Young JRT with Arthritis :(

OldNotWIse

Our Jack Russell Terrier is approximatey 4 years old and never had any health problems before a collision with a large dog in the park left her with a torn cruciate. When we took her for assessment, we were told of the option of surgery but as she is less than 10kg, conservative treatment was the preferred route. She improved but still favours the leg when walking (will hop every second stride when walking fast..walking slowly she will have a normal gait). Anyway I got tired watching her hop and waiting for her to improve so took her back for another assessment. XRay showed that cruciate had stabilised and surgery was therefore not necessary, but vet suggested arthritis "may have set in" I feel wracked with guilt now. If I had insisted on the surgery perhaps this would not have happened! She is so young, and I can't bear the thought that I might have condemned her to a life of hopping because I went for the conservative option!

They also said she appears to have a pip sized bone spur on one knee. I dont know if this is the cause of the hopping - maybe there is no arthritis as she does not appear to be in pain.

Has anyone any experience with this kind of orthopedic injury? I am assessing her diet now to try to include the main supplements that are used to combat inflammation and support joints - krill oil, glucosamine etc. I am also considering hydrotherapy but she hates the water with a passion!

I want my happy, bouncy little dog back and will do anything to get there

tk123

Tbh being told she may have arthritis wouldn't be good enough for me and I'd be getting a second opinion to know either way. I say that having gotten a second opinion when my dog started having joint problems as a pup. We ended up heading down to Gilabbey Vets in Cork and seeing Shane Guerin - the best ortho vet in the country and he fixed my dogs legs

OldNotWIse

tk123 wrote: »

Tbh being told she may have arthritis wouldn't be good enough for me and I'd be getting a second opinion to know either way. I say that having gotten a second opinion when my dog started having joint problems as a pup. We ended up heading down to Gilabbey Vets in Cork and seeing Shane Guerin - the best ortho vet in the country and he fixed my dogs legs

Right, it'll be after Christmas by the time I can afford it but that's definitely something I will do. I feel so guilty all the time now. I had thought about taking her to Billy McCarthy in Baldoyle - he saved our cat's leg when standard vets could only offer amputation - but I was quoted 800 for the surgery and I just didnt have it. I also though that a cruciate tear was a common complaint, and might heal. If I thought even for a second that she could get arthritis at such a young age I would have sold myself to get the funds together!

tk123

It's tough when you're faced with that kind of decision trying to decide what to do and then waiting to see how it heals etc. My situation was different in that my dogs legs were deformed and one vet said there was no point in operating so we had nothing to lose by getting a second opinion. I've no doubt that my dog would be dead if I had of listened to that first vet.

OldNotWIse

tk123 wrote: »

It's tough when you're faced with that kind of decision trying to decide what to do and then waiting to see how it heals etc. My situation was different in that my dogs legs were deformed and one vet said there was no point in operating so we had nothing to lose by getting a second opinion. I've no doubt that my dog would be dead if I had of listened to that first vet.

Yeah its hard to know. I was worried about the risk of arthritis setting in if she did have the surgery - I never imagined it could happen if she didnt get it. Also worried about the anaesthetic as she is so small. The day she was sedated for her XRay I worried myself physically sick and had to leave early :rolleyes: I am thinking of trying that vet you mentioned. I'll have the car in January and can make a 2 day trip out of it. Bring her down and see whats what. She loves roadtrips anyway

Layinghen

Oldnotwise the leg that she hops, is it a back or a front leg?

OldNotWIse

Layinghen wrote: »

Oldnotwise the leg that she hops, is it a back or a front leg?

It's the back right. Lux patella? I had thought that but seemed to coincidental with collision?

Layinghen

Yes. The famous Jack Russell hop
They all seem to do that little hop when they are running. Some times you see it sometimes you don't. Was hoping it might just be that.

OldNotWIse

Layinghen wrote: »

Yes. The famous Jack Russell hop
They all seem to do that little hop when they are running. Some times you see it sometimes you don't. Was hoping it might just be that.

Me too. The fact that she has a bone spur now suggests arthritis alright but all the vet did was give is anti inflammatories for her. I'm more interested in a long term solution, not just medicating her, and certainly not for the rest of her life

Layinghen

Well Gillabbey Vets have a fantastic reputation so getting her seen by them is a very good decision. I really feel for you as worrying about your pet when they can't tell you whats wrong is terrible.

OldNotWIse

Layinghen wrote: »

Well Gillabbey Vets have a fantastic reputation so getting her seen by them is a very good decision. I really feel for you as worrying about your pet when they can't tell you whats wrong is terrible.

I know, I feel terrible! She's so young! We nursed a terminally ill dog for two years just before we got the JRT and I think I still have "issues" in that area lol

boomerang

OldNotWise, even with surgery to correct a torn/ruptured CCL, some arthritis is still inevitable. So please don't beat yourself up.

ETA: Billy Mc Carthy is equally as good an ortho surgeon as the Gilabbey vets, but not so expensive. Ditto on UCD VH. For any of the three, you will need a referral letter.

TooManyDogs

I'd be getting a second opinion for sure on that arthritis diagnosis.

I do agility and agility dogs are notorious for ACL injuries. One of my dogs had a partially torn ACL this year and as she's only 3.3kg I opted not to do the surgery and rehab her instead, and one of the primary reasons is in my experience that as soon as you operate on the knee and open up that essentially closed system you're starting arthritis.

Now the rehab was very long, she was crated constantly for 6 weeks, and crated for quite a bit for another 4 weeks. She did hydrotherapy 4 days a week after week 3 to strengthen up the muscles around the ACL but also to help her luxating patellas.

What rehab did you do after your JRT was diagnosed with ACL?

boomerang

TooManyDogs wrote: »

as soon as you operate on the knee and open up that essentially closed system you're starting arthritis.

From what I understand, it is not the operation that causes arthritis. Once the ligament has been damaged there will always be some degree of instability in the joint, hence the arthritis. The aim of the CCL repair is to reduce that instability.

OldNotWIse

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I'd be getting a second opinion for sure on that arthritis diagnosis.

I do agility and agility dogs are notorious for ACL injuries. One of my dogs had a partially torn ACL this year and as she's only 3.3kg I opted not to do the surgery and rehab her instead, and one of the primary reasons is in my experience that as soon as you operate on the knee and open up that essentially closed system you're starting arthritis.

Now the rehab was very long, she was crated constantly for 6 weeks, and crated for quite a bit for another 4 weeks. She did hydrotherapy 4 days a week after week 3 to strengthen up the muscles around the ACL but also to help her luxating patellas.


What rehab did you do after your JRT was diagnosed with ACL?

I'll be honest we didnt crate her. We just had her on lead only walks for toilet breaks.

OldNotWIse

boomerang wrote: »

OldNotWise, even with surgery to correct a torn/ruptured CCL, some arthritis is still inevitable. So please don't beat yourself up.

ETA: Billy Mc Carthy is equally as good an ortho surgeon as the Gilabbey vets, but not so expensive. Ditto on UCD VH. For any of the three, you will need a referral letter.

Do you think she can improve on what she is now? If she has successful surgery?

TooManyDogs

boomerang wrote: »

From what I understand, it is not the operation that causes arthritis. Once the ligament has been damaged there will always be some degree of instability in the joint, hence the arthritis. The aim of the CCL repair is to reduce that instability.

I understand that, but from the dogs I've seen the ones who have the surgery get arthritis far more quickly than the ones who don't. The ones who don't have surgery will get arthritis eventually but the dogs who get surgery seem to get some degree of arthritis starting within 6 months - 1 year.



OP I'm stunned that your vet didn't go through proper rehab options for crutiate injuries, surgery or no surgery all dogs need strict rehab I think time for a second opinion.

I used a canine physiotherapist and a canine massage therapist on Púca to help along with strict crate rest and hydrotherapy

tk123

boomerang wrote: »

OldNotWise, even with surgery to correct a torn/ruptured CCL, some arthritis is still inevitable. So please don't beat yourself up.

ETA: Billy Mc Carthy is equally as good an ortho surgeon as the Gilabbey vets, but not so expensive. Ditto on UCD VH. For any of the three, you will need a referral letter.

Cara Vet would be another recommendation - far better than Billy Mc by all accounts and probably most affordable. It was UCD who told us not to bother operating so not a fan of them.

boomerang

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I understand that, but from the dogs I've seen the ones who have the surgery get arthritis far more quickly than the ones who don't. The ones who don't have surgery will get arthritis eventually but the dogs who get surgery seem to get some degree of arthritis starting within 6 months - 1 year.

Whether surgery is performed or not, all dogs who rupture or tear the CCL can expect some arthritis in the joint - it's a question of how much. The surgery does not aggravate arthritis. There are lots of factors at play, including:

• the age of the dog when injured and if there are already arthritic changes
• to what extent the owners restrict the dog's exercise before diagnosis
• how soon after the rupture/tear the surgery is performed
• how carefully the owner adheres to the aftercare instructions
• if the dog is over-weight

My collie (16kg) ruptured her cruciate ligament and had surgery. Now, I caught it straight away as I saw the incident happen, and got her seen the same day and scheduled for surgery within 48 hrs. I was extremely careful with 1) her aftercare for 10wks post op and 2) keeping her weight under control. She very, very rarely went lame on that leg after the op and lived another six years after the surgery.

boomerang

tk123 wrote: »

Cara Vet would be another recommendation - far better than Billy Mc by all accounts and probably most affordable. It was UCD who told us not to bother operating so not a fan of them.

UCD would probably be a third of the price of Gilabbey, and have the same expertise. Don't get me wrong, when my collie had haemangiosarcoma she was referred to Gilabbey for emergency surgery and they were excellent. My other collie was referred to UCDVH when she was dying of cancer, and she got excellent care there.

I just don't see the need to drag the OP down to Cork when she has excellent (and most likely cheaper) ortho referral practices closer to home, including UCDVH and Billy, who I'm also familiar with through our local rescue. He has the same ortho experience as Shane Guerin.

TooManyDogs

boomerang wrote: »

Whether surgery is performed or not, all dogs who rupture or tear the CCL can expect some arthritis in the joint - it's a question of how much. The surgery does not aggravate arthritis.

All I can tell you is the correlation I saw with surgery v's no surgery, and what my ortho vet said her experience of it was. Not looking to get into an argument over it.

boomerang

Me neither, but I don't think expressing a negative opinion on something beyond both your and my expertise is beneficial.