Who has been the worst player to start consistantly for a major club?

MagicIRL

Tom Cleverly. He doesn't just deserve criticism, he deserves a brick to the legs so he can retire for good.

grohlisagod

NiallMH93 wrote: »

Never rated Guti or Saldago in the Galacticos team.

Meija and Pavon started a lot of games too despite being extremely mediocre players.

2moreMinutes

Although he was never at a major club, I think all threads like this should give an honourable mention to the likes of Stephen Hunt. He's the one guy who gives me inspiration when I go through my weekly 5 a side inspired phase of thinking I'd be good enough to be a Premier League footballer.

Agueroooo

Recently: Downing

In the past: Bramble

Milkers

Cleverley a decent shout at the minute. Two years ago Jay Spearing had this category sewn up.

I am pie

smileyj1987 wrote: »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Welbeck

It has to be welbeck I mean look at the amount of goals he has that's pretty shocking for a striker who gets picked for the England national team .

He is 23 and has had about a season and a half of football, the majority of the early appearances being as a sub. Again, you'd need to get your ego in check if you think you're a better judge of a player than ferguson and moyes.

grohlisagod

Boumsong has got to be up there. Played regularly for Lyon, Juventus, Rangers and Newcastle despite being horribly error prone.

smileyj1987

I am pie wrote: »

He is 23 and has had about a season and a half of football, the majority of the early appearances being as a sub. Again, you'd need to get your ego in check if you think you're a better judge of a player than ferguson and moyes.

Ego in check ? A striker is jugded on their goals and welbeck doesn't score enough . That's how I judge a striker anyway .

Dempsey

I am pie wrote: »

All this forum shows is that either some people have no sense of perspective or undersanding of football or they are keen to get boring digs in at a rival.

Wellbeck (am not a Utd fan btw) has England caps, he is not the best striker in the top 8 teams, but he is far from awful. He is a reasonable premier league striker who doesn't disgrace himself at the top level.

Welbeck is a shocking striker and an indictment of the current weakness of the United squad & England NT. For the level he's suppose to playing at, he's near bottom of the barrel. Same goes for Cleverley.

Djimi Traore is right up there

EuropeanSon

elefant wrote: »

Soldado is really the best you can come up with? Out of all the players who have ever played for a big club?

7 goals in 12 games for Spain, 29 in 60 for Getafe 59 in 101 for Valencia. More than a goal every other game.

If he's the worst player, the standard of footballer at these clubs must be outrageously high.

What part of "for Spurs" were you unable to read?

GBXI

Dempsey wrote: »

Welbeck is a shocking striker and an indictment of the current weakness of the United squad & England NT. For the level he's suppose to playing at, he's near bottom of the barrel. Same goes for Cleverley.

Djimi Traore is right up there

That is just not true. He regularly starts for both Man Utd and England, and Alex Ferguson picked him ahead of Wayne Rooney in arguably the biggest game of Utd's season last year vs Real Madrid at Old Trafford. Welbeck is better than the vast majority of professional strikers, that's not even up for debate.

average_runner

GBXI wrote: »

That is just not true. He regularly starts for both Man Utd and England, and Alex Ferguson picked him ahead of Wayne Rooney in arguably the biggest game of Utd's season last year vs Real Madrid at Old Trafford. Welbeck is better than the vast majority of professional strikers, that's not even up for debate.

Welbeck is over rated. Still to produce at constant level. Needs to get 20 goals a season to be even mentioned with the top strikers

Dempsey

GBXI wrote: »

That is just not true. He regularly starts for both Man Utd and England, and Alex Ferguson picked him ahead of Wayne Rooney in arguably the biggest game of Utd's season last year vs Real Madrid at Old Trafford. Welbeck is better than the vast majority of professional strikers, that's not even up for debate.

He did and its a indictment of how weak United's & England's squads are. Thats not even up for debate

stooge

the other good parts to welbecks game (holding the ball up, bringing other players into the game, chasing down defenders etc) mean that he really shouldnt be mentioned in this thread. He played really well in some big matches last year despite not being a regular goalscorer.

Gervinho last season and the one before was the perfect example of a player who contributed little and scored few. Other honourable mentions for me would be:

- Victor Moses
- Gary Cahill (Terrible positioning for a defender)
- Milner (such an average boring player)
- Cleverly (no explanation needed)
- Ashley Young (another Milner)

castletownman

GBXI wrote: »

That is just not true. He regularly starts for both Man Utd and England, and Alex Ferguson picked him ahead of Wayne Rooney in arguably the biggest game of Utd's season last year vs Real Madrid at Old Trafford. Welbeck is better than the vast majority of professional strikers, that's not even up for debate.

He's fourth choice at best for his club, so yeah it is open to debate.

Skylinehead

stooge wrote: »

- Milner (such an average boring player)

Milner is a superb big game player, like Ji Sung Park was for Man Utd. Don't think he really belongs here, he does a job and does it well.

AdamD

stooge wrote: »

the other good parts to welbecks game (holding the ball up, bringing other players into the game, chasing down defenders etc) mean that he really shouldnt be mentioned in this thread. He played really well in some big matches last year despite not being a regular goalscorer.

Gervinho last season and the one before was the perfect example of a player who contributed little and scored few. Other honourable mentions for me would be:

- Victor Moses
- Gary Cahill (Terrible positioning for a defender)
- Milner (such an average boring player)
- Cleverly (no explanation needed)
- Ashley Young (another Milner)

Gervinho scored 7 goals in 26 games last season, sure he looks awful, but he was still more effective most of the wide players in the league..

Francie Barrett

At Liverpool, I'd have to say Henderson. While I certainly don't think he's a bad player, I don't think he's good enough to have started every Premier League game like he has this season.

elefant

EuropeanSon wrote: »

What part of "for Spurs" were you unable to read?

Right. So we're judging how good a player is entirely on 12 league starts then. Not on the players' ability, but on 12 games for a new club in a new league. Where he has 4 goals and 2 assists in those 12 starts.

He had to pick any player, anywhere, who starts for a major club and is a poor player, yet he chose Soldado.

And I'm the one who is uncomprehending.

GBXI

Dempsey wrote: »

He did and its a indictment of how weak United's & England's squads are. Thats not even up for debate

Weak relative to what? United are the current English League champions and England are one of the better international teams. Welbeck is neither of those team's best player, but he is an important squad player. Far from shocking.

GTR63

Skylinehead wrote: »

Milner is a superb big game player, like Ji Sung Park was for Man Utd. Don't think he really belongs here, he does a job and does it well.

Love the way you sidestepped the boring part.

GBXI

castletownman wrote: »

He's fourth choice at best for his club, so yeah it is open to debate.

Behind 2 of the best strikers in the world (Rooney and V. Persie) and Hernandez (who he is far more versatile than), at a club that is one of the strongest in the world. Hence, he is better than the vast majority of professional strikers.

Cantona's Collars

average_runner wrote: »

Welbeck is over rated. Still to produce at constant level. Needs to get 20 goals a season to be even mentioned with the top strikers

Never mind 20 goals a season,he'd do better to aim for 2.You just never feel confident in what he's gonna do in front of goal.9 times out of 10 he turns into Bambi on ice in front of goal.

GBXI

stooge wrote: »

- Milner (such an average boring player)

Milner is far from average. Poster's football understanding is really been shown up in this thread. He is a very good squad player in one of the best teams in England, possibly Europe, and has been for a long time. Regular England international too.

average_runner

GBXI wrote: »

Behind 2 of the best strikers in the world (Rooney and V. Persie) and Hernandez (who he is far more versatile than), at a club that is one of the strongest in the world. Hence, he is better than the vast majority of professional strikers.

Sorry Utd aren't one of the best in the world. Got destroyed in Europe last year.
Premier league last few years has been weak. It is still weak if not weaker this year.

England are not a top 10 side in the world even.

Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Holland, Italy, Belguim, Portugal, Uruguay, France and more ahead of them.

Francie Barrett

Michael Dawson for me is a really mediocre defender, slow, not assured on the ball, prone to howlers. Starts every game for Spurs.

Sergio Ramos has far too many mistakes in him to be playing for a truly top team like Real Madrid.

pappyodaniel

Dirk Kuyt for Liverpool. I truly admired his work rate but he was pretty crap in all fairness.

Dempsey

GBXI wrote: »

Weak relative to what? United are the current English League champions and England are one of the better international teams. Welbeck is neither of those team's best player, but he is an important squad player. Far from shocking.

Current champions yet not a hope of defending it. England might be going to the WC but they are unseeded

Again, you dont read my posts properly but rather take snippets out of context. Try reading my first post again, some very important points made that you ignored because I clearly stated "For the level he's suppose to be playing at".

keano_afc

Thread was made for Tom Cleverley. If he was at any other team in the league he wouldn't get a look in. That he has England caps as well is hilarious.

Anyone

Cleverly for me. The one good thing about him is he is proof my career as a professional football isn't over.

SlickRic

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Dirk Kuyt for Liverpool. I truly admired his work rate but he was pretty crap in all fairness.

hefferboi

Stewart fcuking downing

Djimi Traore

There is no question

hefferboi

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Dirk Kuyt for Liverpool. I truly admired his work rate but he was pretty crap in all fairness.

Shocking call.

GBXI

Dempsey wrote: »

Current champions yet not a hope of defending it. England might be going to the WC but they are unseeded

Again, you dont read my posts properly but rather take snippets out of context. Try reading my first post again, some very important points made that you ignored because I clearly stated "For the level he's suppose to be playing at".

You said he was a shocking striker, which he clearly isn't. You then said said he's close to the bottom of the barrel for the level he is suppose to be playing at. He has done absolutely fine at the level he is playing at, i.e. one of the leading English club teams, and one of the stronger international teams.

He is not at V Persie or Rooney or Suarez' level, but he is a very decent player (playing at the top end of professional players).

Skylinehead

GTR63 wrote: »

Love the way you sidestepped the boring part.

Boring != bad. Doesn't come into it at all.

Schwiiing

Pepe.

GBXI

average_runner wrote: »

Sorry Utd aren't one of the best in the world. Got destroyed in Europe last year.
Premier league last few years has been weak. It is still weak if not weaker this year.

England are not a top 10 side in the world even.

Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Holland, Italy, Belguim, Portugal, Uruguay, France and more ahead of them.

Utd just about lost to Real Madrid in Europe last year, hardly destroyed. And the English is still one of, if not, the most competitive leagues in the world.

England are comfortably as good as Italy, Belgium, Portugal, Uruguay, and France.

Dempsey

Yes, he has a shocking strike rate for the level his suppose to be at. If United fans are happy with players of his calibre in the squad but expect to be higher in the table then all I can do is laugh. United were lucky that all their rivals imploded last year, glosses over some very average players at the club

GBXI

Dempsey wrote: »

Yes, he has a shocking strike rate for the level his suppose to be at. If United fans are happy with players of his calibre in the squad but expect to be higher in the table then all I can do is laugh. United were lucky that all their rivals imploded last year, glosses over some very average players at the club

Ah come on! You surely know that not all of a team's strikers are going to score 20+ goals for their team in a season. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have scored more last season, but I watched a lot of Utd last year and he played an important part in a lot of their games. He is a very good foil to the more naturally talented strikers in Rooney and RVP.

You don't win a 38 game league by what, 8+ points, by being lucky. The best team will always win.

Gmol

I am pie wrote: »

All this forum shows is that either some people have no sense of perspective or undersanding of football or they are keen to get boring digs in at a rival.

Wellbeck (am not a Utd fan btw) has England caps, he is not the best striker in the top 8 teams, but he is far from awful. He is a reasonable premier league striker who doesn't disgrace himself at the top level.

Anyone picking Berbatov should take themselves out of the thread now, he has 48 goals in 108 games. i,e, he scored every other 2 games. You would need to be severely limited in your understanding of football to consider him to be the worst player to start for a major club. Add into the bargain he played with style, skill and a panache we don't usually see in the PL.

Lucas is laughable, given that he has been added to the Brazil World Cup squad, honestly if you think you are a better judge than the Brazilian manager you'd need to get your ego in check. Evidently he does a job that some of you don't understand.

Djemba-Djemba might be one that even the most ardent Utd fans wouldn't defend.

Bruno Cheyrou was lightweight and horrendous for Liverpool, not one of Rafa's better buys!

The truth is that it is hard for a major club to carry a really horrible player for too long as they will affect the performance of the team and be out on their ear, too much pressure at the top level to carry anyone.

And you were doing so well up to that point

average_runner

GBXI wrote: »

Utd just about lost to Real Madrid in Europe last year, hardly destroyed. And the English is still one of, if not, the most competitive leagues in the world.

England are comfortably as good as Italy, Belgium, Portugal, Uruguay, and France.

Competitive league doesnt make it the best. The Irish league was very competitive last year. More than the English, still not better than it.

We see in the World cup so, bookies have them 25/1

GBXI

average_runner wrote: »

Competitive league doesnt make it the best. The Irish league was very competitive last year. More than the English, still not better than it.

We see in the World cup so, bookies have them 25/1

It's competitive but also, technically and tactically as good as any other league. Barca/Real and Bayern/Dortmund are probably better than any English team technically but overall the English league is very good.

stevoslice

Julian Dicks...

Dempsey

GBXI wrote: »

It's competitive but also, technically and tactically as good as any other league. Barca/Real and Bayern/Dortmund are probably better than any English team technically but overall the English league is very good.

Cesc Fabregas & Xabi Alonso would disagree. I remember an article posted on this forum not long ago where he detailed how the tactics employed in the EPL & La Liga differ and how La Liga is harder tactically speaking.

EDIT

http://arsenaltruth.squarespace.com/arsenal-truth/2013/10/25/fabregas-and-alonso-deride-english-tackling.html

DrumSteve

Jamie Clapham for Boro back in the day, he was shocking.

Dolph Starbeam

Dempsey wrote: »

Cesc Fabregas & Xabi Alonso would disagree. I remember an article posted on this forum not long ago where he detailed how the tactics employed in the EPL & La Liga differ and how La Liga is harder tactically speaking.

EDIT

http://arsenaltruth.squarespace.com/arsenal-truth/2013/10/25/fabregas-and-alonso-deride-english-tackling.html

Tactics in England have always been behind the times. Hence why English players tend to need to be bigger than players from other countries. The EPL is more competitive than La Liga or Bundesliga but it is way behind technically and tactically.

Soft Falling Rain

Deleted User wrote: »

Djimi Traore

There is no question

True, but Djimi has a CL medal.

He's had his fun, and that's all that matters. :cool:

Sugarlumps

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Michael Dawson for me is a really mediocre defender, slow, not assured on the ball, prone to howlers. Starts every game for Spurs.

He used to be decent alongside King. But alas those days are numbered, he starts because the favoured partnership by most of Vertonghen/Kaboul hasn't come to fruition due to injuries.

TheDoc

Thread seems to mention "major clubs" and "consistently" played.

Nothing stinks of mediocrity and "what the hell" then Mikel for Chelsea for me, absolutely chuffed they snapped him of our hands