Parlimentary Questions - Pistols & license reviews.

Dian Cecht

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Such as whom...??..

Not the lads you hang around with, obviously. I know lots of shooters into lots of different aspect of the sport. And 95%+ of them see no reason for fulbore pistols or semi auto fullbore rifles. Most of them, and me included, think ye are only making another rod for our backs in the not too distant future. And I reckon you'll be one of them on here cribbing how "we" were shafted ! Hopefully I and my many shooting buddies won't be shafted because of your actions !

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you want to call yourself one go ahead! I didnt.I asked WHERE you fought your court cases and WHEN.Pretty simple really..

Grizzly, you told me I "lost" no firearms after I told you I did

Now you're asking where did I take my court case when I've already put it on record in this thread that I didn't take one.

You claim those taking cases are doing it for others benefit as if ye're doing us a favour and now when it appears there's going to be a backlash you expect us to put ye on a pedestal and tell ye how great ye are:rolleyes:

It seems I'm not the only one who realises there's not much point in debating with you :eek:

Sparks wrote: »

That's not what I've been saying, but it seems you're not listening anyway so who cares.

MacsuibhneR

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not trying to be degenerative or cynical here Mac ,but dont you think this has all been tried before??

Grizz, I don't doubt it but we may as well try especially if the legislation is going to be reviewed. The many and various shooting organisations will no doubt put their word in but I don't think it would do any harm if individuals also do the same.

Now, don't get me wrong I whole heartedly agree that sometimes court is the only option. I have seen loads of examples of Supers and Chief Supers simply not following the law and in that instance there is nothing for it but to go to court and argue your case out. We have the legislation that we have and there is nothing more soul destroying that when you follow it an arbitrary decision is made to refuse you anyway. That is I suppose why we have the courts and appeal system that is currently in place. What I think (for what it is worth) is that when we hear about a review of the legislation we should contact our local politician and make a bit of noise on the issue.

Don't forget local elections are coming up and with the abolition of town councils many Councillors are especially open (vulnerable) at the minute.

FF have been decimated and FG labour are fearful of a backlash, so none of them know how these will go. The risk is that Shatter may try and come across as hard on crime (and therefore hard on law abiding fire-arm owners) and appease some anti-gun/anti hunting movement to win votes. The Gardaí also appear determined to ban Centre Fire Hand Guns outright and possibly Semi-Auto Centre Fire Rifles and even perhaps everything other than the most expensive rim fire pistols. Before it goes that far it is worth while pointing out to our local politicians that there is an active hunting and target shooting electorate out there. Apart from centre fire pistols and black powder we have a good enough system if AGS would simply follow it and stop the requirement for all of these appeals to the District Courts and High Court. The fact that quite a lot of DC appeals seem to be winning has probably not gone unnoticed either by the government and it is probably to address this that there is talk of new legislation. It also never does any harm to point out that the majority of crimes are carried out using unlicenced firearms and this is where the problem lies, not with law abiding Citizens who are continually forced to go to court to assert their legal rights.

Most local politicians have the number of the local TDs (of all parties) on their phones and as I say, if you can be bothered, they need people canvassing for them so now may not be a bad time to approach them. This still may not work but such are the joys of living in a democracy.

BattleCorp

Dian Cecht wrote: »

I know lots of shooters into lots of different aspect of the sport. And 95%+ of them see no reason for fulbore pistols or semi auto fullbore rifles.

I am speaking as a non fullbore pistol or semi auto fullbore rifle owner but I have to say I find this attitude appalling.

Just because they don't have one, why do they see no reason for anybody else having one? Fullbore pistols are a sport, that's their reason for having them.

I don't have a shotgun. Should I have the opinion that nobody else should have one?

There are plenty of lads in my club who have fullbore pistols. They are law abiding, tax paying citizens, doing nothing wrong, taking part in the sport of their choice and other shooters think that this is a bad idea? :eek:

I've heard it all now.

Jerrystevens

But other shooters are entitled to their opinions too BC and the very fact that they are shooters means that they have a good understanding of the firearms being fought for , just because they shoot doesn't mean they have to support someone getting something they don't agree with .
i would have to agree with that sentiment Dian ,most of the lads i know who shoot see little or no reason for anyone to own full bore pistols or semi auto centre fire rifles, but then most of those are hunters and target shooters not into that side of the sport , what annoys me is this attitude that if you own a gun and shoot you should support those who want something that is not of interest to you and some how become a traitor to the cause if you don’t .Sometimes you have to accept the inevitable i’m afraid .

Dian Cecht

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If it doesn't tally with yours does that make theirs so wrong

On another note, having just read the NARGC article in this months ISD..............are they really trying to tell us that they spent all that money for "our" benefit :rolleyes: I know where Enda Kenny gets his speeches written now!

Sparks

Meh. I've no problem with fullbore stuff, I wouldn't mind trying ISSF 300m fullbore (or ISSF 25m fullbore pistol) at some point (IWM, I swear, if you send me another ad for a Beliker.... ).

It's the grandstanding and throwing rocks at the PTB and the "everything or nothing!", molon labe!* guff that gets up my nose and makes me want to point out awkward facts and awkward histories...



* Seriously, molon labe? You'd need to be utterly ignorant of history to think that should be a motto. Unless you think your role models should be a bunch of psychotic murdering thugs who enforced homosexuality as a mandatory practice for all young boys. Frank Miller skipped over a few chapters to write 300 y'know...

BattleCorp

Jerrystevens wrote: »

But other shooters are entitled to their opinions too BC and the very fact that they are shooters means that they have a good understanding of the firearms being fought for , just because they shoot doesn't mean they have to support someone getting something they don't agree with .i would have to agree with that sentiment Dian ,most of the lads i know who shoot see little or no reason for anyone to own full bore pistols or semi auto centre fire rifles, but then most of those are hunters and target shooters not into that.

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If it doesn't tally with yours does that make theirs so wrong

I'm not calling anyone a traitor or anything like that, I'm just curious why shooters would be against other shooters having the firearm of their choice to take part in the sport of their choice?

What leads one shooter to believe that another shooter has no good reason for having a fullbore pistol?

Dian Cecht

BattleCorp wrote: »

What leads one shooter to believe that another shooter has no good reason for having a fullbore pistol?

Whether you believe me or not most of these lads reckon a .22 pistol would be "good enough". Some of these lads frown upon semi auto shotguns never mind semi auto rifles :eek:

I reckon the main reason is we don't have a history of civilians here with semi auto rifles & pistols as other countries do. Here these kinds of guns were only (legally) used by the Army.

rowa

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If it doesn't tally with yours does that make theirs so wrong

On another note, having just read the NARGC article in this months ISD..............are they really trying to tell us that they spent all that money for "our" benefit :rolleyes: I know where Enda Kenny gets his speeches written now!

With friends like you who needs enemies :rolleyes: ? If someone is safe to handle a single shot .22 target rifle or a shotgun then do they automatically become a raving murdering lunatic when they handle a centrefire pistol or semi auto rifle ? If someone is safe then they are safe, which is why the shooter and not the gun which should be licenced as in the north.

Dian Cecht

rowa wrote: »

With friends like you who needs enemies :rolleyes: ?

How childish :rolleyes: Unless I'm in your "gang" I'm against you :rolleyes: God forbid I have my own opinions based on my experiences & values :eek:

rowa wrote: »

If someone is safe to handle a single shot .22 target rifle or a shotgun then do they automatically become a raving murdering lunatic when they handle a centrefire pistol or semi auto rifle ? If someone is safe then they are safe, which is why the shooter and not the gun which should be licenced as in the north.

In my experience with firearms & those who use them for all sorts of reasons I cannot & will not agree with what you've written above about competence with various different firearms just because you can safely use a .22. As for the character changing episode you reckon may happen....................yet more smoke & mirrors

BattleCorp

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Whether you believe me or not most of these lads reckon a .22 pistol would be "good enough". Some of these lads frown upon semi auto shotguns never mind semi auto rifles :eek:

I reckon the main reason is we don't have a history of civilians here with semi auto rifles & pistols as other countries do. Here these kinds of guns were only (legally) used by the Army.

I'm not saying that I don't believe you, I'm just disappointed that some shooters don't see a reason why other safe and sensible, law abiding shooters should be allowed to have the firearms necessary to take part in their sport.

Yes, historically centrefire pistols and semi auto rifles were few and far between, but that's not a reason for them to be banned.

Personally, I can't see the sense in banning them. Yes, if licence holders were abusing them and robbing banks and commiting murders, then by all means, take them off people who use them illegally. The thing is, they aren't being used illegally. By taking them off licenced holders, then you don't stop any crime, you just punish law abiding citizens. Scumbags will still get them, no matter what the rules say.

Dian Cecht

BC, at the end of the day we're talking about a small minority within a minority sport.....................in a seriously conservative country.

Witcher

When they get removed, who becomes the minority in the sport then?

Dian Cecht

Blay wrote: »

When they get removed, who becomes the minority in the sport then?

Probably, the next 'group' that "push" to hard & too fast :rolleyes:

Witcher

Good, you better prepare to turn on them too then.

Dian Cecht

Blay wrote: »

Good, you better prepare to turn on them too then.

Next you'll be telling me your Dad is bigger than mine

yubabill1

Can somebody put up the links to various TD's emails?

I used it before, when it was taken from an anti website and posted here.

Politicians are nervy right now and it's a good time to remind them that, however diluted and notional, it says somewhere in the constitution

"power resides within the people" or words to that effect.

Jerrystevens

Blay wrote: »

Good, you better prepare to turn on them too then.

you see that's the attitude that i was talking about:( just because you own a gun doesn't mean you have to be some sort of splitter just because you choose not to support someone else who uses a different type than you do

Sparks

yubabill1 wrote: »

Politicians are nervy right now and it's a good time to remind them that, however diluted and notional, it says somewhere in the constitution "power resides within the people" or words to that effect.

Nuts to that. Remind 'em that we won't vote for them if they destroy our sport and we have a problem with the law as it stands. You start saying "power resides with the people" to them and your letter goes in the bin and your name goes on the looneytunes list.

Less melodrama and metaphysics and civics; more "I'll only vote for you if you fix this for me". Worst kind of parish pump crap, but if you live in a country with great parish pumps and ****ty national healthcare, which budget would you want your stuff attached to, the well-tended one or the abandoned one?

Witcher

Jerrystevens wrote: »

you see that's the attitude that i was talking about:( just because you own a gun doesn't mean you have to be some sort of splitter just because you choose not to support someone else who uses a different type than you do

Yeah, 'fcuk you Jack I'm alright' is the better option.

yubabill1

Sparks wrote: »

Nuts to that. Remind 'em that we won't vote for them if they destroy our sport and we have a problem with the law as it stands. You start saying "power resides with the people" to them and your letter goes in the bin and your name goes on the looneytunes list.
QUOTE]

you don't have to actually say where the power resides. suppose someone would have tried that line, though.

Jerrystevens

Blay wrote: »

Yeah, 'fcuk you Jack I'm alright' is the better option.

act your age if you can't have a pertinent discussion go and stand in the naughty corner

MacsuibhneR

yubabill1 wrote: »

Can somebody put up the links to various TD's emails?

I used it before, when it was taken from an anti website and posted here.

Politicians are nervy right now and it's a good time to remind them that, however diluted and notional, it says somewhere in the constitution

"power resides within the people" or words to that effect.

From the Oireachtas website, though I still think you are better to meet them face to face, might be able to get a few pot holes fixed if nothing else.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/Members_emails/document1.htm

Witcher

Jerrystevens wrote: »

act your age if you can't have a pertinent discussion go and stand in the naughty corner

:pac:

You might stab me in the back if I turn around.

Jerrystevens

Blay wrote: »

:pac:

You might stab me in the back if I turn around.

no back stabbing here ! it's those who sit quietly and say nothing who normally do that
i think to be honest a lot of what is wrong within the shooting community is lack of information/understanding of who needs what firearms

i for one see no reason on this earth why a perfectly healthy person needs to go deer stalking with an ar clone in advantage cammo to me that's just making a statement 'i will because i can and want to ' on the other hand if someone had a genuine disability that prevented them using a bolt action rifle then that's different

rowa

Dian Cecht wrote: »

How childish :rolleyes: Unless I'm in your "gang" I'm against you :rolleyes: God forbid I have my own opinions based on my experiences & values :eek:



In my experience with firearms & those who use them for all sorts of reasons I cannot & will not agree with what you've written above about competence with various different firearms just because you can safely use a .22. As for the character changing episode you reckon may happen....................yet more smoke & mirrors

Its nothing to do with people being in a "gang" or clique, you said you had a problem with people owning centrefire pistols as there is no valid reason in your opinion for owning one. I despise that attitude, " i don't see a reason for it so throw it to the wolves and we'll be ok" , this was a major problem in the past few years on this very subject.
It wasn't competence i was refering to when comparing a .22 target rifle to a centrefire handgun, but the fact a gun is an inanimate object that like any mechanical device does exactly what the person operating it make it do, therefore its the person that should be the focus of the licence and the firearm not so much.

rowa

Jerrystevens wrote: »

i for one see no reason on this earth why a perfectly healthy person needs to go deer stalking with an ar clone in advantage cammo to me that's just making a statement 'i will because i can and want to ' on the other hand if someone had a genuine disability that prevented them using a bolt action rifle then that's different

making a statement ? You are being funny right ? We don't live in communist russia, we can have all sorts of things we want rather than need. Why do we allow cars and motorcycles that have a maximum speed (sometimes multiples) of over the speed limit.
Its strange that in the past few weeks there are two newcomers here with less than 40 posts each making all sorts of provocative statements in posts to do with c/f pistols and semi-auto rifles. Things must be slow in the doj or garda headquarters.

Grizzly 45

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Not the lads you hang around with, obviously. I know lots of shooters into lots of different aspect of the sport

.

So if you know lots of shooters you would obviously know that this sentiment doesnt hold true with lots of them too..But its an intresting number "lots" it very precise and scientific...:rolleyes:

And 95%+ of them see no reason for fulbore pistols or semi auto fullbore rifles.

Is that a quantative sample of the lots number of your friends??
I mean I could ask "lots" of my shooting friends too and get a 95% answer that they have just as much a sporting use as your double barrel

Most of them, and me included, think ye are only making another rod for our backs in the not too distant future. And I reckon you'll be one of them on here cribbing how "we" were shafted ! Hopefully I and my many shooting buddies won't be shafted because of your actions !

And who exactly are you and your buddies exactly??
Who tdo you think you repersent??
Go away you clown and dont be making a fool of yourself here.:rolleyes:
You are just as much a nobody as I am.


You sound exactly like the rumoured Judases apprently busily whispering in Shatters ear at the moment to keep your precious olympic pistols and double barrels safe.. You are a fine example of the fuk you I'm alright Jack Irishman in the shooting world,and if you want someone to blame for our collective misery look in the mirror sometime.But yo know what? There were the same smug,conceited people like you in the UK who thought their respectable and sporting pistols would be safe after all those nasty semi autos were banned...They got shafted too without any KY gel and are off practising in Switzerland .POETIC JUSTICE and I wish it on you and yours for the new year.May you loose what you conspired to keep by selling others out.:mad::mad::mad:

Grizzly, you told me I "lost" no firearms after I told you I did

And I asked you when and where did you fight for them,that's assuming you did as you stated you had lost enough money fighting for them in one of your posts awhile back.So apart from the logical assumption of spending money on lawyers and court cases what did you do to lose money???

Now you're asking where did I take my court case when I've already put it on record in this thread that I didn't take one.

So how did you lose money then???Or was it simply like most here you bought in at stupid Celtic Tiger prices here in Ireland and discoverd they were worthless once the ban came in and are just bitter about that fact??:D

You claim those taking cases are doing it for others benefit as if ye're doing us a favour and now when it appears there's going to be a backlash you expect us to put ye on a pedestal and tell ye how great ye are:rolleyes:

?

LAST thing I'd want to be is put on a pedestal by a bunch of hyprocrites and bandwagon jumpers in this country.Anyway,you have to be dead first in Ireland for that honour.:D Even if that somehow did happen here,I'd come back and haunt the lot of ye until it was taken down.:D:D

I'm doing it for ME FEIN,like everyone else does in this country.

Taking a leaf out of the[very short] Irish success book..Me Fein and fuk you I'm all right.Seems to get you places here in Ireland,and if you cant beat em join em.
Twill be no skin off my nose if I keep or loose them here,as I already have made plans for such an event.Only people who will be whineing and trying to blame others will be the likes of you sir,when you discover that putting your trust in Irish politicans is like putting your head into a bowl of wasps and not expecting to be stung as you arent wearing any jam.

It seems I'm not the only one who realises there's not much point in debating with you :eek

No ones forcing you to,and please don't bother your self either. Jaysus!! and you said in your first post you are "with me" on this?????

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Actually, it was and it's the only thing that's worked in the past when it comes to overturning policy (remember the licence fee hike?)

That said, it works better when there's an election looming and everyone does it.

Thanks for reminding about that one.;) How many of us was it again that did 98% of the work on that one,and was it you,me and who else stuck our necks out to complain about the Prime Time hatchet job on shooting??? 3or 4 of us from the entire Boards.ie/shooting??:rolleyes:

Dian Cecht

Grizzly, I still disagree with you on most of your arguments & you've done nothing to convince me that I'm wrong