Zero Tolerance for Dublin City Centre, would it work?

drumswan

I suspect that if some our delicate and sensitive country cousins had their way they'd have all of Dublins working class excluded from their own city

January

Thread is descending into sly digs and attacking posters. It's starting to go around in circles also, get it back on track or it will be closed.

P.Walnuts

Straight Talker wrote: »

When you are losing the argument then question the integrity of the poster with the opposite opinion!:D

Ha!

What argument?

I'm only stating I can walk around town and enjoy myself without jumping at my own shadow, not denying at all there are junkies acting clowns, but it doesn't stop me ( or the vast vast majority of people ) going about our daily business.

If you want to balk and cower in fear at any member of the public that doesn't fit into your imagined utopian society then that totally your perogative, I couldn't care less :pac:

Edit : Just seen mod message, that's my last post

P.Walnuts

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

What order i post things in doesnt make me a liar if that is what you are insinuating...

I did mention my cousin got robbed,my brother didnt he was just asked if he wanted any gear,he still felt threatened though,eventhough he was all bravado and didnt admit to feeling threatened.

I didnt hear rumours about pickpockets my mother warned me about them watching people getting off buses from the countryside because she was up to dublin about every 2 months to vist a psychiatrist in st pats..

I actually seen what looked like a junkie watching me and other people get off the bus,seeming i was on my own i pretended to be with a crowd by sticking close to them until i knew i was out of sight.

When i got back to the bus at westmoreland st,i saw that same man with a cup in his hand now trying a new trick begging,then he got in the luggage dept to try to steal a few bags,thankfully he was caught by the busdriver,and when the busdriver said he would ring the gards he said sure ring them call the gards etc.

When we were just boarding the bus he was shaking a cup when we were on the bus he was in the luggage department.


Thats what happened you dont have to believe me i dont need your validation.

Saw you did mention your cousin in an earlier post, apologies!

hotbabe1992

I suspect that if some our delicate and sensitive country cousins had their way they'd have all of Dublins working class excluded from their own city

Im not suggesting kick everybody that doesnt fit the norm out of town,im not suggesting like people who wear adidas and nikey to f*ck off,im saying kick those out of town that have been a hassle to the public at large,businesses,and so on..

If businesses dont do well in the city centre it suffers,if people are getting robbed it suffers,you know word of mouth gets out there and news travels fast especially nowso in the age of technology internet etc.

miss no stars

Wilfork wrote: »

I'd be willing to bet a lot of the people commenting that they basically want drug addicts dragged off to camps for processing are snorting coke and popping pills in clubs at the weekend. Heroine addicts are not dirt to be scraped off your shoes you know

So wanting treatment programmes - proper ones that keep them off the streets (ever hear the phrase 'the devil makes work for idle hands'?) - means that I myself am a drug user who thinks they're like dirt to be scraped off my shoes?

I do not take any illegal substances. I rarely drink and don't smoke. I don't see them as subhuman, but I also don't see them as part of society either - they don't contribute anything but detract plenty. I do feel sorry for them. No kid says they want to be an addict when they grow up. While being able to feel sorry for them, I also get really annoyed by them. I really wish they weren't hanging around the main social and commercial area of the city making life annoying for people. Nobody loses out by moving them to a treatment centre, getting them clean and back on their feet, in a position to learn a skill and rejoin society. But as heroin addicts hanging around making life difficult for ordinary, law abiding members of society, they are on the very bottom of society. Serial murderers, paedophiles and sex offenders are the only people below them.

Frank Lee Midere

returnNull wrote: »

And in birmingham,london and amsterdam when I lived there..its not unique to dublin.

The amount of hysteria in this thread is unreal you'd swear it was lagos
EDIT: whoops reekwind used downtown mogadishu lol..changed mine to some random african sh1thole

If anybody thinks oxford street or the champs élysées are like oconnell street you need to travel more.

hotbabe1992

Just because mogadishu is a murderous ghetto sh*thole doesnt mean we should not expect better from dublin.

It is seen as the capital of ireland,and a main destination for tourists and other local travellers alike.

We should expect better.

Wilfork

miss no stars wrote: »

So wanting treatment programmes - proper ones that keep them off the streets (ever hear the phrase 'the devil makes work for idle hands'?) - means that I myself am a drug user who thinks they're like dirt to be scraped off my shoes?

I do not take any illegal substances. I rarely drink and don't smoke. I don't see them as subhuman, but I also don't see them as part of society either - they don't contribute anything but detract plenty. I do feel sorry for them. No kid says they want to be an addict when they grow up. While being able to feel sorry for them, I also get really annoyed by them. I really wish they weren't hanging around the main social and commercial area of the city making life annoying for people. Nobody loses out by moving them to a treatment centre, getting them clean and back on their feet, in a position to learn a skill and rejoin society. But as heroin addicts hanging around making life difficult for ordinary, law abiding members of society, they are on the very bottom of society. Serial murderers, paedophiles and sex offenders are the only people below them.

Of course not. That doesn't follow at all. Which is why I didn't say that.

If people can't get clean in jail, what makes you think moving them to a treatment centre will them clean and back on their feet and in a position to learn a skill and rejoin society? Call a spade a spade. Wanting drug addicts out of the city centre is purely a 'not in my back yard' argument.

hotbabe1992

So what do you propose we should do with them then?

It is a problem,what do you suggest we should do?

Wilfork

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

So what do you propose we should do with them then?

It is a problem,what do you suggest we should do?

There's nothing you can do. Drugs will always be a problem

hotbabe1992

So just live and let rob? Is that your suggestion.Very bright idea.

Wilfork

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

So just live and let rob? Is that your suggestion.Very bright idea.

If you want a serious answer, it seems to me that serious drug addiction is most common among the lower working class who are most uneducated. It's pointless to think that you can turn a junkie's life around because they are gone too far down a path that started when he or she was a toddler. A wide variety of factors lead to drug abuse and shipping somebody off to a treatment centre is like slamming the barn door after the horse has bolted. If you want to decrease instances of drug addiction, improve the standard of living of the poorest in society.

These are just my opinions

hotbabe1992

The situation is they are already deeply addicted to drugs,regardless of wheter you raise the living standards wont make a sh*t of a difference right now tbh.Although i get what you are trying to say prevention is better than cure.But what do you do with those who are already addicted,raise their living standards and hope for the best,cross yer fingers like?

They need to be on methedone treatment programmes and put their name down on the list for a treatment center for a few months to at least attempt to kick the habit.

Dont knock it till you try it approach. Better to have them in treatment or on the waiting lists then nothing at all.

returnNull

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

If anybody thinks oxford street or the champs élysées are like oconnell street you need to travel more.

or maybe live in the cities I mentioned.If you think the carry on you see in dublin city centre is unique you're delusional.I could write a post that would cause every poster to reply with 'tl;dr'.

hotbabe1992

So what your saying null is that its okay for dublin to be like a dump bc other cities are too.?

That response is just not good enough.

Wilfork

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

The situation is they are already deeply addicted to drugs,regardless of wheter you raise the living standards wont make a sh*t of a difference right now tbh.

They need to be on methedone treatment programmes and put their name down on the list for a treatment center for a few months to at least attempt to kick the habit.

Dont knock it till you try it approach. Better to have them in treatment or on the waiting lists then nothing at all.

Of course it won't make a difference right now. That was kinda my point – there's nothing you can do for existing junkies.

But if there is no cure we can at least prevent the cycle from repeating into the future by addressing the issue at source.

returnNull

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

They need to be on methedone treatment programmes and put their name down on the list for a treatment center for a few months to at least attempt to kick the habit.

something like 4k places for an estimated 12k junkies in the city.Dublin has always struggled with heroin.

Also the miracle drug methadone which ironically is more addictive than heroin itself.The state is quiet happy to jand this stuff out week in,week out with no attempt to get them off it.Doesnt stop scumbags behaving like scumbags either.

Red Nissan

dd972 wrote: »

Was walking past Wynn's Hotel .

Dublin was lost twenty years ago through inaction, Dublin was warned fifty years previously. RIP Dublin.

returnNull

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

So what your saying null is that its okay for dublin to be like a dump bc other cities are too.?

Where did i say that?

Just pointed out that this anti-social carry on not only happens in dublin but in other cities.

returnNull

Red Nissan wrote: »

Dublin was lost twenty years ago through inaction, Dublin was warned fifty years previously. RIP Dublin.

30 years ago even,the dunnes started importing the poison then...

Straight Talker

returnNull wrote: »

Where did i say that?

Just pointed out that this anti-social carry on not only happens in dublin but in other cities.

That's very true but how does that alleviate the situation that we have in part of Dublin city centre and other parts of Ireland?Of course cities in other parts of the world would have more efficient policing of the city centre than what we have in Ireland.I was in Liverpool during the summer and the city centre there is much better policed and it feels a lot safer than parts of Dublin city centre.Sometimes i get the impression that all the guards care about is taking free food and drinks out of hotels,driving from one service station to another for coffee top up's and issuing speeding tickets to some poor misfortunate who was just barely over the speeding limit!btw I don't understand these people that say ignore it.It's hard to ignore it if your waiting for buses and when your getting out your money for the bus hoping that you don't get hassled by undesirables.Surely we can all agree that policing in Dublin city centre can be a hell of a lot better than what it is at the moment?

hotbabe1992

I was in Liverpool during the summer and the city centre there is much better policed and it feels a lot safer than parts of Dublin city centre.Sometimes i get the impression that all the guards care about is taking free food and drinks out of hotels,driving from one service station to another for coffee top ups and issuing speeding tickets to some poor misfortunate who was just barely over the speeding limit!btw I don't understand these people that say ignore it.It's hard to ignore it if your waiting for buses and when your getting out your money for the bus hoping that you don't get hassled by undesirables.

There out in force to check that you renewed your insurance,and set up money makign speed traps,but where are they when someones about to be robbed or stabbed like what happened recently.

I dont feel the policing situation is up to scratch my feeling on it is you might see the odd token gard here and there,but you wont see regular patrols even or cars just cruising to see whats the story.

The odd paddy wagon being called out to round them up,is not even considered when its commonplace in most other major cities around the world.

Straight Talker

Reekwind wrote: »

The problem being that people here seem to think that Dublin's city centre is on par with downtown Mogadishu. And as a result youse want to socially cleanse the city of 'undesirables' (or "dirt" or "detritus" or "scum") by shipping a whole section of the population off the some suburb or to prison. That's nuts

It's crazy both because it's the Stalinist approach to crime and because it's driven by this absolutely hysterical insistence that Dublin is becoming a war zone, one in which "ordinary citizens" are scared to enter. At which point I wonder what planet, never mind city, some people are living on. If anyone here is genuinely afraid to go shopping without a massive police operation to round all potential dangers off the streets then the problem is very much with them

Seriously, the arrogance of assumptions here (it's "our city", as if you have exclusive rights to live there) and sheer disdain for other people's rights is staggering. It's attitudes like those in this thread (sure, just lump all the poor people into ghettoes) that created those inner city enclaves of poverty in the first place

The mind does indeed boggle

Edit: In fact, my mind is boggling so much that I just read it again. This statement encapsulates much of the problem with people in this thread: the assumption the city belongs to them; that the sole purpose of the city centre is to shop or commute (so much for 'living there'); the sheer gall in assuming that anyone who does not live in the same way as them is in the wrong; and, most bafflingly, the casual call for the imposition of a police state. Bizarre

So to cut a long story short you are saying that people have a right to rob,steal,mug,intimidate and assault people and deal drugs in Dublin city centre?;) All of those things are against the law.Like it or not those are the facts.To be honest that post is just a load of rambly and waffly liberal do gooding nonsense!I find your disdain for the rights of the ordinary decent citizens of Dublin and it's visitors to be pathetic and insulting.As you said yourself the disdain that you have for those peoples rights is staggering.

hotbabe1992

So to cut a long story short you are saying that people have a right to rob,steal,mug,intimidate and assault people and deal drugs in Dublin city centre? All of those things are against the law.Like it or not those are the facts.

These are red/commie/champagne socialists,you can be guaranteed they will offer no real solutions..

Straight Talker

Wilfork wrote: »

There's nothing you can do. Drugs will always be a problem

Yes that's right but i think it's reasonable to ask that the issues with drug addicts in Dublin city centre and other urban areas in Ireland be dealt with.

Reekwind

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

You think its mind boggling to move a few people on who are intently watching people coming off buses from the country.?Tell me what do you think their intentions are if they are watching people coming off buses???

Again with this hysterical overreaction. Someone has told you that they saw someone get mugged after getting off a bus and now apparently there are hordes of hardened criminals waiting for fresh pickings off every bus? That's just silly

Are you afraid to visit Australia in case you're eaten by dingos?

What is your suggestion dont move them on they have human rights blah blah blah..?

In a nutshell, yes. Randomly arresting people who have committed no crime is, in itself, deeply illegal. You have the right not to be arrested for doing nothing wrong. It's a right that you're blasé about waiving for people other than yourself

If thats too much for your brain to take,wait for my next suggestion,move them out of the city from peak hours from 9-6pm,anybody loitering or up to no good watching people(its obvious the intention),should be holed up in a cell for a couple of hours,so the commuters and shoppers can get some breathing space without worrying are they going to be robbed or taken at knifepoint down some alleyway..

Really, this is as above. Let me ask the question though: are you really suggesting that an entire population of people (hundreds of entirely innocent bystanders) be arrested on a daily basis and held for nine hours a day just so you can go shopping without being plagued by baseless fears?

That is insane. Not only does it criminalise 'standing around' (let's arrest everyone waiting by the Spire or GPO, right?) but the odds of you actually being robbed or stabbed in Dublin during these peak hours is minuscule. As for the shopping, well, at least Stalin justified his crimes by appealing to the big picture

I was in NYC a year ago and was there over ten years ago too,and the place was very non threatening all the junkies/druggos were moved on if they reared their ugly head,there was strictly no begging or loitering looking for peoples wallets etc.

And yet you are statistically almost twice as likely to be murdered or violently assaulted in New York than you are Dublin. Your perception of safety is entirely wrong

Straight Talker wrote:

So to cut a long story short you are saying that people have a right to rob,steal,mug,intimidate and assault people and deal drugs in Dublin city centre?

Not in the slightest. "A load of rambly and waffly liberal do gooding nonsense" or not, you clearly didn't read my post at all. Nothing in there, or anything that I have written in this thread, suggests that. That is a simple strawman on your part

So I suggest that you go back, read my posts and formulate an argument that actually addresses it. Hint: try to understand the possibility of fighting crime without pulling innocent people off the street and interning or deporting them

hotbabe1992

Again with this hysterical overreaction. Someone has told you that they saw someone get mugged after getting off a bus and now apparently there are hordes of hardened criminals waiting for fresh pickings off every bus? That's just silly

I was warned to be careful and alert when coming off the bus,again i will tell you what happened i got off the bus i spotted a guy watching me so i pretended i was part of a crowd i just kind of went very close by them,until i knew i was out of sight.

That same man appeared again at about 20 minutes before 9 shaking a cup he was looking for money.Then when we boarded the bus he got in the luggage department and tried to take some bags,the bus driver spotted him ran out and caught him,he threatened to call the guards,and the junkie lookin fella said ''go on call the gards''..

This is what you are up against in the city,and its putting punters from outside dublin off the city,word travels fast people will naturally talk about the junkie/scobe problem in the city.

Sure the board walk is overtaken by them and it was supposed to be a nice place to sit by and buy a coffee if you wanted to buy a coffee or just to sit there with your own sandwiches..You cant do that with all the junkies there hassling ya.

Really, this is as above. Let me ask the question though: are you really suggesting that an entire population of people (hundreds of entirely innocent bystanders) be arrested on a daily basis and held for nine hours a day just so you can go shopping without being plagued by baseless fears?

Is it really unreasonbable to expect junkies to be moved on?

And yet you are statistically almost twice as likely to be murdered or violently assaulted in New York than you are Dublin. Your perception of safety is entirely wrong

No my perception of saftey was on the mark,if you are in NYC city you are fine once you reach the outskirts like harlem etc,you mightnt be so fine,and yeah there are shootings and stabbings but they are outside the well patrolled city.

alastair

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Is it really unreasonbable to expect junkies to be moved on?[/B]

Yes it is. Unless they're doing something illegal - and they generally are not.

hotbabe1992

I dont think it would be unreasonable to move them on,as their intentions in hanging around are far from honourable,why do you think they hang around watching people?

So they can fund their fix,dont get me wrong their alright and not much of a threat when they are high/goofing off on heroin,but its when they have come down and they are desperate,thats when people should worry.

The whole point of moving them on - would be part of preventative policing methods which they employ in a lot of large cities like NYC.