Garth Brooks Comeback Special *ALL 5 SHOWS CANCELLED* READ FIRST POST

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

That doesn't make sense. Do three and come back again and do two.

Im sick of it at this stage. They have taken the fun out of it all.

And as for the all 5 or nothing. He was always for the fans and anyone with a ticket should get to see him.

I dont know what way things are done in the US but they sue over everything so they would get licences before and not after.

But this isnt the USA either and its our planning laws here and dcc granted three. He should cop on (but I still love him).

It's better than nothing though. The 3 that were granted gets to go ahead (hopefully) and the other two nights are accommated at a later stage and october is a lovely time of the year too.

miju

At this stage given the quotes below it's no longer just about Garth Brooks, this will ruin a viable profitable company together with the hundreds of casual jobs they give people through the year as well as tax paid to the government.

Cancelled concerts could spell the end for Aiken Promotions

The promoter of Garth Brooks Croke Park concerts says the singer “won’t back down” from his pledge to play five concerts or none. Speaking to ‘The Business’ on RTÉ Radio this morning, Peter Aiken of Aiken Promotions said that when he asked Brooks to consider playing three shows, the country star told him: “You know how I feel.” Aiken added: “I don’t think he’ll back down.”
The promoter said that he has no insurance - as you cannot get insurance without a licence - and therefore his company is set to incur seven-figure costs “easy”, if all five shows are cancelled.

hynesie08

miju wrote: »

At this stage given the quotes below it's no longer just about Garth Brooks, this will ruin a viable profitable company together with the hundreds of casual jobs they give people through the year as well as tax paid to the government.

And we were the scaremongerers for saying the gigs might not get a license?

The_Morrigan

miju wrote: »

At this stage given the quotes below it's no longer just about Garth Brooks, this will ruin a viable profitable company together with the hundreds of casual jobs they give people through the year as well as tax paid to the government.

Just to point out a lot of the 'casual jobs' are filled by unpaid interns (graduates) college students on work placements and volunteers rather than paid staff. The paid staff are mostly made up of contract work to other event management companies (health and safety, security, lighting, sound etc) or drinks companies & local businesses who do the food/drink for events.

There is a serious misconception on the jobs created by these events and festivals.

miju

hynesie08 wrote: »

And we were the scaremongerers for saying the gigs might not get a license?

It's not scaremongering if you understand how the industry works here and abroad its simple fact, whether Garth plays the gigs or not he is still getting paid.

Mrs Garth Brooks

miju wrote: »

At this stage given the quotes below it's no longer just about Garth Brooks, this will ruin a viable profitable company together with the hundreds of casual jobs they give people through the year as well as tax paid to the government.

Fcuking hell

miju

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Just to point out a lot of the 'casual jobs' are filled by unpaid interns (graduates) college students on work placements and volunteers rather than paid staff. The paid staff are mostly made up of contract work to other event management companies (health and safety, security, lighting, sound etc) or drinks companies & local businesses who do the food/drink for events.

There is a serious misconception on the jobs created by these events and festivals.

Sorry so the casual workers by these health and safety, drinks, engineering, stage crews, lighting, food, security are not all real jobs???

As for volunteers, the only volunteers working at a gig are St. John Ambulance, Red Cross etc and even then their units and the organisation gets paid handsomely and use it a serious source of income for training and equipment and thats not including the Event Medic companies on top of that.

News to me given I have worked at them for years and see the same faces who rotate amongst all the gigs in this country. Just because a person does 2 days in Croke Park doesnt mean then after that they arent working in Marley Park and then the O2 and RDS as well.

It's casual because its no set guarentee of hours / work. Getting very tired of people talking about things they know nothing about on this thread

Zardoz

If the gigs are moved to October they would be a far better spectacle provided the weather is decent as it will be dark for the entire duration of the gig so the lighting effects will be far superior.This makes for a far better atmosphere .

The big problem with outdoor gigs in Ireland at this time of the year is that its bright until ten .

hynesie08

miju wrote: »

It's not scaremongering if you understand how the industry works here and abroad its simple fact, whether Garth plays the gigs or not he is still getting paid.

And does he get paid if he just refuses to play?
Don't Aiken have insurance for the first 3 nights?
Won't most of the staff only get paid if they work the gigs?

I have no doubt aiken will lose money from this (I'm guessing €6-8 million) But it won't be enough to sink them.

hynesie08

Zardoz wrote: »

If the gigs are moved to October they would be a far better spectacle provided the weather is decent as it will be dark for the entire duration of the gig so the lighting effects will be far superior.This makes for a far better atmosphere .

The big problem with outdoor gigs in Ireland at this time of the year is that its bright until ten .

Hmmmmmmmmm.......... Thunder rolls with actual thunder would be awesome.

miju

hynesie08 wrote: »

And does he get paid if he just refuses to play?
Don't Aiken have insurance for the first 3 nights?
Won't most of the staff only get paid if they work the gigs?

He will get paid because it's breach of contract its 3 not 5, NO PROMOTER can get insurance for events UNTIL licenses are granted.

And yes staff will only get paid if they work the gigs, no gigs = no jobs = no pay

hynesie08 wrote: »

I have no doubt aiken will lose money from this (I'm guessing €6-8 million) But it won't be enough to sink them.

How much money do you think Aiken have do you know? I will tell you at the end of 2103 they had €4.27m in cash. Going by your figures that would indeed sink them and leave them in the red to the tune of at least €1.73m

Zardoz

hynesie08 wrote: »

Hmmmmmmmmm.......... Thunder rolls with actual thunder would be awesome.

No,no it wouldnt unless you are a masochist who likes to get soaked

The_Morrigan

miju wrote: »

Sorry so the casual workers by these health and safety, drinks, engineering, stage crews, lighting, food, security are not all real jobs???

As for volunteers, the only volunteers working at a gig are St. John Ambulance, Red Cross etc and even then their units and the organisation gets paid handsomely and use it a serious source of income for training and equipment and thats not including the Event Medic companies on top of that.

News to me given I have worked at them for years and see the same faces who rotate amongst all the gigs in this country. Just because a person does 2 days in Croke Park doesnt mean then after that they arent working in Marley Park and then the O2 and RDS as well.

It's casual because its no set guarentee of hours / work. Getting very tired of people talking about things they know nothing about on this thread

I volunteer at events all over the country, gigs, festivals, parades, sports, cultural events etc I've never been paid and I don't work for any of the people you've mentioned. I do run into the same events staff all the time and their 'staff' are made up of a core paid staff and then interns, work placement & volunteers as I've said and these guys are moving from one event to another - just because Aiken are in trouble doesn't mean that all the ancillary companies are out of work as they tend to have a diverse enough base of events, not just gigs.

hynesie08

Zardoz wrote: »

No,no it wouldnt unless you are a masochist who likes to get soaked

Thunder doesn't mean rain.

miju

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I volunteer at events all over the country, gigs, festivals, parades, sports, cultural events

In what area?

the_syco

miju wrote: »

At this stage given the quotes below it's no longer just about Garth Brooks, this will ruin a viable profitable company together with the hundreds of casual jobs they give people through the year as well as tax paid to the government.

Cancelled concerts could spell the end for Aiken Promotions

The promoter of Garth Brooks Croke Park concerts says the singer “won’t back down” from his pledge to play five concerts or none. Speaking to ‘The Business’ on RTÉ Radio this morning, Peter Aiken of Aiken Promotions said that when he asked Brooks to consider playing three shows, the country star told him: “You know how I feel.” Aiken added: “I don’t think he’ll back down.”
The promoter said that he has no insurance - as you cannot get insurance without a licence - and therefore his company is set to incur seven-figure costs “easy”, if all five shows are cancelled.

And yet the company didn't try to get a license back in January?

hynesie08

miju wrote: »

He will get paid because it's breach of contract its 3 not 5, NO PROMOTER can get insurance for events UNTIL licenses are granted.

And yes staff will only get paid if they work the gigs, no gigs = no jobs = no pay

Neither of us have seen the contract so it's pure speculation to say that.
They got the license for 3 gigs so they should get insurance for 3 gigs.
It's not no jobs, It's 2-5 days less work.

How much money do you think Aiken have do you know? I will tell you at the end of 2103 they had €4.27m in cash. Going by your figures that would indeed sink them and leave them in the red to the tune of at least €1.73m

And what profits have they made this year on top of that? In 50+ years of promoting have they never been in the red?

miju

hynesie08 wrote: »

Neither of us have seen the contract so it's pure speculation to say that.

It's industry standard in contracts

hynesie08 wrote: »

They got the license for 3 gigs so they should get insurance for 3 gigs.
It's not no jobs, It's 2-5 days less work.

OK so you are insurance provider. Mr. Aiken rings you up on Monday looking for insurance for the 3 gigs at Croker, in your risk assessment as an insurer knowing there is a large possibility that all are not going ahead will you be insuring him?

hynesie08 wrote: »

And what profits have they made this year on top of that? In 50+ years of promoting have they never been in the red?

Not to the tune of €2m odd no. Sometimes people just dont want to hear basic common sense and facts and aren't satisfied no matter what :rolleyes:

ghostdancer

hynesie08 wrote: »

They got the license for 3 gigs so they should get insurance for 3 gigs.

given that Brooks has said 5 or nothing, plus the residents threatening to go to the High Court to stop all of them, no insurance company with any sense would touch these at present.

j8wk2feszrnpao

miju wrote: »

It's industry standard in contracts

They are in the industry, and they can set the contracts.
Aiken knew it was unlikely that they would get a licence for all 5 dates, yet they proceeded upon that risky assumption. In doing so they have disappointed the fans by building up expectation, sold tickets to gigs that were unlikely to occur, went into a contract (without anyone holding a gun tot heir head) with GB on dates they couldn't guarantee, and placed themselves in financial trouble.

j8wk2feszrnpao

ghostdancer wrote: »

given that Brooks has said 5 or nothing, plus the residents threatening to go to the High Court to stop all of them, no insurance company with any sense would touch these at present.

After the 3 gigs that were already confirmed/licensed by 1D, perhaps an insurance company with any sense (knowing of likely objections) wouldn't have touched it in the first place?

hynesie08

I'm basing everything on Aikens interview today so.

miju wrote: »

It's industry standard in contracts

Aiken said that
Mr Brooks would stand to lose "millions".
How would garth lose money if he's getting paid anyway?

OK so you are insurance provider. Mr. Aiken rings you up on Monday looking for insurance for the 3 gigs at Croker, in your risk assessment as an insurer knowing there is a large possibility that all are not going ahead will you be insuring him?

Aiken said that,
he would not be covered by insurance should the concerts not proceed.
So does he have insurance or?

Not to the tune of €2m odd no. Sometimes people just dont want to hear basic common sense and facts and aren't satisfied no matter what :rolleyes:

I'm just asking questions, But basic common sense would say that aiken knows what he's doing by now and woudn't ride his whole business on one set of concerts.

miju

munstermagic11 wrote: »

They are in the industry, and they can set the contracts.
Aiken knew it was unlikely that they would get a licence for all 5 dates, yet they proceeded upon that risky assumption. In doing so they have disappointed the fans by building up expectation, sold tickets to gigs that were unlikely to occur, went into a contract (without anyone holding a gun tot heir head) with GB on dates they couldn't guarantee, and placed themselves in financial trouble.

Spoken truely like someone who has never been involved in these type of events

j8wk2feszrnpao

miju wrote: »

Spoken truely like someone who has never been involved in these type of events

True, I'm not. Yet I could see that this coming from the start.
And at least I'm not pretending that I'm involved in it.

miju

munstermagic11 wrote: »

True, I'm not. Yet I could see that this coming from the start.
And at least I'm not pretending that I'm involved in it.

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

j8wk2feszrnpao

From someone with experience and involvement in these type of events:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/how-a-little-bit-of-conversation-could-restore-harmony-to-the-angry-chorus-in-brooks-row-30408326.html

WHAT has happened with regard to the five Garth Brooks concerts in Croke Park is a shock to everyone. I am very surprised that the eventual outcome wasn't flagged months ago and something done to ensure that it didn't come to this.

There is no doubt that five shows in Croke Park, on top of the three already played by One Direction, 'intensifies' the planning conditions at the venue. There can be little doubt that this was going to cause concern for Dublin City Council and that when such problems arise, as they do arise, I am surprised that there wasn't engagement between the various interests long before now.

MOD EDIT: SNIP.
Quoting entire articles is a breach of copyright*. The rest of the article can be read by following the above link, and it is an interesting read.

*At least we think it is, the copyright waters are very muddied.

M11 EDIT: Thanks OldGoat, apologies.

super_furry

Mountcharles sums it up perfectly. Aiken and the GAA never engaged with the locals, the council or the licensing system and were convinced they could bully and bluster their way through the whole process. It's the whole 'sure it'll be grand mindset that has them screwed now.

dublin99

Am I right to say that the fans for the first 3 nights are in a different position in terms of their rights (if any) than the fans of the last 2 nights if all 5 shows are cancelled?

The fans of Mon/Tues bought tickets "subject to licence" and licence was not granted.

However the fans for the first 3 nights should have more recourse as the licence was granted and it's the promoter/artist cancelling ie breaking the contract.

Aiken said that they knew all along residents might take them to court - is that why they left it so late for the application so that there'd be little time for legal action? Did they assume they would be able to "sort out" any legal proceedings by having the resources to retain/pay for heavy weight legals in court?

They also said that they'd not anticipated problem with the licence. But on what basis, if they knew there was an agreement for 3 concerts? If they had legal advice (which apparently they did from a leading firm) that assured them they'd be ok, than surely they can sue their lawyers if they acted on their advice and incur losses as a result....

miju

Looks like 5 nights might going ahead afterall thanks to SF seeing as how they are in control of the council after last eleections

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-to-table-emergency-motion-on-garth-brooks-concerts-635450.html

Mrs Garth Brooks

miju wrote: »

Looks like 5 nights might going ahead afterall thanks to SF seeing as how they are in control of the council after last eleections

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-to-table-emergency-motion-on-garth-brooks-concerts-635450.html

Then you have some residents coming out and threatening legal action. They're holding a protest on monday.

Also the residents in favour of the concerts are holding are protest at the same time. Seems to be alot more on this side.

Interesting to see what happens.