Beyonce World Tour 2014

horseburger

poundhound wrote: »

Re "I find at gigs, that taking a photo at the start and end, is a handy way of being able to record the length of time of a gig. ".

Or you could look at your watch?

It is very hard to remember that kind of detail later on, by just looking at my watch at the gig, without being able to use something to record it at that moment

(otherwise I'd be writing it down in a notebook or into my phone:D)

The length of any gigs I attend is just something I like to record, and I find that using the time on the photos is a very handy way of doing it.

Dontfadeaway

skeg16 wrote: »

The concert on Sat night was very good but I felt like it was lacking more upbeat songs. I have listened to her new album tons of times and its a great album but when you are on a night out you really do need to keep entertained and moving/singing etc. I found myself only really dancing to 3/4 songs, the like flawless (best song of the night), drunk on love etc. Don't get me wrong she is a talent and I'm glad to of seen her but I was expecting to be blown away. When I went to Rihanna last year I thought she was brilliant, she made the whole atmosphere amazing, everyone was buzzing, it was like a massive nightclub!!

Also I was very pissed off with JayZ not coming out, he supported her during most of the Europe tour and even in the UK a few nights before coming to Ireland but didn't bother to come out for us, and then I see him swanning around Phoenix park.....disappointing.

No he didn't. He did London.

horseburger

Tasden wrote: »

She was really good. A lot of people beforehand were saying the show was very "different" and "not very beyonce", I think if you hadn't heard/seen much of her new album you would hold that opinion but it was pretty much what I expected give or take a few things. I got right up the front (so many people collapsing/fainting) and to say she's as beautiful as you'd expect is an understatement, my god the woman is perfect!

hi Tasden

just wondering, I'm guessing last night's set was the same as Tuesday.

I understand that they started at a similar time last night to Tuesday?

Tasden

horseburger wrote: »

hi Tasden

just wondering, I'm guessing last night's set was the same as Tuesday.

I understand that they started at a similar time last night to Tuesday?

The staff guys (I dunno what they're called ) that stand at the barrier near the stage were saying she started at quarter past nine on the Tuesday, think it was half nine last night but could be wrong on that, but it was definitely after quarter past nine

horseburger

Tasden wrote: »

The staff guys (I dunno what they're called ) that stand at the barrier near the stage were saying she started at quarter past nine on the Tuesday, think it was half nine last night but could be wrong on that, but it was definitely after quarter past nine

thanks,

it sounds like it was the same length of show as Tuesday. (the setlist isn't yet listed on setlist.fm for the 3rd and 4th Dublin shows)

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/beyonce/2014/the-o2-dublin-ireland-13c2e129.html

On Tuesday night, she started 8 minutes later than the guys at the barrier stated!:)

sporina

oh now that the gigs are over i can air what I want without spoiling it for anyone..

the only -ve thing that I have to say is about her performance for partition…
I think it was kind of cheap/slutty - nothing classy about girating on a horse like prop…

I am not on the feminism bandwagon - I think Beyonce is an incredible artist - I do not care whether or not she is an advocate for feminism.. but if she is trying to be an advocate - well then this performance does not sync well with that…

Celebrating the female form is great by me - and B does it well - but the girating crosses a line over to the red light district for me..

Tasden

sporina wrote: »

oh now that the gigs are over i can air what I want without spoiling it for anyone..

the only -ve thing that I have to say is about her performance for partition…
I think it was kind of cheap/slutty - nothing classy about girating on a horse like prop…

I am not on the feminism bandwagon - I think Beyonce is an incredible artist - I do not care whether or not she is an advocate for feminism.. but if she is trying to be an advocate - well then this performance does not sync well with that…

Celebrating the female form is great by me - and B does it well - but the girating crosses a line over to the red light district for me..

She does this in the album video too though doesn't she? Or maybe I just remember it from another show?

I think the whole point is that feminists can like and enjoy sex and be sexual too, hence the whole big lebowski speech in partition.

sporina

Tasden wrote: »

She does this in the album video too though doesn't she? Or maybe I just remember it from another show?

I think the whole point is that feminists can like and enjoy sex and be sexual too, hence the whole big lebowski speech in partition.

yeah i think that it is from the video - had not seen it - like i said, not a massive fan - just wanted to see her once..

nevertheless, i think it crossed a line - no one ever said that feminists did not like sex. Feminism is about equality for men and women - ecominicaly, socially and politically! There is nothing about sex there. If a guy did the equivalent of what she did on stage with the prop - he would be called a perv…

If you see a man and woman getting it on in an alleyway, you do not think "oh she is a feminist - she likes sex" you think - get a room you too..

some might say she was a slut - he is a gigalo

I say - get a room..

era eitherway - the girating did not sit well with me - i respect her celebration of the female form - and curves too -but partition is a step over the line for me

Tasden

sporina wrote: »

yeah i think that it is from the video - had not seen it - like i said, not a massive fan - just wanted to see her once..

nevertheless, i think it crossed a line - no one ever said that feminists did not like sex. Feminism is about equality for men and women - ecominicaly, socially and politically! There is nothing about sex there. If a guy did the equivalent of what she did on stage with the prop - he would be called a perv…

If you see a man and woman getting it on in an alleyway, you do not think "oh she is a feminist - she likes sex" you think - get a room you too..

some might say she was a slut - he is a gigalo

I say - get a room..

era eitherway - the girating did not sit well with me - i respect her celebration of the female form - and curves too -but partition is a step over the line for me

The BL quote (well similar lines in french) is what that refers to, the whole ridiculous idea that feminists don't like sex. That's her argument, that just because she is sexual it doesn't mean she doesn't support feminism, they're separate issues and she can do both.

Da Shins Kelly

Her brand of feminism is quite modern - it's possible to be more than one kind of woman at once. You can be a mother, a wife, an entertainer, or whatever you want. You don't need to be one or the other.

Also, there is plenty of sex politics in feminism. Absolutely loads of it. There are certain factions of feminism that go against sexualising yourself, under the opinion that it's just exposing yourself to the "male gaze". In the 80s, there was a push-back against this, where feminists started promoting a sex-positive brand of feminism where sexual freedom and expression was linked to women's freedom at large, and sought to challenge the patriarchal control of sexuality and the double standards in relation to male and female sexuality. It's a big and ongoing debate in feminism. Furthermore, I think that there are plenty of people who don't know much about feminism who would think that being a feminist automatically means that you're not as free sexually. This sex-positive feminism is obviously the brand of feminism that Beyoncé is touting.

Anyway, to my mind feminism is about women having the freedom to be or do whatever they want. If Beyoncé wants to get up onstage and do a raunchy routine to a raunchy song, then more power to her. It's because of feminism that she can do that and be in total control of it. It's anti-feminism if anything to say that she can't do that or that it's "crossing the line over to the red light district" (which sounds a little like slut shaming to me).

sporina

Tasden wrote: »

The BL quote (well similar lines in french) is what that refers to, the whole ridiculous idea that feminists don't like sex. That's her argument, that just because she is sexual it doesn't mean she doesn't support feminism, they're separate issues and she can do both.

no one ever said that feminists do not like sex; they just don't like me treated as sex objects and seen as a means of reproduction and housework.. we can do everything equally as well as men - and deserve the respect to do so..

however her video/performance breaths the notion of sexual exploitation..

sporina

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Her brand of feminism is quite modern - it's possible to be more than one kind of woman at once. You can be a mother, a wife, an entertainer, or whatever you want. You don't need to be one or the other.

Also, there is plenty of sex politics in feminism. Absolutely loads of it. There are certain factions of feminism that go against sexualising yourself, under the opinion that it's just exposing yourself to the "male gaze". In the 80s, there was a push-back against this, where feminists started promoting a sex-positive brand of feminism where sexual freedom and expression was linked to women's freedom at large, and sought to challenge the patriarchal control of sexuality and the double standards in relation to male and female sexuality. It's a big and ongoing debate in feminism. Furthermore, I think that there are plenty of people who don't know much about feminism who would think that being a feminist automatically means that you're not as free sexually. This sex-positive feminism is obviously the brand of feminism that Beyoncé is touting.

Anyway, to my mind feminism is about women having the freedom to be or do whatever they want. If Beyoncé wants to get up onstage and do a raunchy routine to a raunchy song, then more power to her. It's because of feminism that she can do that and be in total control of it. It's anti-feminism if anything to say that she can't do that or that it's "crossing the line over to the red light district" (which sounds a little like slut shaming to me).

jesus wept..

next thing miley will make some once off declaration for feminism on stage and will be applauded for her exploits and men in any to date adverse sexual situation will be saying that they are expressing their sexual freedom - in accordance with new feminism..

legal definition:
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.


These new feministic movements are what takes away the credibility of the above..

and the raunchy vid/moves in partition is in slut territory - looked cheap.. not classy or empowering.. and my makes friends agree - they said - oh i would do her - not, wow go beyonce - you are so powerful.. and i bet they are not alone

Tasden

sporina wrote: »

no one ever said that feminists do not like sex; they just don't like me treated as sex objects and seen as a means of reproduction and housework.. we can do everything equally as well as men - and deserve the respect to do so..

however her video/performance breaths the notion of sexual exploitation..

You may not have experienced that way of thinking but plenty of people assume feminists aren't sexual, just because you personally don't feel that way or are smart enough to realise that its a ridiculous notion doesn't mean that the misconception doesn't exist and isn't widespread. The issue wouldn't need to be addressed as often as it is if the idea wasn't accepted by some people.

And I think the whole idea that her being sexual is a form of "exploitation" is kind of what she's getting at by using the Ted talk by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, "We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are."- if a guy did it we'd talk about it being in bad taste or a little too far yet when she does it we question her stance on feminism and her role in society etc.

Tbh, analysing her songs is pretty much like analysing an inanimate object, you can find meaning in anything even when its not there, and then apply it to an argument, but I think she was pretty blatant with the samples she used to convey her stance on feminism and sexuality.

Tasden

sporina wrote: »

jesus wept..

next thing miley will make some once off declaration for feminism on stage and will be applauded for her exploits and men in any to date adverse sexual situation will be saying that they are expressing their sexual freedom - in accordance with new feminism..

legal definition:
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.


These new feministic movements are what takes away the credibility of the above..

and the raunchy vid/moves in partition is in slut territory - looked cheap.. not classy or empowering.. and my makes friends agree - they said - oh i would do her - not, wow go beyonce - you are so powerful.. and i bet they are not alone

Not understanding your reference to miley and men tbh....

How on earth does being sexual undermine or take away from feminism? Seriously? Does a male performer discredit feminism when he takes off his shirt and body rolls provocatively and sings about "making love" to a woman? Or is it only when an attractive woman does it?

And once again you're missing the point, she can be feminist AND sexual. They're not connected, she's not claiming it to be. There is no correlation between how sexual she is and where she stands in relation to feminism, she can want equality for women and still want to express her sexuality. You're saying "nobody says feminists dont like sex", yet you're still assuming that you can't be overtly sexual and feminist at the same time. Which is exactly the point she is addressing.

Da Shins Kelly

sporina wrote: »

jesus wept..

next thing miley will make some once off declaration for feminism on stage and will be applauded for her exploits and men in any to date adverse sexual situation will be saying that they are expressing their sexual freedom - in accordance with new feminism..

legal definition:
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.


These new feministic movements are what takes away the credibility of the above..

and the raunchy vid/moves in partition is in slut territory - looked cheap.. not classy or empowering.. and my makes friends agree - they said - oh i would do her - not, wow go beyonce - you are so powerful.. and i bet they are not alone

Slut-shaming is completely anti-feminist. It's like that excerpt from the Chimamanda Ngozi speech (who is a fantastic advocate for feminism) that argues against the notion that "women can't be sexual beings in the ways that boys are". It's fine for men to to be open and free about their sexuality, but as soon as a woman does it, she's a "slut". There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman being a prostitute or a stripper or a porn star or simply being promiscuous in her personal life if she's in total control of it. If Beyoncé wants to get up onstage and be sexy, she's perfectly entitled to do that. It's one of the perfect examples of why we still need feminism - this notion that women are crossing some invisible "line" if they embrace their sexuality in a way that makes some people uncomfortable. What line? Whose line? And who is anyone to say what she can or can't do? You're talking about the social equality of the sexes. That's what we're getting at right here - sex politics. The notion that it's not okay for women to behave in certain ways is something that plays into bigger, more dangerous cultural notions at large. But, sure, it's fine for Justin Timberlake or Usher or whoever to put on a front that he's 100% sexually available at all times or for rappers to brag about the amount of women they have had. They're men.

You're completely deluded if you think sex politics and double standards with regards to male and female sexuality is not part of this "social equality" you're talking about. Men tend to have a complete monopoly on sexuality - they can do whatever they want without anyone batting an eyelid, and you certainly wouldn't hear of men being treated in the same patronizing way women do. As such, the idea that women should be able to do whatever they want too without people drawing lines and calling them "sluts" is hugely important to the feminist movement and women being in control of their bodies and sexuality.

So what if Beyoncé wants to get up onstage and do a sexy routine? She's completely in control of what's happening when she does that, it's not as though she's being coerced onstage and forced into doing something she wouldn't otherwise do. She is supposedly more in control of the sound and image of this album than ever, so it's obviously more of her creative vision than ever before. So maybe Beyoncé has sex with Jay-Z in the back of limo sometimes and decided to make a song about? Big fcuking deal. I've heard far worse. And furthermore, she's making millions off this, which I'm sure was her intention. I don't see anything disempowering about that at all. If I could sing and dance and was having sex in the back of limousines and thought I could take it to the bank with a song about it, I'd probably do it too!

sporina

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Slut-shaming is completely anti-feminist. It's like that excerpt from the Chimamanda Ngozi speech (who is a fantastic advocate for feminism) that argues against the notion that "women can't be sexual beings in the ways that boys are". It's fine for men to to be open and free about their sexuality, but as soon as a woman does it, she's a "slut". There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman being a prostitute or a stripper or a porn star or simply being promiscuous in her personal life if she's in total control of it. If Beyoncé wants to get up onstage and be sexy, she's perfectly entitled to do that. It's one of the perfect examples of why we still need feminism - this notion that women are crossing some invisible "line" if they embrace their sexuality in a way that makes some people uncomfortable. What line? Whose line? And who is anyone to say what she can or can't do? You're talking about the social equality of the sexes. That's what we're getting at right here - sex politics. The notion that it's not okay for women to behave in certain ways is something that plays into bigger, more dangerous cultural notions at large. But, sure, it's fine for Justin Timberlake or Usher or whoever to put on a front that he's 100% sexually available at all times or for rappers to brag about the amount of women they have had. They're men.

You're completely deluded if you think sex politics and double standards with regards to male and female sexuality is not part of this "social equality" you're talking about. Men tend to have a complete monopoly on sexuality - they can do whatever they want without anyone batting an eyelid, and you certainly wouldn't hear of men being treated in the same patronizing way women do. As such, the idea that women should be able to do whatever they want too without people drawing lines and calling them "sluts" is hugely important to the feminist movement and women being in control of their bodies and sexuality.

So what if Beyoncé wants to get up onstage and do a sexy routine? She's completely in control of what's happening when she does that, it's not as though she's being coerced onstage and forced into doing something she wouldn't otherwise do. She is supposedly more in control of the sound and image of this album than ever, so it's obviously more of her creative vision than ever before. So maybe Beyoncé has sex with Jay-Z in the back of limo sometimes and decided to make a song about? Big fcuking deal. I've heard far worse. And furthermore, she's making millions off this, which I'm sure was her intention. I don't see anything disempowering about that at all. If I could sing and dance and was having sex in the back of limousines and thought I could take it to the bank with a song about it, I'd probably do it too!

well you have hit the nail on the head using the word "control" - do you seriously think that prostitutes are in control and that they are in the game by choice??????

its ok for Beyonce - she is an artist - she is acting - but she is an advocacy for the reality - and the reality is that women are being sexually exploited in the sex industry - they are NOT embracing their sexuality!

Its trash like this that gives feminists a bad name..

we can be sexual without shoving it in peoples faces.. embracing her sexuality is fine - love it - but miming sex - no need for it.

Tasden

sporina wrote: »

well you have hit the nail on the head using the word "control" - do you seriously think that prostitutes are in control and that they are in the game by choice??????

its ok for Beyonce - she is an artist - she is acting - but she is an advocacy for the reality - and the reality is that women are being sexually exploited in the sex industry - they are NOT embracing their sexuality!

Its trash like this that gives feminists a bad name..

we can be sexual without shoving it in peoples faces.. embracing her sexuality is fine - love it - but miming sex - no need for it.

Em, actually some people are in the sex trade by choice. But that's a whole different topic and nothing to do with a provocative dance by some pop star.

And do you really think that we should judge her right to express her sexuality based on the existence of sex slavery/ exploitation? She is in a secure loving relationship with a man who respects her, if she wants to celebrate that then why would the sex trade and the abuse within it even be an issue? It is completely unrelated.

And she didn't mime sex, she did a bit of writhing around on it, she didn't hump it.

sporina

Tasden wrote: »

Em, actually some people are in the sex trade by choice. But that's a whole different topic and nothing to do with a provocative dance by some pop star.

And do you really think that we should judge her right to express her sexuality based on the existence of sex slavery/ exploitation? She is in a secure loving relationship with a man who respects her, if she wants to celebrate that then why would the sex trade and the abuse within it even be an issue? It is completely unrelated.

And she didn't mime sex, she did a bit of writhing around on it, she didn't hump it.

a previous poster mentioned the sex trade.. and i bet you that the majority if all are not there by choice!

Beyonce can do what she wants but she is the one in the public eye - she wants to look like an advocate for feminism yet on the other hand fuels anti feminism…

sure she can look sexy - the girating was a step too far for me..

either way - i would her lyric's are in black and white - and I would be certain that tina turner would not call her a feminist - on the contrary…

c'mere we can argue will the cows come home - its based on opinion,..

I take her as an artist - i do not worship pop stars and follow suite… I have a mind of my own.. you could say I am an equalist..

Go Beyonce..

cookiecakes

To be fair, I can't imagine how someone could go to a Beyonce concert would expect it to be anything but sexual or provocative. If you look back to early in her solo career with Naughty Girl, she was dancing provocatively and just last month she did quite a sexual performance on the Grammys. Sexiness is inherent in her performances and her music so I can't really see why you would have been surprised by it.

I also think it's interesting that you are holding her up as a poor example to women for this but choosing to ignore all the other ways in which she is a wonderful example ,not only to feminists, but to young women too. She's a strong woman making millions on her own terms. She's in a loving and supportive relationship and a working mother at that. She's also just started a campaign aimed at young girls called Ban Bossy to teach that being in charge and taking control of things isn't being bossy and not to let people throw that word at you to diminish your work or input. I think she is brills and wish I had an ounce of her confidence. Why shouldn't she rep for herself as a gorgeous young woman who is in charge of her own sexuality.

I saw Justin Timberlake last year and he was throwing out just as many gyrations and what not and I didn't hear a single complaint. If Beyonce was a 12 year old girl who looked as if she was being exploited, then sure I could understand the complaints. But criticizing a 30-something year old woman for asserting herself sexually seems like the opposite of feminist to me.

sporina

cookiecakes wrote: »

To be fair, I can't imagine how someone could go to a Beyonce concert would expect it to be anything but sexual or provocative. If you look back to early in her solo career with Naughty Girl, she was dancing provocatively and just last month she did quite a sexual performance on the Grammys. Sexiness is inherent in her performances and her music so I can't really see why you would have been surprised by it.

I also think it's interesting that you are holding her up as a poor example to women for this but choosing to ignore all the other ways in which she is a wonderful example ,not only to feminists, but to young women too. She's a strong woman making millions on her own terms. She's in a loving and supportive relationship and a working mother at that. She's also just started a campaign aimed at young girls called Ban Bossy to teach that being in charge and taking control of things isn't being bossy and not to let people throw that word at you to diminish your work or input. I think she is brills and wish I had an ounce of her confidence. Why shouldn't she rep for herself as a gorgeous young woman who is in charge of her own sexuality.

I saw Justin Timberlake last year and he was throwing out just as many gyrations and what not and I didn't hear a single complaint. If Beyonce was a 12 year old girl who looked as if she was being exploited, then sure I could understand the complaints. But criticizing a 30-something year old woman for asserting herself sexually seems like the opposite of feminist to me.

oh dear..

cookiecakes

sporina wrote: »

oh dear..

Great, reasoned, well thought out response. You've certainly managed to convince me of your argument. Well done! Let's start an online petition for Beyonce to start dressing modestly!

sporina

cookiecakes wrote: »

Great, reasoned, well thought out response. You've certainly managed to convince me of your argument. Well done! Let's start an online petition for Beyonce to start dressing modestly!

your so way off out of context that i do not have the inclination or the time to explain the discussion to you.. sorry..

anyway, beyonce rocks - happy long weekend,.:D

cookiecakes

sporina wrote: »

your so way off out of context that i do not have the inclination or the time to explaining the discussion to you.. sorry..

anyway, beyonce rocks - happy long weekend,.:D

Yes of course. My arguing why we shouldn't reduce Beyonce solely to her sexuality is way out of context! Great stuff!

Da Shins Kelly

cookiecakes wrote: »

To be fair, I can't imagine how someone could go to a Beyonce concert would expect it to be anything but sexual or provocative. If you look back to early in her solo career with Naughty Girl, she was dancing provocatively and just last month she did quite a sexual performance on the Grammys. Sexiness is inherent in her performances and her music so I can't really see why you would have been surprised by it.

I also think it's interesting that you are holding her up as a poor example to women for this but choosing to ignore all the other ways in which she is a wonderful example ,not only to feminists, but to young women too. She's a strong woman making millions on her own terms. She's in a loving and supportive relationship and a working mother at that. She's also just started a campaign aimed at young girls called Ban Bossy to teach that being in charge and taking control of things isn't being bossy and not to let people throw that word at you to diminish your work or input. I think she is brills and wish I had an ounce of her confidence. Why shouldn't she rep for herself as a gorgeous young woman who is in charge of her own sexuality.

I saw Justin Timberlake last year and he was throwing out just as many gyrations and what not and I didn't hear a single complaint. If Beyonce was a 12 year old girl who looked as if she was being exploited, then sure I could understand the complaints. But criticizing a 30-something year old woman for asserting herself sexually seems like the opposite of feminist to me.

I 100% agree. Beyoncé is a fantastic example in many respects. She is probably the biggest popstar on the face of the planet, she's her own boss, she's a mother, she's been in a steady relationship for about a decade with a man who clearly regards her as an equal, and she's able to juggle all of these incarnations at once. She's clearly not being exploited in any sense. She's probably one of the most powerful people, man or woman, in the Western World. What isn't empowering about that?

I see much of her recent music as being direct references to her relationship with her husband. I honestly cannot fathom what is wrong with a grown woman celebrating the healthy sex life she has with her long-term partner. She chooses to do that, she's in control of it and she's clearly happy doing it. She has said herself that this record is the kind of record she's always wanted to make, and it's more true to who she really is than anything she has ever made before. I don't really see what isn't empowering about that.

As for the attempt to change the subject to an argument about the sex trade, obviously there is exploitation within prostitution that isn't helped by its legal status in most countries that drives the industry underground and leaves vulnerable women at great risk, but you'll find plenty of women who do get involved in the sex trade completely on their own terms, often charging obscene amounts of money for their time.

sporina

i'm afraid she wants her cake and eat it too..

era i don't care - she is still awesome performer..

K4t

I'd say Beyonce is delighted that all the focus is on her 'performance' and that both the media and fans get caught up in a ridiculous discussion on feminism and sexuality and exploitation.

It detracts from her music which is god awful. She may or may not be an advertisement for feminism or whatever you take it to be, but she most certainly is a shrewd business woman and she's playing you all for fools.