First public sector compulsory redundancies ever?

miju

gozunda wrote: »

Ireland’s failure to hold people to account for manifest wrongdoing in public office and business sends the message to Irish citizens as well as international investors, that in Ireland, as long as you are well-connected or powerful enough, you can lie, cheat, bribe and neglect your official duties with impunity."

So can we safely assume that this case thats up in "front of the courts" has been done and dusted seeing as how the courts actually closed for christmas yesterday?

Scofflaw

gozunda wrote: »

You think PS employees are conceived without sin? Really...the specific case I referenced to are before the court at present only because an individual has spent their personal resources in prosecuting the individuals involved. There are no internal controls on these individuals, they behave as if they have absolute discretion. Time this was uncovered and dealt with properly and where to have found to have acted illegally - be sacked minus pension and other CS benefits.

A case before the courts, assuming there to be such a case, cannot possibly demonstrate that anyone was guilty of anything, because the case is still before the courts.

You've been challenged on this, and the case cannot possibly prove your original contention, that "a senior PS worker was found to have acted illegally", because clearly no finding has been made.

Please don't continue to make the claim now it has been clearly shown that you have no evidence for it. And if you're going to change claims, the least that can be expected of you is an admission that your original claim was baseless.

moderately,
Scofflaw

gozunda

Scofflaw wrote: »

A case before the courts, assuming there to be such a case, cannot possibly demonstrate that anyone was guilty of anything, because the case is still before the courts.

You've been challenged on this, and the case cannot possibly prove your original contention, that "a senior PS worker was found to have acted illegally", because clearly no finding has been made.

Please don't continue to make the claim now it has been clearly shown that you have no evidence for it. And if you're going to change claims, the least that can be expected of you is an admission that your original claim was baseless.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Thanks

I have pm'd you.

Jawgap

gozunda wrote: »

You clearly did not read the whole article if a sense of false nationalistic bias makes us 'think' that lovely little Ireland is somehow the proverbial isle of saints and scholars compared to another country.

I will Quote the Transparency International article listed above again for your benefit...


"Unlike Hong Kong, Ireland does not have a single agency dedicated to fighting corruption. The closest comparison that can be drawn to ICAC is the Standards in Public Office Commission. It has nine staff and cannot fully investigate wrongdoing without a prior complaint. Other agencies that tackle white-collar crime also lack the resources they need to do their job. The Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement has been perennially understaffed since it was established in 2001. The Gardaí also have scant resources to fight corruption, and show little appetite for investigating corruption-related offences. In total, Ireland has five times fewer employees allocated to investigate every form of white collar crime than Hong Kong has to investigate wrongdoing by public officials.

When there are so few people trained and paid to uncover corruption, it’s no wonder there are so few prosecutions.

Despite the Government’s promises to clean up Ireland's act, the last two years have shown that there is little political will to hold people to account. This seems clear from the failure to obtain criminal convictions arising from the systemic corruption exposed by the Mahon Tribunal or the wrongdoing highlighted in the final Moriarty Tribunal report. Likewise, controversy surrounding the ‘Anglo tapes’ has come and gone and the authorities have failed to even interview those involved.

Ireland’s failure to hold people to account for manifest wrongdoing in public office and business sends the message to Irish citizens as well as international investors, that in Ireland, as long as you are well-connected or powerful enough, you can lie, cheat, bribe and neglect your official duties with impunity."

All of which may be true and there is, no doubt, a case for bumping up the resources of SIPOC and the ODCE, but in the case of actual or alleged corruption among office holders we have something more powerful than Hong Kong does - open, free and fair elections, combined with a moderately active media.

Obviously certain elements of the electorate are content to have certain characters represent them - that's democracy.

Btw - in an era when people are baying for compulsory redundancies, reduced PS pay etc, how would you expand the existing agencies charged with tackling corruption or make a business case for setting up something new.

My own experience in working in a regulatory environment is that, unfortunately, people like to own stuff, which means they like to earn a decent salary relative to their peers, which means paying them the market rate for the job. As long as the PS is paying below market rate for 'talent' it will be left relying on mediocrity and the odd public-minded better-than-average person.

It may be different in the health and policing areas where it's more vocational.