage home games in this years season due to lack of capacity in Walsh Park. The dog in the street could see this happening decades ago when ticket money is so important to an organisation such as the GAA and with other developing decent grounds (Cork, KK, Galway, kerry, Tipp etc etc), what were Waterford GAA thinking (or not thinking i suppose).
Who's idiot idea was it that a county as small as Waterford should have 2 rubbish grounds when Cork, Galway (much larger in size) have 1 ground.

Yes I assume an opportunity was probably there when the good times were in, that is gone now. Nobody any time soon is going to pay millions to build there, i wonder is there a plan in place?

Is there a plan in place to develop Walsh Park into a decent 30-35 ground?
Could it be done backing up onto houses? probably not so a new ground is inevitably needed unless they could develop 3 sides of the ground to get 30-35k in gate.

Obviously Limerick are a special case with money parachuted in from a couple of big benefactors.

Could a joint approach with Waterford United or WIT be pursued? Difficulties with pitch size etc down in RSC possibly. Is Carriganore the answer? im not mad on pitches you cant walk to or have brilliant metro links etc. Waterford GAA is skint at the moment but, what were they doing the last 50 years? is there a plan?

wellboytoo

Max I had a long answer written but I deleted it, as I don't really need another ping pong thread! but suffice to say when I stuck my head in that door years ago such a pool of civil war politics, petty parochialism I have never seen before or since.

Max Powers

wellboytoo wrote: »

Max I had a long answer written but I deleted it, as I don't really need another ping pong thread! but suffice to say when I stuck my head in that door years ago such a pool of civil war politics, petty parochialism I have never seen before or since.

yeah i can imagine, i reckon you get that parochial nonsense in every county in Ireland though. I guess the crux is, situation we are in is unacceptable (I think everyone will agree on that) so what are we/GAA/other sporting orgs doing to sort it? my guess is F-all and when i hear F-all of a plan in place I despair. People in Dungarvan could hardly think that this 2 stadium thing is working out best for us.

We could do with a decent stadium to host not only sporting events but concerts every now and again. Eg if Day tripper grew, spraoi annual gig, ad hoc event like tall ships.

shockwave

Where do you expect 30.000 people to park if you redevelop it there?

lertsnim

They should have sold off Walsh Park at the height of the boom. Some fools.

JaneDoe111

Too late now...the IRFU bid for RWC will include Semple, Fitzgerald, Pairc Ui Caoimhe but nothing here. what folly.

Max Powers

JaneDoe111 wrote: »

Too late now...the IRFU bid for RWC will include Semple, Fitzgerald, Pairc Ui Caoimhe but nothing here. what folly.

exactly, this is the point, not only are we losing out on GAA games and concerts, when something big happens, we are not in the running. Having said that, put a plan in place and in 10-15 years we could be ready for the next big thing

The_Shotz

shockwave wrote: »

Where do you expect 30.000 people to park if you redevelop it there?

Parking isn't an issue, for the simple reason, where do 20, 000+ people park in Nolan Park (kilkenny), where do 50, 000+ people park in semple stadium (thurles), where do 70, 000+ people park in Croke Park (Dublin), the list goes on.

None of the stadiums above are supplied with large car parks.

Thats like saying we can't hold the tall ships here, where would 500, 000+ people park?

If (not that it ever will be) Walsh Park was developed to such a capacity there is plenty of parking near by. Tesco Lisduggan, WIT, RSC, Industrial Estate, De La Salle, Roanmore and Mount Sion GAA pitches, Old Kilmeaden Road, park and ride facility (plenty of fields), reach a deal with the car parks on the Quays its no further a walk then been on the out skirts of Thurles.

If 30, 000 people were attending, a good chunk of that crowd would be walking to Walsh Park as a big city following would attend such a game, which decreases the parking straight away!

south

I'd say they'd have problems getting planning for high stands on the Griffiths place side and also Ard Na Greine end.

Max Powers

south wrote: »

I'd say they'd have problems getting planning for high stands on the Griffiths place side and also Ard Na Greine end.

yeah I mentioned that and your right that would be an issue. I think some people might think that Walsh park is simply not the right place then. Or, could they just build big(ish) on 3 sides. Anyway, the question is, if they think that the place is unsuitable, whats the plan to move to somewhere more suitable?
If there is no plan in place, we simply will not be able to capitalise on a opportunity if it arrives, stranger things have happened. Are Waterford GAA so incompetent that the issue is just left where it is, kick the can down the road.
Cork and Galway already have plans to increase their stadiums and there's are in better shape then ours already.

revisionist

The obvious choice of ground location was Dungarvan . It is central and there is a lot of space on the town side of the ground to expand. Walsh park is absolutely hampered by lack of space. Dungarvan was the obvious choice from day 1.

The_Shotz

revisionist wrote: »

The obvious choice of ground location was Dungarvan . It is central and there is a lot of space on the town side of the ground to expand. Walsh park is absolutely hampered by lack of space. Dungarvan was the obvious choice from day 1.

Oh oh, you've just started the whole east V west debate!!! :-D

I'm not sure been central should have anything to do with it.

Waterford county have a population of 100, 000 approx with roughly 70, 000 of that 100 living in or near Waterford City.

In that sense I think waterford is the more viable option.

I think the mistake was made a long time ago where I believe the County board should of bought the Tycor football pitches opposite Walsh Park.

I would love to see us with a decent ground, the stand in Walsh Park is a shambles, it would be possible with some sensible planning to make Walsh Park a 18, 000 - 20, 000 capacity which is probably all we need in Waterford.

Even with that we woukd be limited to holding concerts due to it been in a residential area, and also the lack of flood lights is a blow which was knocked on planning I think.

Due to a lack of vision/money I think both grounds are pretty much stuck as they are for a while.

revisionist

Those statistics are not borne out by the 2011 census. 46000 city to 66000 county. Given that the bulk of the population is within 20 miles of Dungarvan it is still and always was the natural location for a major county ground. The road connecting Dungarvan and Waterford is excellent , and Dungarvan has multiple access points from east and west makes it simply the best and obvious choice.To suggest that the location of the ground is not a factor is a tad facetious. The farthest Dungarvan is from any point is 30 miles while Waterford is the guts of 50 miles plus from some of the GAA hotbeds of the west. The logic I am employing is the same used in Kerry where the preferred choice is Killarney over the larger centre in Tralee..

BBM77

Oh christ this is pathetic. I am not even into the GAA and the state of Walsh Park embarrasses me, to think that people coming to Waterford to see a game have to walk into that 1930’s shack. Anybody with half a brain cell could work out Waterford city has the population and population density to sustain a stadium. The 66000 for the county is spread over a large area and as has been mentioned a large proportion of that is around the city. Tramore is the biggest county town now in population terms again near the city.

The_Shotz

revisionist wrote: »

Those statistics are not borne out by the 2011 census. 46000 city to 66000 county.

As I said my figures were approx as I stated waterford city and surrounding areas i.e Tramore roughly 10, 000 approx.

Anyhow I wasn't trying to add fuel to the west V east debate as I feel that often is the biggest problem in Waterford.

The county board should of bought the land behing and beside Faher Field but for some reason they didn't and unfortunately they only area to expand now is behing the stand.

Is it worth anything putting money into either ground. I'm not sure.

One thing the county board need to do is come up with some sort of a plan for either dungarvan or waterford or even a new location

obezyana

They should of built a new stadium of sorts out in carrignore it would of added to the already fantastic complex out there already.

The_Shotz

obezyana wrote: »

They should of built a new stadium of sorts out in carrignore it would of added to the already fantastic complex out there already.

They were talks of that when carrignore was been built, something along the lines of the county board going 50/50 with WIT to build a 30, 000 fully seated stadium.

Why something like that wouldn't or didn't happen I don't know but it certinaly seems like the most cost effective and sensible solution.

Max Powers

unless a site in city centre becomes more viable, then this (carriganore above) looks like best option probably. I wonder are the GAA/WIT/whomever doing anything to help this vision come to pass? no plan = nothing will happen

obezyana

Id say it didnt happen because of money issues even the building out in carrignore wasnt fully finished because of a lack of funds.

Max Powers

obezyana wrote: »

Id say it didnt happen because of money issues even the building out in carrignore wasnt fully finished because of a lack of funds.

yeah of course, we all know money is an issue and reasons why it didnt happen, they shoulda sold walsh park in good times etc etc. whats irritating is the lack of plan. Surely if a plan was developed, then they could set up a site development committee and lottery, apply for lottery grant aid, sports grants, Council, WIT and other sports orgs could chip in when money appears again. some sort of joined up thinking, it would seem there is no joined up thinking in Waterford GAA and that they are an incompetent bunch of wasters (Obviously not the players who are all legends)

revisionist

The_Shotz wrote: »

As I said my figures were approx as I stated waterford city and surrounding areas i.e Tramore roughly 10, 000 approx.

Anyhow I wasn't trying to add fuel to the west V east debate as I feel that often is the biggest problem in Waterford.

The county board should of bought the land behing and beside Faher Field but for some reason they didn't and unfortunately they only area to expand now is behing the stand.

Is it worth anything putting money into either ground. I'm not sure.

One thing the county board need to do is come up with some sort of a plan for either dungarvan or waterford or even a new location

Definitely not worth putting a shilling into Walsh Park . Crowded entrance no room to expand , already in built up area , not in central location county wise which is vital. The real GAA heartland is in the west of the county, not a matter for debate really. The land behind the goal in the Fraher field is more available now than ever and the old sports-ground beside the new stand affords lots of space so I dont know where you are coming from there.Using the old East v West argument is not an option ,as in this case it is simple logic that dictates that Walsh Park should be sold for housing,or maybe to a developer and the funds used to develop one ground of inter county standard in the Fraher Field. It is obvious as well that this the most historic venue having hosted more All Ireland finals than any other venue outside of Croke Park should be the natural choice for county ground....

Smiley Burnett

The_Shotz wrote: »

As I said my figures were approx as I stated waterford city and surrounding areas i.e Tramore roughly 10, 000 approx.

Anyhow I wasn't trying to add fuel to the west V east debate as I feel that often is the biggest problem in Waterford.

The county board should of bought the land behing and beside Faher Field but for some reason they didn't and unfortunately they only area to expand now is behing the stand.

Is it worth anything putting money into either ground. I'm not sure.

One thing the county board need to do is come up with some sort of a plan for either dungarvan or waterford or even a new location

GAA own the land adjacent to Fraher Field...currently used as a car park etc on match days...

wellboytoo

Know zilch about GAA but Walsh park not fit for purpose forget about it. Fraher field away from the main population and not near a motorway, close it as well, as the finished product will have to be able to do more than GAA matches to survive the cost . WIT was the obvious horse to ride but that is probably gone as well.worth a try to see if there is any chance of throwing in their lot with WIT.
After that there are very few options as the value of both old fields is very low at the moment so seed capital is not readily available, it is actually a non runner full stop untill some value is realised from the two grounds.
In reality the GAA should probably set up a little committee that knows f all about gaa but a lot about property to have a cogent plan for the future.

revisionist

wellboytoo wrote: »

Know zilch about GAA but Walsh park not fit for purpose forget about it. Fraher field away from the main population and not near a motorway, close it as well, as the finished product will have to be able to do more than GAA matches to survive the cost . WIT was the obvious horse to ride but that is probably gone as well.worth a try to see if there is any chance of throwing in their lot with WIT.
After that there are very few options as the value of both old fields is very low at the moment so seed capital is not readily available, it is actually a non runner full stop untill some value is realised from the two grounds.
In reality the GAA should probably set up a little committee that knows f all about gaa but a lot about property to have a cogent plan for the future.

You want it near the""main population"" What does that exactly mean ? It should be central full stop not located at the eastern most part of the county in a shoneen heartland.

gw80

revisionist wrote: »

You want it near the""main population"" What does that exactly mean ? It should be central full stop not located at the eastern most part of the county in a shoneen heartland.

"shoneen heartland" GTFO you tool:rolleyes:

The_Shotz

revisionist wrote: »

The land behind the goal in the Fraher field is more available now than ever and the old sports-ground beside the new stand affords lots of space so I dont know where you are coming from there.

I know there is room behind the bank at the river end. At the town end bank is there not an industrial complex of sort?

The bank opposite the stand there is a road. I know about the field behind the stand which could be used.

I don't think selling walsh park would raise enouhh funds in the current climate.

I notice central location in county is a big thing, but you are really moving it from the majority of population.

As previous stated Waterford city, Tramore, kilmeaden, dunmore, butlerstown and the other towns/villages in that area we are talking close to a population of 65-70k.

A few issues with Dungarvan would be transport, not serviced by a train station/motorway, possible lack of parking (which is a problem everywhere to be fair). Dungarvan isn't as accessable as you suggest.

Developing either ground would most likely be a waste of money. Ideally the proposal with WIT would have been the best solution, while also keeping faher field for club games/inter county league games

I'd say were are stuck with both grounds for a long time to come doubt the debate between easy v west will always rage on.

wellboytoo

revisionist wrote: »

You want it near the""main population"" What does that exactly mean ? It should be central full stop not located at the eastern most part of the county in a shoneen heartland.

I mean it in a sense of where the bulk of the population is because that is where all the services are.
Bus . Taxi. Hotels . Restaurant s trains .hospital airport .in one place to feed the big bloody monster that is a sports stadium.

I think you missed my point when I said I know zilch about GAA and that is the whole point you cannot locate a structure this size with other than a business head on you or its doomed from the start. Btw the business case would be tenuous in the exrtreme to justify the capital cost !

blue note

revisionist wrote: »

The real GAA heartland is in the west of the county, not a matter for debate really.

Yeah, a county championship went there in 2007 and you just have to go back to 1993 for one before that!

Look, there's plenty of great clubs and people in both the east and west and western clubs will win county titles in the future, but the city is more accessible for more people.

For example, there's a bus from Tramore to Waterford, but none to Dungarvan. There's 11,000 people served by public transport by putting it in Waterford that wouldn't be if it was in Dungarvan. And 45,000 people could walk to the game if it was in Waterford compared to about 8,000 in Dungarvan. And there are trains and far more buses to Waterford than Dungarvan. Any time I go from Dublin to matches in Thurles / Cork the roads and trains are packed with fans. Waterford would be more convenient for the many Dublin based Waterford fans as well.

Dickys Back Garden

revisionist wrote: »

You want it near the""main population"" What does that exactly mean ? It should be central full stop not located at the eastern most part of the county in a shoneen heartland.

What an idiotic and ignorant choice of word! "Revisionist" indeed! Oh the irony of it! Small wonder this county has a regressive infrastructure when stereotypes and opinions like yours prevail in many quarters!

Dickys Back Garden

Yet to hear a Davins or Swans man moan about the trip to Thurles. Mooncoin men don't whinge about the spin to Kilkenny. Christ, lads in Dingle or Valentia don't bemoan the spin to Fitzgerald Stadium! I don't see the Bantry Blues refusing to play in the Páirc! Glenties lads are mad to play in Ballyshannon! I could go on!

Logistically, financially and in every way bar discommoding a small number of people (which will happen wherever a stadium was located) the obvious location would have to be Waterford City. It's a non debate and it simply requires strong leadership to purge age old ignorance and scaremongering. Alas that might not be forthcoming given the political and intransigent nature of county boards as a whole, not necessarily confined to the Waterford situation. Pity really. We are actually one county, not two and the sooner we all realise that the sooner we'll have a stadium we can all proudly call our own and we might be sitting together in a home venue watching Tipp or Cork being put to the sword! Can but dream I suppose!

revisionist

Dickys Back Garden wrote: »

What an idiotic and ignorant choice of word! "Revisionist" indeed! Oh the irony of it! Small wonder this county has a regressive infrastructure when stereotypes and opinions like yours prevail in many quarters!

The fact is that Waterford has historically been a garrison town largely unsympathetic to nationalist and by natural proression GAA ideals. When the first soldiers marched into Waterford after the withdrawal of the Devonshires they were spat upon and jeered by crowds of local people. Waterford was regarded as a hotbed of recruitment in the 1st world war and was regarded as only second to Belfast in loyalty to the crown. Generations of loyalty to the King OR Queen .The great Dan Fraher a staunch republican was the oldest internee in Ballykinlar Co Down and it would be a great tribute to him to establish the ground in the heart of the county. As for my title it is meant to be ironic...;)