None of my business or duty to warn?

Sleepy

username123 wrote: »

Seriously, there has even been a comment that men cant take as much responsibility for contraception as women - is this really where we are at in society, that poor men get trapped by nefarious women because the poor fools blindly trust and cant take responsibility themselves? Its very sexist imo.

It's a fact that women have more options for contraception than a man. The are only options a man can take unilaterally: sterilisation or abstinance. Women can, without any input from a partner, opt for a wide range of non-permanantly irreversible contraception: oral contraceptive pill, implants, injection, the coil and arguably (though inadvisable to treat either as such) morning after pill and abortion.

Other options such as condoms, spermicidal lube, femdoms etc. are the responsibility of both parties. I can't see how pointing this out is sexist? The entire area of contraception is one where women have privilege over men and, while it's rare, there are women like the OP's friend who abuse this privilege.

While I'd agree that trust is blind in a one-night stand situation and would consider anyone not insisting on barrier contraception in those circumstance to be foolish, I don't think the same standards can be expected of someone in a relationship. Is it really "blind" trust when you trust someone you're in a relationship with?

ivytwine

Sleepy wrote: »

It's a fact that women have more options for contraception than a man. The are only options a man can take unilaterally: sterilisation or abstinance. Women can, without any input from a partner, opt for a wide range of non-permanantly irreversible contraception: oral contraceptive pill, implants, injection, the coil and arguably (though inadvisable to treat either as such) morning after pill and abortion.

Other options such as condoms, spermicidal lube, femdoms etc. are the responsibility of both parties. I can't see how pointing this out is sexist? The entire area of contraception is one where women have privilege over men and, while it's rare, there are women like the OP's friend who abuse this privilege.

While I'd agree that trust is blind in a one-night stand situation and would consider anyone not insisting on barrier contraception in those circumstance to be foolish, I don't think the same standards can be expected of someone in a relationship. Is it really "blind" trust when you trust someone you're in a relationship with?

Another (last) point from me. We have no idea what this woman is telling this man. I remember my first boyfriend was clueless about contraception and he wasn't too much younger than this guy- arguably this was his own fault, but whatever- if this guy is a bit sheltered it would be easy enough to feed him a string of lies.

None of us, OP included, know what's happening in the bedroom between these two. Maybe she is telling him that she hates condoms, maybe even she's allergic to latex- we have no idea.

I am a woman. I am exactly 10 years younger than this one. And I think 'tricking' a man into having a child like this is one of the most despicable things a woman can do. I know my own window of fertility is limited (still not sure I want kids tbh!) and if the next ten years go as fast as the last ten have gone I will have to get my skates on. I just know that I would rather be childless than live with the knowledge of having done that to someone.

username123

Women may have more options Sleepy, but men have just as much responsibility imo.

Yes, I agree with you that in a committed relationship there should be trust but genuinely if someone does not want a child (as opposed to doesnt mind) - they need to take care of contraception for themselves. And the relationship outlined in the OP is anything but a committed relationship - the OP said the guy sees it as a casual thing.

As pointed out - sex is a loaded gun, if you cant take the hit from the bullet then you need to sort out your own side of contraception.

username123

ivytwine wrote: »

None of us, OP included, know what's happening in the bedroom between these two. Maybe she is telling him that she hates condoms, maybe even she's allergic to latex- we have no idea.

This is true and holds both ways, he could just as easily be telling her its grand if she gets pregnant while publically denouncing the idea of fatherhood. No one knows except the people in the relationship.

LegacyUser

OP here. Thanks for the replies. I was nearly too afraid to post this as I expected people to lash out and tell me to mind my own business.

username123 wrote: »

The level of description and judgement that the OP is making about other peoples moral choices rings a bit off with me tbh. It's all a bit curtain twitching and judging that she knows what's best for other people.

I find this pretty offensive, and I think you are being very judgemental of my actions.
I’m not an interfering person at all and not saying I know what’s best for anyone, i usually turn a blind eye but this situation got to me.

As I already posted, I did initially turn a blind eye but now several days later I’m still thinking about it and it doesn’t sit right with me. If this were my brother, I would hate to think a woman did this to him, led him to believe she was taking care of BC while that is untrue, and friends knew but kept their mouths shut.

I never interfere in other people’s moral choices, and am the last person to ‘curtain twitch’ or judge. I’m simply stating the facts. I know that he’s very immature and I know he definitely doesn’t want kids, he’s quite vocal about it.





I don’t think I can gain anything more by talking to her about it. I made it very clear the night she told us that I believed it to be very wrong, and that he is a manchild and not mature enough to ‘man up’ overnight if/when he learns she is pregnant.

The other girls present backed her up, told me it was her body her decision, and seemed to think this was ‘just what he needed’ to cop onto himself, they were probably just keeping the peace but this was all she needed to hear to validate it. It wouldn’t have been discussed normally but everyone was tipsy at the time.

To be clear, she isn’t a nasty evil person, she is very kind and caring, she has just become completely blinded by the idea of not becoming a mother. I don’t doubt that she would be a great mother (and think she would cope well with a sperm donor, we discussed this but she said she can’t afford it) but the nature of ‘trapping’ an immature young lad with plans to travel (some flights booked) doesn’t sit easy with me.

She had an eating disorder for many years and was completely consumed by this so did not have any relationships for several years prior to now. The ED also played havoc with her biological health, so I don’t believe children were an option for several of her ‘prime’ years.

While I haven’t been ‘sworn to secrecy’, she told us this info in a situation where it was expected to be kept private. I feel it would be morally wrong for me to directly tell him, but it’s probably more morally wrong if he's not made aware.

I don’t want to lose her as a friend altogether as we’ve never had any problems previously, she is a good person behind all of this, but I don’t know if I can stand by and ignore it.
I think the best option is what someone suggested – I mention it to my brother.

Maybe I can set it up in such a way that he tells his friend he overheard a few of the girls talking and they were discussing this situation, and that he better watch out. I just don’t know if he’d heed my brother as they’re constantly slagging each other about women.

I’m not sure what more I can do? It’s not my duty to pry into why he doesn’t use contraception, but I know for a fact that he was clear with her from the start that he wasn’t interested in a long term relationship or anything serious, and that he didn’t feel they were suitable long term due to the age gap. She agreed to these terms when they started dating.

I didn’t understand why she was getting involved with someone so young and disinterested as I felt she deserved better, but I fear now that babies were all that were in her mind and she was on a mission to find some man, any man..

Clearlier

username123 wrote: »

This is true and holds both ways, he could just as easily be telling her its grand if she gets pregnant while publically denouncing the idea of fatherhood. No one knows except the people in the relationship.

It's quite possible that those in the relationship don't know either but in the real world we try and weigh up probablilities.

If he is telling the woman that it's grand if she gets pregnant then I think that the cost of telling him what she said outweighs the cost of not telling him if he hasn't.

Taltos

OK guys - back on topic please. As you all know this is not a discussion forum. Any further off topic discussions or agenda's will result in moderator action.

Cheers

kunst nugget

whatshouldido wrote: »

I don’t want to lose her as a friend altogether as we’ve never had any problems previously, she is a good person behind all of this.

I'm sorry but if she is being so casually deceitful about something as important as this, she's not a good person…

ivytwine

whatshouldido wrote: »

OP here. Thanks for the replies. I was nearly too afraid to post this as I expected people to lash out and tell me to mind my own business.



I find this pretty offensive, and I think you are being very judgemental of my actions.
I’m not an interfering person at all and not saying I know what’s best for anyone, i usually turn a blind eye but this situation got to me.

As I already posted, I did initially turn a blind eye but now several days later I’m still thinking about it and it doesn’t sit right with me. If this were my brother, I would hate to think a woman did this to him, led him to believe she was taking care of BC while that is untrue, and friends knew but kept their mouths shut.

I never interfere in other people’s moral choices, and am the last person to ‘curtain twitch’ or judge. I’m simply stating the facts. I know that he’s very immature and I know he definitely doesn’t want kids, he’s quite vocal about it.





I don’t think I can gain anything more by talking to her about it. I made it very clear the night she told us that I believed it to be very wrong, and that he is a manchild and not mature enough to ‘man up’ overnight if/when he learns she is pregnant.

The other girls present backed her up, told me it was her body her decision, and seemed to think this was ‘just what he needed’ to cop onto himself, they were probably just keeping the peace but this was all she needed to hear to validate it. It wouldn’t have been discussed normally but everyone was tipsy at the time.

To be clear, she isn’t a nasty evil person, she is very kind and caring, she has just become completely blinded by the idea of not becoming a mother. I don’t doubt that she would be a great mother (and think she would cope well with a sperm donor, we discussed this but she said she can’t afford it) but the nature of ‘trapping’ an immature young lad with plans to travel (some flights booked) doesn’t sit easy with me.

She had an eating disorder for many years and was completely consumed by this so did not have any relationships for several years prior to now. The ED also played havoc with her biological health, so I don’t believe children were an option for several of her ‘prime’ years.

While I haven’t been ‘sworn to secrecy’, she told us this info in a situation where it was expected to be kept private. I feel it would be morally wrong for me to directly tell him, but it’s probably more morally wrong if he's not made aware.

I don’t want to lose her as a friend altogether as we’ve never had any problems previously, she is a good person behind all of this, but I don’t know if I can stand by and ignore it.
I think the best option is what someone suggested – I mention it to my brother.

Maybe I can set it up in such a way that he tells his friend he overheard a few of the girls talking and they were discussing this situation, and that he better watch out. I just don’t know if he’d heed my brother as they’re constantly slagging each other about women.

I’m not sure what more I can do? It’s not my duty to pry into why he doesn’t use contraception, but I know for a fact that he was clear with her from the start that he wasn’t interested in a long term relationship or anything serious, and that he didn’t feel they were suitable long term due to the age gap. She agreed to these terms when they started dating.

I didn’t understand why she was getting involved with someone so young and disinterested as I felt she deserved better, but I fear now that babies were all that were in her mind and she was on a mission to find some man, any man..

Honest to God the more I read the more I am convinced that he has to know. I think mentioning it to your brother is the best thing to be honest. Let it filter back to this guy and let him do the break up.

I assume she has had counselling and treatment for the eating disorder, but she sounds in a very fragile position for motherhood. Would she be able to cope on her own with a baby? Financially at the very least, her situation sounds very precarious, something she knows I assume as she's is targeting a guy with a bit of cash behind him.

Would her career be stable enough to survive her maternity leave and the necessary taking of time off to mind a small baby? What would she do for childcare, would she be on welfare? That's a very hard path to go down.

This guy has flights booked! He might just hop on a plane and leave her here on her own, this whole thing is just madness!

I am really convinced you should tell your brother what you've heard.


And lastly- I am mindful of what Taltos said about avoiding discussion on the morality of this, but I feel like I have to say it- I am shocked, completely and utterly shocked at the attitude of her friends who think this is ok. 'Her body'? What about him?! The fact that there are women who think this is an acceptable thing to do makes me despair.

Dave!

Tell him, OP. I feel slightly ill the more I read about this devious wench. If she doesn't trick this guy into getting her pregnant, then you'll probably find her at a hospital trying to snatch herself a newborn. What an oddball. Nobody is entitled to a baby — you either plan it, or it happens by accident. Deceiving someone into getting you pregnant is disgusting.

flikflak

This woman would seem to have major issues (the previous ED issues and the baby track mind). Perhaps she thinks a baby will magically solve all her problems and she will have someone who will love her unconditionally.

The lad in the situation seems to see this person as a F/buddy.

This is no relationship, simply two people with 2 very different agendas having sex to suit their agendas.

Tell him and also advise her maybe she might need further professional help with dealing with her mental health.

username123

whatshouldido wrote: »

I find this pretty offensive, and I think you are being very judgemental of my actions.

I apologise if you found it offensive but you came here and asked for opinions. I would not have offered an opinion unasked.

You are making judgements, people on here are making judgements, we are all making judgements based on the story. However - you are asking for people to tell you what they think, whereas these people are not asking for your opinion on their relationship or actions.

Best of luck with it anyway.

Matteroffact

The woman in question is nearly 10 years older than the guy. I feel that this guy is entitled to know what is happening. He is too immature to realize that there are such women out there and he needs to be warned. She is being dishonest to the extreme in trying to trap him. It is disgusting. I would definitely not hesitate to let him know and the quicker the better. I hope he breaks up with her when he finds out.

eviltwin

I think you need to protect yourself OP. She sounds like a very unstable woman and your latest post just confirms my belief you should tell him. If she does end up pregnant, the fall out is going to be huge and I would be worried she would tell this guy that you knew she was trying for a baby all along and you get dragged into it.

Its up to you how you use this information but I do think you need to ask yourself how you will feel if she does become pregnant. I can totally appreciate you are stuck between a rock and a hard place here and you don't want to lose your friends but this woman seems to be a complete Water Mitty and tbh she needs protecting from herself as much as he does.

I think Flikflak is right, the baby seems to be her way of starting over rather than addressing the issues head on. No child deserves that.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

Had a friend in a similar situation some years ago. There was a considerable age gap between the guy and my friend, the guy use to treat her like sh*t, regularly standing her up and so forth, she felt that her biological clock was ticking so unknown's to the guy she came off the pill in an attempt to become pregnant. It didn't work out the way she had planned it though. When she broke the news to him that she was pregnant, understandably his immediate response was that she was trying to trap him and he told her to go and have an abortion. They eventually got back together, but the relationship fizzled out for obvious reasons. The last I heard was that she ended up being a single parent although he's involved in the life of the kid.

Turning to your dilemma, ask yourself how you'd feel if a close friend of your brother knew that his girlfriend was trying to become pregnant without his knowledge? While the guy is stupid for not using protection, this is a matter of deception, so it's not really the issue here.

Jenneke87

The very least a baby/child deserves is two loving parents who both actually want the child and who aren't behaving like children themselves. Tell him.

The Corinthian

whatshouldido wrote: »

The other girls present backed her up, told me it was her body her decision, and seemed to think this was ‘just what he needed’ to cop onto himself, they were probably just keeping the peace but this was all she needed to hear to validate it.

As a man, it's really disturbing to hear that such attitudes are not limited to a few rare cases.

Morality aside, this is how the options pan out.

You don't tell him. Unless he's shooting more blanks than the FCA, she'll eventually get pregnant. He will not 'man up' and he is both immature and clearly does not want a serious relationship with her, let alone to settle down into fatherhood. Even if he did, I suspect they're not compatible in the long term and any relationship attempt would likely not last to the birth.

Sooner or later though, the truth will likely come out though, including the fact that you knew about this. So any friendship you have with him, and his other friends, will end. Her own friendship with you will cool, as my understanding is that you're more his friend than hers and anyway, you'd be a liability given what you know and thus better kept away.

You tell him. She'll most likely find out and so any friendship you have with her, and her other friends, will end.

This may well also spell the end of his arrangement (it's not a relationship) with her. Alternatively, a combination of stupidity and horniness will cause him to believe whatever story she spins, which in turn will mean he'll continue his arrangement with her and any friendship you have with him, and his other friends, will temporarily end.

I say temporarily because once back with her we end up in the former scenario again, except that when she does get pregnant he'll belatedly realize that you were trying to warn him all along.

That's what will likely happen in practical terms, whether you choose one path or another is up to you.

All I would say is to do what you think he would want you to do. I cannot answer what that may be, but I do know that were I in his shoes, I'd want to be warned (and so would many others who have posted here) and I would never forgive you if I discovered you could have, but didn't.

Sometimes the stakes are too high to stay silent.

seenitall

Hi OP,

in your particular situation, as has been suggested, I'd tell your brother what's been said, and deal with your conscience that way. I wouldn't be crying into my porridge if the brother spilled the beans to his friend then, obviously. And I don't think you are responsible if yer man doesn't take the warning seriously or whatever. I think it's a better type of situation for this info to come from your brother than from you.

Sorry you got caught up in the mess, and I understand that it would be bothering you. Deal with it as sensitively as you can, but if I were you I don't think I'd be having friendships with any of these people.

LegacyUser

This woman is 34 and sees her boyfriends family have a bit of money.
You know at the moment she is not in a financial position to have a baby by other ways so if this is the case how will she afford to bring up this baby?
Does she know the cost of a cot, parm, buggy, nappies, childcare ect?
She may think his parents will fund this but she could be told to get lost by them.

Meanwhile she is going out with a 25 year old man who treats her badly and has told her he does not want a serious relationship. She may think once she is pregnant that he will change. She is just going to make a total mess of a child life if she gets pregnant.

I would ring him and ask him to meet you. I would then say to him I have some information about (her) but I don't want you to mention my name in regards to this.
Tell him you were with her recently and she told you that she wants a baby and is not taking the pill. I would let him know if she misses one pill there is a chance she could get pregnant as he may not be aware of this. I would tell him to end things with her and stay away from her once his does this.
From what you have told us she sounds very unstable and immature despite her age.
A baby deserves to have 2 parents that want them. Even in the strongest relationship a wanted baby can bring stress as parents may not have much experience of babies, have a baby that cry's non stop, finds it hard to feed or could have health problems.

tinkerbell

Holy crap, this situation is just crazy. OP, your friend is an evil cow by doing this. I would go straight to him and tell him - he is your brother's best friend, after all. Then I would drop her as a friend. She has absolutely no morals whatsoever - what she is doing is disgusting.

Big Bag of Chips

If it was me, I'd want to know.

seosamh1980

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

If it was me, I'd want to know.

Can you imagine if she gets pregnant, this poor guy has a kid that ties him to her forever, and he finds out afterwards that her plan was known to some, and they didn't warn him? I'd want to know, and I think I'd have to warn him, it's up to him then to do what he wants with that information.

Defiler Of The Coffin

This is a car-crash waiting to happen.

You have to tell him OP.

PucaMama

tell him for the sake of the possible child. then they both can go and get help, her for her own obvious issues and him for his immaturity. if i was a man id be embarrassed to be called a "manchild". hes 25, not 15. time to grow up.

Carriexx

The Corinthian wrote: »

Like how they didn't get round to having children before they were 34?

Why is there something wrong with that??? Everybody's life pans out differently unfortunately.

Ickle Magoo

Could posters please ensure they read threads and are aware of any moderator warnings contained within.

Please keep replies on topic and helpful to the OP and be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If anyone hasn’t done so already, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.

As the OP has now had six pages of advice and it's pretty much unanimous, I'll lock this thread.

All the best OP.