Would really appreciate Dog advice

jantheman91

I've a 13 year old Springer Spaniel who suffers from horrendous yeast infections to the point where he scratches the skin off himself. We've had him down at the vet over 10 times regarding the issue and they have come to the conclusion he has an incurable allergic skin disease due to immune system irregularities.

We've had him on steroids and although they do help he still scratches and the smell is still there. We're at our wits end with him as we feel so sorry for him as he scratches all the time and we can't seem to help the poor guy.

Have tried natural remedies such as oregano in natural yoghurt and the same effects have been found as with the steroids prescribed by the vet.

Does anybody have any guidance or advice having dealt with this before?

I feel so sorry because no matter what we do we cannot seem to help him and as an owner it feels terrible.

Many thanks.

Toulouse

This may be of interest until some of the more experienced allergy boardsies come along http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056949229&page=2

Also:
What is he being fed?
How long has this issue been on-going?
Has he had a skin scrape?

fatmammycat

Can I ask what kind of diet he is on, my friend who owned a particuarly yeasty basset (including hotspots and an allergy to dust mites of all things), changed her dog to raw and his symptoms cleared up within two/three weeks. He still has to take an anti-histimine daily, but he has NONE of the smell or the terrible sensitive itch he had before. I realise this might not work for all dogs, but it is anecdotal and slightly remarkable in this case.

anniehoo

Have they given you a name for the yeast involved? The most common one is Malasezzia and while it's a normal part of your dogs skin, there are various things that can trigger it off/make it worse i.e. long term steroid use is one of them.

Have they performed any skin allergy tests or has it just been trial and error with steroids? Have they performed any blood workup tests to see why his immune system is compromised. Some conditions such as hypothyroidism or Cushings can exacerbate a Malasezzia issue. Testing for both these conditions are relatively straighforward (measurement of Thyroxine T4 and TSH thyroid stimulating hormone for hypothyroidism) and a biochemistry panel combined with an ACTH stim test for Cushings.

Very few vets are expert dermatologists and "skin issues" are often just blanket treated with steroids/washes/change in diet. Would you be willing to be referred to an actual dermatology specialist?

Inexile

when you eliminate problems with diet or allergies you could look at acupuncture. I know it sounds odd but a friend of mine tried it on her dog and it worked. Some vets will recommend a practictioner - some may even do it within the practice.

Dogs cant have a placebo effect so you will know it is really working or not.

jantheman91

Toulouse wrote: »

This may be of interest until some of the more experienced allergy boardsies come along http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056949229&page=2

Also:
What is he being fed?
How long has this issue been on-going?
Has he had a skin scrape?

Really appreciate all the replies and i'll try answer them all.

He's being fed GAIN muesli and nuts.

He has had a skin scrape yes. Was told what he has is characteristic of a yeast infection. Asked about both types of mange and the vet ruled them out.

jantheman91

anniehoo wrote: »

Have they given you a name for the yeast involved? The most common one is Malasezzia and while it's a normal part of your dogs skin, there are various things that can trigger it off/make it worse i.e. long term steroid use is one of them.

Have they performed any skin allergy tests or has it just been trial and error with steroids? Have they performed any blood workup tests to see why his immune system is compromised. Some conditions such as hypothyroidism or Cushings can exacerbate a Malasezzia issue. Testing for both these conditions are relatively straighforward (measurement of Thyroxine T4 and TSH thyroid stimulating hormone for hypothyroidism) and a biochemistry panel combined with an ACTH stim test for Cushings.

Very few vets are expert dermatologists and "skin issues" are often just blanket treated with steroids/washes/change in diet. Would you be willing to be referred to an actual dermatology specialist?

Thanks very much for the reply.

You've got the name of the yeast spot on. That's exactly what she said it was. He hasn't had any blood tests recently but has had them in the past due to other health problems (i.e. glaucoma).

We've spent A LOT of money trying to keep him in the best health possible but setbacks appear one after another. We were told we could go see a specialist but were advised to try other means first.

Both vets know about the money we've had to spend on vets bills so they're both reluctant to pawn us off to a specialist so to speak and try to do what they can to help. I understand a specialist would probably make the most sense but we just haven't followed through with it.

Lack of pet insurance and over 2,000 euro of vets bills gets rather overwhelming.

anniehoo

jantheman91 wrote: »

Lack of pet insurance and over 2,000 euro of vets bills gets rather overwhelming.

:eek: I can imagine.

At this stage though (10 vet trips later with no improvement and no recent blood tests being done) I'd be demanding a referral to a specialist as you've already spent a fortune on treatment that isn't working.

Blood testing is vital now to be honest to get a baseline idea of what is going on physiologically before anything else is tried.If this yeast problem is secondary to Cushings for example, you'll need meds to block excessive cortisol production before anything else is effective. See the third image here as an example.

Maybe just mention this over the phone first, before you spend anymore money on vet visits

maggiepip

You should try a product called "Dermacton". Its a natural product which actually does work, it really does relieve itching - Ive used it on my own dog in the past when his skin flared up.

Now obviously its not a cure, and its very important to try and find the cause of the problem in the first place, but this stuff is brilliant for giving relief. I found in a way it was a type of "cure" as it stopped the itch scratch cycle and gave my dog a chance to heal.

These days I dont need it (touch wood). A grain and gluten free wet food diet has helped my dog enormously along with coconut oil and salmon oil in his food. But if his skin flared up badly again I would be ordering a bottle of dermacton in a flash.

I cant put the link in because Im on my phone but the website is - www.aromesse.com it costs 15.45 stg and the spray lotion is the best and easiest to apply. It is really worth a try.

DBB

Jayney OP, your poor dog
As it happens, I've a fair bit of experience dealing with the lovely Malessezia, as I work with a breed that is seriously prone to skin problems. The Springer is quite susceptible too.
Notwithstanding Anniehoo's advice to follow this up a bit further to make sure there are no underlying nasties like Cushing's, I will say one absolutely categorical thing which you need to do, right now.
Get him off that feckin food! :P
Food that contains wheat and other cereals is seriously implicated in skin problems. Dogs are not really designed to process gluten, even a benign cereal like rice can cause problems, though it's usually reasonably safe.
So, he needs to go cereal free. There are cereal free dry foods out there, but there's another reason why you might want to consider going down the not-dry-food route.
Another huge contributor to skin problems is the storage mite, which lives in dry foods. All dry dog food, even really expensive dry dog food!
So, you could kill two birds with one stone by switching your dog onto a diet which eliminates both problems in one fell swoop: either switch him to a home-made fresh diet (some advocate raw, I've switched from raw to slow-cooking a yum-tastic chicken stew every few days, using chicken that's on special offer in Tesco, or Aldi (great value on small chickens there right now... much cheaper per kilo than your average dry food), or go for a commercially prepared, high quality "wet" food, such as Naturediet, Rocco, Rinti, Lukullus (check out www.zooplus.ie for deals on these in bulk). Do not use any supermarket tinned foods, the "meaty chunks" in these tins are largely made of reconstituted wheat :eek:
Finally from a food point of view... FISH! OILY FISH! Absolutely, positively fantastic for bad skin. Go to Tesco, get tins of pilchards in tomato sauce. Or Aldi/Lidl for sardines.. avoid fish in vegetable oil, opt instead for fish packed in tomato sauce or mineral water. Get this into your itchy Springer every day if you can, it is packed full of stuff that's not only great for skin, it's fab for an ageing brain too! In fact, it can actually help to reverse the signs of mental ageing... how cool is that?!
Be really careful with other stuff like treats, chews etc to make sure they're cereal free. Vegetables, dried meat treats etc are fine. Dentastix, Jumbones, other crunchy treats are off the menu.
Give this 6 weeks minimum.

Has your vet given you a medicated shampoo for your dog (probably Malaseb)? If he has, use it... it's very good. If he hasn't, tell him you want it. It's expensive, but I've found that if you give them a shampoo with a tea-tree shampoo first, then slap on the Malaseb and leave it on for at least 10 mins, the Malaseb goes a lot further.
Your vet should also be able to give you a bottle of Cortavance: this is to stop periodic itching. Often, when you make all these changes, the dog is recovering and the skin looking lots better, but gets the odd itchy spot. He scratches it, and all of a sudden you've a big old sore spot to control. Cortavance spray means you can stop these spots becoming too irritating, allowing the skin to recover.

Good luck OP, I don't envy you. It's a feckin horrible affliction

jantheman91

DBB wrote: »

Jayney OP, your poor dog
As it happens, I've a fair bit of experience dealing with the lovely Malessezia, as I work with a breed that is seriously prone to skin problems. The Springer is quite susceptible too.
Notwithstanding Anniehoo's advice to follow this up a bit further to make sure there are no underlying nasties like Cushing's, I will say one absolutely categorical thing which you need to do, right now.
Get him off that feckin food! :P
Food that contains wheat and other cereals is seriously implicated in skin problems. Dogs are not really designed to process gluten, even a benign cereal like rice can cause problems, though it's usually reasonably safe.
So, he needs to go cereal free. There are cereal free dry foods out there, but there's another reason why you might want to consider going down the not-dry-food route.
Another huge contributor to skin problems is the storage mite, which lives in dry foods. All dry dog food, even really expensive dry dog food!
So, you could kill two birds with one stone by switching your dog onto a diet which eliminates both problems in one fell swoop: either switch him to a home-made fresh diet (some advocate raw, I've switched from raw to slow-cooking a yum-tastic chicken stew every few days, using chicken that's on special offer in Tesco, or Aldi (great value on small chickens there right now... much cheaper per kilo than your average dry food), or go for a commercially prepared, high quality "wet" food, such as Naturediet, Rocco, Rinti, Lukullus (check out www.zooplus.ie for deals on these in bulk). Do not use any supermarket tinned foods, the "meaty chunks" in these tins are largely made of reconstituted wheat :eek:
Finally from a food point of view... FISH! OILY FISH! Absolutely, positively fantastic for bad skin. Go to Tesco, get tins of pilchards in tomato sauce. Or Aldi/Lidl for sardines.. avoid fish in vegetable oil, opt instead for fish packed in tomato sauce or mineral water. Get this into your itchy Springer every day if you can, it is packed full of stuff that's not only great for skin, it's fab for an ageing brain too! In fact, it can actually help to reverse the signs of mental ageing... how cool is that?!
Be really careful with other stuff like treats, chews etc to make sure they're cereal free. Vegetables, dried meat treats etc are fine. Dentastix, Jumbones, other crunchy treats are off the menu.
Give this 6 weeks minimum.

Has your vet given you a medicated shampoo for your dog (probably Malaseb)? If he has, use it... it's very good. If he hasn't, tell him you want it. It's expensive, but I've found that if you give them a shampoo with a tea-tree shampoo first, then slap on the Malaseb and leave it on for at least 10 mins, the Malaseb goes a lot further.
Your vet should also be able to give you a bottle of Cortavance: this is to stop periodic itching. Often, when you make all these changes, the dog is recovering and the skin looking lots better, but gets the odd itchy spot. He scratches it, and all of a sudden you've a big old sore spot to control. Cortavance spray means you can stop these spots becoming too irritating, allowing the skin to recover.

Good luck OP, I don't envy you. It's a feckin horrible affliction

Fantastic post and some excellent advice! Thanks a million.

The vet gave us that shampoo and we've used it as often as possible. It does work but I find it flares up once more. I see that shampoo as something I should use in combination with the food choices you gave me so as to get a synergistic effect. I'll get on the oily fish in tomato sauce and the likes for sure. Could very easily buy him some chicken as well in either Lidl/Aldi.

He's outside right now as I type this and I can hear him scratching away. He's breaking my heart, the poor soul .

With regards to Dentastix it's funny you mention them he adores them! Guess he's going to have to get used to not having one. Really appreciate the reply. I'll most likely give him a good wash in the bath tomorrow when the mother is out.

God only knows how the little man feels.

Once again thanks to everyone who replied it means a lot!

jsabina

Sorry I haven't read all the advices but I wanted to add my experience.
My previous dog was used to have a lot of problems with skin rush and allergies.
After few years we solved changing his diet!

We started to feed him only a fish good quality kibbles.
In italy was Forza 10, only fish and something else..

It really solved all the issue!

jantheman91

Really appreciate all the help. You guys are awesome and it means a lot to know there are so many dog lovers out there.

As an update:

I've purchased over 20 euro's worth of sardines and mackerel in tomato sauce as well as pro-biotic yoghurts and avocados.

I gave him two tins of sardines mixed thoroughly with a diced avocado and pro-biotic yoghurt. Looked quite funny but I said i'd chance it as he's a good eater. Left the dish out for him and he has spent the past hour licking the ''remains'' from a clearly empty dish.

Will report back in a week with updates. I've the vet calling to the house when he's free to check him out and hopefully to deliver some of the anti-fungal wash we've gotten before.

Thanks

anniehoo

jantheman91 wrote: »

. I've the vet calling to the house when he's free to check him out and hopefully to deliver some of the anti-fungal wash we've gotten before.

Ask them about blood testing! :pac:

Hooked

jantheman91 wrote: »

Really appreciate all the help. You guys are awesome and it means a lot to know there are so many dog lovers out there.

As an update:

I've purchased over 20 euro's worth of sardines and mackerel in tomato sauce as well as pro-biotic yoghurts and avocados.

I gave him two tins of sardines mixed thoroughly with a diced avocado and pro-biotic yoghurt. Looked quite funny but I said i'd chance it as he's a good eater. Left the dish out for him and he has spent the past hour licking the ''remains'' from a clearly empty dish.

Will report back in a week with updates. I've the vet calling to the house when he's free to check him out and hopefully to deliver some of the anti-fungal wash we've gotten before.

Thanks

I haven't read this thread in detail but quickly wanted to add....

I'd personally wash the tomato sauce off the sardines. We feed our lad raw - and his mix includes chicken, red meat, brown rice, carrots, eggs, salmon oil and fish!!!

We use sardines and mackerel - and always wash out the excessive 'sauce' to prevent tummy upset and the runs.

I'd be inclined to look at a raw diet alright - or part raw - as a possible solution (or at least help with) this skin condition...

Raw feeding a year. The dog is in excellent shape! Big meaty brisket bones every now and then for spotless teeth!!!

I hope the diet change helps ye!

DBB

There's no harm in leaving the tomato sauce on the fish... they often love it and it'll not do any harm :-)

OP, there is a remedy which many in dogdom swear by to combat Malasezzia... now I want you to make sure to acknowledge that this is NOT a replacement or to contradict anything the vet tells you, but I'm going to throw it out there:)
A body wash made up of four parts warm water to four parts apple cider vinegar, a couple of spoons of epsom salts, and sponge this over your dog, allowing it to dry in naturally (you can towel dry him, but make sure to keep him inside until he's dry). This mixture seems to be hated by the yeast cells, but as it can dry out the skin, you'll need to back it up, when your dog is dry, with a moisturiser: Aloe vera gel massaged into the skin is very soothing, don't use anything oil based as it heats up and melts into the coat, making a mess and possibly making matters worse.
Whilst I said above that fish is the bizz, don't overdo it! Everything in moderation! If you're making a stew, finely chop up a garlic clove and throw it in... again, garlic is great but must be used in very small doses with dogs.

maggiepip

OP do you know if its OK to give avacados to dogs? Ive always heard you cant but google seems a bit contrdictory over it. Id be interested to know myself if anyone knows.

jantheman91

maggiepip wrote: »

OP do you know if its OK to give avacados to dogs? Ive always heard you cant but google seems a bit contrdictory over it. Id be interested to know myself if anyone knows.

It's like anything really. I've found that my dog has never shown symptoms of a stomach upset and we've fed him a lot of things. Every dog's physiology is different. He seems perfectly fine about 8 hours after. No change in him whatsoever. I've read about avocado's toxicity to dog's but i'm afraid i'm not convinced by the anecdotal evidence I've read.

In terms of the tomato sauce I forgot to say that the fish was in this and I gave it to him!

Thanks again!

http://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-articles/pet-health-toxins/Avocados-and-Pets.aspx

A vet says dogs and cats are unaffected by the oily substance - persin that exists in an avocado. Only risk according to her is it lodging in the oesophagus.

I chop it up thoroughly into tiny little pieces having peeled a huge proportion of the skin off - ruling out the choking hazard.

anniehoo

From the Merck Veterinary Manual (regularly updated and my "go to"):

wrote:

Ingestion of avocado (Persea americana) has been associated with myocardial necrosis in mammals and birds and with sterile mastitis in lactating mammals. Cattle, goats, horses, mice, rabbits, guinea pigs, rats, sheep, budgerigars, canaries, cockatiels, ostriches, chickens, turkeys, and fish are susceptible. Caged birds appear more sensitive to the effects of avocado, while chickens and turkeys appear more resistant. Although an old case report exists of two dogs developing myocardial damage after avocado ingestion, dogs appear to be relatively resistant compared with other species.