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What form should a 'breach of obgligation' notice to a tenant take?

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    #2
    discodavie
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭discodavie


    There are 2 links on that page ,

    Both are working.

    Stage 1 can be verbal but it's advised that you have proof , as in a txt. There is no sample as it isn't required to contain any info other than your rent is late etc etc


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    #3
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    I saw the other two links alright, at the bottom of step 1 it says, " a sample written version of this notice is available below" but with no sample,
    step 2 and 3 have their own (the two links) samples, thought there should have been one in for step one too.

    I'll do one up based on step 2 but remove the other information related to it (ie 14 days, already sent text and tried to ring but no answer).


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    #4
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    Is there a fixed term lease in existence or is it a Part 4 tenancy? It makes a difference as to what notices are required to satisfy the law.


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    #5
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    odds_on wrote: »
    Is there a fixed term lease in existence or is it a Part 4 tenancy? It makes a difference as to what notices are required to satisfy the law.

    Does it? The OP is serving notice for non-payment of rent; its the same procedure either way is it not?


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    #6
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    djimi wrote: »
    Does it? The OP is serving notice for non-payment of rent; its the same procedure either way is it not?
    If there is a fixed term agreement in existence, then a 14 day notice of rent arrears may be followed by the 28 day Notice of Termination.

    However, if there is a Part 4 tenancy, 3 notices must be served: firstly, a simple notice stating that the rent is in arrears. There does not seem to be any time frame for this notice, so it may be followed, speedily, by the 14 day notice and then the 28 day NoT.


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    #7
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Its fixed, although the tenancy has continued as I understood with the rights of part 4, so over 4 years and restarted.
    I tolerated previous delays because I felt there was better communication from the tenant, now I am getting no response.

    Im just preparing for putting things in place as to inform them of the non payment as it causes penalties to be applied to me.

    I'm lining up to give the first notice, and as the rent is already due, and there is no time frame for giving the second notice and a reasonable time for paying the rent and remedying this has not occurred to follow that up soon after with the second notice.


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    #8
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    cerastes wrote: »
    Its fixed, although the tenancy has continued as I understood with the rights of part 4, so over 4 years and restarted.
    I tolerated previous delays because I felt there was better communication from the tenant, now I am getting no response.

    Im just preparing for putting things in place as to inform them of the non payment as it causes penalties to be applied to me.

    I'm lining up to give the first notice, and as the rent is already due, and there is no time frame for giving the second notice and a reasonable time for paying the rent and remedying this has not occurred to follow that up soon after with the second notice.
    I'm sorry, I don't understand what type of tenancy you have. Has the tenant signed a fixed term agreement and that agreement is still current or has the agreement lapsed into a Part 4 tenancy, the last fixed term that was signed having now expired?


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    #9
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Its fixed term, but I thought that the 4 year term was still applicable,

    either way, i have no wish to end the lease.

    It seems Im being pushed to it


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    #10
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    cerastes wrote: »
    Its fixed term, but I thought that the 4 year term was still applicable,

    either way, i have no wish to end the lease.
    If you have a fixed term in existence, then that takes precedence over Part 4 rights because it gives the tenant more security of tenure, which is the basis of a fixed term agrement. The landlord may only serve a Notice of termination if the tenant is in breach of his obligations (which include arrears of rent. Once the fixed term expires and, if the tenant does not sign a new fixed term, which he is not obliged to do, the tenancy rolls onto a Part 4 tenancy without any other formalities.

    Thus, for arrears of rent, if it is a Part 4 tenancy, the landlord must serve the 14 day notice followed by the 28 day NoT. However, under Part 4 laws, the landlord is required to also serve an initial notice of rent arrears prior to the 14 day notice; where as, if it were a fixed term agreement, only the 14 day and 28 day are required.


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    #11
    discodavie
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭discodavie


    The op is giving the first notice by trying to ring them and by txting them about the arrears.

    He can follow this up quickly (say 48 hrs)with a 14 day notice


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    #12
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    odds_on wrote: »
    If you have a fixed term in existence, then that takes precedence over Part 4 rights because it gives the tenant more security of tenure, which is the basis of a fixed term agrement. The landlord may only serve a Notice of termination if the tenant is in breach of his obligations (which include arrears of rent. Once the fixed term expires and, if the tenant does not sign a new fixed term, which he is not obliged to do, the tenancy rolls onto a Part 4 tenancy without any other formalities.

    Thus, for arrears of rent, if it is a Part 4 tenancy, the landlord must serve the 14 day notice followed by the 28 day NoT. However, under Part 4 laws, the landlord is required to also serve an initial notice of rent arrears prior to the 14 day notice; where as, if it were a fixed term agreement, only the 14 day and 28 day are required.

    so, under a fixed term the tenant does not aquire part 4 rights? such as the right to tenure for the 4 year duration?


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    #13
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Part term rights run concurrently with the fixed term lease after 6 months. The rights afforded to the tenant in the part 4 tenancy form the minimum legal rights that a tenant has, and they apply at all times no matter what the type of lease.


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    #14
    sunnysoutheast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭sunnysoutheast


    discodavie wrote: »
    The op is giving the first notice by trying to ring them and by txting them about the arrears.

    He can follow this up quickly (say 48 hrs)with a 14 day notice

    Agree with you entirely, but I'd be doing every communication to the tenant in writing!


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    #15
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    djimi wrote: »
    Part term rights run concurrently with the fixed term lease after 6 months. The rights afforded to the tenant in the part 4 tenancy form the minimum legal rights that a tenant has, and they apply at all times no matter what the type of lease.

    This is what I thought, so the right to tenure for 4 years still applies excluding not meeting obligations


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    #16
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    cerastes wrote: »
    so, under a fixed term the tenant does not aquire part 4 rights? such as the right to tenure for the 4 year duration?
    The tenant's rights are also affected by the type of lease he has.

    If a tenant signs four consecutive one year fixed term leases, then his Part 4 rights do not really count as, as djimi says, Part 4 rights are a minimum that a tenant has, especially in regards to his security of tenure. While the tenant has a fixed term lease, a landlord cannot, except where the tenant is in breach of his obligations, evict a tenant therefore, his minimum rights are of little use to him.

    However, the way that the RTA 2004 was written, there was little consideration given to fixed term leases as Part 4 rights are a minimum. However, if a tenant is in arrears of rent, under Part 4 laws, a landlord must serve 2 notices before a Notice of termination is valid. But if the tenant has a fixed term agreement, the landlord only needs to serve, for arrears of rent, 1 notice (the 14 day notice of arrears, before he can serve a valid NoT.


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    #17
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    cerastes wrote: »
    This is what I thought, so the right to tenure for 4 years still applies excluding not meeting obligations

    Yes. If a tenant has a fixed term lease that expires at the end of year 1, they can remain in the property for another 3 years without having to sign a further lease.


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    #18
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    djimi wrote: »
    Yes. If a tenant has a fixed term lease that expires at the end of year 1, they can remain in the property for another 3 years without having to sign a further lease.

    ok, but can a one year fixed term be looked at on its own, and the tenancy ended after that one year

    in this case 4+ the current 1, could it be ended at the end of that year without going into a further 3 because its fixed term?


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    #19
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    No, only the tenant can end the tenancy at the end of a fixed term lease. The four years starts with the start of the lease and runs concurrently.


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    #20
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    cerastes wrote: »
    ok, but can a one year fixed term be looked at on its own, and the tenancy ended after that one year

    in this case 4+ the current 1, could it be ended at the end of that year without going into a further 3 because its fixed term?
    Part of a tenant's rights is that once he has been in occupation for 6 months, he is entitled to remain in the property for a total of 4 years without signing a new lease (i.e. he is on a Part 4 tenancy). In this case, the landlord has the option of evicting a tenant under any of the six grounds available to him, two of which are, if the landlord wants the property for his own use (or that of a close relative); or if he intends to sell the property.

    However, if the tenant wants more security of tenure he will sign a new Fixed term agreement (usually on a yearly basis). Now, the landlord may only evict the tenant if the latter is in breach of his obligations and for no other reason (even if the landlord wants the property for his own use).


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    #21
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    djimi wrote: »
    No, only the tenant can end the tenancy at the end of a fixed term lease. The four years starts with the start of the lease and runs concurrently.
    odds_on wrote: »
    Part of a tenant's rights is that once he has been in occupation for 6 months, he is entitled to remain in the property for a total of 4 years without signing a new lease (i.e. he is on a Part 4 tenancy). In this case, the landlord has the option of evicting a tenant under any of the six grounds available to him, two of which are, if the landlord wants the property for his own use (or that of a close relative); or if he intends to sell the property.

    However, if the tenant wants more security of tenure he will sign a new Fixed term agreement (usually on a yearly basis). Now, the landlord may only evict the tenant if the latter is in breach of his obligations and for no other reason (even if the landlord wants the property for his own use).


    Ok, this (the part 4 stuff) is what Id thought but began to question myself if that was the case, thought it was being said here that it wasn't. Id always assumed the 4 year tenancy right was a given in either fixed or part 4 leases.
    I'll wait to see what the result is before the end of the week.


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    #22
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Got an almost complete result, however, I need to contact the tenant, the usual method has been by text, however, over the last year with so many delayed payments, they are usually unavailable.

    I intend and really have no option but to make the approach formal and written, as I feel like Im wasting my time trying to contact them by text as they are mostly declining to answer or reply. Now I understand they may be unable to take a call at a certain time, hence me texting them, but they hardly ever follow up.
    I feel they have made the effort with the rent, but Im not sure how long they can manage that. There is only a very small amount outstanding, however after checking, there were both a number of late payments which I told them back when they started to get late with rent payments, they would have to pay as I am being charged for their delay.

    I feel I might be sending a lot of registered mails, as I dont want to waste my time calling around. Based on them not answering texts, as it was agreed between us that was the preferred method of contact, and them now mostly not responding, I consider it reasonable to pass the registered postage cost on to them, I cant even pass the full charge as I cant charge for the waste of my time, fuel and all the hassle I have arranging to get to the post office.

    Pass on registered postage cost, reasonable based on it being down to them declining to answer contacts.


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    #23
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Any opinions on the last post?
    Also
    Cant see in the RTA 2004 how much notice is required, it just says a reasonable amount of time.
    A repair was carried out, I want to check it is ok, the tenant is failing to answer, they owe a small amount of rent.

    Im planning issuing them a 14 day notice for the outstanding rent, with the view to issuing the 14 day notice again just after the next date rent is due if it is late, with the view to issuing a 28 day notice of termination if they dont make good all rent in 14 days.

    edit, I want to make sure the repair isnt leaking and causing damage, Ive asked them to keep an eye on it and let me know its ok too but they have not contacted me and have refused to answer if its ok, so I want to inspect it, also the rest of the house was in a state when I was last there.


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    #24
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    With regards passing on the cost of the registered post, my advice would be to pick your battles. They owe you outstanding rent; worry about that first before chasing them for petty amounts for registered posts or whatever.

    Its also the kind of thing thats likely to get their back up (it would if it was me), and like it or not the last thing you want is uncooperative tenants who decide to stop paying rent and dont fancy moving.


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    #25
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    djimi wrote: »
    With regards passing on the cost of the registered post, my advice would be to pick your battles. They owe you outstanding rent; worry about that first before chasing them for petty amounts for registered posts or whatever.

    Its also the kind of thing thats likely to get their back up (it would if it was me), and like it or not the last thing you want is uncooperative tenants who decide to stop paying rent and dont fancy moving.

    Any idea of the notice for inspection,
    The RTA 2004 says 2 (16) c)
    allow, at reasonable intervals, the landlord, or any person
    or persons acting on the landlord’s behalf, access to the
    dwelling (on a date and time agreed in advance with the
    tenant) for the purposes of inspecting the dwelling,


    So the tenant is already in breach of that, Other places I have found interpretations that say its not a right but previous PRTB decisions Ive read up, dont seem to give any standing or favour to tenants that have declined access.

    Im not going to push it, but I'm keeping my own record, just going to add it to the inventory of disagreeable actions on their part. Ive never previously insisted on it, but the last time I was present after the tenant contacted me about a problem, the place was in a mess, food all over the worktop, bin overflowing, most of the place in a complete mess.


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