Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

New Phonewatch functionality

Options
  • 10-12-2013 10:33am
    #1
    Merrion1968
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭


    Hello all,
    I noticed that Phonewatch have increased the functionality of their system by including cameras in their motion sensors. These sensors 'react to temperature fluctuations caused by a person moving around. Once triggered, it takes photographs which are transmitted to our Monitoring Control Centre'. The control centre then contacts the client to confirm if the alarm is real. If it is then they contact the relevant keyholder or the Guards.

    Therefore the control centre conducts the alarm verification check that the Guards are always harking on about and without the need of a keyholder to visit the property to confirm the alarm. Sounds pretty good to me.

    Does anyone have any experience with this system?

    According to one of their sales team this type of alarm is popular in Scandanavian countries i.e. a system less reliant on window sensors and more on using cameras to verify genuine alarms.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Merrion1968 wrote: »
    Hello all,
    I noticed that Phonewatch have increased the functionality of their system by including cameras in their motion sensors. These sensors 'react to temperature fluctuations caused by a person moving around. Once triggered, it takes photographs which are transmitted to our Monitoring Control Centre'. The control centre then contacts the client to confirm if the alarm is real. If it is then they contact the relevant keyholder or the Guards.

    Therefore the control centre conducts the alarm verification check that the Guards are always harking on about and without the need of a keyholder to visit the property to confirm the alarm. Sounds pretty good to me.

    Does anyone have any experience with this system?

    According to one of their sales team this type of alarm is popular in Scandanavian countries i.e. a system less reliant on window sensors and more on using cameras to verify genuine alarms.

    I think this system should be aimed more at commercial premises rather than residential but in saying that, the big let down with this system is it only communicates to the monitoring station through GSM which can be easily blocked. I would have to stay away from it for this reason alone.
    They say the GSM is polled once a day, that is no good as if the systems GSM is blocked they have no way of receiving alarm activation's plus the pictures to verify the alarm event.

    In Ireland we protect the perimeter of a property. Doors and windows. It is better to do this as an intruder has to be in your property before an alarm will be activated by means of walking in front of an alarm system.

    Most intruders are opportunists, I am sure most of them know about P.W. new approach. With a camera if you cover your face its very hard if at all possible to identify the intruder. They will get a picture of an intruder in your property but a key holder will still need to go to the premises to let them in.

    www.altor.ie



  • Options
    #3
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    To clarify it's now Phone watch. No connection to Eircom.
    Any customers I have discussed this with are totally against having internal cameras in a residential situation. Giving control room staff the ability to view inside a private home is just not right IMO.


  • Options
    #4
    Merrion1968
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Merrion1968


    altor wrote: »
    I think this system should be aimed more at commercial premises rather than residential but in saying that, the big let down with this system is it only communicates to the monitoring station through GSM which can be easily blocked. I would have to stay away from it for this reason alone.
    They say the GSM is polled once a day, that is no good as if the systems GSM is blocked they have no way of receiving alarm activation's plus the pictures to verify the alarm event.

    I had the same concern but the salesperson reassured me that there has only been one case recorded for Phonewatch where a GSM was successfully used to block a signal.
    altor wrote: »
    Most intruders are opportunists, I am sure most of them know about P.W. new approach. With a camera if you cover your face its very hard if at all possible to identify the intruder. They will get a picture of an intruder in your property but a key holder will still need to go to the premises to let them in.

    The purpose of the camera is that the control center identifies that an intruder is in the house and calls the Guards themselves. Therefore there is no need for a keyholder to visit the property. The camera is not to identify the person per se, its just to identify that a person is in your house when the alarm has been triggered.

    The salesperson also claimed that the cameras can only be activated and seen by control center personnel when the alarm is actually triggered.


  • Options
    #5
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Merrion1968 wrote: »
    I had the same concern but the salesperson reassured me that there has only been one case recorded for Phonewatch where a GSM was successfully used to block a signal.

    That's an interesting change. Up to recently its been none.
    Its also an impossible claim to back up one way or another. Unless a jammer is left behind, its virtually impossible to say for certain why a signal didn't go through to a station.
    Merrion1968 wrote: »

    The purpose of the camera is that the control center identifies that an intruder is in the house and calls the Guards themselves. Therefore there is no need for a keyholder to visit the property. The camera is not to identify the person per se, its just to identify that a person is in your house when the alarm has been triggered.

    The salesperson also claimed that the cameras can only be activated and seen by control center personnel when the alarm is actually triggered.

    The connection is still there regardless of how it can be initiated. I've seen plenty of CCTV systems with various back doors.
    Either way , would you be happy with you or your mrs , or other members of your family, jumping up in the middle of the night due to a false alarm knowing ye are on screen in a control room and being recorded.:eek:


  • Options
    #6
    fred funk }{
    Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    I believe this is a massive mistake by Phonewatch. As discussed already, the idea that some fella in their control room can view images of you in your home is not something that will sit easy with people.

    And with every new system to be monitored via GSM its a serious security issue. Before an intruder equipped with a GSM blocker would have to know that you had a GSM dialler in the first place but now they know for sure you do.

    And as we know, most of Phonewatch's systems don't have working outside bells so a burglar could quite easily break into a property without anyone being notified, be it, the central station or the neighbours through the outside bell.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Won't work out well for phonewatch .. They're basically advertising how they're systems can be defeated .
    Every new phonewatch system is advertising that it uses gsm since phonewatch no longer use a phone line .. If I was to go ahead with it I'd tell them I don't want a bell outside.


  • Options
    #8
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    Won't work out well for phonewatch .. They're basically advertising how they're systems can be defeated .
    Every new phonewatch system is advertising that it uses gsm since phonewatch no longer use a phone line .. If I was to go ahead with it I'd tell them I don't want a bell outside.

    Either way why would you order a product that you know is so vulnerable?


  • Options
    #9
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Either way why would you order a product that you know is so vulnerable?


    All systems have weaknesses ... But you'd have to advertise the method of communication by which your system alerts you ... Phonewatch are proudly doing this .
    For example you can't tell by looking at a house if it uses GSM ,radio , IP or a landline unless you google the company and see what they're advertising .


  • Options
    #10
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Merrion1968 wrote: »
    I had the same concern but the salesperson reassured me that there has only been one case recorded for Phonewatch where a GSM was successfully used to block a signal.

    There sales people will tell you what you want to hear.
    It is a change in there response to the question being asked.

    Posted by another user.
    Merrion1968 wrote: »
    The purpose of the camera is that the control center identifies that an intruder is in the house and calls the Guards themselves. Therefore there is no need for a keyholder to visit the property. The camera is not to identify the person per se, its just to identify that a person is in your house when the alarm has been triggered.

    Who lets the guards into the property?
    A verified alarm still requires a key holder to attend the property.
    Merrion1968 wrote: »
    The salesperson also claimed that the cameras can only be activated and seen by control center personnel when the alarm is actually triggered.

    I would honestly say this is the case. I cant see them being able to access the cameras unless there is a alarm activation and the camera is triggered.

    www.altor.ie



  • Options
    #11
    drunkenbarney
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭drunkenbarney


    I agree that people wont like pictures being taken inside their home and total reliance on gsm is a mistake. This technology is best suited for commercial.

    They are charging 35 per month for their service!!!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭altor


    drunkenbarney wrote: »
    I agree that people wont like pictures being taken inside their home and total reliance on gsm is a mistake. This technology is best suited for commercial.

    They are charging 35 per month for their service!!!

    It is a good idea but not for residential. To rely on a GSM is a mistake with most jamming devices aimed at commercial properties.

    www.altor.ie



  • Options
    #13
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    altor wrote: »
    It is a good idea but not for residential. To rely on a GSM is a mistake with most jamming devices aimed at commercial properties.

    They'd need to know that your using a gsm to start off with. Unless you advertise it it's not really a HUGE threat .


  • Options
    #14
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    That's the thing... All PW jobs are now GSM only. So it's very easy to know.


  • Options
    #15
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Are they allowed to advertise their alarms weakness ? Is there not a standard in place to prevent this ?


  • Options
    #16
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    According to the standards a GSM is an acceptable form of alarm transmission.


  • Options
    #17
    tonkpills
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭tonkpills


    I assume this is just a branded system. Anyone an idea of what the make and model is?


  • Options
    #18
    Huntthe
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    The pir takes 3 quick pictures when activated and sends them to the alarm centre. It is not a live stream. The system is sold with a sensor for the front door and can be sold with more on request. The gardai do not require a keyholder to attend for a verified alarm .The jammers stuff is rubbish.


  • Options
    #19
    Huntthe
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    tonkpills wrote: »
    I assume this is just a branded system. Anyone an idea of what the make and model is?

    Honeywell domonial


  • Options
    #20
    fred funk }{
    Registered Users Posts: 6,827 ✭✭✭fred funk }{


    Huntthe wrote: »
    The pir takes 3 quick pictures when activated and sends them to the alarm centre. It is not a live stream. The system is sold with a sensor for the front door and can be sold with more on request. The gardai do not require a keyholder to attend for a verified alarm .The jammers stuff is rubbish.

    Lol!!


  • Options
    #21
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Huntthe wrote: »
    The pir takes 3 quick pictures when activated and sends them to the alarm centre. It is not a live stream. The system is sold with a sensor for the front door and can be sold with more on request. The gardai do not require a keyholder to attend for a verified alarm .The jammers stuff is rubbish.


    You must work for them ? The Garda require a key holder to attend to allow them entry to the property.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭kub


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    You must work for them ? The Garda require a key holder to attend to allow them entry to the property.

    That would certainly verify my own opinion that PW are more of a bloody marketing company than a security one.

    Has anyone got that Garda alarm policy publication from 2004? If so you might send it onto PW.


  • Options
    #23
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Sounds like someone is shilling.
    This what your looking for?
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/78653/298320.pdf

    Its nice to hear some of the lines the reps are coming out with.:rolleyes:


  • Options
    #24
    rossit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭rossit


    Huntthe wrote: »
    The pir takes 3 quick pictures when activated and sends them to the alarm centre. It is not a live stream. The system is sold with a sensor for the front door and can be sold with more on request. The gardai do not require a keyholder to attend for a verified alarm .The jammers stuff is rubbish.
    well bud tell us why this alarm stuff is rubbish


  • Options
    #25
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The usual line from anyone selling GSMs is ahh jammers are no risk they have never been used on a domestic property.
    I wonder what line they use if they are selling a commercial or industrial system?
    How do you prove a jammer was used unless it was left behind?:confused:


  • Options
    #26
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    It's a shame really .. The systems phonewatch have been using are reliable but unfortunately they dumb them down to make a quick buck. They give the systems bad press.
    What do you think of when someone mentions the concord or simon panels ? How come they can cut corners on important features like jam detect but any other company would have their license removed and be plastered In the newspaper as fraudsters ?


Advertisement