Former Labour Party chairman Colm Keaveney to join Fianna Fáil

Spanish Johnny

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

But there isn't a guaranteed seat. That is the point!

There will be one FF seat in Galway East. But it is a long way from guaranteed that Keaveney will get that seat.....

No but it gives him the absolute best chance of retaining a seat which is exactly what the majority have pointed out here. Guaranteed FF seat so now all he has to so is make himself the main FF man. A far far easier task now than in position in Labour or as an Independent.

One of the most hypocritical, conniving, opportunistic, blatant and careerist acts I have ever seen.

Busted Flat.

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

No but it gives him the absolute best chance of retaining a seat which is exactly what the majority have pointed out here. Guaranteed FF seat so now all he has to so is make himself the main FF man. A far far easier task now than in position in Labour or as an Independent.

One of the most hypocritical, conniving, opportunistic, blatant and careerist acts I have ever seen.

That's politics, there's George Lee who thought he could make a change, there is nice Peter who thought he could make a change, how many have left the government ranks over the government's incompetence. That is Irish Politics. It is not bad at the moment however, how many councillors will jump ship before the next council election. Begin counting now, now that the lead has been given.

For Forks Sake

Dave! wrote: »

According to Twitter, Keaveney is on Vincent Browne tonight! :eek:

yay

This should be fun. Cooper gave him a good kicking, his mood was noticeably worse when Hook decided to come out swinging at him, lordy only knows what VinB's gonna hit him with.

grainnewhale

renegademaster wrote: »

there really needs to be riots across the country when fianna fail get back into power, "democratically" elected or not!!

Riots about what? If they are elected. what would rioting achieve?

Busted Flat.

renegademaster wrote: »

there really needs to be riots across the country when fianna fail get back into power, "democratically" elected or not!!

Are you suggesting to do away with democracy, and let the mob rule. We had that back at the formation of the state where Eoin O Duffy organised a lot of people like the KKK, they were called the Blueshirts in this country.

If I am wrong in my opinion I will stand to be corrected.

Going Forward

Seems like a nice young man, but might be distracted by any mirrors in his vicinity.

Charlie was a bit like that too.

raymon

He wasn't on Vincent Browne tonight. The only FFer was that dreadful Thomas Byrne chap.

Banjoxed

grainnewhale wrote: »

Riots about what? If they are elected. what would rioting achieve?

A few euro in court coffers when their mammy rolls up in the 4x4 and bails them out..

Loafing Oaf

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

No but it gives him the absolute best chance of retaining a seat which is exactly what the majority have pointed out here. Guaranteed FF seat so now all he has to so is make himself the main FF man. A far far easier task now than in position in Labour or as an Independent.

Harry McGee suggests Kitt, if he stands again, may move to the new Roscommon–Galway constituency because a lot of his bailiwick is there. So this is starting to look like a political masterstroke on CK's part...

Annasopra

Going Forward wrote: »

Seems like a nice young man, but might be distracted by any mirrors in his vicinity.

Charlie was a bit like that too.

Ah here don't give Colm more of an ego comparing him to Charlie.

grainnewhale

Busted Flat. wrote: »

What backbone did the OF/SF/IRA, OF/SF/WP,OF/SF/DL, OF/SF/LP, have.
Double standards thrive in this little kip.

What backbone did F.G have when there cowardly founder, agreed to leave a quarter of the country to suffer in a sectarian hell hole. To be fair to F.G they have maintained their gutless approach to the six counties ever since.

raymon

Seemingly the arrival of the new face of FF has angered some of the FFers

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/martin-faces-backlash-as-furious-tds-vent-anger-29807268.html

Kitt and Gilligan should stand aside immediately and let this real Fianna Failer get to work in Galway

eigrod

raymon wrote: »

Seemingly the arrival of the new face of FF has angered some of the FFers

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/martin-faces-backlash-as-furious-tds-vent-anger-29807268.html

Kitt and Gilligan should stand aside immediately and let this real Fianna Failer get to work in Galway

Hopefully the only good to come out of this is that it'll create more problems for FF than it will solve.

Going Forward

mango salsa wrote: »

Ah here don't give Colm more of an ego comparing him to Charlie.

The ego has landed?

golfball37

I think the bigger picture here is that the chairman of the Labaour party feels he is better fitted to a party he rallied against for years than the one he chose to represent.

I just wish the media would ask serious questions of Gilmore and what he has done to the Irish Labour party.

MouseTail

What an own goal for FF, have they any idea of what they have done? This will come back to haunt Martin.

Spanish Johnny

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Harry McGee suggests Kitt, if he stands again, may move to the new Roscommon–Galway constituency because a lot of his bailiwick is there. So this is starting to look like a political masterstroke on CK's part...

Yep absolutely opportunistic and will most likely take that seat.

death1234567

And people wonder why I don't vote.

Red Kev

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Independent says Keaveney will run in the new Roscommon-Galway constituency



This constituency consists of all Co Roscommon and only 35 EDs from the old Galway East. Roscommon independents Denis Naughten and Ming Flanagan will hold their seats. The third will almost definitely go to a candidate from north Roscommon, probably Frank Feighan of Fine Gael, as the hospital closure is not a big issue in that area.

No way is he running in Galway East- Roscommon. Martin Daly is from around Ballygar and he is the one earmarked for that. Keaveney has no base or connections in Roscommon and if he did put his name forward at a FF meeting Rachel Doherty would oppose it and probably win.

No idea where the Indo got that info but it won't happen.

road_high

MouseTail wrote: »

What an own goal for FF, have they any idea of what they have done? This will come back to haunt Martin.

They deserve everything and anything they get. Bunch of populist scum that they are.
Keaveney should fit right in with those shower of traitors. Vile everyone of them. Sold that the country down the river throught their utter incompetence and atrocious government.
It's no surprise the country is slowing recovering with them out of office. We were a laughing stock out in the real world with the likes of Cowen, Lenihan, Coughlan etc. "representing" us.

Dannyboy83

Kind of odd to stand by your principles and lose the whip,
then sh1t all over them by joining FF.

road_high

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Kind of odd to stand by your principles and lose the whip,
then sh1t all over them by joining FF.

It's clearly some attempt at saving his seat and his fat opposition salary in the process. He's obviously weighed up his options as an Independent and clearly sees his bacon being saved (or at least a much better chance of that happening) by joining his fellow FF traitors. That's all this is about at the end of the day. His salary and perks. Wonder is the wife still employed as an "Assistant"? He should get along very well with John McGuinness, cut from the same (rotten) cloth they are...

Loafing Oaf

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Yep absolutely opportunistic and will most likely take that seat.

And to pile on the speculation, if Kitt intends to hand on the torch to one of his kids next time, it may suit them (and FF HQ) to establish themselves in Roscommon Galway from the outset, and leave GE free to Keaveney. Who said stroke politics is dead?

eigrod

road_high wrote: »

It's clearly some attempt at saving his seat and his fat opposition salary in the process. He's obviously weighed up his options as an Independent and clearly sees his bacon being saved (or at least a much better chance of that happening) by joining his fellow FF traitors.

Exactly. Get elected first and decide what his policies and principles are afterwards. I really hope this backfires on him and FF.

MouseTail

eigrod wrote: »

Exactly. Get elected first and decide what his policies and principles are afterwards. I really hope this backfires on him and FF.

This man is utterly devoid of policies or principles, he serves neither Party or people, rather his own ego and careerist self serving agenda.

Spring Onion

Unbelievable news. What a muppet. Tuam will turn their back on him now.
It makes Irish politics look very bad.

grainnewhale

Spring Onion wrote: »

Unbelievable news. What a muppet. Tuam will turn their back on him now.
It makes Irish politics look very bad.

When did it look good?

zimmermania

grainnewhale wrote: »

What backbone did F.G have when there cowardly founder, agreed to leave a quarter of the country to suffer in a sectarian hell hole. To be fair to F.G they have maintained their gutless approach to the six counties ever since.

I presume you support one of the cowardly,murdering groups that still lay claim to the british part of this island?

michael999999

zimmermania wrote: »

I presume you support one of the cowardly,murdering groups that still lay claim to the british part of this island?

You can't vote for the dup or uup in Ireland!

zimmermania

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

They were both equally idiotic.

I dont know what Keaveney is thinking. I dont see the logic of it. I also read an interview with him not long after he resigned as Labour chair person where he strongly suggested he didnt want to run in the next GE but would prefer to work in Europe.

There will be one FF & one FG returned in the next GE in Galway East. Probably Kitt & Connaughton. So we are left with Keaveney (FF), Higgins (Lab) & Cannon FG to fight over the last place. It would be big big ask for Keaveney to poll ahead of those.

I do hope you are not studying politics!Higgins could not win a seat in yhe local elections,she wants to run for europe and she does not have a hope and it will be the same story in the general.The golf playing barrister joined lab when the party was the darling of the upper middle classes.Now that affair is over she will be in for a rude awakening.She has the support of some influencial Dublin big wigs in the party and that is the only reason she was put in the senate by Gilmore.The lady has yet to win an election and that is not about to change anytime soon.

zimmermania

michael999999 wrote: »

You can't vote for the dup or uup in Ireland!

I never said you could,but if you lived in Northern Ireland you could, as many do.

michael999999

zimmermania wrote: »

I never said you could,but if you lived in Northern Ireland you could, as many do.

Why do they vote for murderers?

And what has this got to do with the spineless keaveney weaseling his way into fianna fail?

grainnewhale

zimmermania wrote: »

I presume you support one of the cowardly,murdering groups that still lay claim to the british part of this island?

No I would only support those brave men and women. Fighting one of the biggest, richest killing machines in the world. I would vote for those who would rather fight and give up their lives, than to live under british oppression, knowing that successive irish goverments under f.f f.g and labour never lifted a finger to help them.

Spring Onion

Is this the Colm Keaveney thread?

Go sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here!!

Sierra Oscar

There may be some other big name TD's joining the ranks of FF in the not so distant future.

Peter Matthews Considers Joining Party ; Stephen Donnelly Does Not Rule Out Singing Up ; Three Other TD's Confirm Being Approached - Mail on Sunday

washman3

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

There may be some other big name TD's joining the ranks of FF in the not so distant future.

Peter Matthews Considers Joining Party ; Stephen Donnelly Does Not Rule Out Singing Up ; Three Other TD's Confirm Being Approached - Mail on Sunday

Many people, myself included have pinned their hopes that the likes of Matthews and Donnelly (and indeed Keaveney before his defection) delivering real reform in this corrupt little nation.
If guys like this are lost to the cancer in Irish politics, that is Fianna Fail, we can rest assured that there is little or no hope for this country.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

There may be some other big name TD's joining the ranks of FF in the not so distant future.

Is that official yet? How are the negotiations going with your party so far?

michael999999

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

There may be some other big name TD's joining the ranks of FF in the not so distant future.

Peter Matthews Considers Joining Party ; Stephen Donnelly Does Not Rule Out Singing Up ; Three Other TD's Confirm Being Approached - Mail on Sunday

They must be breaking out the vats of cash collected over the years in bribes and corrupt payments to try and get these guys to join the party.

What a corrupt, Backward and venomous political system we have in Ireland.

Sierra Oscar

raymon wrote: »

Is that official yet? How are the negotiations going with your party so far?

I have no idea, possibly just a journalist reading between the lines. I would be surprised if Donnelly or Matthews joined FF.

washman3

If Michael Healy-Rae or indeed Gerry Adams showed an interest in joining the party now they would be welcomed with open arms, such is the desperation in Fianna Fail to increase their seat count.

Loafing Oaf

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I would be surprised if Donnelly or Matthews joined FF.

Any more surprising than Colm Keaveney doing so?

You can see the rationale for both:

FF is looking for a high-profile Dublin candidate for the Euro elections and Matthews is looking for a party machine to support a run. FF may have somebody else lined up for that though.

Donnelly is a guy with a young family looking to build a lasting career in politics. According to Paddy Power, his chances of retaining his Dail seat as an Ind are about 50/50. AFAIK Dick Roche is retired, so there is vacant 'safe' FF seat in Wicklow. The noises Donnelly has been making lately suggests he wants to team up with a broader political movement to effect change but is skeptical about the prospects for a new party.

Toibin is the one that intrigues me, does anyone know if there is any substance to that. Would certainly be a big blow to the Shinners if one of their rising stars jumped ship for FF.

Annasopra

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Any more surprising than Colm Keaveney doing so?

You can see the rationale for both:

FF is looking for a high-profile Dublin candidate for the Euro elections and Matthews is looking for a party machine to support a run. FF may have somebody else lined up for that though.

Donnelly is a guy with a young family looking to build a lasting career in politics. According to Paddy Power, his chances of retaining his Dail seat as an Ind are about 50/50. AFAIK Dick Roche is retired, so there is vacant 'safe' FF seat in Wicklow. The noises Donnelly has been making lately suggests he wants to team up with a broader political movement to effect change but is skeptical about the prospects for a new party.

Toibin is the one that intrigues me, does anyone know if there is any substance to that. Would certainly be a big blow to the Shinners if one of their rising stars jumped ship for FF.

FF have clearly looked around and realised their only way back to power is by recruiting from across the political spectrum.

I think they are very confused politically by doing this though. I mean in Europe they align themselves with the liberals ALDE. They are essentially going after political; Conservatives (Matthews), Liberals (Donnelly), Social democrats (Keaveney, Toibin).

It reinforces what I've always thought about FF. They stand for nothing politically apart from populism. If communism were suddenly become popular I think they would recruit some CPI comrades.

TCDStudent1

zimmermania wrote: »

I do hope you are not studying politics!Higgins could not win a seat in yhe local elections,she wants to run for europe and she does not have a hope and it will be the same story in the general.The golf playing barrister joined lab when the party was the darling of the upper middle classes.Now that affair is over she will be in for a rude awakening.She has the support of some influencial Dublin big wigs in the party and that is the only reason she was put in the senate by Gilmore.The lady has yet to win an election and that is not about to change anytime soon.

Ok so that means Higgins wont be ahead of Keaveney.

But it is still a HUGE ask for him to win the 2nd FF seat. If I remember correctly, Kitt was one of the highest Fianna Fail pollers in the country at the last election and he seems determined to run again in the next election.

I do remember Higgins did quite well in Galway East in the last election, particularly around Athenry area which should be a focus with the new constituency maps.

People on here seem to be saying Keaveney went to FF because it GUARANTEES him a seat in the next election. That is far from the case.

Spanish Johnny

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Ok so that means Higgins wont be ahead of Keaveney.

But it is still a HUGE ask for him to win the 2nd FF seat. If I remember correctly, Kitt was one of the highest Fianna Fail pollers in the country at the last election and he seems determined to run again in the next election.

I do remember Higgins did quite well in Galway East in the last election, particularly around Athenry area which should be a focus with the new constituency maps.

People on here seem to be saying Keaveney went to FF because it GUARANTEES him a seat in the next election. That is far from the case.

They're not. We are saying he has engaged in a cynical ploy that will give him the very best chance of retaining his seat. There are no guarantess for anyone.

TCDStudent1

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

They're not. We are saying he has engaged in a cynical ploy that will give him the very best chance of retaining his seat. There are no guarantess for anyone.

Fair enough.

But what move do you think Keaveney should have made?

- Labour were ruled out because he didnt vote with them on the budget, and was widely applauded for it.

- Fine Gael is ruled out because of their coalition with Labour.

- Independent is ruled out because of Keaveney's outspoken views (which were far more vocal than his views on FF) on independents.




Bear in mind, I am NOT a Keaveney fan or supporter, the above is a genuine question.

Spanish Johnny

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Fair enough.

But what move do you think Keaveney should have made?

- Labour were ruled out because he didnt vote with them on the budget, and was widely applauded for it.

- Fine Gael is ruled out because of their coalition with Labour.

- Independent is ruled out because of Keaveney's outspoken views (which were far more vocal than his views on FF) on independents.




Bear in mind, I am NOT a Keaveney fan or supporter, the above is a genuine question.

Independents are not a unified group with a similar past. He could easily have bided his time as an Independent. Plenty of talk of new party formation. Why not drive this and lead it?

Whatever about his views on Independents how can anyone justify his move to FF? Do you believe his motivations or do you see them as an act of cynicism and self preservation?

I believe he had anything about him in terms of principle he would have stayed out as an Independent and fought on those terms and if he was not re-elected he should have considered walking away from politics rather than doing what he did. I really believe that.

But he couldn't because he is on the gravy train now and he is doing absolutely everything to stay on it like the rest.

TCDStudent1

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Independents are not a unified group with a similar past. He could easily have bided his time as an Independent. Plenty of talk of new party formation. Why not drive this and lead it?

Ideally, that would have been the best move. And I would hav loved to see it. In his interview in the Irish Independent on Saturday (conducted before he joined FF), he does mention that it is almost impossible to start a new party in Ireland. No idea how accurate that is.

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Whatever about his views on Independents how can anyone justify his move to FF? Do you believe his motivations or do you see them as an act of cynicism and self preservation?

I believe he had anything about him in terms of principle he would have stayed out as an Independent and fought on those terms and if he was not re-elected he should have considered walking away from politics rather than doing what he did. I really believe that.

How can somebody completely ignore his views on independents? And then highlight all the things he said about Fianna Fail? That is also not being fair on him.

I do not know his motivation to be honest. I am not sure it can be seen as an act of self-preservation when I think he probably had equally a good a chance of getting elected as indepedent as he did as a FF candidate. So if it was an act of self-preservation, I am not so sure it was the best move on his part.

I think I voted for Keaveney number 2 in the last election. I didnt agree with him not voting for the budget and decided then not to vote for him next time. His changing to Fianna Fail has not altered my thinking on that.

Spanish Johnny

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Ideally, that would have been the best move. And I would hav loved to see it. In his interview in the Irish Independent on Saturday (conducted before he joined FF), he does mention that it is almost impossible to start a new party in Ireland. No idea how accurate that is.



How can somebody completely ignore his views on independents? And then highlight all the things he said about Fianna Fail? That is also not being fair on him.

I do not know his motivation to be honest. I am not sure it can be seen as an act of self-preservation when I think he probably had equally a good a chance of getting elected as indepedent as he did as a FF candidate. So if it was an act of self-preservation, I am not so sure it was the best move on his part.

I think I voted for Keaveney number 2 in the last election. I didnt agree with him not voting for the budget and decided then not to vote for him next time. His changing to Fianna Fail has not altered my thinking on that.

With respect that is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. FF is a unified body with a core philosophy (populism) that has a shameful record in government when last there. Everyone of the policies that the current government are implementing are a direct consequence of FF actions that Keaveney slated and rightly so.

Independents had no impact on that-they are not a party therefore not all the same and not to be tarnished with the one brush. Saying you don't believe in the power of Independents is well and good but what about the 'power' of FF?? What happens if he ends up in government and realises again that FF are screwing up and implementing harsh cuts, etc?? He'l sit there like a hypocrite and take it because he will have cemented his seat which is all he is worried about.

He would also know well that FF courted Lorraine Higgins and another prominent Independent in Galway East before him yet he still had no problem bedding down with them.

Remember Michael Kitt did not know this decision was coming. The line was that it was Kitt's last term and Keaveney has set himself up to keep his seat - that's the bottom line. Also strictly speaking Kitt would not be in Galway East next time with the boundary reconstruction. Now due to revolt at grassroots and having not been consulted it seems Kitt is going to keep in for another bit. Will make it all the more interesting.

For Reals

What ever credibility he had for going against the whip, he lost joining Fianna Fail.
There is, (albeit leaderless at the moment) a move in Labour to actually follow a more socially political agenda. He could have remained in the party and stood for what the party professes to be, for the working people. He could have been a guiding light in the Labour movement. He could have played a part in Labour being a genuine party rather than a jump into bed with anyone political slag, who talks left but walks in any direction which might lead to a seat. Labour supporters are crying out for a stand by your guns representative as the academics in their HQ court the far right for the chance of an invite to the country club.
He's not even a clever opportunist. He blew it on all counts.

TCDStudent1

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

With respect that is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. FF is a unified body with a core philosophy (populism) that has a shameful record in government when last there. Everyone of the policies that the current government are implementing are a direct consequence of FF actions that Keaveney slated and rightly so.

Independents had no impact on that-they are not a party therefore not all the same and not to be tarnished with the one brush. Saying you don't believe in the power of Independents is well and good but what about the 'power' of FF?? What happens if he ends up in government and realises again that FF are screwing up and implementing harsh cuts, etc?? He'l sit there like a hypocrite and take it because he will have cemented his seat which is all he is worried about.

He would also know well that FF courted Lorraine Higgins and another prominent Independent in Galway East before him yet he still had no problem bedding down with them.

Remember Michael Kitt did not know this decision was coming. The line was that it was Kitt's last term and Keaveney has set himself up to keep his seat - that's the bottom line. Also strictly speaking Kitt would not be in Galway East next time with the boundary reconstruction. Now due to revolt at grassroots and having not been consulted it seems Kitt is going to keep in for another bit. Will make it all the more interesting.

1) I do not see how it is a ridiculous comparison. If he remained an independent, he could very easily be criticised for doing so. Vincent Browne gave him a very heavy questioning in the run-up to the last election and Keaveney was adamant that independents were a waste of time. How could he be expected to run as an independent in the next election after being so loud about it a couple of years ago? It just wouldn't be logical.

2) Do you have a source for this? I didnt hear anywhere that it was to be Kitts last term.

He's not even a clever opportunist.

I think this could be the truth of it. Maybe he just isnt that bright. There are people calling him opportunistic on here. And I dont agree because it just seems such a bad move for him. Perhaps, he just isnt that clever.

If he wants to remain a TD, the only options open to him were:

1) Join Fianna Fail
2) Start a new party

I would love if he chose option 2 instead of 1.