advice on dog

Gmaximum

Hi

Looking for some advice please. Myself and the Mrs are moving with our baby shortly to a house where we really should have a dog for security given its remote location.

We both love dogs and have had them as pets before. Our baby will be just over a year old when we move. ideally we would like to allow the dog into the house under supervision. The house has a large garden so dog will have plenty of room outdoors as well.

Any suggestions as to what breed would make a good addition to the family?

cocker5

ok well here's what i think:

Firstly with your baby being very young personally I wouldnt get a dog until your baby is 5 or so.

Puppys will get over excited (all the time) they will "knock your baby over" when they are learning to walk etc, they will play bite (all puppies do this) it can take months for them to learn to not. This can be upseeting to a baby and confusing for parents as they sometimes see this as a puppy being aggressive etc (which its not). Puppies require a massive amount of time and effort and to be honest I not too sure how people manage this along with a baby. Lots of people end up dumpng the puppy / dog outside for 99% of the time and thats no life for the dog - now i am not saying you would do this but its a sad reality for alot of dogs in Ireland today.

Have you thought about the hygenie of it? lots of parents dont like the babies crawling on floors when a dog is around - if you know what i mean.

Dogs are expensive (high quality food, vet bills, pet insurance etc), demand alot of time and effort (for training), alot of breeds want to be around their humans all the time and dont do well outside etc.

I am sorry if its not what you want to hear but these are all considerations when getting a dog.

With regard to getting a dog for security, to be honest nowadays this doesnt deter people.. they will just rob the dog as well..

IMO i would suggest making sure you have adecent alarm system and floods lights and when ypur child is old enough to be able to interact safely with a dog and vise versa then get a dog...

Also when you say youve had dogs before? as in when you were living in your familys home or as an adult?
Reason i ask is Ive grown up with dogs my whole life, 8 years ago we got our own cocker, and although i have always had dog my parents were their keepers really, until i got my own i had no real clue of the responsibility etc.... and it was a shock to be honest.

a dog is a 15 year plus committment - with babies / kids this makes things hard, IMO i wouldnt get a dog until kids are 5 years old etc....

Just my opinion, good luck with your decision.

meoklmrk91

Considering your babies age I wouldn't even consider getting a puppy, yes people do do it, but it is expecrionally hard work to do properly, house training, socialisation, obedience training and will you will have accidents with an excitable puppy jumping, nipping, running around with abandon. It is a lot to take on when you don't have a baby.

Maybe it might be a good idea to consider an older dog from rescue, I know a lot of people would worry about a dog from rescue around kids as you don't know their backround but many rescues do evaluations on their dogs and they know what kind of homes their dogs would be suited to. Just something to consider.

Gmaximum

Thanks for the replies folks

While we haven't had dogs as an adult we've both grown up with them from an early age and appreciate the effort and cost that goes into them. We have thought hard about and believe we can manage

Its also more for a sense of security rather than having a "guard dog". A dog that will make a bit of noise is always good.

We are considering a rescue dog as well

cocker5

Gmaximum wrote: »

Thanks for the replies folks

While we haven't had dogs as an adult we've both grown up with them from an early age and appreciate the effort and cost that goes into them. We have thought hard about and believe we can manage

Its also more for a sense of security rather than having a "guard dog". A dog that will make a bit of noise is always good.

We are considering a rescue dog as well

OP, glad to hear you've put alot of thought into it, as lots of people dont...

As i said I had dogs my whole life growing up and "thought" i was fully aware of the responsibilty of owning a dog all to myself and when it came down to it, i had only a ounce of an idea - but maybe thats just me.

I def wouldnt get a puppy, IMO puppys and babies dont usually do well together, its too much stress on everybody etc. A puppy when you baby is 5 or over would be alot eariser and a smoother transition..

Personally if you are dead set on getting a dog I would go with an adult dog..

you havent said what size dog you are thinking of?
Small? Medium?

As all of these things effect your breed choice.

Where would the dog be sleeping? inside or outside? reason i ask is if outside lots of shelters wont adopt out to a home where a dogs living outside and lots of brreds dont do well outside...

exercise, how much will the dog be getting? not just in the back garden but general exercise? this all differs per breed.

have you any breeds in mind yourself?

mutley dastardly

You've got lots of really great advice here Gmaximum. I would listen to the advice about not getting a puppy with such a young baby in the house. Also please do consider a rescue dog!

If you really just want some suggestions about breeds you may want to make part of your family (personality, temperament etc) take a look here http://www.iams.com/dog-breed-selector - it's not exactly the most romantic way to select your dog, but it's not a bad place to start either.

ShaShaBear

Definitely worth mentioning that the size of your garden means diddly squat in relation to a dog. He or she will never, ever, ever get enough exercise pacing a garden - twice daily walks, at least 20 minutes long EACH will be needed for almost all healthy dog breeds.

An adult rescue dog is a great idea (as puppies and toddlers do not mix well unless you constantly keep them apart, and people tend to think that this isn't necessary with a pup). You will probably want to look into crate training, as you should never leave a baby and dog unattended together. Babies are loud, squawky, screamy and terrible slappers/pullers when it comes to dogs. In fact, I would say there are way more baby attacks on poor dogs than there are dog attacks on poor babies! You will need to offer ANY dog coming into your home a safe place to rest and find peace from your baby, especially as they are likely crawling or even starting to walk now. An extra baby gate for rooms so the new dog can see what is going on in a room but not enter and exit willy-nilly also helps if you needed to, say, run to the loo while baby is in a playpen or travel cot.

Finally, where will the dog sleep? Outside isn't really recommended in this weather, or at all by some people. Most rescues will not give you a dog if it will be forced to sleep outside alone, especially as many of them will be used to having an indoor space in the shelter, or have come from a foster home where they were kept indoors.

I believe all children should have a family pet growing up (if parents like them) as it teaches them a level of respect, love and appreciation of animals that they will never learn otherwise. I've rarely come across anyone who never had a family pet that didn't develop distaste for dogs or cats (not being able to outweigh the hair loss, doggie smell and slobbery windows with the unconditional love, loyalty and laughter), or even minute fear or mistrust, which almost always gets transferred to their children.
If you absolutely want a dog, security should never be the first reason. Not all dogs, even within a breed that usually displays protective characteristics, will naturally protect the way you want. If it is simply noise you are after, any dog comfortable in their surroundings will probably learn to bark when they hear something unusual. But if you plan to put the dog outside, expect that ability to become distorted by constant response to other barking dogs, people in neighbouring gardens that sound closer to the dog than they are and the ever-expected presence of wandering cats, who love to perch on high fencing just because they can :o

Knine

I would actually never bring an adult rescue dog into a house with a young child. The OPs child is less then a year. Such is the nature of many rescue dogs you will not have its full history.

I have young children. I never ever have had any issues with puppies & children as long as they were supervised. One of my children has a severe disability & very challenging behaviour. The puppies grow up here with the children & they are taught using rewards not to knock over the kids. Any puppies I breed leave here bombproof.

ShaShaBear

Knine wrote: »

I would actually never bring an adult rescue dog into a house with a young child. The OPs child is less then a year. Such is the nature of many rescue dogs you will not have its full history.

I have young children. I never ever have had any issues with puppies & children as long as they were supervised. One of my children has a severe disability & very challenging behaviour. The puppies grow up here with the children & they are taught using rewards not to knock over the kids. Any puppies I breed leave here bombproof.

Some rescue dogs have been in foster with children for months, even years. A good rescue will never let you adopt a dog if you have young children if they are even the slightest bit unsure about their dealings with children.
As I said, it is not always the puppy/dog that needs the training - usually the kid is the one you need to watch! Plenty of puppies might think a tap on the head or a pull of the ear is permission to play, and one nip could lead to a puppy with no home before you know it.

Gmaximum

Thanks again folks

Dog will be walked daily and we'd be happy for him to sleep indoors. We also have a stable adjacent to the house with no horses. Medium sized dog would suit best I think

ShaShaBear

Gmaximum wrote: »

Thanks again folks

Dog will be walked daily and we'd be happy for him to sleep indoors. We also have a stable adjacent to the house with no horses. Medium sized dog would suit best I think

Is there an enclosed area? It's never a good idea to let a dog roam free outside!

foreverme99

With such a young child it should definetly be a puppy that you bring into the home. With an older dog you can never tell what way he was reared and if he suffered abuse or neglect.also A rescue dog would be out of the question around a young child

ShaShaBear

foreverme99 wrote: »

With such a young child it should definetly be a puppy that you bring into the home. With an older dog you can never tell what way he was reared and if he suffered abuse or neglect.also A rescue dog would be out of the question around a young child

Of course you can. That's why most reputable rescues have their dogs placed in foster homes - so that they can tell how they are in a comfortable home setting. There is absolutely no reason not to get a rescue dog. A puppy could have been treated equally badly, and you are guaranteed a puppy will bite.

Gmaximum

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Is there an enclosed area? It's never a good idea to let a dog roam free outside!

Yes its enclosed

ShaShaBear

Gmaximum wrote: »

Yes its enclosed

Sounds perfect if it's enclosed and big enough for a stable! If you let us know what area you are in, we can PM some rescues with available doggies? Even just to get you started on breeds or sizes you might like? Of course, buying a puppy is an option if you want to go that route, but you'll have your work cut out for you toilet training a puppy and getting up through the night to let it out. Of course, again, you can rescue puppies!

Knine

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Some rescue dogs have been in foster with children for months, even years. A good rescue will never let you adopt a dog if you have young children if they are even the slightest bit unsure about their dealings with children.
As I said, it is not always the puppy/dog that needs the training - usually the kid is the one you need to watch! Plenty of puppies might think a tap on the head or a pull of the ear is permission to play, and one nip could lead to a puppy with no home before you know it.

And many rescues will not let adult dogs into homes with young children. Few dogs end up in foster for years & a couple of mths is not sufficent to see a dogs true personality. There was a very sad tragedy recently in the news involving an adult rescue & a young child.

How much experience have you with puppies & children?

ShaShaBear

Knine wrote: »

And many rescues will not let adult dogs into homes with young children. Few dogs end up in foster for years & a couple of mths is not sufficent to see a dogs true personality. There was a very sad tragedy recently in the news involving an adult rescue & a young child.

How much experience have you with puppies & children?

Me? Plenty. In fact, my brother was on the receiving end of a very traumatic accident with a puppy who was extremely well-socialised with children, through nothing but his own fault and my mother's stupidity in leaving them unattended. Like I said, children are more often to blame for such issues than the dogs themselves - puppies or not. In my brother's case, the bite was completely and utterly innocent, but it cost him his bottom lip. My brother and mother learned a valuable lesson, and unfortunately the puppy, despite my consistent objections and further hatred toward my mother that lasted for months, suffered as a result.

Knine

Do you actually have your own children though? There is a hell of a difference between a puppy nipping & an adult bite.

There are lots & lots of unreputable rescues & advising people who may not realise this to go out and get an adult rescue dog when they have a small toddler could be a recipe for disaster.

I have had lots & lots of puppies here including litters. I have never ever had even one incident.

foreverme99

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Me? Plenty. In fact, my brother was on the receiving end of a very traumatic accident with a puppy who was extremely well-socialised with children, through nothing but his own fault and my mother's stupidity in leaving them unattended. Like I said, children are more often to blame for such issues than the dogs themselves - puppies or not. In my brother's case, the bite was completely and utterly innocent, but it cost him his bottom lip. My brother and mother learned a valuable lesson, and unfortunately the puppy, despite my consistent objections and further hatred toward my mother that lasted for months, suffered as a result.

Problem here was the puppy owner and not the puppy itself. The poor pup suffered because the owner was not looking after him or supervising him. Shame

ShaShaBear

foreverme99 wrote: »

Problem here was the puppy owner and not the puppy itself. The poor pup suffered because the owner was not looking after him or supervising him. Shame

I'm assuming, for the third time now, that you have not been reading my posts. I have already said on numerous occasions that children are the problem in a puppy scenario, not the puppy.

Knine

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I'm assuming, for the third time now, that you have not been reading my posts. I have already said on numerous occasions that children are the problem in a puppy scenario, not the puppy.

Not in my house though because they are all supervised & well trained. The puppies have been a very positive influence on my children. My dogs are also a very lively terrier breed & a very large gundog. There can be 3/4 puppies also visiting regularly - several times a mth.

Children also need to be taught how to behave. There is no reason the OP can't rescue a puppy.

foreverme99

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I'm assuming, for the third time now, that you have not been reading my posts. I have already said on numerous occasions that children are the problem in a puppy scenario, not the puppy.

Hmmm third time?? Nope..
It's a bit hard to keep up with your post as it seems you back peddle a wee bit in what your saying.
Starting with the long speel you posted and suggesting that an adult dog be brought into the home with an infant rather than a pup. I don't think I need to say much more....

ShaShaBear

Knine wrote: »

Not in my house though because they are all supervised & well trained. The puppies have been a very positive influence on my children. My dogs are also a very lively terrier breed & a very large gundog. There can be 3/4 puppies also visiting regularly - several times a mth.

Children also need to be taught how to behave. There is no reason the OP can't rescue a puppy.

Again, if you read, I did suggest that as well. I am not saying a puppy is a no, I am saying that the choice that the OP makes needs to be utterly thought out and they need to be prepared for any possibility. No dog, regardless of age or breed or temperament or promises from a breeder, should be left unsupervised with a child, because, as you yourself said, children need training too. Unless the OP is buying a puppy off you, your word can not be considered spoken law for all puppies on the planet. Some will nip, some will scratch accidentally, some will poop on the floor and the child will have it in their hands before you can say the S word!

ShaShaBear

foreverme99 wrote: »

Hmmm third time?? Nope..
It's a bit hard to keep up with your post as it seems you back peddle a wee bit in what your saying.
Starting with the long speel you posted and suggesting that an adult dog be brought into the home with an infant rather than a pup. I don't think I need to say much more....

I'm sorry, am I not entitled to an opinion? I said three times now that CHILDREN are more likely responsible for the actions of a puppy. So I think it is you who are misreading :rolleyes:
However, I am not the one considering a dog with an infant in my house, I am merely giving advice based on my personal experiences, which is all anyone on an online forum can do.

foreverme99

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I'm sorry, am I not entitled to an opinion? I said three times now that CHILDREN are more likely responsible for the actions of a puppy. So I think it is you who are misreading :rolleyes:
However, I am not the one considering a dog with an infant in my house, I am merely giving advice based on my personal experiences, which is all anyone on an online forum can do.

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion

Knine

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Again, if you read, I did suggest that as well. I am not saying a puppy is a no, I am saying that the choice that the OP makes needs to be utterly thought out and they need to be prepared for any possibility. No dog, regardless of age or breed or temperament or promises from a breeder, should be left unsupervised with a child, because, as you yourself said, children need training too. Unless the OP is buying a puppy off you, your word can not be considered spoken law for all puppies on the planet. Some will nip, some will scratch accidentally, some will poop on the floor and the child will have it in their hands before you can say the S word!

And the child might have a little scratch or if you read the news lately if an adult dog is involved it could be far far worse.

My words are through years of experience with both puppies & children, including a child with very challenging behaviour.

ShaShaBear

foreverme99 wrote: »

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion

And my opinion is that an adult dog who has already been toilet trained, is sleeping through the night and is past the stage where they are teething and chewing on everything might be better for the OP's one year old baby than a young puppy, rescued OR bought, that may still be teething, needs to be let out in the dead of night, and needs to be watched constantly for reasons unrelated to the fact that you have a child, and MAY nip and scratch unintentionally.

Never once did I say that was the rule for all puppies, but I am not so naive as to tar all dogs with the same brush. Just like I know not all rescue dogs are going to be disastrous maniacs around children. The OP said they were considering a rescue dog, so I gave advice on that

ShaShaBear

Knine wrote: »

And the child might have a little scratch or if you read the news lately if an adult dog is involved it could be far far worse.

My words are through years of experience with both puppies & children, including a child with very challenging behaviour.

And my words are directed to someone who does not have any experience of juggling a young puppy and a one-year old child, and may not realise what puppyhood normally entails.

It is imperative that someone considering a dog for the first time as a responsible adult see all flipsides of the coin.

foreverme99

It's not tarring all dogs with the same brush, it's putting a young child's safety first.
Now, this is my opinion, it would be far more safer to bring a pup into a home where a young child is present rather than an adult dog or rescue dog reason being, (presuming that parents of the pup have been checked and all papers in order, and the dog breeders have been checked out, kennels and conditions have been checked and so on) the pup gets to know the family and no other, the pup finds his place in the family and is reared with the family, a bond develops and so in..
Bringing an adult dog in, you never know what way it was bred, what conditions it lived in, what abuse it's been through, and so on. A dog only needs to suffer trauma just once to snap one day, it's terrible how dogs can be mis treated but it does happen all the time.
To get an adult dog just because he's already tiolet trained and all that is just pure and utter laziness. If a person has no time to train a pup then the person has no time for the pup and therefore should not have one.

Whispered

Knine wrote: »

And the child might have a little scratch or if you read the news lately if an adult dog is involved it could be far far worse.

My words are through years of experience with both puppies & children, including a child with very challenging behaviour.

How many adult dogs do you think have been rehomed without ever an issue? As you are aware there have been cases where dogs raised by the family have bitten and attacked too. This is how stupid breed specific laws come about - one tragic case makes the news and knee jerk opinions like this come into play.

How long in your opinion before you see the real personality? You said that a few months is not long enough, so would you suggest that if you rescue an adult then find out you're 2 months pregnant you should get rid of the dog, just in case? (obviously joking, but I'm sure you get my point, if the dog has been in foster with a child I would see it as a good indicator of it's ability to live with a child)

I get what you're saying re rescues who are not reputable being a problem, but I'd rather point the OP in the right direction of a rescue who would be considered reliable rather than point blank cross a whole load of dogs off their list based on one tragic news worthy story.

DBB

There's a very important point being glossed over here. A lot of rescue dogs do come with a full history, with provenance, so to speak. Most of the dogs I rehome, I have a very detailed and robust history for, because when I take them from their owners, I ask a set of detailed and revealing questions in order to get the full story. This is not entirely foolproof, but I can say with absolute honesty that has proven to give me a very accurate idea of what each dog is, where each dog is coming from behaviourally.
I have rehomed many an adult dog to homes with small kids. I have a dog here who is a rescue dog, I got her as a young adult, who could be placed into any home, with any number of kids. The dog I had before her was 7.5 when I got her... again, exceptionally reliable with children.
I have to say, I'd be very slow to place a young puppy into the average home where there's a small child: knine, I appreciate that you'd prefer the opposite, but there's nothing average about your wealth of knowledge and experience
To my mind, placing a small puppy into a home with a small child means you now have two small children, one of which has immensely sharp teeth and is not afraid to use them It takes a pretty significant extra effort on the part of the parents to try to control the madness, which proves to be too much for some.
I think it's perfectly acceptable to place a carefully selected adult dog, of known history and who has been road-tested in a foster home where kids live, into a home with little 'uns. Emphasis on the words "carefully selected" now, but there are a hell of a lot of fabuloso dogs out there who could fit in with the OP just right! They just need to get in with the right rescue group