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New Buy to Let Loans

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    #2
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    Absolutely scandalous that a bank being kept alive with state support is considering engaging in risky lending practices again.


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    #3
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    gaius c wrote: »
    Absolutely scandalous that a bank being kept alive with state support is considering engaging in risky lending practices again.

    If they do their due diligence, what's the harm?

    Creating buyers for properties that are probably on the books as underperforming loans. Bringing up the value to reduce the numbers in negative equity.


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    #4
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    ted1 wrote: »
    If they do their due diligence, what's the harm?

    Creating buyers for properties that are probably on the books as underperforming loans. Bringing up the value to reduce the numbers in negative equity.

    Interest only loans?
    At least the BoI loans are talking about max 50% LTV but there's no such qualifier against the PTSB loans.

    It's quite simple. A bank that wouldn't even exist without taxpayer support should not be taking risks with their money.


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    #5
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,628 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    They are doing BTL mortgages again despite the fact that a large percentage of the previous BTL mortgages are in huge arrears?

    Only in Ireland.


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    #6
    Gileadi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Gileadi


    In fairness the idea of having a BTL mortgage product isn't a problem imo, once there is suitable criteria set to access one.

    The problem in the past was every worker and his dog that applied for one (as an investment property etc etc) generally got one, leaving the rental sector with a significant amount of inexperienced landlords and leaving the banks exposed once these people lost jobs or got massive pay cuts so couldn't service the mortgage.

    I would have no problem with a professional landlord (there are a few of them about) getting access to capital, once they have a solid enough business plan and can meet a sensible repayment schedule.


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    #7
    indiewindy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭indiewindy


    Gileadi wrote: »
    In fairness the idea of having a BTL mortgage product isn't a problem imo, once there is suitable criteria set to access one.

    The problem in the past was every worker and his dog that applied for one (as an investment property etc etc) generally got one, leaving the rental sector with a significant amount of inexperienced landlords and leaving the banks exposed once these people lost jobs or got massive pay cuts so couldn't service the mortgage.

    I would have no problem with a professional landlord (there are a few of them about) getting access to capital, once they have a solid enough business plan and can meet a sensible repayment schedule.

    The biggest problem I see is that a bank which was wiped out by bad property loans and only survives on taxpayer support is now going back into a market which it has already proved itself to be totally useless at. Why should the taxpayer have to subsidise another attempt to pump up the property bubble again, its no surprise that so many foreign banks are getting out of Ireland


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    #8
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    If the gov are to see any money back that they gave the banks, then the banks have to make money.
    The only way that's going to happen is if they give out loans.
    Provided they do due diligence and don't give loans to those who don't meet the criteria then there's nothing wrong with it.


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    #9
    Someday
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Someday


    This is for people who earn over 100K and Loan to Value is 60% or less. That is fine and wise but like the last time this may change!


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    #10
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Scortho wrote: »
    If the gov are to see any money back that they gave the banks, then the banks have to make money.
    The only way that's going to happen is if they give out loans.
    Provided they do due diligence and don't give loans to those who don't meet the criteria then there's nothing wrong with it.

    There is actually.

    New BTLs >> Less residential property for purchase >> more renters >> higher rents >> Increased Property price

    You will end up with a landlord dominated property market where joe public will never be able to buy property and forced to pay extortionate rents.

    So while PTSB may be repaying the tax payer the next generation of tax payers will be paying high rents to cover this.

    Another ingenious way to get innocent people to pay for other people's mess.


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    #11
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    Someday wrote: »
    This is for people who earn over 100K and Loan to Value is 60% or less. That is fine and wise but like the last time this may change!

    For the BOI mortgages yes but no such qualification re the PTSB mortgages in the article linked above.


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    #12
    indiewindy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭indiewindy


    gaius c wrote: »
    For the BOI mortgages yes but no such qualification re the PTSB mortgages in the article linked above.

    Taken from the rte website

    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/1209/491675-permanent-tsb/
    Permanent TSB is hoping to capitalise on increasing levels of activity in the construction sector with a range of new products being launched aimed at the buy-to-let sector.

    Among the new products is one aimed at Irish people living abroad who might want to purchase property here.

    To qualify for the new mortgage, the person must earn over €100,000, or the equivalent in their local currency.

    A maximum loan to value of 60% will apply.


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    #13
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Zamboni wrote: »
    There is actually.

    New BTLs >> Less residential property for purchase >> more renters >> higher rents >> Increased Property price


    Would that mean and increase in rental properties therefore reduced rent.

    Anybody who thinks it is a conspiracy to stop people owning houses or to put the common working man down can never talk about things logically IMHO.

    Would you prefer cheaper houses and less people with jobs?


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    #14
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    Last time FTB's had to compete with investors for their first home with investors having far too favourable mortgage terms(interest only and mortgage interest written off by tax). Unfair indeed for a bank who is still in trouble with arrears.


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    #15
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Would that mean and increase in rental properties therefore reduced rent.

    Anybody who thinks it is a conspiracy to stop people owning houses or to put the common working man down can never talk about things logically IMHO.

    Would you prefer cheaper houses and less people with jobs?

    But it's interest only so they are depending on capital appreciation to make their money, i.e. flippers. You may be aware that our economy has had some difficulties with speculators chucking yield out the window and depending on capital appreciation for their returns?


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