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Zero Tolerance for Dublin City Centre, would it work?

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    #62
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    HomelessMidge wrote: »
    Just to mention I'm from the south inner city and many of my school mates are now finishing college with 4 year degrees. Maybe 70% of them live in and around flats. So not everyone who lives in social housing is a drain on society!
    I didn't say they were.


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    #63
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Thomas D wrote: »
    "anyone who is unemployed/on rent allowance/in social housing is a "scumbag""

    "every proponent of social housing/state assistance etc. is a bleeding heart, middle class liberal/PC "

    Guess which logical fallacy you are guilty of?
    What are you going on about?


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    #64
    HomelessMidge
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭HomelessMidge


    Frank Grimes wrote: »
    I didn't say they were.

    Sorry I'm just adding to your post not saying you said that.


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    #65
    Thomas D
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Thomas D


    Frank Grimes wrote: »
    What are you going on about?

    How can you believe that there are absolutely zero dole recipients using heroin.


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    #66
    hotbabe1992
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭hotbabe1992


    Just because you dont have a degree or live in social housing/sign on the dole,doesnt mean youre a scumbag..What makes you a scumbag is your actions..

    People shouldnt get carried away on here.

    Back to what we were talking about yeah i think zero tolerance is a good idea,prevention is better than cure..

    Time to clean up the streets,im on my way up to dublin again,was there sometime ago,and a junkie tried to get in the luggage department when everybody boarded the bus to steal a bag or two underneath,thankfully he was spotted by the bus driver.

    Long story short this was the same junkie hassling us in the queue shaking a cup for money..


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    #67
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    HomelessMidge wrote: »
    Sorry I'm just adding to your post not saying you said that.
    Apologies, I misread that - agreed.


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    #68
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Thomas D wrote: »
    How can you believe that there are absolutely zero dole recipients using heroin.
    I never said that - you're the one making gross generalisations about unemployed people.


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    #69
    Thomas D
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Thomas D


    Frank Grimes wrote: »
    I never said that - you're the one making gross generalisations about unemployed people.

    Neither did I but its an annoying way to argue isn't it?


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    #70
    languagenerd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,201 ✭✭✭languagenerd


    First off: the people who are causing trouble in town aren't ALL junkies, and not all drug addicts are causing trouble in town. Junkies are only part of the problem. There seems to be a huge underclass of people in Dublin (in Ireland, really) who don't play by society's rules, ignore most laws and take social welfare as paid for by everyone else. One rule for them, another rule for everyone else. I don't know how that can be solved, though. It's clearly deeply-ingrained at this stage: entire families sponging off the state with no concept that this isn't fair. (*I am not talking about EVERYONE on the dole here, just those who choose to be on it and never attempt to find work).

    More Gardai on the street to stop trouble when it starts would be nice. People would be far less likely to attack strangers or snatch phones or whatever if they thought a guard could walk past at any minute and arrest them. I don't necessarily mean a police state, but just a few guards patrolling the main areas of town where most problems occur. My aunt lives in one of the smaller regions of Spain and there, the guardia civil walk around the towns or drive around the rural areas a couple times a day. Very little crime there.

    An effective zero-tolerance policy on public transport would also be a good thing: cause any trouble or break any laws and you're off. Anyone with a free travel pass should lose it if they're caught hassling other people/fighting/shooting up heroin, etc. on public transport (with a proper appeals system in place, obviously).

    Maybe community work for the long-term unemployed? I.e. if you're on the dole for over a certain amount of time, you have to do a certain amount of community work a week in order to keep getting money? That would (a ) give the long-term unemployed something to do and (b ) make living off welfare a less attractive choice to those who see it as a lifestyle.

    All of those cost money to implement though, and I can't see the gov't doing anything when they're already cutting the garda budget left, right and centre.


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    #71
    hotbabe1992
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭hotbabe1992


    A cousin of mine recently got her bag robbed in dublin,she's lived in dublin all her life and would consider herself a proud dub,but she said that its gotten really bad,she wouldnt reccommend dublin as a destination for anyone.

    Also she said of people like me townies/country folk going up for the day to dublin she said the junkies sometimes stop and watch everybody coming off the bus and simply just follow one..

    Scary to think thats whats happening,there seems to be a real problem in the city centre and nobody is tackling it at all.

    The garda freeze didnt help much either,and the fact that some of the gardai end up pushing paper like secretaries doesnt help much to free up the numbers of gards and have them on the street.


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    #72
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Hootanany wrote: »
    Why not get all registered Heroin users to a big facility make them live there and control their intake and seen them off it.
    Solves the problem with them on the streets and cuts the pushers out as well.
    The post displays both an abject lack of understanding of the realities of addiction and treatment, and of the constitutional legal rights of the individual.


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    #73
    JustAddWater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭JustAddWater


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »
    The post displays both an abject lack of understanding of the realities of addiction and treatment, and of the constitutional legal rights of the individual.

    I have a legal right to enjoy my city...


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    #74
    Ole Rodrigo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭Ole Rodrigo


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »
    The post displays both an abject lack of understanding of the realities of addiction and treatment, and of the constitutional legal rights of the individual.

    The current methadone program is ineffective, by the administrator's own admission, yet this is the ' reality of treatment ' .

    The constitutional rights of an individual should not give them free reign to be anti-social. There's something wrong there.


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    #75
    hotbabe1992
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭hotbabe1992


    I'll be honest rounding them up may be a viable option,and relocating them in a jail cell to cool down for a couple of hours may be the only thing to do.

    So punters on the peak hours can enjoy the city centre without being overly hassled.

    Ive been hassled there a while ago when i was up in dublin,been shouted at and called a ****,its not just a one off either,probably cos i go up to dublin more often,but for regular dubliners i would say this is a common occurance and its just not acceptable.

    Even in wethouses(one which i worked in it was tough out),we would turn away junkies that were goofing off,junkies that werent goofing off or drunk were accpeted.

    The point im making is that its not acceptable.I know these people have a right to be in public and go about their daily sh*t but if its affecting the majority of people go about their business well then thats going to be a problem,and a problem that needs fixing.

    I was on my own going up on the 10 euro bus to dublin the other week and a junkie was eyeballing the crowds coming off the bus,i was to meet up in grafton street,before i went off the bus i pretended i was with a crowd by walking in between them as i was afraid i would be targeted.

    Its not acceptable that junkies are eyeballing people near atms and shopping streets and buses,its intimidating..You know that something is going to happen its not a matter of if..It will happen(muggings etc)..


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    #76
    LynnGrace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭LynnGrace


    Was in that general area this evening about 6, there were a lot of guards on North Earl St, don't know why.


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    #77
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Frank Grimes wrote: »
    I don't know them so I can't really answer that, I assume you don't think all unemployed people act in that manner though? Or attend methadone clinics? Because that's what your sweeping generalisation implies.

    So going by your 'logic' all unemployed people should be relocated from the edges of the city, as naturally we don't really want their 'types' around here either, or is there some sort of pecking order that you have in mind? Is social housing/rent allowance/general unemployment whilst living somewhere only acceptable to you when it's out of sight and in suburbs? Why should someone have to forgo their housing, regardless of where it is, just because they are unemployed?

    This is the worse misunderstanding of logic on boards since that guy who said "I hope you don't think everything black is a crow" in reply to the guy who said all crows were black.

    And I made that up.


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    #78
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Anyway in response to the people who suggest we can't arrest people who don't break laws - plenty of laws are already being broken. Loitering, public intoxication, disorderly conduct, shooting up in public, public sex, stalking, harassment, littering, ****ting and peeing in public, occasional public nudity mostly of the crotch or arse.

    Just enforce the laws.


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    #79
    hotbabe1992
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭hotbabe1992


    Agreed.Since i was up last for some reason it seems to have gotten worse,i used to go restaurant in the gresham now i avoid that place like the plague - its just too risky.

    Even westmoreland street is dodgy even all the main streets are getting to be dodgy,i never seen such a concentration of junkies in my life.

    In limerick which i shop in from time to time is only full of junkies on one street which is william st.

    But in dublin its everywhere,pretty much,and thieves are everywhere when i was up last i heard some tourist from japan got robbed of 1,000 and all their cards,they had to go home in an emergency.

    Thats a good days robbing,people who are hanging about with no purpose should be picked up by the cops straight away.

    There should be cop cars swarming every town and city in ireland(like they do in the US) thats affected by this heroin epidemic.

    Its just not on.


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    #80
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    This is the worse misunderstanding of logic on boards since that guy who said "I hope you don't think everything black is a crow" in reply to the guy who said all crows were black.

    And I made that up.
    I didn't misunderstand anything. I was just applying his own 'logic' to the situation in areas outside of the city centre. He suggested that unemployed people should be relocated to "the edges of the city", for no apparent reason other than he doesn't seem to like them. I was just pointing out that this could work both ways in that people who live on the "edges of the city" could do the same for similar reasons, but he seems to have prioritised the need of people living in the city centre to be free of the unemployed for whatever reason he has.


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    #81
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    LynnGrace wrote: »
    Was in that general area this evening about 6, there were a lot of guards on North Earl St, don't know why.

    A large part of the street outside the empty unit between saburrito and Clery's was taped off when I was walking past about 7. I'm going to take a wild guess and say it was junkie related.


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    #82
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Frank Grimes wrote: »
    I didn't misunderstand anything. I was just applying his own 'logic' to the situation in areas outside of the city centre. He suggested that unemployed people should be relocated to "the edges of the city", for no apparent reason other than he doesn't seem to like them. I was just pointing out that this could work both ways in that people who live on the "edges of the city" could do the same for similar reasons, but he seems to have prioritised the need of people living in the city centre to be free of the unemployed for whatever reason he has.

    He didn't. He said "junkies" should be relocated , or methadone clinics should be. It was you who came to the "logical" conclusion that that meant all unemployed people. The simplest logical fallacy.


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    #83
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    He didn't. He said "junkies" should be relocated , or methadone clinics should be. It was you who came to the "logical" conclusion that that meant all unemployed people. The simplest logical fallacy.
    Re-read his posts, he did not limit it to "junkies".


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    #84
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    sabat wrote: »
    A large part of the street outside the empty unit between saburrito and Clery's was taped off when I was walking past about 7. I'm going to take a wild guess and say it was junkie related.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/young-man-rushed-to-hospital-after-city-centre-stabbing-29830807.html


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    #85
    Straight Talker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭Straight Talker


    P.Walnuts wrote: »
    The junkies will literally not bother anyone but other junkies. The only danger to the average person is phone snatching from what I can see.

    From reading these threads you'd get the impression Dublin city centre was downtown Damascus. There are loads of junkies but that doesn't mean its not safe.

    Is that right do the junkies have a gentlemens agreement with you where they agreed not to attack and rob innocent people?:D The facts are that junkie scum have free reign in the O'Connell Street area and don't try and tell me that's acceptable.Maybe if you ever get attacked or robbed by one you won't be so blase and ignorant about it.Of course it's not just Dublin heroin has now emerged as a serious problem in Cork and Limerick as well.

    Cork 1990 All Ireland Senior Hurling and Football Champions



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    #86
    Straight Talker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭Straight Talker


    That is scary what the poster said there about junkies looking for vulnerable passengers to target coming off the buses in Busarus.We hear impassioned pleas from these nutcase rabid dog liberals about the rights of the drug addict.What about my right and other peoples rights as citizens and visitors to walk down the main streets of our cities in peace without worrying about our safety?

    Cork 1990 All Ireland Senior Hurling and Football Champions



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    #87
    P.Walnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 4,769 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Jesus alot of frightened and paranoid posters on this thread. Just go about your business in town and enjoy yourselves and stop worrying what's around every corner, all this scaremongering does nobody any good, be aware of your personal safety obviously but I think people are getting carried away.


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    #88
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    mhge wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/young-man-rushed-to-hospital-after-city-centre-stabbing-29830807.html

    Have posters noticed a trend in the last few years? There have been stabbings and "persons found with serious injuries" smack bang in the heart of the city centre, only a few weeks ago there was another stabbing on O'Connell st. This never happened so frequently before.

    You'd expect this type of stuff shouldn't happen in the centre of a capital city but in Ireland it does.


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    #89
    Evan DietrichSmith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Evan DietrichSmith


    dd972 wrote: »
    Was walking past Wynn's Hotel the other day and there was a full scale barney going on among the usual nasal voiced pyjama and Nike clad suspects, one of whom was down an alley with his joggers and keks down scratching his family allowance in broad daylight :eek:

    No Guards in sight as usual, and to think thousands of tourists from Europe and beyond flock to this kip and usually disembark the Airport bus in this vicinity.

    Would it be a better idea if the Methadone clinics were located in Industrial estates in a radius around the M50 and the one on Amiens St for instance was down by the Port? Coupled with a 'what the f**k are you doing here?' crackdown by the Garda.

    What we as a society have to decide is whether the comfort and safety of the thousands of people and tourists , commuters and workers,children and pensioners can be constantly blighted by the anti social behaviour of a small but omnipresent minority.

    Dublin City centre, especially the O'Connell /Talbot area is rapidly become an area to be avoided.

    I am not judging anyone who may have major problems,but saying that the vast majority of ordinary citizens deserve to be able to enjoy their city without the harassment and behaviour of these people.

    Surely that is not too much to expect.


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    #90
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,688 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    P.Walnuts wrote: »
    Jesus alot of frightened and paranoid posters on this thread

    + 1... I don't get the paranoia. You're far more likely to get a dig in other parts of the country than Dublin. Anyone with their wits about them is perfectly safe in the city centre. Although the heroin problem is a problem, an eyesore and does cause social issues. It needs to be addressed, but it's not the Armageddon people are making it out to be. I can promise you, it affects the affected families far more than it does the people in this thread.


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    #91
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    JustAddWater wrote: »
    I have a legal right to enjoy my city...
    Not if that means you can demand that anyone you don't like the look of has to be forcibly removed in order for you to enjoy it, it doesn't.


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