New clubs

lala88

This is just something i want to know out of interest. What kind of work would go into setting up a new club like Galway have?

They of course had an advantage that a pitch that was up to LOI standards was there already, but what is a LOI standard pitch?

What kind of money would be needed?

Would they have to be able to show the FAI they would have a fan base or do they decide that themselfs?

Just a few things im wondering

LiamoSail

You should ask this in a rangers forum, they'd be the experts in that field and I'm sure all too happy to help :pac:

ronjo

I thought this was going to be a sounding board for disgruntled United fans to decide who to support next

dreamers75

This


http://www.fai.ie/fai/licensing.html

oldyouth

dreamers75 wrote: »

This


http://www.fai.ie/fai/licensing.html

They're the rules alright . How every club bends them to meet requirements is agreed on a case by case basis with the FAI

Gavin "shels"

lala88 wrote: »

This is just something i want to know out of interest. What kind of work would go into setting up a new club like Galway have?

They of course had an advantage that a pitch that was up to LOI standards was there already, but what is a LOI standard pitch?

What kind of money would be needed?

Would they have to be able to show the FAI they would have a fan base or do they decide that themselfs?

Just a few things im wondering

Clubs have a turn over of anything up to €1.5-2 million afaik.

No club can predict a fanbase, look at Dublin City and Fingal. Even look at how Rovers fanbase has declined since they set up in Tallaght.

civis_liberalis

civis_liberalis

ronjo wrote: »

I thought this was going to be a sounding board for disgruntled United fans to decide who to support next

There's still time, I'm here all week!

doncarlos

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Needs more Fatboy Slim. You'll not get promoted with that effort...

dreamers75

doncarlos wrote: »

Needs more Fatboy Slim. You'll not get promoted with that effort...

I do love a good grudge

Now back the fcuk away from the petrol can

lala88

Do people think there should be a club from each county? You would think each county would have at least one club up to it. Or wouldd there be too many clubs then?

ArmaniJeanss

lala88 wrote: »

Do people think there should be a club from each county? You would think each county would have at least one club up to it.

Why?
Plenty of clubs have tried to tap into the 'only team in the county' spirit, and its been a failure. (Kildare County, Fingal County and EMFA Kilkenny).

County system isn't really an effective way to run a sport (it partially works for the GAA for various reasons)

BOHtox

lala88 wrote: »

Do people think there should be a club from each county? You would think each county would have at least one club up to it. Or wouldd there be too many clubs then?

Depends what you mean. I think there should be an appetite for at least one club from each county but I don't think they should be thrown in the deep end of the football league without any desire from the regional leagues to have representation in the LOI. I'd have loved to have seen Carlow, Tralee, Tullamore, Castlebar, Monaghan, Kildare, Kilkenny and anyone else who were in the league or who were once part of the league being in a situation where they could have made the step up to the LOI.

We've 19 teams! We should be crying out for new teams. There are even large parts of Dublin with no team representing the area. Rovers are the Tallaght club, Bohs are North Dublin, Pats seem to be mainly south inner city, obviously teams have support from other areas! Fingal and Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown don't have a team for them. I'll stop myself there because I could write pages of things on the subject of new teams and know that no one wants to hear it

darragh16

BOHtox wrote: »

Depends what you mean. I think there should be an appetite for at least one club from each county but I don't think they should be thrown in the deep end of the football league without any desire from the regional leagues to have representation in the LOI. I'd have loved to have seen Carlow, Tralee, Tullamore, Castlebar, Monaghan, Kildare, Kilkenny and anyone else who were in the league or who were once part of the league being in a situation where they could have made the step up to the LOI.

We've 19 teams! We should be crying out for new teams. There are even large parts of Dublin with no team representing the area. Rovers are the Tallaght club, Bohs are North Dublin, Pats seem to be mainly south inner city, obviously teams have support from other areas! Fingal and Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown don't have a team for them. I'll stop myself there because I could write pages of things on the subject of new teams and know that no one wants to hear it

You could also say that Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown have a choice of both UCD and Bray. Shels also represent the Northside. The Fingal experiment didn't really work out

BOHtox

darragh16 wrote: »

You could also say that Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown have a choice of both UCD and Bray. Shels also represent the Northside. The Fingal experiment didn't really work out

Fingal didn't work out at all. If it was given a year or two and managed to get their act together in Lusk you never know what would have happened. I'd rather a junior club make the leap up than a new club altogether. I don't think someone from Dublin will support a team from Wicklow, particularly with the name of a town as the team name and I find it hard to see how UCD may attract any support at all!

I wasn't too sure where Shels get their support from. I imagine a lot of their support still comes from the southside tbh.

Gavin "shels"

BOHtox wrote: »

I wasn't too sure where Shels get their support from. I imagine a lot of their support still comes from the southside tbh.

Was a survey done by our Supporters' Trust, one of the things was to find out where are support base is. Large portion was northside and north county, but still a good portion from south inner city, and the outskirts.

lala88

BOHtox wrote: »

Fingal didn't work out at all. If it was given a year or two and managed to get their act together in Lusk you never know what would have happened. I'd rather a junior club make the leap up than a new club altogether. I don't think someone from Dublin will support a team from Wicklow, particularly with the name of a town as the team name and I find it hard to see how UCD may attract any support at all!

I wasn't too sure where Shels get their support from. I imagine a lot of their support still comes from the southside tbh.

On the subject of UCD, iv always worried do the players have to be in UCD or what? Also do they have any fan base?

lala88

BOHtox wrote: »

Depends what you mean. I think there should be an appetite for at least one club from each county but I don't think they should be thrown in the deep end of the football league without any desire from the regional leagues to have representation in the LOI. I'd have loved to have seen Carlow, Tralee, Tullamore, Castlebar, Monaghan, Kildare, Kilkenny and anyone else who were in the league or who were once part of the league being in a situation where they could have made the step up to the LOI.

We've 19 teams! We should be crying out for new teams. There are even large parts of Dublin with no team representing the area. Rovers are the Tallaght club, Bohs are North Dublin, Pats seem to be mainly south inner city, obviously teams have support from other areas! Fingal and Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown don't have a team for them. I'll stop myself there because I could write pages of things on the subject of new teams and know that no one wants to hear it

The ''A'' championship they had for a few year was a good idea i think it should be looked at again but have more clubs instead of ''B'' teams. The other side of it is the likes of Tralee, Carlow etc found it hard to compete with the ''B'' teams so would they even be able to compete with Div 1 teams if they fo there.

Ferris_Bueller

I think one of the problems with Kildare County was that a lot people from outside Newbridge felt it was a 'Newbridge team', yet people from Newbridge didn't get fully behind it either, maybe if it had of been Newbridge Town who were thrown into the league things could have worked out differently - they would have had a lot of schoolboys, coaches, ex-players etc. who might have followed the club a bit more, rather than a completely new club who had no past whatsoever.

Rhys Essien

Considering that Monaghan United went out of business because they could'nt come up with 80k while John Delaney earns around 400k.Also,dont the league winners only get 100k,again while the 'dear leader' gets ~400k.There are so many things wrong,the way the whole lot is run.

Should multi-millionaire Shane Long try and get a club up and running in his home county of Tipperary?

Will Sligo Rovers get any money if Colman is sold on by Everton for 10-15m as is being reported?

BOHtox

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Considering that Monaghan United went out of business because they could'nt come up with 80k while John Delaney earns around 400k.Also,dont the league winners only get 100k,again while the 'dear leader' gets ~400k.There are so many things wrong,the way the whole lot is run.

Should multi-millionaire Shane Long try and get a club up and running in his home county of Tipperary?

Will Sligo Rovers get any money if Colman is sold on by Everton for 10-15m as is being reported?

Don't think there is an onus on players like him to help football in a county, not sure whether he does or not, but Kevin Doyle certainly does. He donated money, perhaps twice, to Wexford Youths ,each time being 5 figure sums, to keep them afloat or in their home ground.

When he moved to Wolves he made sure that a friendly against Youths was included in it and the friendly raised enough money to pay the club's bills for the entire year! I'm pretty sure Doyle and Damien Duff have said that they want a year or two in the LOI when their careers at the top flight reach an end!

Vision of Disorder

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Considering that Monaghan United went out of business because they could'nt come up with 80k

Monaghan United went out of business because they over-budgeted severely. I know you weren't really suggesting otherwise in any sense but the general fallacy that hard-working, cautious little Monaghan were hard done somehow has always grated with me.

Gavin "shels"

lala88 wrote: »

On the subject of UCD, iv always worried do the players have to be in UCD or what? Also do they have any fan base?

Afaik it used to be only UCD students/graduates. Don't think that happens any more though.

losthorizon

BOHtox wrote: »

Don't think there is an onus on players like him to help football in a county, not sure whether he does or not, but Kevin Doyle certainly does. He donated money, perhaps twice, to Wexford Youths ,each time being 5 figure sums, to keep them afloat or in their home ground.

When he moved to Wolves he made sure that a friendly against Youths was included in it and the friendly raised enough money to pay the club's bills for the entire year! I'm pretty sure Doyle and Damien Duff have said that they want a year or two in the LOI when their careers at the top flight reach an end!

Doyle has already had more than two years in the LOI

leposean

UCD Players don't have to be UCD Students however the reality is they are a LOI club who's average attendance is probably less than 100 if you took away the press, the away fans and the kids and their parents who play a game during the half time break which you dont see on MNS etc.

There is always 2 teams, about 20-30 kids there from Mt Merrion and Cabinteely etc who have a mini game at half time, u 7s or so, n their mams n dads come along, watch little fella play ten minutes n then they run around like headless chickens for the second half in the stand and area surrounding paying little or no attention to the game itself.

These parents and kids dont pay in either they are invited by the club through the Cabinteely or Mt.Merrion etc.

The players themselves are paid little or nothing as most of them are on scholarships with the college, their wage is their education. Lookat Mick Leahy for example. Not that anyone can begrudge him his move to Limerick, he served UCD for 5 years as a Intervarsity/Collingwood players, reserve team/A championship/U19s, first teamer, captain. Got his degree ''free'' on a sports scholarship, his masters the same n probably got about €100 a game as an appearance fee.

To put the appearance fee into perspective, Wayside Celtic up the road have 2 players on €150 per game in the LSL.

leposean

As for the new club thing.

If I won the Euro millions I would set up my own LOI club, 100% if you have money and are paying them lets be honest the FAI wouldnt give a ****.

Set it up with a reasonable plan though. Look at huge schoolboy clubs, not even huge traditionally, huge player base wise. Someone like Cabinteely, think they have pretty much 4 teams each age from7s-11s n 3 from 12s-18s.

They state 870 players. Now think, you have nearly 900 kids playing for ''your club'' ticket prices are €5 for all members of Cabinteely FC and their parents, €10 for everyone else. Every kid playing for that club would say wow when Im older I could play for the first team. Build a small stadium and I mean small. You'd be laughing.

Tallaght Stadium cost 11.5 million to build in the boom period and because of delays etc. You'd build something half the size in this day n age for 5 million. Main cost being the land off the council.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Kilbogget+Park,+Dublin,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.256523,-6.138117&spn=0.008254,0.018539&sll=53.284036,-6.374355&sspn=0.008249,0.018539&oq=kilbogget+pa&t=h&z=16 where the running track there. That are(in between the houses and the paths and trees) its circumfrance is only 20 metres smaller than that of Tallaght stadium(basic measure on Google Earth)

That price, the amount of dads who would pay a fiver each to bring their son/daughter n themselves to a LOI game, in the same park for the same club that said child plays for.

Give Ballybrack Boys who's just down and to the right(literally 100metres from the track) have their pitches, their own all weather and clubhouse the exact same deal and you'd be onto a winner. You wouldnt be making a load of money or anything out of it but say you got 500 people per game, thats €2500 per game coming in. I reckon you'd get more to be honest but still If I won 100million on the Euromillions I'd give it a go. Guarantee they'd be promoted and of won the league within 5 years
You'd still get the likes of Ballybrack Boys

overshoot

leposean wrote: »

If I won the Euro millions I would set up my own LOI club, 100% if you have money and are paying them lets be honest the FAI wouldnt give a ****.

unfortunately i think thats the only way we will get a club into the league in its current format. as we continue to lose a club every year or 2, why would any junior/intermediate club risk their existence trying to find the extra 100grand minimum to field amateurs?
D1 is going to have to be softened up some way to make the step more manageable, whatever repercussions it may have for the premier too. the LOI would be better taking a step down now imho than wait until its forced as more clubs dissapear and the job is harder.

Tallaght Stadium cost 11.5 million to build in the boom period and because of delays etc. You'd build something half the size in this day n age for 5 million.

Finn Park II was valued at 9million during the boom, c7million now for a 4 stand 6,600 all seater & training pitches, car park.... actual building work on the other hand....

oldyouth

losthorizon wrote: »

Doyle has already had more than two years in the LOI

He has stated that he would like to play for the Youths when he returns to live in his newly built house in the area. A while off yet

lala88

If clubs could get the likes Doyle and Damien Duff and others to play a season or so with them at the end of their careers it would be a great way to get people to go to games, much like in the 70's when the likes of Best and Hurst played with different LOI teams

Vision of Disorder

lala88 wrote: »

If clubs could get the likes Doyle and Damien Duff and others to play a season or so with them at the end of their careers it would be a great way to get people to go to games, much like in the 70's when the likes of Best and Hurst played with different LOI teams

It wouldn't have the effect you envisage in my opinion, Keith Gillespie (not comparing him directly to Duff, whatever about Doyle), for example, didn't exactly draw crowds to Longford in his sojurn there.

I'm not saying it would have no impact but I think it would be fairly minimal in terms of boosting crowds in real terms. David Kelly (whose career was about the equal of Kevin Doyle's I think it's fair to say) was another whose spell at Derry City (Cup final and all) went pretty much unnoticed by the majority.

lala88

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

It wouldn't have the effect you envisage in my opinion, Keith Gillespie (not comparing him directly to Duff, whatever about Doyle), for example, didn't exactly draw crowds to Longford in his sojurn there.

I'm not saying it would have no impact but I think it would be fairly minimal in terms of boosting crowds in real terms. David Kelly (whose career was about the equal of Kevin Doyle's I think it's fair to say) was another whose spell at Derry City (Cup final and all) went pretty much unnoticed by the majority.

Well thats the other side if it. You could also say that Kelly & Gillespie had been out of the limelight (if they were ever really in it in Kellys case) so that could have played its part in it.

Just for example (this is one that will never happen) but Robbie Keane playing for Shamrock Rovers would be a huge draw.

Im not too sure what impact the likes of Best and co had in their day playing LOI.

civis_liberalis

Having players well past their prime lining out of in the LOI only devalues it and makes the league looks even more Mickey Mouse than it already appears to be.

oldyouth

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

It wouldn't have the effect you envisage in my opinion, Keith Gillespie (not comparing him directly to Duff, whatever about Doyle), for example, didn't exactly draw crowds to Longford in his sojurn there.

I'm not saying it would have no impact but I think it would be fairly minimal in terms of boosting crowds in real terms. David Kelly (whose career was about the equal of Kevin Doyle's I think it's fair to say) was another whose spell at Derry City (Cup final and all) went pretty much unnoticed by the majority.

Keith Gillespie had a sponsor who paid his wages directly. He was a washed out gambling addict who had no interest in playing LOI and did his best to get sent off in every match I saw him play, often with great success

lala88

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Having players well past their prime lining out of in the LOI only devalues it and makes the league looks even more Mickey Mouse than it already appears to be.

They do a good job of it in the MLS

[Jackass]

Sadly there's no future for football in Ireland. That boat has well and truly passed.

You could have a premier division last day of the season decider going on and the people who live on the streets next to the stadium would be in their living rooms watching Liverpool vs Spurs. The fan base is entirely absorbed by the English league now that the point of penetration is a tiny, tiny percentage would even have the remotest interest in supporting and going to see an Irish team.

Even the national team struggles to get 30,000 into Lansdowne Road at the best of times (and usually is only at half capacity of around 25,000 for international games, less than most premier league club average attendance), so if the national team is only matching attendance of someone like Swansea City, good luck ever getting a proper club in Ireland.

Like it or not, the ONLY chance the LOI would ever have would be complete restructure of the league and participating teams, the main thing being a max of two dublin clubs - that in it's self would completely alienate existing fans, but if it had more of a GAA / Rugby set up (sucessful sports in this country) it might have a chance, but would need serious financial backing, probably from Government, in the interest of the nation, getting a structural survey done on the state of Irish football and follow recommendations to have a representitive league of the entire country and areas of opportunity where there aren't big local competitors for fan base (i.e. GAA, Rugby - can't really avoid the English football effect), but to make a long story short, LOI is dead, has been for decades and always will be.

leposean

Going back to my Cabinteely FC LOI team. With my Euro Millions, I'd sign Ronaldinho at 34, give him a house and 2 million for the season, just to say I saw Ronaldinho play for my club Saw him score a hatrick in 2010 for Milan v Siena. Technically, the best player I've ever seen. Saw Messi in El Classico 2 months ago and he is the best player I've ever seen but the stuff Ronaldinho did. WOW

Vision of Disorder

lala88 wrote: »

(if they were ever really in it in Kellys case) so that could have played its part in it.

Not like that Kevin Doyle playing in the glare of League 1...