grayling fishing

Zzippy

Andip wrote: »

Interestingly enough I see that Grayling are classed as a protected species under the 'Berne Convention on the Conservation of European Wildlife and Natural Habitats' of which Ireland are a ratifying country.

If they were found in Ireland, albeit as an 'invasive' species, would the Irish authorities be limited in what they could do ?

No, grayling are not native to Ireland so their legal status here is unaffected by their protected status elsewhere. The Berne convention applies to species in their natural range. The brown bear is also a protected species under the Convention but I don't think they would be allowed roam free if introduced here either...

rsheehan

Budawanny wrote: »

Have only fished for the arctic ones myself ( as in fished in the arctic). didnt know there was a difference to be honest. Used in laws kit so no danger of cross contamination. was a few years ago..

I had a quick look on http://eol.org/ and I'm not sure how many exact species there are. The Arctic and European grayling both seem to be further subdivided into a number of subspecies. I don't know a hole lot about its taxonomy but it will give me something to read over Christmas.

Flysfisher

rsheehan wrote: »

Grayling are a lovely fish and I have been lucky enough to catch Grayling and Arctic grayling BUT..

I would hate to see them introduced to our Island. We have Europe's best trout and and salmon and grayling would not improve this. There is the danger that any grayling brought to Ireland could bring Gyrodactylus salaris 'fish/salmon fluke' with them. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11403770

This could potentially devastate our salmon rivers. I would hate to think a few short sighted anglers would put one of our finest natural resources 'Salmon' at risk.

As a quick note, if you fish in a country infected with Gyrodactylus please disinfect your kit before you use it again in Ireland and ask any visiting angling friends to do the same.

Incidentally what do you mean by Europes best trout and salmon?

rsheehan

Flysfisher wrote: »

Incidentally what do you mean by Europes best trout and salmon?

Angling product

Budawanny

rsheehan wrote: »

I had a quick look on http://eol.org/ and I'm not sure how many exact species there are. The Arctic and European grayling both seem to be further subdivided into a number of subspecies. I don't know a hole lot about its taxonomy but it will give me something to read over Christmas.

thats a very interesting website!

Flysfisher

rsheehan wrote: »

Angling product

Well it's not true, but that could be a thread in its own right.

rsheehan

Flysfisher wrote: »

Well it's not true, but that could be a thread in its own right.

Well its an opinion based on my subjective view so it can not be 'Well it's not true' just as much as it can not be 'true'.

Flysfisher

rsheehan wrote: »

Well its an opinion based on my subjective view so it can not be 'Well it's not true' just as much as it can not be 'true'.

With all respect you may need to revisit your subjective view and investigate the facts about the state of game angling in Ireland compared to some other countries.

Budawanny

Flysfisher wrote: »

With all respect you may need to revisit your subjective view and investigate the facts about the state of game angling in Ireland compared to some other countries.

the pedants have arrived!.
Nonsense. Your opinion FlyFisher is also subjective unless you can provide us with scientific evidence otherwise. Or you are God. if you beleive in such things.

perhaps we can now move along to discussing atheism instead if you like?

Flysfisher

Budawanny wrote: »

the pedants have arrived!.
Nonsense. Your opinion FlyFisher is also subjective unless you can provide us with scientific evidence otherwise. Or you are God. if you beleive in such things.

perhaps we can now move along to discussing atheism instead if you like?

Well that's a quality post.

Zzippy

Flysfisher wrote: »

With all respect you may need to revisit your subjective view and investigate the facts about the state of game angling in Ireland compared to some other countries.

His opinion is as much subjective as yours. Sure, you could point to Iceland and say anglers catch more salmon per rod day, but its so expensive that its far beyond the reach of ordinary anglers. Ireland might not have as many salmon per rod day, but fishing is generally affordable, and I know rivers where you can get a day permit for €20 with a very high chance of catching a salmon on any given day. He said "best angling product", not "best fishing". There is a lot more to the angling product than just the fishing - cost, access, climate, accommodation, facilities, guiding and much more.

Edit: And dazza161989 is going to have a fit considering we've gone even further off his chosen topic...

floattuber_lee

Just to stay off topic. There are not many places in Europe you can go and catch 3lb+ wild brownies off rivers or lakes for the matter. i would say Ireland would hold its own against most countries. However, I would also say it probably would be 10 times as good had it been looked after properly.

Flysfisher

Zzippy wrote: »

His opinion is as much subjective as yours. Sure, you could point to Iceland and say anglers catch more salmon per rod day, but its so expensive that its far beyond the reach of ordinary anglers. Ireland might not have as many salmon per rod day, but fishing is generally affordable, and I know rivers where you can get a day permit for €20 with a very high chance of catching a salmon on any given day. He said "best angling product", not "best fishing". There is a lot more to the angling product than just the fishing - cost, access, climate, accommodation, facilities, guiding and much more.

Edit: And dazza161989 is going to have a fit considering we've gone even further off his chosen topic...

Ah yes but 'cost of product' is not the issue here it's 'quality of product' focusing on the quality sadly I have to say we are lagging behind in so many areas. But I do take your point on the cost side, even though there are expensive spots here too.

Flysfisher

floattuber_lee wrote: »

Just to stay off topic. There are not many places in Europe you can go and catch 3lb+ wild brownies off rivers or lakes for the matter. i would say Ireland would hold its own against most countries. However, I would also say it probably would be 10 times as good had it been looked after properly.

In our rivers and most of our lakes 3lb trout are rare enough. Stock surveys show this.
With regard to 10 times better, well maybe not 10 times, but certainly a lot better with correct management and resources.

SeaFields

Mod: While this has been an interesting thread to read, if it going to venture into the state of game angling another thread should be created.

Keep this one to discuss grayling,other invasive species and those fish of ireland that it seems can only be caught on April 1st

floattuber_lee

Flysfisher wrote: »

In our rivers and most of our lakes 3lb trout are rare enough. Stock surveys show this.
With regard to 10 times better, well maybe not 10 times, but certainly a lot better with correct management and resources.

its still a lot better than most places!

rsheehan

Our green shore crab (my favourite wrasse bait!) is invasive on the east coast of North America. It causes a lot of damage to shellfish fisheries.

The top mouth gudgeon is a little fish that could have a very big impact on the angling species in Ireland. It could potentially be introduced as an aquarium release, or brought in with other fish that anglers intend to release or use as live bait or even in the aquaculture trade

dazza161989

Zzippy wrote: »

His opinion is as much subjective as yours. Sure, you could point to Iceland and say anglers catch more salmon per rod day, but its so expensive that its far beyond the reach of ordinary anglers. Ireland might not have as many salmon per rod day, but fishing is generally affordable, and I know rivers where you can get a day permit for €20 with a very high chance of catching a salmon on any given day. He said "best angling product", not "best fishing". There is a lot more to the angling product than just the fishing - cost, access, climate, accommodation, facilities, guiding and much more.

Edit: And dazza161989 is going to have a fit considering we've gone even further off his chosen topic...

>:-( !!!

RaPpSodIq

Hi all,

I`m reading from few weeks the fishing threads from Boards with "invasive" species.

I can tell you 110% that there is barbel in Ireland, and is not small.
I heard about grayling to but can`t tell exactly if is true.
In chub case is not a secret anymore........

I`ll make a deal....I`ll share a barbel water for a grayling one.

RaPpSodIq

Hi all,

I`m reading from few weeks the fishing threads from Boards with "invasive" species.

110% there is barbel in Ireland, and is not small.
I heard about grayling too but can`t tell exactly if is true.
In chub case is not a secret........

I`ll make a deal....I`ll share a barbel water for a grayling one.

rsheehan

RaPpSodIq wrote: »

Hi all,

I`m reading from few weeks the fishing threads from Boards with "invasive" species.

110% there is barbel in Ireland, and is not small.
I heard about grayling too but can`t tell exactly if is true.
In chub case is not a secret........

I`ll make a deal....I`ll share a barbel water for a grayling one.

Cryptic!

dodderangler

RaPpSodIq wrote: »

Hi all,

I`m reading from few weeks the fishing threads from Boards with "invasive" species.

I can tell you 110% that there is barbel in Ireland, and is not small.
I heard about grayling to but can`t tell exactly if is true.
In chub case is not a secret anymore........

I`ll make a deal....I`ll share a barbel water for a grayling one.

Il tell you where salmon of knowledge is if you tell me barbel location

RaPpSodIq

dodderangler wrote: »

Il tell you where salmon of knowledge is if you tell me barbel location

I`m not interested in salmon, but we can fish once together....I fish dodder quite often, and maybe I`ll tell you....

BTW today I made a trip around few small rivers (east coast) in searching of chalk stream or something similar with grayling habitat.....I couldn`t find anything similar but I found few streams that are just stunning. How can I add img?

Zzippy

RaPpSodIq wrote: »

I`m not interested in salmon, but we can fish once together....I fish dodder quite often, and maybe I`ll tell you....

BTW today I made a trip around few small rivers (east coast) in searching of chalk stream or something similar with grayling habitat.....I couldn`t find anything similar but I found few streams that are just stunning. How can I add img?

There are no barbel in Ireland. If you know of a location with barbel you should inform Invasive Species Ireland. And I don't think you can post links or images until you have 50 posts on boards.

RaPpSodIq

Zzippy wrote: »

There are no barbel in Ireland. If you know of a location with barbel you should inform Invasive Species Ireland. And I don't think you can post links or images until you have 50 posts on boards.

Ok, don`t want to enter in contradictory discussions with you guys. I`ll leave it like it is....

Only one curiosity why a fish species which doesn`t belong to a water is considered "invasive"? If we think of barbel for ex. is sharing the same area with trout but is not a direct competitor on trout food resource,and is not a predatory fish (in normal dimensions) ...like chub is for ex. For me, invasive is a too big word...

twin_beacon

my 2 cents on barbel in Ireland, I believe there were a few attempts at Illegal stockings over the years, but I guess they never spawned and died off. I doubt the stocking of the chub in the Inny was the first attempt at introducing them into Ireland either, the ones they were introduced then actually spawned. I've heard loads of people say there are barbel in Ireland, and if there was, and angler that would want them here would keep their capture very quiet if the caught one, as if it was reported, the river would be electro fished. However, there would have to have been accidental capture at some point, that would lead to the it getting into the public eye.

as a coarse angler, would I like barbel and chub on my doorstep? Yes. Do I support illegal stockings of fish? No. Who knows what potential disease these fish could bring, not to mention other foreign species, just look at the spread of the asian clam in Ireland.

Zzippy

RaPpSodIq wrote: »

Ok, don`t want to enter in contradictory discussions with you guys. I`ll leave it like it is....

Only one curiosity why a fish species which doesn`t belong to a water is considered "invasive"? If we think of barbel for ex. is sharing the same area with trout but is not a direct competitor on trout food resource,and is not a predatory fish (in normal dimensions) ...like chub is for ex. For me, invasive is a too big word...

They are called invasive because they are not native. Native species have evolved to fit into their ecosystem and fill a particular niche. Invasive species can have major impacts on native species by introducing disease, competing for food, predation, etc. There are good reasons for not wanting invasive species introduced. Deliberately introducing a non-native species, or encouraging it, is highly irresponsible and should not be tolerated.

twin_beacon

Zzippy wrote: »

They are called invasive because they are not native. Native species have evolved to fit into their ecosystem and fill a particular niche. Invasive species can have major impacts on native species by introducing disease, competing for food, predation, etc. There are good reasons for not wanting invasive species introduced. Deliberately introducing a non-native species, or encouraging it, is highly irresponsible and should not be tolerated.

+1

RaPpSodIq wrote: »

Ok, don`t want to enter in contradictory discussions with you guys. I`ll leave it like it is....

Only one curiosity why a fish species which doesn`t belong to a water is considered "invasive"? If we think of barbel for ex. is sharing the same area with trout but is not a direct competitor on trout food resource,and is not a predatory fish (in normal dimensions) ...like chub is for ex. For me, invasive is a too big word...

Chub and Barbel will feed on insect larvae and little shrimps which trout and other coarse fish will also feed on. Roach are invasive, their population has exploded over the last 50 years, at the expense of the bream (ironically, also a non native species!)

I wonder what would rivers like the middle reaches of the shannon for example be like if the coarse species were never introduced, and all that existed was just trout, salmon, pike and eels.

BrownTrout

The eel is almost extinct now as well. Weirs have prevented their upstream migration as they can't jump. We should focus on boosting what species we have rather than introducing new ones (although I do have a soft spot for the grayling). I would like to see the Dace electrofished out of the Blackwater

Zzippy

BrownTrout wrote: »

The eel is almost extinct now as well. Weirs have prevented their upstream migration as they can't jump. We should focus on boosting what species we have rather than introducing new ones (although I do have a soft spot for the grayling). I would like to see the Dace electrofished out of the Blackwater

Weirs have been on rivers for hundreds of years, and do not prevent elvers from migrating upstream. I'm guessing you've never watched elvers wriggling up moss-covered vertical surfaces to get past obstacles like weirs and waterfalls. The reason eels have declined so much is in the marine environment, we simply don't know why, but the numbers of glass eels and elvers entering our freshwater environment has crashed over the last 25 years, in spite of healthy runs of silver eels migrating to spawn for much of that period. Hard to know what we can do to boost eel stocks when we don't know why they aren't surviving at sea. Electro-fishing dace out of the Blackwater would be physically impossible BTW.