Dog killed and mutilated in its own garden by a pack of hunting dogs

DBB

Imhof Tank wrote: »

There is a lot of talk in favour of:-

1. Having all the hounds put down immediately
2. Having the hunt disbanded permanently
3. Having the huntsman, whips and masters jailed
4. Having the followers hunted themselves to the death by a pack of wolves

Ah yes, nice to see good, reasoned, rational, balanced debate on the issue...
I'm frequently appalled at man's injustice to animals. But reactions like the above make me have no time or respect for the other extreme of this s,pectrum either. That goes for all injustices to animals.

DBB

Snickers Man wrote: »

A quick Google search reveals that the Journal.ie and the Irish Mirror have picked up and reported the story verbatim as it appears on the Facebook page, .

The reason I picked the journal to link to is because it specifically states that Bray Hunt have ackowledged the incident.
You may be sceptical of this, but I chose this article as it relays info from both parties.
There is also an eye-witness account of events in this very thread. Unless, of course, they're lying too.

fits

I was going to venture into the rabble and enlighten them that it was a drag hunt yesterday but figured its not worth the hassle.

That said, horse riders have a serious image problem. (foot packs don't invoke near as violent a response)

noodler

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Hounds were not hunting any trail at the time - this was 100 yards away from the meet going back, a gate left open and the pack got in the garden and ..............

I really think that the gate being open or not is a pretty secondary issue.

What kind of prosecution can these people expect for failing to control their animals?

Imhof Tank

noodler wrote: »

I really think that the gate being open or not is a pretty secondary issue.

What kind of prosecution can these people expect for failing to control their animals?

It is relevant to an assessment of how in control the whips (:rolleyes:) were

big_heart_on

This really highlights the dangers of drag hunting and allowing packs of hunting dogs to roam across the countryside unleashed & unmuzzled.

The gate question is only a means of deflecting responsibility from the hunt to the family, as if people should be expecting a pack of hounds to come tearing into their garden in search of something to tear to pieces.

The hounds may well have to be put down now, how could they be used off the leash and unmuzzled again when they have history? They are unsuited for any other purpose or adoption.

Why is the Bray hunt active in Ashford anyway? Is it because of the incidents I've heard of around Bray involving other dogs being killed by out of control hounds?

Stinicker

Bad day for dogs in Ireland so it seems

http://www.thejournal.ie/puppy-found-shot-in-athlone-1201660-Dec2013/

Not getting the hate against the Hunt, mistakes happen and so is life. People love to hate on Hunts due to their perceived upper class nature and it boils down to class snobbery. Foxes are vermin and should be eradicated which is what alot of hunts do but the Hunt in question here seems to have only been following a sniffer trail.

The poor little doggy met a sad and cruel end and that is no doubt but should have been kept in a secure place while a hunt was nearby. Dogs have no concept of private property and the hounds that killed the small dog did nothing wrong from their point of view.

It seems an unfortunate accident that should not have happened but it and nothing will ever change that now. There are some Animal rights lunatics who would make more noise about this than if it was child who was hurt or killed.

ardmacha

The poor little doggy met a sad and cruel end and that is no doubt but should have been kept in a secure place while a hunt was nearby.

So the inhabtants have to cower in their houses while the <snip> go by. Dogs may not have the concept of private property but they should be trained not to attach other dogs be under the control of a person who can tell them to vacate private property. Individual dogs get all to all sorts, but if you assemble a pack of dogs you need a higher standard because that pack is more dangerous.

I asked nicely that people don't go down the class divide route in this thread. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Thanks,
DBB

big_heart_on

Stinicker wrote: »

Bad day for dogs in Ireland so it seems

http://www.thejournal.ie/puppy-found-shot-in-athlone-1201660-Dec2013/

Not getting the hate against the Hunt, mistakes happen and so is life. People love to hate on Hunts due to their perceived upper class nature and it boils down to class snobbery. Foxes are vermin and should be eradicated which is what alot of hunts do but the Hunt in question here seems to have only been following a sniffer trail.

The poor little doggy met a sad and cruel end and that is no doubt but should have been kept in a secure place while a hunt was nearby. Dogs have no concept of private property and the hounds that killed the small dog did nothing wrong from their point of view.

It seems an unfortunate accident that should not have happened but it and nothing will ever change that now. There are some Animal rights lunatics who would make more noise about this than if it was child who was hurt or killed.

The hate against the hunt boils down to their out of control dogs tearing apart a family pet in their own garden in front of the family! The hunt failed to control their dogs, failed to prepare properly and inform landowners of the hunt taking place. Foxes are native wildlife and "vermin" is just a BS term employed by people who want to hunt them.

Dubl07

Stinicker wrote: »

Bad day for dogs in Ireland so it seems

http://www.thejournal.ie/puppy-found-shot-in-athlone-1201660-Dec2013/

Not getting the hate against the Hunt, mistakes happen and so is life. People love to hate on Hunts due to their perceived upper class nature and it boils down to class snobbery. Foxes are vermin and should be eradicated which is what alot of hunts do but the Hunt in question here seems to have only been following a sniffer trail.

The poor little doggy met a sad and cruel end and that is no doubt but should have been kept in a secure place while a hunt was nearby. Dogs have no concept of private property and the hounds that killed the small dog did nothing wrong from their point of view.

It seems an unfortunate accident that should not have happened but it and nothing will ever change that now. There are some Animal rights lunatics who would make more noise about this than if it was child who was hurt or killed.

:rolleyes: I hadn't weighed in as yet but while I love animals including horses and dogs, I was glad that a child wasn't the prey of this pack of hounds. It was bad enough that a pet dog was torn apart. It could easily have been much worse.

The hunters seem to have had made little or no effort to let people know the time or whereabouts of the hunt. In any case, it's not up to the owners of property to fence and gate themselves into compounds to keep themselves, their families and livestock safe from marauding beasts. We're talking about rural Ireland, not rural Africa.

OldNotWIse

Stinicker wrote: »

Bad day for dogs in Ireland so it seems

http://www.thejournal.ie/puppy-found-shot-in-athlone-1201660-Dec2013/

Not getting the hate against the Hunt, mistakes happen and so is life. People love to hate on Hunts due to their perceived upper class nature and it boils down to class snobbery. Foxes are vermin and should be eradicated which is what alot of hunts do but the Hunt in question here seems to have only been following a sniffer trail.

The poor little doggy met a sad and cruel end and that is no doubt but should have been kept in a secure place while a hunt was nearby. Dogs have no concept of private property and the hounds that killed the small dog did nothing wrong from their point of view.

It seems an unfortunate accident that should not have happened but it and nothing will ever change that now. There are some Animal rights lunatics who would make more noise about this than if it was child who was hurt or killed.

Whats that got to do with anything? A child wasn't hurt or killed, and if it had been, it would be an entirely different matter. I would be enraged if this happened too - dogs and children are not mutually exclusive you know - caring about one does not mean you dont care about the other. Statements like that, like those "it could have been a child!" hysterical outbursts are ridiuculous and irrelevant.

And since when do owners have an obligation to keep their pets indoors in case they get mauled by a pack of dogs that are passing? The dog was in its own garden for fuuck sake.

This actually makes me feel sick. <snip>

Please desist from such inflammatory posting.
Thanks,
DBB

Snickers Man

DBB wrote: »

The reason I picked the journal to link to is because it specifically states that Bray Hunt have ackowledged the incident.
You may be sceptical of this, but I chose this article as it relays info from both parties.
There is also an eye-witness account of events in this very thread. Unless, of course, they're lying too.

As I have already said

Snickers Man wrote: »

I remain deeply skeptical, but like all true skeptics, will acknowledge the story as true if confirmed by reputable agencies. eg the police, a newspaper report that shows some evidence of independent confirmation etc.

The "evidence" that I have seen to date remains unconvincing.

OldNotWIse

big_heart_on wrote: »

This really highlights the dangers of drag hunting and allowing packs of hunting dogs to roam across the countryside unleashed & unmuzzled.

The gate question is only a means of deflecting responsibility from the hunt to the family, as if people should be expecting a pack of hounds to come tearing into their garden in search of something to tear to pieces.

The hounds may well have to be put down now, how could they be used off the leash and unmuzzled again when they have history? They are unsuited for any other purpose or adoption.

Why is the Bray hunt active in Ashford anyway? Is it because of the incidents I've heard of around Bray involving other dogs being killed by out of control hounds?

I agree with you completely but who will make sure this happens? If a pet dog did it, it would be seized and pts immediately. Why is this any different?

big_heart_on

I agree, I dont think it is any different tbh it should be the same rules for anyone with a dog. No special cases for hunts.

fits

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I agree with you completely but who will make sure this happens? If a pet dog did it, it would be seized and pts immediately. Why is this any different?

I wouldn't think it is.

dodderangler

Thread title is a bit much tbh

OldNotWIse

dodderangler wrote: »

Thread title is a bit much tbh

How so?

dodderangler

Because by saying the dog was killed by a pack of hunting dogs is basically saying all hunting dogs are vicious and aggressive.
The dog was killed by hounds, a dog that is in the the hunting breed category.
Hounds are used to smell , track and kill fox so are known for killing.
But by saying a pack of hunting dogs she is putting all breeds of dogs used for hunting in that pack.
Pointers, springers , labs etc
Real hunting companions and treated properly by hunters.
These lads responsible are not hunting and is not a sport

DBB

Thread closed til I can deal with issues arising from it

DBB

Thread re-opened following substantial edits and deletions of off-topic, argumentative, bickering posts.
OldNotWise, as you were at the helm of the flaming, do not post in this thread again.
To everyone else, keep it civil and on topic, or there will be automatic bans.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

freedominacup

Stinicker wrote: »

Bad day for dogs in Ireland so it seems

http://www.thejournal.ie/puppy-found-shot-in-athlone-1201660-Dec2013/

Not getting the hate against the Hunt, mistakes happen and so is life. People love to hate on Hunts due to their perceived upper class nature and it boils down to class snobbery. Foxes are vermin and should be eradicated which is what alot of hunts do but the Hunt in question here seems to have only been following a sniffer trail.

The poor little doggy met a sad and cruel end and that is no doubt but should have been kept in a secure place while a hunt was nearby. Dogs have no concept of private property and the hounds that killed the small dog did nothing wrong from their point of view.

It seems an unfortunate accident that should not have happened but it and nothing will ever change that now. There are some Animal rights lunatics who would make more noise about this than if it was child who was hurt or killed.

Right so where do I start.

I have a major dislike of hunts as most in my area are peopled by nouveau riche wannabe landlords who believe they have a god given right to tresspass simply because they are on horseback. There is one hunt in my area that we allow to hunt our land because it is made up of locals who have respect for their neighbours property and inform everyone well in advance when they are coming. I have fired on hounds from other hunts who were charging through a field where heavily pregnant cows were grazing. That little sojurn by the hunt in question cost me thousands in losses and vet fees.

This hunt got a neighbour that hunts with them to approach us about letting them hunt again a couple of years ago and we agreed with certain restrictions one of which was a stipulation that they not approach within 100m of the farmyard. First day back and I was feeding up in the main cattle shed when every animal in the place went ballistic, I ran to see what was causing the commotion and here were the likely lads sashaying through the yard as if it was open countryside. They were stopped turned around and given their marching orders. The rub was they tried to insist on carrying on through our property on the basis that they were gone so far they might as well keep going. They haven't been back since and won't be but it demonstrates that the dogs aren't the only ones involved in hunting with no concept of private property.

Your contention that anyone should do anything with their livestock or pets because a hunt is in their area just encapsulates the arrogance of many hunt members which sickens many people who might otherwise be ambivalent enough about hunts and their activities. Certainly ambivalent enough not to actively oppose them. Personally I'm not anti-hunting, in fact we have a very good relationship with our local gun club whose members give a good bit in return for having lands preserved for their club. The contrast between the gun clubs and the hunts in this area couldn't be starker in fact.

Finally foxes are far from vermin, they are a from a farmers point of view a vital component of the ecosystem. If their numbers are artificially driven down the consequences for farmers are entirely negative.

Macy0161

Stinicker wrote: »

The poor little doggy met a sad and cruel end and that is no doubt but should have been kept in a secure place while a hunt was nearby.

How are people supposed to know when to keep their animals on their property in a secure place if the hunts don't advise where they'll be? This is one of the issues the family is raising - first they knew of the hunt was the pack in their garden chasing and killing their pet.

Up until now I had assumed the hounds were trained and under control. As that isn't the case, hunts should be forced to advertise when and where they are hunting so residents can take precautions, and hunts should have liability for loss and distress caused if they lose control.

wexie

Macy0161 wrote: »

How are people supposed to know when to keep their animals on their property in a secure place if the hunts don't advise where they'll be? This is one of the issues the family is raising - first they knew of the hunt was the pack in their garden chasing and killing their pet.

Up until now I had assumed the hounds were trained and under control. As that isn't the case, hunts should be forced to advertise when and where they are hunting so residents can take precautions, and hunts should have liability for loss and distress caused if they lose control.

that's a good point, however, this dog was in what should have been a safe and secure place. It was in it's own backyard on private property where the hunt had no business being in the first place.

Like freedominacup already pointed out, the suggestion that people should lock up their animals to keep them safe reeks of entitlement and arrogance.

<snip>

dodderangler

wexie wrote: »

<snip>

So you'll do what exactly to the hounds?
It's the <snip> on horses I'd be running towards. A animal has its instincts and a small dog that was attacked and killed by larger dog is something that not all dogs can help.
Especially when dogs are in a pack their wolf instinct are stronger than normal and so a smaller animal is fair game. It's a horrible thing but to say the hounds should get the punishment is a bit much.
It's the <snip> on horses showing fcuk all respect to the land they're on and not givin a sh1t
Same people that wouldn't look for a lost hound either. They're idiots and don't deserve the dogs or horses for a fact and certainly don't deserve to call it hunting either.

wexie

dodderangler wrote: »

So you'll do what exactly to the hounds?
It's the SNIP on horses I'd be running towards. A animal has its instincts and a small dog that was attacked and killed by larger dog is something that not all dogs can help.
Especially when dogs are in a pack their wolf instinct are stronger than normal and so a smaller animal is fair game. It's a horrible thing but to say the hounds should get the punishment is a bit much.
It's the SNIP on horses showing SNIP respect to the land they're on and not givin SNIP
Same people that wouldn't look for a lost hound either. They're idiots and don't deserve the dogs or horses for a fact and certainly don't deserve to call it hunting either.

I'd much prefer to do nothing to the hounds as I quite like dogs, but if I were to see any of them attacking my dogs on my property I'd take the nearest tool to hand to them to make them stop.

You're absolutely right the hunters should be held responsible but my first concern would be my own dog.

Macy0161

wexie wrote: »

that's a good point, however, this dog was in what should have been a safe and secure place. It was in it's own backyard on private property where the hunt had no business being in the first place.

Like freedominacup already pointed out, the suggestion that people should lock up their animals to keep them safe reeks of entitlement and arrogance.

If that happened on my property I can tell you it would not end well for the hounds.

I agree with all that, however, it has been implied the gate should've been shut (presumably a garden gate ffs), and said that the dog shouldn't have been out. First we know a hunt is on is when they're passing through a few fields up from the house - the defence seems to be the rest of us should be mind readers or something.

fits

Macy0161 wrote: »

I agree with all that, however, it has been implied the gate should've been shut (presumably a garden gate ffs), and said that the dog shouldn't have been out..

Ah come on now. Nobody said that. Nobody is defending this.

DBB

Okay all, you've been keeping me far too busy today.
Some posters have, and continue to make their points really well: it's an emotive topic yet they can make their points without
(a) inciting violence, hatred or death towards either man or animal, and
(b) referring to those they disagree with as dickheads, or other hateful names.

It stops now. I have already asked nicely. I will not be asking again. Warnings and cards have already been issued.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Aptitude

dodderangler wrote: »

But by saying a pack of hunting dogs she is putting all breeds of dogs used for hunting in that pack

She?

dodderangler wrote: »

Thread title is a bit much tbh

I changed the thread title.(Well the first post is updated not sure about title).

DBB

fits wrote: »

Ah come on now. Nobody said that. Nobody is defending this.

In fairness, they did! In this thread at least. I'm assuming that this is the post that macy0161 was referring to:

Stinicker wrote: »

The poor little doggy met a sad and cruel end and that is no doubt but should have been kept in a secure place while a hunt was nearby. Dogs have no concept of private property and the hounds that killed the small dog did nothing wrong from their point of view.