Letters from social welfare encouraging emmigration

hotbabe1992

Have you seen the letter or not?For someone who stated earlier on that you hadn't,you are giving a fierce critical analysis of it.
From your posts you continually mention Australia and Canada as the places to "f*ck off" to,why? There are lot's of other countries out there with jobs to be filled.

You also mention on more than one occasion a dislike of FAS,I wouldn't be where I am today without them so I'm going to defend them .

I agree with you on your sentiments towards Job Bridge though.

To the wider discussion on the letter,it seems to be a letter giving choices. If it get's 20 people off their holes to go look harder for a job then I applaud its intent.

I havent gotten the letter but that should not make my opinion/view worth less than yours....Have YOU gotten the letter?


I know one person who got a letter stating there was a job in canada for him,he had no qualifications and had been on the dole 10+ years..

Very stupid to be sending out letters to people like that too i thought to myself,and even to people who have skills but cannot afford to up and move,some now have families with kids and others have other commitments etc..

To just up and leave with no money?How is that feasable?

And yes i do have a dislike of both fas and job bridge i cannot really see huge differnces between the two both are as unscruplous as each other at undercutting and undermining the jobs market,and increasing unemployment..

I have worked in both fas and job bridge at one point and i can say the exploitation is beyond words it is so bad..

Slave driving managers and no repsect for workers is what i saw there,i complained to the manager of FAS and the company involved when i noticed that paid workers jobs were being replaced while more FAS workers were being taken on..

On job bridge pretty much the same thing,they have also a habit like fas of rehiring freebie workers as opposed to employing people,paying them and getting them off the live registrar so excuse my bias against fas/job bridge..


If it gets 20 people off the dole fair enough but i dont think the government are doing their job and thats the wider issue here..

You got to look at the bigger picture not the small letters..

First Up

clairefontaine wrote: »

I hope the descendants of every emigrant in this current wave, learn and recollect the savage indifference Ireland shows to its citizens and diaspora, ad remembers how it is tearing families and generations apart the next time Ireland looks to shake down its diaspora for money. Ireland had one shot an generational continuity and blew it. And now instead of promotions growth, they are promoting citizens to leave their own country just to get their numbers down.

Department of Social Protection? Is that what they call themselves?

Would you like to elaborate on what you mean by "Ireland"? At who or what exactly do you direct your criticism?

D1stant

Deleted User wrote: »

I would hope my skin will get thicker rather than thinner and that I wouldn't be inconsolable because I was informed there are jobs abroad.

You have a lot to learn kid. And you won't learn it in college. This discussion is over

View

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I have a degree and i have been looking for jobs in ireland(im part time employed),and i want a job in ireland,is that unreasonable to you?

Yes. Insisting a job can only be in Ireland is a life-style choice not an employment one.

The obligation on the unemployed is to be actively seeking work not actively seeking work solely in Ireland.

If you are in receipt of unemployment benefit here and an employer in Austria - which has the lowest unemployment rate in the EU - offers you a good job and you refuse it, why should the tax-payer here (continue to) pay you unemployment benefit when you are refusing an offer of employment? You aren't unemployed in that case merely unwilling to take up employment.

clairefontaine

View wrote: »

Yes. Insisting a job can only be in Ireland is a life-style choice not an employment one.

The obligation on the unemployed is to be actively seeking work not actively seeking work solely in Ireland.

If you are in receipt of unemployment benefit here and an employer in Austria - which has the lowest unemployment rate in the EU - offers you a good job and you refuse it, why should the tax-payer here (continue to) pay you unemployment benefit when you are refusing an offer of employment? You aren't unemployed in that case merely unwilling to take up employment.

If an American president or French President, or any office of any government said to its population, go an emigrate if you cant find a job here... I cannot imagine the uproar there would be.

It is the utter height off arrogance.

Why dont you emmigrate Ms. Burton?

The Nutty M

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I havent gotten the letter but that should not make my opinion/view worth less than yours....Have YOU gotten the letter?


I know one person who got a letter stating there was a job in canada for him,he had no qualifications and had been on the dole 10+ years..

Very stupid to be sending out letters to people like that too i thought to myself,and even to people who have skills but cannot afford to up and move,some now have families with kids and others have other commitments etc..

To just up and leave with no money?How is that feasable?

And yes i do have a dislike of both fas and job bridge i cannot really see huge differnces between the two both are as unscruplous as each other at undercutting and undermining the jobs market,and increasing unemployment..

I have worked in both fas and job bridge at one point and i can say the exploitation is beyond words it is so bad..

Slave driving managers and no repsect for workers is what i saw there,i complained to the manager of FAS and the company involved when i noticed that paid workers jobs were being replaced while more FAS workers were being taken on..

On job bridge pretty much the same thing,they have also a habit like fas of rehiring freebie workers as opposed to employing people,paying them and getting them off the live registrar so excuse my bias against fas/job bridge..


If it gets 20 people off the dole fair enough but i dont think the government are doing their job and thats the wider issue here..

You got to look at the bigger picture not the small letters..

Sorry I didn't mean to undermine your opinion at all on the subject,I too have not seen the letter nor have gotten it.

Of course it's feasible to work in another country without this huge money pot you seem to think it requires,countries not the other side of the world but as stated before,in the EEA. Many many people like myself work away in these countries and come home without spending a fortune. FAS provided me with the training to get the opportunities to get there so I we'll agree to disagree on the FAS bashing.:D

The bigger picture is being examined,not all solutions are going to fit everybody,but some might.

D1stant

D1stant wrote: »

You have a lot to learn kid. And you won't learn it in college. This discussion is over

What's that got to do with anything? You asked questions, I answered them and now you're condescending about things that have nothing to do with what was being discussed. Hell, even your "points" were hypothetical since it's younger people the letters are targeted at, many who may have just finished college?
And where will I learn whatever you're talking about? Apparently I won't learn it from 20 years in the workforce either.

clairefontaine

clairefontaine wrote: »

Why dont you emmigrate Ms. Burton?

What?

First Up

clairefontaine wrote: »

If an American president or French President, or any office of any government said to its population, go an emigrate if you cant find a job here... I cannot imagine the uproar there would be.

It is the utter height off arrogance.

Why dont you emmigrate Ms. Burton?

So do you see all the responsibility being with the government, or might the individual have some obligation to make themselves employable?
And if no employer wants to employ them, is that always government's fault?

hotbabe1992

And if no employer wants to employ them, is that always government's fault?

Thats fair enough if no employer wants to employ them i think the point is that the government should facilitate the situation whereby employers will look to employing people and setting up shop in ireland.

That option should be there and we should have more going on in the jobs market in ireland.

FAS provided me with the training to get the opportunities to get there so I we'll agree to disagree on the FAS bashing.

was this a fas nasa trip by any chance,we know all about that one and mary harneys 200 euro haircut in florida..

efb

Anyone 10 years on the dole should be cut off. We are not 10 years into this recession

hotbabe1992

I totally agree,that they should be looked at but its people like me who pick up work and are on the dole that are more likely to be looked at then people on the dole long term i know two guys like that who are never get interviewed maybe once every 4 years or something like that..
But i suppose if they dont have the training/qualifications/support and you cut them off what then?

hotbabe1992

Yes. Insisting a job can only be in Ireland is a life-style choice not an employment one.

The obligation on the unemployed is to be actively seeking work not actively seeking work solely in Ireland.

If you are in receipt of unemployment benefit here and an employer in Austria - which has the lowest unemployment rate in the EU - offers you a good job and you refuse it, why should the tax-payer here (continue to) pay you unemployment benefit when you are refusing an offer of employment? You aren't unemployed in that case merely unwilling to take up employment.

Lets just say im in reciept of social welfare at the moment and i get lets just say for arguments sake 100 per week to live on..SURVIVE on,for rent,food,bills and someone says to me right there is a job that is perfect for you in austria,pack your bags or im cutting you off...Well guess what will happen i will end up homeless,1.first off i wont be able to afford to move to austria,ie no money saved up too busy surviving on 100 per week trying to make it stretch,and 2. dole cuts me off then im homeless..
Genius idea..Any more greats??:)

chopper6

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

Will they pay them to leave and set themselves up in the UK? Where do I sign up for this payment?

There's clear blue sky between the Uk and here.

Anybody i know who moved over there got jobs and stayed there...same with pretty much everywhere really.

i really dont know why people stay in this kip.

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Thats fair enough if no employer wants to employ them i think the point is that the government should facilitate the situation whereby employers will look to employing people and setting up shop in ireland.

That option should be there and we should have more going on in the jobs market in ireland.



.

I assume you mean in addition to the myriad of things already being done to attract foreign companies as well as encourage Irish start ups, assist companies to expand, assist with finance, research, development, innovation, training, export market intelligence and the like?

If you have any NEW (or even specific) ideas, I'm sure "The Government" would be happy to hear from you.

sarumite

chopper6 wrote: »

i really dont know why people stay in this kip.

Kids in school, family and friends, negative equity meaning you can't up sticks and leave, partner has a good job. There is at least 4 reasons people stay.

murphaph

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I totally agree,that they should be looked at but its people like me who pick up work and are on the dole that are more likely to be looked at then people on the dole long term i know two guys like that who are never get interviewed maybe once every 4 years or something like that..
But i suppose if they dont have the training/qualifications/support and you cut them off what then?

You provide a jobseekers assistance payment (ie your own insurance) for a year that is based on your previous salary (which is also relative to what you paid in in unemployment insurance) and after a year if the person hasn't found work you give them an absolute basic subsistence payment that enables a person to feed themselves in Lidl and NO MORE and provide rent assistance in a modest flat.

If they don't find work after a further year or two then they should be required to perform civil duties like litter picking to receive that basic payment. If they refuse, they should receive nothing.

Impossible? No. It's the system used in Germany today.

MadYaker

clairefontaine wrote: »

Yep. When you look at how it rips apart families. Yes, savage, amoral and evil for the government to encourage people to emmigrate.

Jaysus. This is all a bit sensationalist isn't it? Its just a letter, people can ignore it. It's not like the government are rounding up unemployed people and shipping them off.

efb

How do families of emigrants cope? My sister lives and works in the UK, my brother in Oz, where should I apply for compo?

If you have no dependencies in Ireland I see no reason to migrate for a while instead of languishing on the dole

First Up

efb wrote: »

How do families of emigrants cope? My sister lives and works in the UK, my brother in Oz, where should I apply for compo?

If you have no dependencies in Ireland I see no reason to migrate for a while instead of languishing on the dole

Compo for what?

hotbabe1992

I assume you mean in addition to the myriad of things already being done to attract foreign companies as well as encourage Irish start ups, assist companies to expand, assist with finance, research, development, innovation, training, export market intelligence and the like?

If you have any NEW (or even specific) ideas, I'm sure "The Government" would be happy to hear from you.

So you are happy with the current jobs market,you think its perfect right???:)
Tell me then why are so many people leaving ireland - bc there is no job creation.
40 jobs in google is no good to someone with no IT background,im talking about innovations that will at least halve the unemployment figures (which at the moment are false,they are actually higher than what is recorded today,because of fas and job bridge fiddling the stats).

And yeah..I do got ideas for one to free up the jobs market get rid of fas and job bridge - as they fiddle with the unemployment statistics while undermining and undercutting the real jobs market actually increasing unemployment its a job blocker.

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

So you are happy with the current jobs market,you think its perfect right???:)
Tell me then why are so many people leaving ireland - bc there is no job creation.
40 jobs in google is no good to someone with no IT background,im talking about innovations that will at least halve the unemployment figures (which at the moment are false,they are actually higher than what is recorded today,because of fas and job bridge fiddling the stats).

And yeah..I do got ideas for one to free up the jobs market get rid of fas and job bridge - as they fiddle with the unemployment statistics while undermining and undercutting the real jobs market actually increasing unemployment its a job blocker.

So whose job is it to "create" a job for you?

murphaph

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

So you are happy with the current jobs market,you think its perfect right???:)
Tell me then why are so many people leaving ireland - bc there is no job creation.
40 jobs in google is no good to someone with no IT background,im talking about innovations that will at least halve the unemployment figures (which at the moment are false,they are actually higher than what is recorded today,because of fas and job bridge fiddling the stats).

And yeah..I do got ideas for one to free up the jobs market get rid of fas and job bridge - as they fiddle with the unemployment statistics while undermining and undercutting the real jobs market actually increasing unemployment its a job blocker.

My cohort of school leavers opted in to great numbers to take up work in building and allied trades for the quick money, rather than study something at university. Those people made that decision and we can't magic up jobs for them.

We can offer retraining and that is happening but to be honest most employers in these IT want a degree that these guys decided to skip on. That was their call.

Manach

I came across a reference awhile back to the Gov. plan for solving the employment issue from the 1923 state - encourage emigration of the poor. Plus ça change, ...

First Up

murphaph wrote: »

My cohort of school leavers opted in to great numbers to take up work in building and allied trades for the quick money, rather than study something at university. Those people made that decision and we can't magic up jobs for them.

We can offer retraining and that is happening but to be honest most employers in these IT want a degree that these guys decided to skip on. That was their call.

Whether people like it or not, the labour market in Ireland is becoming ever more skills and knowledge intensive. If we hadn't had a construction bubble and a debt fueled consumer boom, that trend would have been even stronger and more clearly seen.
People can blame whoever they want but the ultimate reason people don't have a job is because nobody wants to employ them. The person with the greatest responsibility to do something about it in that situation is themself. If that means emigration, good luck to those with the energy and ambition to do it.
Sitting here whinging isn't getting anything done.

hotbabe1992

Fair enough if people want to emigrate im all for it.

Okay so its up to people to train themselves right?What credible degree training can you give yourself on 188 jobseekers a week?Tell me?

Fas and job bridge dont do it,they have no degree courses on offer,what they have is out of date cert courses though..
They are expecting people to pull s**t out of their arse and come up with a degree out of thin air while surviving on the dole,its just not possible for a lot of people.
The government is responsible for providing the right climate for the jobs market,facilitating a credible jobs market for everyone,which is not what they are doing,20 jobs here and 40 jobs there in google just doesnt cut it..

Not everyone is IT orientated and they should know this.

There is no plan coming out of college they dont tell you the courses to go for that have plenty of jobs on offer,its just dive in head first find out later..

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Fair enough if people want to emigrate im all for it.

Okay so its up to people to train themselves right?What credible degree training can you give yourself on 188 jobseekers a week?Tell me?

Fas and job bridge dont do it,they have no degree courses on offer,what they have is out of date cert courses though..
They are expecting people to pull s**t out of their arse and come up with a degree out of thin air while surviving on the dole,its just not possible for a lot of people.
The government is responsible for providing the right climate for the jobs market,facilitating a credible jobs market for everyone,which is not what they are doing,20 jobs here and 40 jobs there in google just doesnt cut it..

Not everyone is IT orientated and they should know this.

There is no plan coming out of college they dont tell you the courses to go for that have plenty of jobs on offer,its just dive in head first find out later..

Not all jobs are in IT. We have a strong and diverse manufacturing sector and an even stronger services sector - the envy of many countries. There are also plenty of vocational training opportunities below degree level.
Blaming others for "not telling you" what to study or do is a bit of a cop out.
Most Irish emigrants do very well, coming from exactly the same education system. The reason is that they have the "can do" attitude and flexibility that appeals to employers. It might be inconvenient for you to hear that these are also the qualities in the Irish workforce that persuades many foreign companies to set up here.
Stop blaming "the government" and "the system" for all your problems.

hotbabe1992

So you think irish emigrating for jobs is a success story then?
Come off it..

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

So you think irish emigrating for jobs is a success story then?
Come off it..

I never said anything of the sort but seeing as you ask;
Having to emigrate is a pity but it is neither unique to Ireland nor to the present day.
For many who take that option, it is a success of sorts and certainly a better outcome than sitting at home complaining.

hotbabe1992

Having to emigrate is a pity but it is neither unique to Ireland nor to the present day.

They say prostitution is the oldest profession in the world but it doesnt make it okay,its simply not acceptable that irish people are emigrating for jobs that should be here..

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

They say prostitution is the oldest profession in the world but it doesnt make it okay,its simply not acceptable that irish people are emigrating for jobs that should be here..

So who should provide them?

What is wrong with pointing out jobs available elsewhere? There is nothing wrong with working abroad, for however long one wants to. There are opportunities to be availed of. It is much better to broadens ones mind (and horizons) than sit at home blaming everyone else for not being able to find a job. The (supposed) letters (supposedly) say that they are just for information only and need not be acted on.

No Pants

I take it there's still no sign of the letter or any details on the "encouragement"?

experiMental

Part of a problem stems all the way from primary schools. Schools don't really teach people how the world works and how to apply personal innate skills and talents to it enough. Instead, they teach a curriculum and expect students to perform to its requirements. It's a problem in all of Europe, not just Ireland. Look at the European youth unemployment figures as evidence. However, if you look at people who were enrolled in private education, they do much better across statistics. Everyone that I know who went to a private school is successful in Ireland.

Also, it's not feasible to set up some types of businesses in Ireland. So people who are good at some skills may not be able to find opportunities here. Everyone is different, and it's extremely difficult to set up some system which enables everyone to have a job and earn money. Actually, from my experience in several countries, it really *is* quite tough to make a living in a small and limited economy such as Ireland.

The unfortunate fact is, that many governments don't work for you. You have to work for them.

RobbingBandit

Probably way off topic with this, a couple of years ago weren't the Spanish government offering several months advancement of their social welfare to migrant recipients to leave. The government could do a similar deal here with any and all Irish citizens or migrants on social welfare to get them of the register.

Cookie_Monster

Manach wrote: »

I came across a reference awhile back to the Gov. plan for solving the employment issue from the 1923 state - encourage emigration of the poor. Plus ça change, ...

better than simply letting all the educated and employable continue to leave of their own accord.

The problem (for the gov) is the people they want to leave are no more employable elsewhere than they are in Ireland.

maninasia

First Up wrote: »

Whether people like it or not, the labour market in Ireland is becoming ever more skills and knowledge intensive. If we hadn't had a construction bubble and a debt fueled consumer boom, that trend would have been even stronger and more clearly seen.
People can blame whoever they want but the ultimate reason people don't have a job is because nobody wants to employ them. The person with the greatest responsibility to do something about it in that situation is themself. If that means emigration, good luck to those with the energy and ambition to do it.
Sitting here whinging isn't getting anything done.

Whining won't get anybody anywhere. So I suggest that people in charge of these schemes who ' support emigration' for our unemployed could job share with these unemployed people instead of asking them to leave the country.

Fair is fair right?

There's something seriously wrong when a state recommends its citizens to emigrate as a solution.

But this is a very convenient solution for the government. Once out of the country they are off the live register. Problem solved.

maninasia

murphaph wrote: »

My cohort of school leavers opted in to great numbers to take up work in building and allied trades for the quick money, rather than study something at university. Those people made that decision and we can't magic up jobs for them.

We can offer retraining and that is happening but to be honest most employers in these IT want a degree that these guys decided to skip on. That was their call.

My cohort of school leavers in 2015 jumped into IT got the quick degree and started making money straight off the bat.

Then in 2020 google invented 'auto pro with more personality TM' and programmers were laid off in mass. Many found their arms had atrophied due to overuse of Google glass so they couldn't even get a job at their local spar.

Those dumb eejits jumping into IT where the money was, couldn't see into the future. Eejits!

Phoebas

maninasia wrote: »

Those dumb eejits jumping into IT where the money was, couldn't see into the future. Eejits!

We'll all have to learn how to lay blocks or plaster walls or something.
Anyone working in IT knows that constant retraining (at your own cost) is part of the package.

Phoebas

Phoebas wrote: »

We'll all have to learn how to lay blocks or plaster walls or something.
Anyone working in IT knows that constant retraining (at your own cost) is part of the package.

The problem with that, Phoebas, is that they want the training paid for by anyone else! I know hairdressers and beauticians who do training courses at least once a year to keep up with new products, techniques, etc. They run successful business' and undertake these courses on their day off.

hotbabe1992

The unfortunate fact is, that many governments don't work for you. You have to work for them.

No i dont accept that,i think it should be a two way street,there are people willing to work and live in ireland,why not give them the chance to get a job there in ireland?

The government should do this because it benefits the country tax gets paid back into the government and in turn services in the community.

Makes sense dont you think instead of spending x amount of euro on letters to say well listen lads pack your bags the writings on the wall..


Not good enough.

theUbiq

ardmacha wrote: »

There were 58,000 more jobs in the last year, hardly an abysmal failure. Which European country did better?

Emigration isn't great, but neither is being unemployed living off everyone else.

Where do you get this nonsense from? these figure are made up... are you some ****ing Fianna gael lackey?

Phoebas

theUbiq wrote: »

Where do you get this nonsense from? these figure are made up... are you some ****ing Fianna gael lackey?

The CSO?

KwackerJack

They need better checks in place to see why a person has not worked in so long.

The long term unemployed need to be looked at first and if a person can work they should be given a choice of jobs that match their skill-set or desire to learn and if they don't chose at least one well there dole gets cut.

To many people on the dole just don't want to work, excuses are 'I can make more on the dole' that may be true in some cases but while working you need to educate yourself in that area and gain a new skill that will get you a promotion, then you will be better off.

Like many workers Id be better off on the dole, after travelling to Dublin every day from Mullingar etc. I come out with less each week but in less that a year I will be earning a lot more and all it takes is a year or so of being sensible with my money.

I've parked up the big motor and use the misses focus to travel to work. Kills me to see my car sitting there but I know it will be worth it in a years time when I can drive something newer and maybe bigger.

People don't see the long term plan, the only see the short term in which they see having feck all money.


Asking people to go overseas is OK but its not a long term solution to the problem.

theUbiq

Phoebas wrote: »

The CSO?

Ha.. Another comedian... this is the CSO that tells us house prices are going up... the CSO thats been massaging employment figures for the troika. The CSO is a propaganda tool used by a dysfunctional and amateurish government to hide its failings. Next you'll be telling us RTE and the Irish independent provide reliable and unbiased news. Fianna Fail lied to us constantly... why would the current bunch be any different? Why would you believe figures on an internet forum provided without any data or references to back them? why would you believe figures produced by an inflexible and incompetent civil service?

Phoebas

theUbiq wrote: »

Ha.. Another comedian... this is the CSO that tells us house prices are going up... the CSO thats been massaging employment figures for the troika. The CSO is a propaganda tool used by a dysfunctional and amateurish government to hide its failings. Next you'll be telling us RTE and the Irish independent provide reliable and unbiased news. Fianna Fail lied to the us constantly... why would the current bunch be any different? Why would you believe figures on an internet forum provided without any data or references to back them? why would you believe figures produced by an inflexible and incompetent civil service?

Ok. Thanks for your input. :rolleyes:

Phoebas

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem with that, Phoebas, is that they want the training paid for by anyone else! I know hairdressers and beauticians who do training courses at least once a year to keep up with new products, techniques, etc. They run successful business' and undertake these courses on their day off.

Who does?

theUbiq

Phoebas wrote: »

Ok. Thanks for your input. :rolleyes:

You're welcome... don't forget now, your government loves you and serves you. Now would you kindly buy a house or **** off!

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

No i dont accept that,i think it should be a two way street,there are people willing to work and live in ireland,why not give them the chance to get a job there in ireland?

The government should do this because it benefits the country tax gets paid back into the government and in turn services in the community.

Makes sense dont you think instead of spending x amount of euro on letters to say well listen lads pack your bags the writings on the wall..


Not good enough.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

hotbabe1992

Explain what i mean by what exactly?Why shouldnt the government give them a chance to get a job here in ireland.

What on earth is wrong with that idea at all? It means tax paid back through PRSI to government..

Surely they must realise the benefits of people working in ireland,and what revenue it might bring in..

Instead of handing out letters saying well you know what lads we give up time to go off out of the country in order to look for work..

Can you not see whats wrong with that picture..?