Check point on M1 this afternoon.

RustyNut

Passed a checkpoint on the M1 north a few K's north of the airport this afternoon. I was travelling south so didn't get caught up in it but there was a 3K tail back and it seemed to be building fast. There were AGS of course, customs officers and god knows who else.

I was left wondering why would a checkpoint be set up on what is one of the countries busiest motorways.

Anyone get cought up in this? What were they checking?

KwackerJack

Just a big hi vis check-point to make drivers aware you could be stopped anytime over the xmas season.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151932101528001.1073742003.167613868000&type=1

endacl

Customs dipping for diesel?

Professey Chin

Part of their usual christmas operation to cause tailbacks everywhere.
Operation Freeflow this year....

RustyNut

KwackerJack wrote: »

Just a big hi vis check-point to make drivers aware you could be stopped anytime over the xmas season.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151932101528001.1073742003.167613868000&type=1

That explaines it.
Hard to think of a worse, more dangerous, stupid place for PR exercise.

dudara

Christmas operations warning. They were randomly pulling over 10 cars at a time and checking everything. The news segment I heard said that 300 cars had been checked. One driver was arrested for failing a roadside alcohol test. Muppet, imagine heading onto a motorway after drinking.

Apparently the Garda helicopter was monitoring the motorway & off-ramps to see if anyone was actively avoiding the checkpoint.

L-M

Is it just PR though?

Maybe it's the lads who think "Sure there ll never be a checkpoint here" and the ones they're catching.

KwackerJack

RustyNut wrote: »

That explaines it.
Hard to think of a worse, more dangerous, stupid place for PR exercise.

True but a driver pissed on the motorway will cost lives not time. It was well signed and co-ordinated.

Might make drink drives think twice know they could have 20 Guards looking at them

RustyNut

KwackerJack wrote: »

True but a driver pissed on the motorway will cost lives not time. It was well signed and co-ordinated.

Might make drink drives think twice know they could have 20 Guards looking at them

I wonder what international best practice is when it comes to stopping traffic on a motorway.

I often seen controls on European motorways but they have them set up in lay-bys or services where they can plug in their vans and connect to their network, even have visa machines in the vans so you can pay for any infringements.
A couple of cops on bikes then just cruise between junctions pullin people as they get space to deal with them.

A stop on a motorway just strikes me as causing more danger,problems than it solves and I'm a big fan of traffic enforcement.

listermint

This has to be up there with some of the more stupid ideas emanating from the Phoenix Park. Who thought that stopping traffic on one of the countries busiest motorways for Garda checkpoints was a good idea.

Absolute Morons.

moxin

And its a once off. Come January, you'll probably never see a checkpoint on the M1 again.

Imagine a checkpoint like that on the M50? People would use the off ramps for a justifiable reason to avoid a log jam rather than for checkpoint evasion so that Garda helicopter monitoring the off-ramps off the M50 would be a waste of a resource.

listermint

dudara wrote: »

Christmas operations warning. They were randomly pulling over 10 cars at a time and checking everything. The news segment I heard said that 300 cars had been checked. One driver was arrested for failing a roadside alcohol test. Muppet, imagine heading onto a motorway after drinking.

Apparently the Garda helicopter was monitoring the motorway & off-ramps to see if anyone was actively avoiding the checkpoint.

Apparently thats waffle. How would a garda chopper have the ability to tell if someone was actively avoiding the checkpoint. And if it thinks you are is it going to follow you home

L-M

listermint wrote: »

Apparently thats waffle. How would a garda chopper have the ability to tell if someone was actively avoiding the checkpoint. And if it thinks you are is it going to follow you home

Watching all the cars reversing on the motorway and turning off, lol.

Professey Chin

I remember a few years ago I hit one on a friday evening (about half 6) coming off the red cow just before or after newlands cross

dudara

Limerick man wrote: »

Watching all the cars reversing on the motorway and turning off, lol.

I'd imagine it would be a bit more sophisticated than that - probably looking for people making sudden lane changes, diving for off-ramps. But I don't know how they would distinguish that from normal M50/M1 driving

corkgsxr

How would you set it up so people dont mow down gardai at 70-80 mph

Pure stupidity imo. Could cause a huge pileup

arleitiss

corkgsxr wrote: »

How would you set it up so people dont mow down gardai at 70-80 mph

Pure stupidity imo. Could cause a huge pileup

pretty sure there are signs kilometers prior to checkpoint that say to slow down, also if you see car slowing down you would slow down as well I suppose?

GTE

I guess I am in the minority of people who don't have a problem with checkpoints on motorways. Mind you, I did not see the signage leading up to it but I have not heard of a pile up yet so will judge it negatively until there are reasons to do so.

Muahahaha

arleitiss wrote: »

pretty sure there are signs kilometers prior to checkpoint that say to slow down, also if you see car slowing down you would slow down as well I suppose?

But think what could happen if the tailback jam started before the signs begun, then you have cars doing a steady 100kph going headlong into a jam where others in front are crawling along at 20kph. It only takes one driver to lose concentration and not realise the car in front is going much slower as you just don't expect it on a 120kph rated road.

Stopping traffic on a motorway should only take place for chasing criminal suspects and other such emergencies, not for checking tax and insurance.

arleitiss

Muahahaha wrote: »

But think what could happen if the tailback jam started before the signs begun, then you have cars doing a steady 100kph going headlong into a jam where others in front are crawling along at 20kph. It only takes one driver to lose concentration and not realise the car in front is going much slower as you just don't expect it on a 120kph rated road.

Stopping traffic on a motorway should only take place for chasing criminal suspects and other such emergencies, not for checking tax and insurance.

I never look away on motorway, I always have this scary feeling someone in front will just decide to slam brakes and we're gone.

GTE

Muahahaha wrote: »

But think what could happen if the tailback jam started before the signs begun, then you have cars doing a steady 100kph going headlong into a jam where others in front are crawling along at 20kph. It only takes one driver to lose concentration and not realise the car in front is going much slower as you just don't expect it on a 120kph rated road.

Stopping traffic on a motorway should only take place for chasing criminal suspects and other such emergencies, not for checking tax and insurance.

Quite the line being tread around for defending the person who rear ends someone else due to lack of concentration.

I can't understand how it (a stoppage on a motorway) is not something that you would very much expect on a motorway from time to time.

mfceiling

bbk wrote: »

Quite the line being tread around for defending the person who rear ends someone else due to lack of concentration.

I can't understand how it is not something that you would very much expect on a motorway from time to time.

I'm driving 20 years on motorways from here, the north, england, scotland, wales, france, switzerland, italy....i've never seen a checkpoint mounted on a motorway...it's the last place i'd imagine a safe checkpoint could be implemented - traffic would soon bunch up and for a car travelling at anywhere between 100 and 140 maybe 150 kmh to hit slow/stationary traffic is in my opinion just crazy.

GTE

mfceiling wrote: »

I'm driving 20 years on motorways from here, the north, england, scotland, wales, france, switzerland, italy....i've never seen a checkpoint mounted on a motorway...it's the last place i'd imagine a safe checkpoint could be implemented - traffic would soon bunch up and for a car travelling at anywhere between 100 and 140 maybe 150 kmh to hit slow/stationary traffic is in my opinion just crazy.

By "it" I mean a stoppage on the motorway. I don't care what is causing the stoppage but I have a feeling that no one is able to differentiate the reason for the change of traffic conditions until they pass it, so I still don't see how anyone can seriously say that a change in conditions like this is something people don't expect when driving on a motorway.

I am of course not talking about with the people who had the luxury the signage to tell people what was up.

mfceiling

bbk wrote: »

By "it" I mean a stoppage on the motorway. I don't care what is causing the stoppage but I have a feeling that no one is able to differentiate the reason for the change of traffic conditions until they pass it, so I still don't see how anyone can seriously say that a change in conditions like this is something people don't expect when driving on a motorway.

I am of course not talking about with the people who had the luxury the signage to tell people what was up.

TBH 99% of people on a motorway are not expecting to come upon slow moving/stationary traffic.

R.O.R

mfceiling wrote: »

TBH 99% of people on a motorway are not expecting to come upon slow moving/stationary traffic.

Hence the accident at Blanchardstown Northbound on the M50 this evening, that was more than likely caused by braking for the accident at Finglas.


I have no issues with the Gardaí setting up high visibility check points, but putting one on the M1 is just ****ing stupid in my opinion. Dangerous and with absolutely no regard for people trying to get (legally) from one place to another.

GTE

mfceiling wrote: »

TBH 99% of people on a motorway are not expecting to come upon slow moving/stationary traffic.

If that approach to driving is indicative of the attitudes others where the driver is unable to deal with a change in traffic conditions like this, well that is horrendously dumb.

Jesus.

Why won't they just leave people alone FFS. Surely mounting checkpoints at night is enough to deter the real Xmas drinkers?

mfceiling

bbk wrote: »

If that approach to driving is indicative of the attitudes others where the driver is unable to deal with a change in traffic conditions like this, well that is horrendously dumb.

Not really - on a country road in the summer i am aware that i might meet a tractor drawing silage. On a sunday near a large town i would expect traffic for mass/gaa matches. Going to a large event i'd expect traffic jams and parking difficulties.

On a national motorway on a normal day i wouldn't expect traffic to suudenly stop for a checkpoint which is in my opinion a huge PR exercise.

GTE

mfceiling wrote: »

On a national motorway on a normal day i wouldn't expect traffic to suudenly stop for a checkpoint which is in my opinion a huge PR exercise.

You are already misquoting me. Read the posts again, with the clarifying point I made specifically for you and see if you can spot it.

westdub

Looks like this is the first one with more to come.....

High visibility operations such as this on the M1 today will increase over the coming weeks.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=12341

SpaceTime

They'd someone from the NRA talking to George Hook about it earlier on.

mfceiling

bbk wrote: »

You are already misquoting me. Read the posts again, with the clarifying point I made specifically for you and see if you can spot it.

A stoppage? But as you said yourself "I don't care what is causing the stoppage"

I have an issue with a deliberate stoppage being put in place on the fastest and safest roads we have (motorways)....all that traffic this evening yielded 1 driver who was over the limit (and by how much?).

Set up checkpoints by all means but not on one of the busiest commuter routes out of the capital city on a regular afternoon.

Why not have a squad car stopping on every exit? Why not do a blitz outside 20 pubs tonight? Set up checkpoints early on a saturday/sunday morning.

I can guarantee they will yield more success than the PR stunt which took place this afternoon.

FWIW - i was breathalyised outside guinness at 9 a.m one sunday morning - 0% reading (not a big drinker and had been off drink for 2 years at the time)...was talking to the garda and he told me they'd lifted 5 people already that morning. Today they got 1.

Alias G

Fair play to AGS IMO. If motorists were more compliant then actions such as this wouldn't be necessary.

osheen

As someone who uses this road 5-6 Times a day I had no problem with it . Any regular user of this stretch of the M1 would be well used to stoppages ! as muppets in the outside lane try to cross 2 other lanes to turn left for airside abd again at lissenhall .

sdanseo

Stopping traffic on a motorway like that is absolutely STUPID. There is no other word for it.

They need to be focusing on muppets who can't use motorways properly (lane discipline) rather than causing tailbacks like this. I've never heard of such stupidity. Speeding on motorways isn't a bloody problem. Morons who can't keep left is.

visual

The garda are doing motor tax checks and if they catch a few for expired nct a few more bob in the kitty for the state.
Revenue probably caught a few on red/green diesel and cars without VRT

Safety or convenience is far from priority.

GTE

mfceiling wrote:

I have an issue with a deliberate stoppage being put in place on the fastest and safest roads we have (motorways)....all that traffic this evening yielded 1 driver who was over the limit (and by how much?).

The ability to tell the future would be handy alright.

mfceiling wrote:

A stoppage? But as you said yourself "I don't care what is causing the stoppage"

I don't see how that works against my point? Did you think that through?

mfceiling wrote:

On a national motorway on a normal day i wouldn't expect traffic to suudenly stop for a checkpoint

Lets forget that the checkpoint had warning signs first of all as a longer traffic queues may start before the signs do.

Now, the fact of the matter is that no one will know why there is a sudden slowing of traffic until they are very close to it or passing it. They will just see the traffic jam and slow appropriately. This is something you feel 99% of drivers can not do. If that is the case, there should have been chaos on the M4 into the old slower Lucan section.

You can not differentiate the requirements of the driver to deal with slowed/stopped traffic on a motorway for any other reason it can happen with that of a checkpoint as you are trying to do so.

Debate about the merits of this checkpoint as you mention (I think to move away from the point again) in relation to how many people get caught are at least reasonable as I am sure there was a considerable cost involved for that one operation where an absolute blitzing of roads across Ireland would gain more PR about how serious the Gardai are taking certain types of enforcement and probably catch more people too.

RustyNut

bbk wrote: »

By "it" I mean a stoppage on the motorway. I don't care what is causing the stoppage but I have a feeling that no one is able to differentiate the reason for the change of traffic conditions until they pass it, so I still don't see how anyone can seriously say that a change in conditions like this is something people don't expect when driving on a motorway.

I am of course not talking about with the people who had the luxury the signage to tell people what was up.

The whole point is that this was a non essential, deliberate obstruction on a motorway for what was essentially a photo op and PR exercise.

I would love to see the risk assessment for motorway checkpoints.

CiniO

I didn't read the whole thread.
But two conclusions come into my mind after reading first few posts.

1. I've never seen in my life a checkpoint on motorway, either police pulling random cars from side of motorway. All stops on motorway I've seen in my life were done by police car following or driving in front of car they wish to pull over, to take them away from motorway.

2. Any checkpoint where everyone is stopped and causes tailbacks is not a good checkpoint. I've seen something like that only once and that was in Ireland. I've encountered hundreds if not thousands of checkpoints in my life, but general rule should be not to block traffic, so if police is not able to go through checked cars quicker then next one appears, they shouldn't be checking everyone - just randomly.
F.e. if there is 5 cars coming every minute, and at checkpoint it takes them on average 2 minutes to check one vehicle, that is going to cause tailback and doesn't make too much sense. They should only stop a random car every 2 minutes, and let everyone else go, to prevent tailbacks.

GTE

RustyNut wrote: »

The whole point is that this was a non essential, deliberate obstruction on a motorway for what was essentially a photo op and PR exercise.

I would love to see the risk assessment for motorway checkpoints.

Well that is a perfectly valid point of view. I suppose non-essential could only be judged once the findings were released. I am not surprised that there weren't a load of drink drivers, but forgive me, I don't have any figures as to what tax/insurance/vehicle issues were found.

My stance on dealing with obstructions of this type is pretty clear and I think that a bigger photo op and PR exercise (which is a perfectly valid way of getting the word out that there is going to be a clamp down for lack of a better term) would have been a more nationwide campaign across a day or two.

RustyNut

bbk wrote: »

Well that is a perfectly valid point of view. I suppose non-essential could only be judged once the findings were released. I am not surprised that there weren't a load of drink drivers, but forgive me, I don't have any figures as to what tax/insurance/vehicle issues were found.

They can catch all the tax, insurance, nct evaders and known criminals with one anpr car parked up on one of the Garda only parking things monitoring every vehicle that passes it.

ba_barabus

Having been 'on the scene' for a near fatal accident cause by a non-essential motorway stoppage I think this is the height of stupidity by AGS to create a deliberate stoppage on the motorway in an attempt to get some PR.

They're lucky the PR wasn't of a very negative kind. Countless times I've been stuck in long tailbacks on the N7 near Naas on a Friday evening and nearly every evening I pass a fender bender caused when someone wasn't watching the traffic.

For those pointing out that motor tax is an issue why not park a car with ANPR equipment on board and have a few squad cars up the road ready to pull them in. There is a fairly large layby after the airport where this could easily be setup.

If they are looking for drink drivers why not drive a squad car along the road and pull in anyone wobbling, driving in the wrong lanes or generally driving poorly and breath test them and maybe fine them for other inappropriate behaviour.

Deliberately stopping traffic on the motorway for soundbites, photos and PR is madness.

mfceiling

mfceiling wrote: »

TBH 99% of people on a motorway are not expecting to come upon slow moving/stationary traffic.

bbk wrote: »

The ability to tell the future would be handy alright.


I don't see how that works against my point? Did you think that through?



Lets forget that the checkpoint had warning signs first of all as a longer traffic queues may start before the signs do.

Now, the fact of the matter is that no one will know why there is a sudden slowing of traffic until they are very close to it or passing it. They will just see the traffic jam and slow appropriately. This is something you feel 99% of drivers can not do. If that is the case, there should have been chaos on the M4 into the old slower Lucan section.

You can not differentiate the requirements of the driver to deal with slowed/stopped traffic on a motorway for any other reason it can happen with that of a checkpoint as you are trying to do so.

Debate about the merits of this checkpoint as you mention (I think to move away from the point again) in relation to how many people get caught are at least reasonable as I am sure there was a considerable cost involved for that one operation where an absolute blitzing of roads across Ireland would gain more PR about how serious the Gardai are taking certain types of enforcement and probably catch more people too.

Slightly different, no? I reckon 99% of people are not going to expect slow moving/stationary traffic on a motorway - you seem to think that i'm implying that 99% of people can't/won't be able to slow down on a motorway....your example being the m4 at lucan, which is easy enough to slow down for - the tell tale signs are the red and white 80kmh signs....not a sudden slowdown on a 50 - 60 km stretch of road with a 120 kmh limit.

I wouldn't expect to travel up the M1 tomorrow and suddenly find that the traffic comes to a standstill - in all my years driving i've only come to a standstill on a motorway a few times (mostly weather related) and once a bad accident....i'd never expect a garda checkpoint - as other posters state - the findings of the risk assessment must have made for good reading.

Atlantic Dawn

Having stationary cars on a motorway very much reminds me of this from last year, it's careless and those involved in setting up the checkpoint should be charged should anyone end up dead as a result of their actions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JoEPHmhkUo

By all means have policing on the motorways, have ANPR on the cars, on the bridges, track and detect dodgy vehicles, fine cars for no NCT or tax but don't risk everyones lives with idiotic ideas.

GTE

mfceiling wrote: »

I reckon 99% of people are not going to expect slow moving/stationary traffic on a motorway - you seem to think that i'm implying that 99% of people can't/won't be able to slow down on a motorway

So if you do not think the latter, then there is no issue with the checkpoints for drivers, except maybe some inconvenience.

mfceiling wrote: »

your example being the m4 at lucan, which is easy enough to slow down for - the tell tale signs are the red and white 80kmh signs....not a sudden slowdown on a 50 - 60 km stretch of road with a 120 kmh limit.

I sense a smart aleck tone in response to the example I made about the M4 into the old Lucan section but maybe that is out of unfamiliarity on your part. There could be rolling roadblocks of traffic just after Leixlip, around 3km before the 80 signs you are on about. 120 crusing speed could quickly slow to crawl, which people could cope with very well indeedy!

billie1b

RustyNut wrote: »

I wonder what international best practice is when it comes to stopping traffic on a motorway.

I often seen controls on European motorways but they have them set up in lay-bys or services where they can plug in their vans and connect to their network, even have visa machines in the vans so you can pay for any infringements.
A couple of cops on bikes then just cruise between junctions pullin people as they get space to deal with them.

A stop on a motorway just strikes me as causing more danger,problems than it solves and I'm a big fan of traffic enforcement.

They were using the lay-by to perform the stops and checks

GTE

RustyNut wrote: »

They can catch all the tax, insurance, nct evaders and known criminals with one anpr car parked up on one of the Garda only parking things monitoring every vehicle that passes it.

Sure that is fair enough, but I am just wondering about the figures and if they release them with the vehicle issues actually being caught.

M three

dudara wrote: »

I'd imagine it would be a bit more sophisticated than that - probably looking for people making sudden lane changes, diving for off-ramps. But I don't know how they would distinguish that from normal M50/M1 driving

Nonsense. That fallacy was wheeled out by the guards before - they said they would use the helicopter would track cars speeding up between speed cameras.

BMJD

I was caught up in this bull$hit PR exercise this afternoon. Tailbacks started just before J4 NB (the main Swords one), it took me about 45 minutes to clear it (usually it would take 4-5 minutes). There were "roadworks ahead" signs, and the overtaking lane was closed off, meaning that all traffic was funnelled into one lane, which naturally at 14:30 caused massive tailbacks, after about 1km a large group of Gardai split traffic into three lanes where they did the usual tax checks. I was stopped, asked for my licence and breathalysed. There were at least 30 vehicles belonging to Gardai, Customs and journalist-type folk who were lined up to take photos and footage of it. A Garda Air Support Unit helicopter was hovering overhead throughout.

GTE

M three wrote: »

Nonsense. That fallacy was wheeled out by the guards before - they said they would use the helicopter would track cars speeding up between speed cameras.

They probably were lying but just on an aside, I believe in parts of Canada, speed traps administered from the air are pretty common! It is an interesting way of detection.

mfceiling

bbk wrote: »

So if you do not think the latter, then there is no issue with the checkpoints for drivers, except maybe some inconvenience.



I sense a smart aleck tone in response to the example I made about the M4 into the old Lucan section but maybe that is out of unfamiliarity on your part. There could be rolling roadblocks of traffic just after Leixlip, around 3km before the 80 signs you are on about. 120 crusing speed could quickly slow to crawl, which people could cope with very well indeedy!

Not at all - if i'm travelling on the motorway and i know i'm getting near dublin then i will naturally expect the road to become busier - hence the 80kmh zone for lucan will cause traffic to slow. The N2 after the turn for Blanch - traffic volume increases. The N7 at Naas - traffic increases, slower moving traffic.

The M1 heading northbound after donabate will get faster as you lose the last of the city traffic/swords/donabate/lusk etc. I wouldn't expect a sudden slowdown a further few kms from this - and i say this having driven this route 100's of times at different times of the day and different days of the week.

This was a foolish place for a checkpoint and has done the garda no favours at all. If they really wanted numbers up then use ANPR as another poster has alluded to.