Sour or Soured

Jellybaby1

When a recipe calls for 'sour cream', can I just use my leftover slightly out of date cream, or do I need to get 'soured' cream in the supermarket? Or are they both the same thing?

Faith

They're different things. Like the difference between rotten milk and buttermilk.

Jellybaby1

I sort of thought so. I assume therefore that the recipe requires 'soured' cream then?

seosamh1980

Dear God it doesn't mean out of date cream! Sour/soured cream/creme fraiche are a different product, as Faith said that'd be like using stale old milk.

If the recipe says sour cream then it means sour cream...?

Jellybaby1

seosamh1980 wrote: »

Dear God it doesn't mean out of date cream! Sour/soured cream/creme fraiche are a different product, as Faith said that'd be like using stale old milk.

If the recipe says sour cream then it means sour cream...?

Sorry. Was I very shocking? Slightly out of date cream (only one day in this particular instance) means sour cream to me. Sure maybe I'll double check with Nigella as to what she really meant, sour cream, soured cream, or creme fraiche for her gingerbread recipe.:) Does nobody use up sour milk by making scones any more? It hasn't poisoned me yet.

Faith

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Sorry. Was I very shocking? Slightly out of date cream (only one day in this particular instance) means sour cream to me. Sure maybe I'll double check with Nigella as to what she really meant, sour cream, soured cream, or creme fraiche for her gingerbread recipe.:) Does nobody use up sour milk by making scones any more? It hasn't poisoned me yet.

Well, using rotten ingredients is a bit shocking . It's a valid question if you're not sure of the difference, but sour cream is specially made with a specific fermentation process. It's not just normal cream that has turned.

And nope, I can safely say I've never used sour milk in making scones! It might be a practical thing that's fallen out of favour over the years, but I'd be afraid I would taste the sourness.

seosamh1980

Using slightly old cream or milk in scones is different to using a stale product when the recipe calls for a completely different product. Sour cream is not the same as the fresh cream we buy when it's a few days out of date, again as Faith said just before me. It was a bit surprising to me just because I didn't realise people thought that sour cream in a recipe was gone off cream. When sour cream is served with Mexican food etc it's not old stale pouring cream, it's the more solid/less liquid product called Sour Cream.

Jellybaby1

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, the practical habits of using up what you have in the fridge/cupboard seems to have fallen out of favour as you say. I grew up with 'waste not, want not'. However, I promise you we never, ever, used 'rotten' ingredients.

janmaree

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, the practical habits of using up what you have in the fridge/cupboard seems to have fallen out of favour as you say. I grew up with 'waste not, want not'. However, I promise you we never, ever, used 'rotten' ingredients.

I grew up the same way, Jellybaby1, food was hard enough to afford without throwing it away just because the cream or milk were "on the turn", for example. I still use slightly sour milk and cream in brown bread and scones, it's perfectly fine when it's just that bit too off to use in tea or coffee. There's a big difference between "on the turn" and "rotten". I honestly think that best before dates have a lot to answer for; so many in the world are starving and yet we obediently dump all kinds of perfectly edible food because it's passed the date. When Jellybaby1 and I were growing up, the decision to discard or use up was based upon the "sniff" test and we're both still here!

On the other hand, my cats are thrilled skinny when the "goody bags" arrive from extended family who wouldn't DREAM of consuming a yogurt the day after the best before date! I spend special time bonding with my pusscats as they lick yogurt from my fingers, eyes closed and loving it! That's the only time they get yogurt though, I always eat my own out of date tubs!;)

seosamh1980

janmaree wrote: »

I grew up the same way, Jellybaby1, food was hard enough to afford without throwing it away just because the cream or milk were "on the turn", for example. I still use slightly sour milk and cream in brown bread and scones, it's perfectly fine when it's just that bit too off to use in tea or coffee. There's a big difference between "on the turn" and "rotten". I honestly think that best before dates have a lot to answer for; so many in the world are starving and yet we obediently dump all kinds of perfectly edible food because it's passed the date. When Jellybaby1 and I were growing up, the decision to discard or use up was based upon the "sniff" test and we're both still here!

On the other hand, my cats are thrilled skinny when the "goody bags" arrive from extended family who wouldn't DREAM of consuming a yogurt the day after the best before date! I spend special time bonding with my pusscats as they lick yogurt from my fingers, eyes closed and loving it! That's the only time they get yogurt though, I always eat my own out of date tubs!;)

When you were growing up? You're assuming a lot there. I'm 28 and was brought up the same way, I smell or taste things to decide how fresh they are, I don't go by what supermarkets decide is the date they want it off the shelf, most of my shopping is done in the clearance area. What I was explaining to the OP was that this isn't about using up things that are slightly past their best, this about using the wrong product when another is called for in a recipe. If a recipe asks for sour cream it needs sour cream, not fresh liquid cream. If something requires buttermilk milk won't do the same job.

janmaree

seosamh1980, you sound a little upset there and if you don't mind me saying so, you're coming across again as a bit aggressive and reading things into posts that aren't intended. I read the entire thread before I posted, I too know the difference between sour and soured cream; perhaps a little more intelligent labelling by the manufacturers might help to avoid these little squabbles. I tried to address my 2 cents worth to Jellybaby1 as a little moral support over "waste not want not", not to perpetuate the cream question already answered. We're probably all a bit angry in this country nowadays but when someone comes along and asks a perfectly reasonable question, I feel honour bound to stand up for them when instead of a perfectly reasonable answer they get a bit of a kicking. I'm sure that Jellybaby1 doesn't need me to protect her but that's just what I'm like.

So................ just to clarify, I do all the same things you do when I'm shopping and cooking, it's just the answers people get that I object to sometimes.

Jellybaby1

Well I don't want to put Nigella though any more than she is already going through right now but she has to accept some blame for listing 'sour cream' instead of 'soured' cream and confusing an old dear like myself. When I popped into the supermarket I discovered what I used to buy as 'soured' cream is now labelled 'sour' cream! Oh well, 'soured' cream bought, and the gingerbread has been baked. I thought I had ground cloves but only discovered whole ones in the cupboard so I ground some of them myself with a pestle & mortar, the scent was so much stronger than the ordinary ground cloves. The house smells of wonderful spices and I can't wait for himself to taste it as he is particularly fond of gingerbread. Another boo-boo on Nigella's part is that she forgot to tell us what size tin to use (she just said 'square'). I had to read through several different websites which had the recipe listed before I found some lovely posters who discussed the actual size of the tin so I took their advice and it worked fine. Naughty Nigella!

Thank you janmaree for your input. I'm sure your puddycats just love the slightly off yogurt! There is a brand new forum on Boards about Frugal Living, it's just the place for thee and me!

Jellybaby1

seosamh1980 wrote: »

........ What I was explaining to the OP was that this isn't about using up things that are slightly past their best,

Surprisingly enough, I actually knew that.

Mince Pie

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

There is a brand new forum on Boards about Frugal Living, it's just the place for thee and me!

Care to share this new part of Boards? I would be most interested.

janmaree

Jellybaby1, I'm so sorry if I made you sound like an old dear - you're probably in your 20's like seosamh! I really AM one myself and it shows!!! :eek: Glad to hear that your recipe turned out well in the end, I laughed at your description of grinding the cloves and fair play to you for the physical effort - I always reach for the allspice myself! :rolleyes:

I had a quick search for the frugal living you mentioned and found Biz - Consumer - Bargain Alerts - Coupons & Living Frugally, I guess that's it. Thanks a lot!

Jellybaby1

Mince Pie wrote: »

Care to share this new part of Boards? I would be most interested.

Happy to share, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057093109

Biz / Consumer / Bargain Alerts / Coupons & Living Frugally

Faith

Sorry, I've probably created more of a fuss by using the term "rotten" . I think it's the literal term for food that has turned, but is generally understood to mean visibly disgusting food. "Spoiled" might have been a better word for this discussion.

Jellybaby1

janmaree wrote: »

Jellybaby1, I'm so sorry if I made you sound like an old dear - you're probably in your 20's like seosamh! I really AM one myself and it shows!!!

In my 20's?!! I wish!! A mere couple of years off getting the O.A.pension at this stage. I can see that you and I understand each other! Did you know that there is also a lovely place on Boards for people of a certain 'vintage'? Its very pleasant, maybe we'll bump into each other over there some time. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1480

Regarding the gingerbread - its sitting in a tin waiting for its first bite which will happen tonight by himself. I won't partake due to my own gluten intolerance :mad:. Next week I'll be letting Delia take control of my baking.

janmaree

Regarding the gingerbread - its sitting in a tin waiting for its first bite which will happen tonight by himself. I won't partake due to my own gluten intolerance :mad:. Next week I'll be letting Delia take control of my baking. [/QUOTE]

Hi Jellybaby1, when you mentioned gluten intolerance, and I don't know how careful you have to be with it, I wondered if you'd tried the Gluten Free bread in Aldi? I've been trying different ones for a while and this is the first one that actually tastes pretty much like bread! I buy the one with all the grains and at €1.99 (I think) it's much more reasonable than a lot of the others. Just thought I'd mention it.

Take care, J.

rubadub

Just found this comment, not sure if its true but sounds reasonable, and a reason why people might have heard its ok in the past.

Modern pasteurization kills the good bacteria that traditionally allowed normal milk to ferment into sour milk (called buttermilk because this was the run-off from the butter churning process.) If you drink spoiled milk, you run the risk of food poisoning from unhealthy bacteria which may have found it. Fortunately, it is fairly easy to tell if milk has begun to spoil due to distinct changes in smell, texture, and flavor.

I remember my sister having an unopened carton of milk she was going to use in baking. I was thinking at least it was not contaminated with airbourne bacteria after being opened for ages.

Jellybaby1

Hi Jellybaby1, when you mentioned gluten intolerance, and I don't know how careful you have to be with it, I wondered if you'd tried the Gluten Free bread in Aldi? I've been trying different ones for a while and this is the first one that actually tastes pretty much like bread! I buy the one with all the grains and at €1.99 (I think) it's much more reasonable than a lot of the others. Just thought I'd mention it.

Take care, J.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the Aldi info. I am extremely sensitive to Gluten. I have tried a lot of GF breads but usually prefer my own. However, these days I am also enjoying some Pure Bred bread rolls which are so soft its almost like what I remember real bread used to taste like.....so long ago now I'd almost forgotten.

rubadub wrote: »

Just found this comment, not sure if its true but sounds reasonable, and a reason why people might have heard its ok in the past.

I remember my sister having an unopened carton of milk she was going to use in baking. I was thinking at least it was not contaminated with airbourne bacteria after being opened for ages.

Thanks for that. It seems modern milk just isn't what it used to be....like so many things today.

pwurple

rubadub wrote: »

Just found this comment, not sure if its true but sounds reasonable, and a reason why people might have heard its ok in the past.



I remember my sister having an unopened carton of milk she was going to use in baking. I was thinking at least it was not contaminated with airbourne bacteria after being opened for ages.

That IS reasonable. Decent info there. Very good to know.

We are lucky enough to be buddies with a dairy farmer who lets us have unpasturised when we ask for it. That's what i make our yoghurts out of, by stirring in a live yoghurt and letting it work away.

I use the sour unpasturised in baking too... It smells sour, not gone off, so i thought it was fine, but this thread was freaking me out.

Our sour dough starter is one that aquired its yeast from the air as well back in the beginning. I let it sit next to a fruit bowl until it started to grow. Probably grosses people out, but it's benn happily rising bread for us for years. Loads of good airborne stuff flying around.