Letters from social welfare encouraging emmigration

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Explain what i mean by what exactly?Why shouldnt the government give them a chance to get a job here in ireland.

What on earth is wrong with that idea at all? It means tax paid back through PRSI to government..

Surely they must realise the benefits of people working in ireland,and what revenue it might bring in..

Instead of handing out letters saying well you know what lads we give up time to go off out of the country in order to look for work..

Can you not see whats wrong with that picture..?

In what way is the government "not giving them a chance"? Jobs are advertised, people are free to apply; people are chosen or not. That's how it works. I've not seen the letter in question but as I understand it, all it says is that if you are thinking or planning to go abroad for work, here are some things that might help. Does the teaching of French in school mean that the Dept of Education is telling people to go to France?

hotbabe1992

Have you looked at the jobs market recently there are bare pages where job advert pages used to be in my local papers,there are people emigrating still in their droves up to 100,000 each year,some say 87,000 give or take i think that is a lot of people,and says a lot about the jobs situation..

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Have you looked at the jobs market recently there are bare pages where job advert pages used to be in my local papers,there are people emigrating still in their droves up to 100,000 each year,some say 87,000 give or take i think that is a lot of people,and says a lot about the jobs situation..

I have several times asked you who are blaming, or who you think should be providing the jobs. Unless you are advocating that we should become a totalitarian, communist state, do you understand that jobs are provided by companies who wish to employ people? If companies (or not enough of them) don't want to employ more people, what can "government" do beyond the measures already in place to attract foreign companies or encourage Irish companies to grow?

Nobody is denying that we have a surplus of people over available jobs. What I am (still) waiting for from you is some actual suggestions about what more should be done about it.

hotbabe1992

My suggestion would be to cut FAS,solas,Tus,and job bridge in fact all of the ''job'' quangos so we can really free up the jobs market.

Stop massaging figures saying that that actual unemployment has dropped when it clearly hasnt.

The only reason why it has is because of emigration and job bridge and the ton of other job quango schemes there like fas,solas etc..

efb

Employers can't afford to take on people. The government would love to give everyone a job, but that's not feasible possible in the current climate

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

My suggestion would be to cut FAS,solas,Tus,and job bridge in fact all of the ''job'' quangos so we can really free up the jobs market.

Stop massaging figures saying that that actual unemployment has dropped when it clearly hasnt.

The only reason why it has is because of emigration and job bridge and the ton of other job quango schemes there like fas,solas etc..

How would cutting quangos "free up" the jobs market? You can dispute the accuracy of statistics if you like, but I'm still waiting for your ideas as to how more jobs are created.

hotbabe1992

Fas and job bridge actually increase unemployment for example if there is a vacancy available in a company instead of turning around and hiring paid workers,they instead hire fas and job bridge freebie workers,that is in effect acting as a job - blocker.

It sucks what could be a paid job out of the community,thats simply what i do not like about these job schemes..

They are also very wasteful with regard to taking government resources and producing nothing by way of increasing employment in return.

I can understand apprenteship positions like welding etc,i think they are useful but fas ce jobs and job bridge internships are not.

They use people up and spit them out and instead of giving them a job at the end of it they simply hire more freebie workers.


Thats how it blocks up the jobs market,and increases actual unmployment while dishonestly fiddling the statistics..

First Up

efb wrote: »

Employers can't afford to take on people. The government would love to give everyone a job, but that's not feasible possible in the current climate

The government doesn't give jobs to people in the private sector, which is the only place they can come from in any quantity.
Companies can only increase employment if there is increased demand for their products at home or abroad. That has to be the focus.
The unemployed can help themselves by making themselves more employable.
Bleating about quangos or taking offence at letters achieves nothing.

hotbabe1992

I know it wont change my job prospects if i talk about whats wrong with this country,but it could help people to see what is acutally wrong.

Do you think emigration is a good picture - its a damning indictment of where the government went wrong.

They relied soley on a fake property boom and builders and developers to bulk up our economy instead of real workers on the ground..

They are now talking up a property price rise again(i smell inflation) eventhough we are not ready for it and are heading into the lost decade.

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Fas and job bridge actually increase unemployment for example if there is a vacancy available in a company instead of turning around and hiring paid workers,they instead hire fas and job bridge freebie workers,that is in effect acting as a job - blocker.

It sucks what could be a paid job out of the community,thats simply what i do not like about these job schemes..

They are also very wasteful with regard to taking government resources and producing nothing by way of increasing employment in return.

I can understand apprenteship positions like welding etc,i think they are useful but fas ce jobs and job bridge internships are not.

They use people up and spit them out and instead of giving them a job at the end of it they simply hire more freebie workers.


Thats how it blocks up the jobs market,and increases actual unmployment while dishonestly fiddling the statistics..

There are 406,000 on the live register. Jobbridge has a max of 8,500. Even if every one of those was abused as you describe, it affects a max of 2% of the unemployed. Internships can be seen as a source of cheap labour but they can also be seen as a route to valuable experience and I expect the positives will comfortably outweigh the negatives.

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I know it wont change my job prospects if i talk about whats wrong with this country,but it could help people to see what is acutally wrong.

Do you think emigration is a good picture - its a damning indictment of where the government went wrong.

They relied soley on a fake property boom and builders and developers to bulk up our economy instead of real workers on the ground..

They are now talking up a property price rise again(i smell inflation) eventhough we are not ready for it and are heading into the lost decade.

Yes, the previous government relied too heavily on the construction sector but please show me some evidence to support your claim that the present government is "talking up" property prices.
I have seen media analysis of the market, showing some recovery in parts of Dublin, with prices staying flat everywhere else. I have seen nothing about it from any government source that could be interpreted as "talking up"

Phoebas

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

They relied soley on a fake property boom and builders and developers to bulk up our economy instead of real workers on the ground..

When did this Government rely on a property boom?
There was no property boom during the lifetime of the current government.

hotbabe1992

There are 406,000 on the live register. Jobbridge has a max of 8,500. Even if every one of those was abused as you describe, it affects a max of 2% of the unemployed. Internships can be seen as a source of cheap labour but they can also be seen as a route to valuable experience and I expect the positives will comfortably outweigh the negatives.

If you add up TUS,solas,job-bridge,and FAS and the other job quangos you will come up with a different number..

When did this Government rely on a property boom?
There was no property boom during the lifetime of the current government.

No the last government did. But,Fine gael,Fianna Fail,and Labour,all cheeks of the same dirty arse if you ask me.
And where were Fine Gael when all this brown enveloping was going on they oversaw a lot of corruption,but never called it out at the time when it counted,instead they brownosed on like the rest of the political lackeys and towed the line brownosing all the way - Fine gael never really stood up as opposition when it counted.
Where were they to outline the scandals before it was up to the media to break it to us..?
Where were fine gaal when it really mattered.? I know they have a reputation (and i feel its ill earned) like labour of being the clean up political party,i find that is simply untrue,they are being led by the nose by the IMF/TROIKA,and doing what they are being instructed to do.They are not taking their own intiative so i feel that repuation is not deserved.

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

If you add up TUS,solas,job-bridge,and FAS and the other job quangos you will come up with a different number..



No the last government did. But,Fine gael,Fianna Fail,and Labour,all cheeks of the same dirty arse if you ask me.
And where were Fine Gael when all this brown enveloping was going on they oversaw a lot of corruption,but never called it out at the time when it counted,instead they brownosed on like the rest of the political lackeys and towed the line brownosing all the way - Fine gael never really stood up as opposition when it counted.
Where were they to outline the scandals before it was up to the media to break it to us..?
Where were fine gaal when it really mattered.? I know they have a reputation (and i feel its ill earned) like labour of being the clean up political party,i find that is simply untrue,they are being led by the nose by the IMF/TROIKA,and doing what they are being instructed to do.They are not taking their own intiative so i feel that repuation is not deserved.

A different number for what? Sweeping generalisations don't cut it. Are you saying that nothing any of these bodies do is of any use? If so, I disagree.
So it's all Fine Gael's fault is it? Remember how Bertie was returned by an electorate besotted with the good times? Remember how Fine Gael (and others) were shouted down? Obviously not.
As for the evil Troika, do you grasp the fact that we are dependent on them to keep the lights on and much else? If you were lending to a bankrupt and profligate relative, would you not impose a few conditions?

hotbabe1992

As for the evil Troika, do you grasp the fact that we are dependent on them to keep the lights on and much else? If you were lending to a bankrupt and profligate relative, would you not impose a few conditions?

You interpeted what i wrote..wrongly.. I was saying yes fine gael are being led by the nose by troika/imf and they are the ones doing the clean up job not enda..

I never called the imf/troika evil anywhere in my last post..

A different number for what? Sweeping generalisations don't cut it. Are you saying that nothing any of these bodies do is of any use? If so, I disagree.

A different number with the unemployment statistics,these are not sweeping generalisations either,if you add up TUS,jobbridge,FAS,and solas and the other job quangos its a big chunk of the unemployed working on these schemes..

We may agree to disagree on fas/job bridge being of any use. I think it is absolutly wasteful to be spending money on quangos that dont actually help the unemployment situation but worsen it by undermining the jobs market..

First Up

I don't know what is your political allegiance but to deny the government credit for taking us from bankruptcy to credibility is pure begrudgery. They are not being "led by the nose". They inherited a disaster and have made it enormously better. Do you think any government wants to preside over something like this?
As for the quangos, care to specify how big the "chunk" of the 406,000 they are to blame for? If you are making claims like that, you need to back then up.

hotbabe1992

Use your common sense there is about 10,000 give or take a few k,working per quango there are a lot of quangos in ireland,not just fas or job bridge/solas,you should look it up i think theres like 10 of them like fas etc..

According to wikipedia there are: ''Republic of Ireland in 2006 had more than 800 quangos, 482 at national and 350 at local level, with a total of 5,784 individual appointees and a combined annual budget of €13 billion.''

I looked up how many job quangos there are 11 of them..Now im not sure out i would say there is more than 11 out of 800 like this,so i will have to look this up again..So far i got 11.. There is the following:
1.solas.
2. tus.
3 wpp 1 (work placement programme)
4. wpp2
5.community services programme cps
6.revenue job assist
7.job initiative scheme
8. rural social scheme
9.community employment scheme(ce scheme fas)
10. job bridge
11. jobs plus

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Use your common sense there is about 10,000 give or take a few k,working per quango there are a lot of quangos in ireland,not just fas or job bridge/solas,you should look it up i think theres like 10 of them like fas etc..

According to wikipedia there are: ''Republic of Ireland in 2006 had more than 800 quangos, 482 at national and 350 at local level, with a total of 5,784 individual appointees and a combined annual budget of €13 billion.''

I looked up how many job quangos there are 11 of them..Now im not sure out i would say there is more than 11 out of 800 like this,so i will have to look this up again..So far i got 11.. There is the following:
1.solas.
2. tus.
3 wpp 1 (work placement programme)
4. wpp2
5.community services programme cps
6.revenue job assist
7.job initiative scheme
8. rural social scheme
9.community employment scheme(ce scheme fas)
10. job bridge
11. jobs plus

So what are you saying - they employ too many people, don't achieve enough, or they are causing unemployment? (which was your criticism of jobbridge.)
You said earlier that abolishing these bodies would "free up the job market". You have not said anything that even begins to explain how this would be the case.

gallag

Highest birth rate in Europe and a small island, you don't need 4+ kids. Pretty embarrassing that the government's main strategy is just to push their problems onto other government's who are also tackling high unemployment, I suppose they are to busy spending the highest public sector pay in Europe to be bothered lol

chopper6

sarumite wrote: »

Kids in school, family and friends, negative equity meaning you can't up sticks and leave, partner has a good job. There is at least 4 reasons people stay.

Thats four reasons why some people stay.

What about people with none of the above to keep them here?

There's plenty of ex-students sitting around waiting on thier dream job to fall into thier laps and tons of immigrants out of work who have no intention of returning home.

For example,a polish girl i know told me that a good job working 9-5 over there pays about 300 euro per month...the weekly dole payment over here when all the benefits are added n is not far off that figure per week!

hotbabe1992

So what are you saying - they employ too many people, don't achieve enough, or they are causing unemployment? (which was your criticism of jobbridge.)
You said earlier that abolishing these bodies would "free up the job market". You have not said anything that even begins to explain how this would be the case.

I'll give you an example of how these schemes block up the jobs market,undermine work that is already there and fiddle the statistics..

When you apply for a ''job'' there unpaid in fas,jobbridge or whatever scheme you have chosen,you are officially off the live register(this is where they fiddle the stats) but you get your dole paid by fas,or job bridge with the extra 50 for travel expenses etc.

When employers look for someone to fill a vacancy they can choose to make this a viable job with tax back to government by way of paying the employee,or they can decide to go to fas or job bridge and decide to not pay them.

How does this affect the jobs market,well i think this is obvious,if an employer turns what could be a viable tax job into a fas job,it 1. takes what tax could have been paid to government away from teh government. 2. nullifys what could have been a paid job on the market - meaning if he had lets say 10 positions and filled them up with fas people then that would be 10 meaningful jobs taken away from the jobs market.

That is why i do not like these schemes they 1. nullify what could be a paid job,by taking paid jobs away from the jobs market converting paid work into unpaid work.
2.they take what tax could have been paid to government by way of a paid job,away from the government.3.they are a wasteful expense on the whole the job schemes achieve nothing,i have seen fas staff be rehired instead of paid workers being taken on. It gives no monetary benefit to government whatsoever,and yet takes away what jobs could have been available,i would go as far as to say it is a complete disaster.

How this would free up the jobs market? It could make paid jobs available that would not be available with the fas and job bridge schemes dangling in front of the nose of employers..

What employer would turn around and hire you when he/she has got the option of job bridge or fas etc?

Think about it.

sarumite

chopper6 wrote: »

There's plenty of ex-students sitting around waiting on thier dream job to fall into thier laps and tons of immigrants out of work who have no intention of returning home.

How do we know they aren't applying for jobs. It can be a fools errand to emigrate without any job to go to.

For example,a polish girl i know told me that a good job working 9-5 over there pays about 300 euro per month...the weekly dole payment over here when all the benefits are added n is not far off that figure per week!

I would imagine the dole isn't the only thing that is higher in Ireland than in Poland I am sure if I started listing other areas where the Irish government pay higher than the Polish, I would get a whole host of reasons why a direct comparison isn't applicable.

creedp

gallag wrote: »

Highest birth rate in Europe and a small island, you don't need 4+ kids. Pretty embarrassing that the government's main strategy is just to push their problems onto other government's who are also tackling high unemployment, I suppose they are to busy spending the highest public sector pay in Europe to be bothered lol

What are you proposing here .. a one child family rule?

Big Davey

clairefontaine wrote: »

So...this is their solution to unemployment. I'm at a loss for words as to the indifference, possibly evil, amoral, and disgraceful this tactic is. The department of social welfare sent 4000 letters to dole recipients encouraging them to leave Ireland.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/4000-Irish-social-welfare-letters-encourage-young-people-to-emigrate-234730961.html

I have heard about these letters and have lots of friends from different countries but the only ones who got the letters in my group of friends were Irish ?? Is this just a freak coincidence ? Or is the Paddy the easy target in this big mess ?

Godge

No Pants wrote: »

I see a link to one site that contains another link to another site. No sign of the letter?

9 pages of outrage and nobody has a link to the letter or the text of the letter, yet they are using the supposed existence of a letter they have heard about but not seen to propose all sorts of things. Is this a serious forum?

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I'll give you an example of how these schemes block up the jobs market,undermine work that is already there and fiddle the statistics..

When you apply for a ''job'' there unpaid in fas,jobbridge or whatever scheme you have chosen,you are officially off the live register(this is where they fiddle the stats) but you get your dole paid by fas,or job bridge with the extra 50 for travel expenses etc.

When employers look for someone to fill a vacancy they can choose to make this a viable job with tax back to government by way of paying the employee,or they can decide to go to fas or job bridge and decide to not pay them.

How does this affect the jobs market,well i think this is obvious,if an employer turns what could be a viable tax job into a fas job,it 1. takes what tax could have been paid to government away from teh government. 2. nullifys what could have been a paid job on the market - meaning if he had lets say 10 positions and filled them up with fas people then that would be 10 meaningful jobs taken away from the jobs market.

That is why i do not like these schemes they 1. nullify what could be a paid job,by taking paid jobs away from the jobs market converting paid work into unpaid work.
2.they take what tax could have been paid to government by way of a paid job,away from the government.3.they are a wasteful expense on the whole the job schemes achieve nothing,i have seen fas staff be rehired instead of paid workers being taken on. It gives no monetary benefit to government whatsoever,and yet takes away what jobs could have been available,i would go as far as to say it is a complete disaster.

How this would free up the jobs market? It could make paid jobs available that would not be available with the fas and job bridge schemes dangling in front of the nose of employers..

What employer would turn around and hire you when he/she has got the option of job bridge or fas etc?

Think about it.

Internships are a form of on the job training and are used all over the world. Interns are not able to fill the role of qualified, experienced persons; they are taken on by companies in addition to the staff they need to perform the organisations key functions. They work under supervision and benefit from "on the job" training. The beneficiaries of these schemes are the interns, not the employers.

No company would last long if it hired interns to do the job of qualified and experienced staff. Claiming that work experience schemes like jobbridge are blocking employment is a delusion.

hotbabe1992

They work under supervision and benefit from "on the job" training. The beneficiaries of these schemes are the interns, not the employers.

The beneficiaries are not free worker employees,they are exploited for the most part,ive witnessed this first hand,you can look up positions on fas.ie and jobbridge and see exactly what type of positions are now nullified as free work posts.

Ive seen care worker roles been advertised as ce positions in the past,and you can tell me until you are blue in the face this is not happening but it is.

You will notice waitress positions being advertised as job bridge training,and they even look for people with degree level and diploma level in certain situations.

It is clear these people are being exploited for thier skills and work for free.

They are used up and replaced by more fas/job bridge workers. It puts existing jobs at risk and converts what could be a a paid position into an unpaid position.

I understand the other side of it if you are looking to bulk up your cv or add experience in a certain area it can be useful,but i can assure you the employers are getting a lot more out of it than the free work exploited employee.

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

The beneficiaries are not free worker employees,they are exploited for the most part,ive witnessed this first hand,you can look up positions on fas.ie and jobbridge and see exactly what type of positions are now nullified as free work posts.

Ive seen care worker roles been advertised as ce positions in the past,and you can tell me until you are blue in the face this is not happening but it is.

You will notice waitress positions being advertised as job bridge training,and they even look for people with degree level and diploma level in certain situations.

It is clear these people are being exploited for thier skills and work for free.

They are used up and replaced by more fas/job bridge workers. It puts existing jobs at risk and converts what could be a a paid position into an unpaid position.

I understand the other side of it if you are looking to bulk up your cv or add experience in a certain area it can be useful,but i can assure you the employers are getting a lot more out of it than the free work exploited employee.

Nothing wrong with degree level people getting work experience. They are at least as valid for such schemes as anyone else. Nobody is forced to take up such a job; the trainees go into it with their eyes open. As for the employers, some might take on a few additional staff on this basis but nobody can run a business based around trainees, no matter how cheap they are.

maninasia

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I'll give you an example of how these schemes block up the jobs market,undermine work that is already there and fiddle the statistics..

When you apply for a ''job'' there unpaid in fas,jobbridge or whatever scheme you have chosen,you are officially off the live register(this is where they fiddle the stats) but you get your dole paid by fas,or job bridge with the extra 50 for travel expenses etc.

When employers look for someone to fill a vacancy they can choose to make this a viable job with tax back to government by way of paying the employee,or they can decide to go to fas or job bridge and decide to not pay them.

How does this affect the jobs market,well i think this is obvious,if an employer turns what could be a viable tax job into a fas job,it 1. takes what tax could have been paid to government away from teh government. 2. nullifys what could have been a paid job on the market - meaning if he had lets say 10 positions and filled them up with fas people then that would be 10 meaningful jobs taken away from the jobs market.

That is why i do not like these schemes they 1. nullify what could be a paid job,by taking paid jobs away from the jobs market converting paid work into unpaid work.
2.they take what tax could have been paid to government by way of a paid job,away from the government.3.they are a wasteful expense on the whole the job schemes achieve nothing,i have seen fas staff be rehired instead of paid workers being taken on. It gives no monetary benefit to government whatsoever,and yet takes away what jobs could have been available,i would go as far as to say it is a complete disaster.

How this would free up the jobs market? It could make paid jobs available that would not be available with the fas and job bridge schemes dangling in front of the nose of employers..

What employer would turn around and hire you when he/she has got the option of job bridge or fas etc?

Think about it.

We can see exactly why employers will use these schemes, because the government has set up the structure in this way.

The government, and especially the labour party, love tax and spend and putting their hands into your pockets to 'redirect it' as they see fit, no matter if that is efficient or fair.

So you get the above ridiculous situation, of back hand subsidy to employers to hire people (using you the taxpayer's money taking it out of your wage), instead of simply dropping minimum wage and PRSI contributions, and dropping social welfare rates.

The whole thing is a game setup by the government to control money flows through their hands and there's not much an employer can do except go along with it!

What's the minimum wage now? I think it is approx 1,400 euro per month.

So even if you dropped minimum wage 20% it would still be 1,120 euro per month, which is STILL MORE than what interns get on Jobbridge, but the thing is it would be a real job with all the things that go with that.

But NO the government won't keep it simple, they have to mess the whole thing up.

First Up

Of course interns cost less than "regular" staff. The whole point of the scheme is to encourage employers to give training opportunities to people entering the workforce. What employer is going to give a position to an untrained intern if it costs the same or more than someone with the relevant experience and skills?

KindOfIrish

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

Will they pay them to leave and set themselves up in the UK? Where do I sign up for this payment?

Actually, they will pay. If an unemployed person move to another EU country Irish unemployment benefit will be payed in to a bank account for three months. You can find details in your SW office.

skafish

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

If you add up TUS,solas,job-bridge,and FAS and the other job quangos you will come up with a different number..
.

Can you provide a number instead of meaningless rants?

And the text of the relevant letter would be an interesting read

efb

Is hotbabe1992 waiting for a modelling job???

Boskowski

I can't see the problem with it to be honest.

It's like in the boom bubble. Everybody refuses to see the obvious mismatch.

We all want 3 or four children and we all want to give them the best of education.
We churn out thousands of leaving certs every year of which every one wants at least a college degree these days if not two or a masters.
But my question is where is the economy to employ all these qualified people? We don't have it. In fact I don't think we'd have it even if things were hopping.

And you're not owed a job at home by the state either I'm afraid. We decided against systems where that was the case when we 'defeated communism'.
Plus its totally legit as Ireland is part of a wider market.

Really can't see the problem.

Soft Falling Rain

efb wrote: »

Anyone 10 years on the dole should be cut off. We are not 10 years into this recession

So set people adrift regardless of circumstance, gotcha. This may shock you but not everyone on welfare long term are chancers.

Anyway, not surprised by this letter. Burton very much has a "by any means necessary" attitude towards "getting the job done".

efb

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

So set people adrift regardless of circumstance, gotcha. This may shock you but not everyone on welfare long term are chancers.

Anyway, not surprised by this letter. Burton very much has a "by any means necessary" attitude towards "getting the job done".

10 years on the dole- not welfare- takes some doing

Soft Falling Rain

efb wrote: »

10 years on the dole- not welfare- takes some doing

I know who you're referring to. For whatever reason some people have just become unemployable. You can say that they're is plenty of jobs flipping burgers or working in supermarkets but who is going to employ a 62 year old who has spent the last 10 years on the dole over a younger more able bodied person?

323

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Actually, they will pay. If an unemployed person move to another EU country Irish unemployment benefit will be payed in to a bank account for three months. You can find details in your SW office.

+1

It was there 20 years ago.
Know a few people took advantage of this system in the early 90's after finishing apprenticeships and college.
Most benefited very well from it, found work that developed into good careers and eventually came back to Ireland and started business' that are still operating.

fliball123

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

The letter basically states we the government have given up,we dont care,we are not going to try our best to attract jobs to ireland in their droves,we dont want to halve unemployment ,instead we will send you out a letter telling you to f@ck off to australia or canada..

Its just not good enough..


I understand if you have nothing to lose and have qualifications and money to go out there and all..


But what the government are saying is they basically fundamentally do not care about their people they are not looking out for them.


Its just not okay.

I havent seen these letters but were we not just voted the best country in the world to do business. The government (and I hate actually standing up for those high paid fecks) are actually attracting jobs and sustainable ones in areas such IT, they have also now started recruiting for gardai again..I dont understand what the kerfuffle is about. As I understand it the letter is pointing out about oppertunities abroad thats all ..No one is saying take the next plain to Canada or your dole will be stopped..

FFS there are seminars and job fairs all the time in the RDS that advertise jobs in other countries and these do be full to capacity every time there is one..

So your argument that they have given up doesn't have legs...

fliball123

theUbiq wrote: »

Ha.. Another comedian... this is the CSO that tells us house prices are going up... the CSO thats been massaging employment figures for the troika. The CSO is a propaganda tool used by a dysfunctional and amateurish government to hide its failings. Next you'll be telling us RTE and the Irish independent provide reliable and unbiased news. Fianna Fail lied to us constantly... why would the current bunch be any different? Why would you believe figures on an internet forum provided without any data or references to back them? why would you believe figures produced by an inflexible and incompetent civil service?

emm house prices are going up in a lot of areas now ?

hotbabe1992

I havent seen these letters but were we not just voted the best country in the world to do business.

We are the best country to be bought off,in terms of buying up property thats what they mean when they say ireland is the best country to do business in..

FFS there are seminars and job fairs all the time in the RDS that advertise jobs in other countries and these do be full to capacity every time there is one..

You dont see the problem in droves of people leaving this island,isnt it very apparent by them showing such large presence at these foreign job fairs?

You dont see the problem with that?30 jobs in google is not going to sort this wider unemployment problem out.

My argument does very much have legs thank you.

emm house prices are going up in a lot of areas now ?

And you think thats a good thing based on what happened the last time,an overeliance on the property market is what got us in this mess in the first place..

The jobs market isnt what it should be and property will be taking central role again - do you see the problems here??

First Up

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

We are the best country to be bought off,in terms of buying up property thats what they mean when they say ireland is the best country to do business in..




You dont see the problem in droves of people leaving this island,isnt it very apparent by them showing such large presence at these foreign job fairs?

You dont see the problem with that?30 jobs in google is not going to sort this wider unemployment problem out.

My argument does very much have legs

And you think thats a good thing based on what happened the last time,an overeliance on the property market is what got us in this mess in the first place..

The jobs market isnt what it should be and property will be taking central role again - do you see the problems here??

No, the legs were kicked out from under your "argument" a while back.
Sad really but if you want to wallow, wallow on.
Byeee

fliball123

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

We are the best country to be bought off,in terms of buying up property thats what they mean when they say ireland is the best country to do business in..




You dont see the problem in droves of people leaving this island,isnt it very apparent by them showing such large presence at these foreign job fairs?

You dont see the problem with that?30 jobs in google is not going to sort this wider unemployment problem out.

My argument does very much have legs thank you.




And you think thats a good thing based on what happened the last time,an overeliance on the property market is what got us in this mess in the first place..

The jobs market isnt what it should be and property will be taking central role again - do you see the problems here??

No Forbes a private independent body found that we were the best country to do business..Nothing what so ever to do with property..If you read the report that is?

What is the problem with people leaving to find work..The Irish are notorious for emigrating down through the generations..Why should this one be any different. The expression my uncle (who lives in Oz) was you go where the work is. On the flip side do you not see the 20billion of social welfare payments being paid yearly by over taxing those who are working as being a problem?

Also a large % of people at the fairs are people already working but see no value in working as they are bent over a barrell and literally raped in taxes both directly and indirectly.

If I am not mistaken I believe the figure of 58k new jobs have been created since 2010 ..I seen that figure somewhere..As I pointed out the Gardai are starting to recruit again..Which is a good sign.

What ever about property line your spinning ..this has nothing to do with employment..

You still never tackled my main point..Did the government threaten to stop dole if these people did not take jobs in other countries? the answer is no..They were just pointing out there are opportunities abroad if people had the skillets to fill such jobs as well as no other obligation in this country such as kids...should they not for their own gain go for them...

As an example..Why should the tax payer pay someone 188 a week who has not worked in say 3/4 years and has a job opportunity in Canada that they could fill , but they choose to sit on their bum?

hotbabe1992

As an example..Why should the tax payer pay someone 188 a week who has not worked in say 3/4 years and has a job opportunity in Canada that they could fill , but they choose to sit on their bum?

You are completely missing the point here,if someone lets say is on 100/144/188 a week can you honestly say they have the money the means to travel out there,do you think someone on the dole can rack up a few grand just like that?

You are being a little unrealistic here

srsly78

Some of these foreign places will pay for travel and accommodation, that's how badly they want people.

sarumite

fliball123 wrote: »

As an example..Why should the tax payer pay someone 188 a week who has not worked in say 3/4 years and has a job opportunity in Canada that they could fill , but they choose to sit on their bum?

I would imagine taht most people who make the effort to apply for jobs in Canada are likely going to take them anyway.

fliball123

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

You are completely missing the point here,if someone lets say is on 100/144/188 a week can you honestly say they have the money the means to travel out there,do you think someone on the dole can rack up a few grand just like that?

You are being a little unrealistic here

They could get a loan and pay it back if they had a garenteed job..Not every situation is the same..Some people have partners working, some people have money in the bank..Some people were made redundant and got lump sums...So your completely missing the point..To kick the govenment..(and trust me there are things that they should be kicked about) should not be ashamed or admonished for simply pointing out to people not currently working and who have the mantra there are no jobs here..that there are vacancies in other countries..Is this forcing people to leave..NO ..So who is being unrealistic...

Maura74

Deleted User wrote: »

If it's so awful for a state agency to mention the possibility of emigration then shouldn't that amoral, savage and evil action be just as horrendous when a private company does it?

Where's the expectation to leave? Where did all the people on the dole who've left get the money to leave? Some can afford to leave and some can't. Some are suited to leave and some aren't. Some have family situations which stop them from leaving and some don't.
There's no ramifications for anyone who got the letter and doesn't leave so what's the issue?

I remember in the 60/70's there was a cheap fare to OZ in the UK and lots took up the offer of the £10 fare, however the rules entering countries like OZ and Canada have changed since then. However, wonder if the government got some concession for people to travel would they taken up now in 2013/14.

UK is also rushing through new rules on benefits claims for new countries joining EU in new year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25421086

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7217889.stm

clairefontaine

fliball123 wrote: »

No Forbes a private independent body found that we were the best country to do business..Nothing what so ever to do with property..If you read the report that is?

What is the problem with people leaving to find work..The Irish are notorious for emigrating down through the generations..Why should this one be any different. The expression my uncle (who lives in Oz) was you go where the work is. On the flip side do you not see the 20billion of social welfare payments being paid yearly by over taxing those who are working as being a problem?

Also a large % of people at the fairs are people already working but see no value in working as they are bent over a barrell and literally raped in taxes both directly and indirectly.

If I am not mistaken I believe the figure of 58k new jobs have been created since 2010 ..I seen that figure somewhere..As I pointed out the Gardai are starting to recruit again..Which is a good sign.

What ever about property line your spinning ..this has nothing to do with employment..

You still never tackled my main point..Did the government threaten to stop dole if these people did not take jobs in other countries? the answer is no..They were just pointing out there are opportunities abroad if people had the skillets to fill such jobs as well as no other obligation in this country such as kids...should they not for their own gain go for them...

As an example..Why should the tax payer pay someone 188 a week who has not worked in say 3/4 years and has a job opportunity in Canada that they could fill , but they choose to sit on their bum?

Best country for multi national corporations. We will see how long the EU lets you sustain that tax rate.

clairefontaine

fliball123 wrote: »

No Forbes a private independent body found that we were the best country to do business..Nothing what so ever to do with property..If you read the report that is?

What is the problem with people leaving to find work..The Irish are notorious for emigrating down through the generations..Why should this one be any different. The expression my uncle (who lives in Oz) was you go where the work is. On the flip side do you not see the 20billion of social welfare payments being paid yearly by over taxing those who are working as being a problem?

Also a large % of people at the fairs are people already working but see no value in working as they are bent over a barrell and literally raped in taxes both directly and indirectly.

If I am not mistaken I believe the figure of 58k new jobs have been created since 2010 ..I seen that figure somewhere..As I pointed out the Gardai are starting to recruit again..Which is a good sign.

What ever about property line your spinning ..this has nothing to do with employment..

You still never tackled my main point..Did the government threaten to stop dole if these people did not take jobs in other countries? the answer is no..They were just pointing out there are opportunities abroad if people had the skillets to fill such jobs as well as no other obligation in this country such as kids...should they not for their own gain go for them...

As an example..Why should the tax payer pay someone 188 a week who has not worked in say 3/4 years and has a job opportunity in Canada that they could fill , but they choose to sit on their bum?

Visa applications are expensive and so is moving.

Plus people have families to consider.

Plus, did you know if you are a single custodial parent you can't get a visa anywhere?