TUF 19 - Penn, Edgar + Pendred & Fields! **Spoilers**

unknown13

MrStuffins wrote: »

Dana has done a lot but I think the bigger the company gets, the less and less he knows the fighters personally and the more distant he tends to be. I think this then leads him to "shout inwards" and criticise fighters and fights whereas beforehand he was "shouting outwards" and defending them.

If Dana White doesn't like Wrestling or Grappling, then it's a mistake to work for an MMA company.

His argument about over saturation is the worst. There is too many fights and they keep putting on more and more fights and making some cards very weak.

Even look at the forum here, when Lesnar fought the threads were huge and nearly hitting 1000 posts per event and up a week in advance.

Zero-Cool

unknown13 wrote: »

His argument about over saturation is the worst. There is too many fights and they keep putting on more and more fights and making some cards very weak.
.

There are 499 fighters signed to the ufc. 98 alone in lightweight. That is just mental!!!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_UFC_fighters

El Guapo!

The sheer amount of fighters on the roster and frequency of events is gonna be a real problem for the UFC. I genuinely think greed is gonna be their downfall. They just see no end to the success at the moment and I don't think they actually know where they're headed. They're just ploughing on and not stopping to re-evaluate.
I think they need to think about what happens when they reach saturation point. Where do they go from there?

They bulldozed through the mma world, took over most of their major competitors and almost instantly began to systematically shut them down; taking some fighters under the UFC banner and ditching the rest. Now the seams of the UFC roster are bulging and it's only a matter of time before they tear. As a result, they've diluted nearly every card to a point where regular die hard fans have lost interest in a lot of events.

I'm firmly of the opinion that they should've kept the WEC and Strikeforce in operation. They could've used Strikeforce as a feeder organisation into the UFC and kept the UFC as a kind of premiership where the cream of the crop ply their trade.

It's hard to criticise the UFC when they have done so much for the sport but I think somewhere along the line, they lost the run of themselves and were blinded by dollar signs. I think they need some new blood in the back room of the UFC to come up with new ideas and adjust the current UFC model of growth; not to slow it down but to redirect some of the momentum and explore different avenues to keep the die hard fans interested while also gaining, and holding on to new fans.

adamski8

Personally i love all the events. It all being in the same organisation really helps the fan know where a fighter stands etc. Whereas before id be dying to see a card as i hadnt seen a ufc in ages its now an event a week nearly. I like it! Although i frequently a week behind which is annoying as i like to follow mma news so have to avoid spoilers.

I would have stayed up all night before but now will watch a fight or two at various times and its actually more enjoyable and im not knackered the next day.

El Guapo!

adamski8 wrote: »

I would have stayed up all night before but now will watch a fight or two at various times and its actually more enjoyable and im not knackered the next day.

That was part of the fun though. You'd have to wait a few weeks for an event and in the run up to it, there's be primetimes, video logs, interviews etc. I know they still have all of that but it's all crammed into a shorter timeframe and it's a lot to take in.
In the past, there'd be loads of time to dissect the event fight by fight, and discuss it all in this forum before the event. Threads would go on for days beforehand and it'd all help to build the excitement.
Then, on the night of the event, this forum would be buzzing and there'd be loads of people, including myself, staying up till 6am and chatting about it round by round in here. It was fantastic. Now, there's rarely that excitement anymore and in some cases an event will come and go without even having it's own thread in here. A lot of that is due to over saturation by the UFC.

raze_them_all_

It's best described simply by the fact it's rare you get excited by a card, back in the day you were dying to see Chuck and tito get it on. Now it's just meh after meh for the most part

adamski8

Meh im not so much into the hype, just give me a good fight between two quality fighters and im happy. A lot of other sports are on way more frequently. Just look at nfl, nhl and mlb in the usa which im sure the ufc look up to with their million games a year.

raze_them_all_

adamski8 wrote: »

Meh im not so much into the hype, just give me a good fight between two quality fighters and im happy. A lot of other sports are on way more frequently. Just look at nfl, nhl and mlb in the usa which im sure the ufc look up to with their million games a year.

Nfl regular season is 16 games, superbowl makes it to 20, just so we're clear

adamski8

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Nfl regular season is 16 games, superbowl makes it to 20, just so we're clear

Meant to write nba instead of nfl actually. Nfl is pretty weird but i guess college football seems bigger than it.

Davei141

I would never stay up as no event is worth wasting the next day in bed but i would wake up excited for a new event up and watch it sometimes with a few cans and make a day of it. Nowadays you chuck it on and get it over with. So many cards and so many injuries tying champions up (Whoever decided to put pettis on TUF should be shot) has really stagnated the UFC big time. Lightweight division has stagnated due to Pettis injury. Middleweight has stagnated due to Weidman injury. Welterweight is thriving though even with Hendricks injured. HW with Velasquez injured. Injured/injury prone champions aren't helping with the appeal of the sport at all. The UFC needs Diaz/GSP/Anderson etc back and the other champions fit and healthy.

Ush1

Probably the wrong thread for this discussion but I think UFC 174 has just left a bad taste in peoples mouths. Rewind back to the Silva vs Matt Brown Fight Night(a relatively weak card star power wise) and people were raving about how great it was because the fights were good.

174 was just boring is all. If Te Huna and Marquardt knock the stuffing out of each other, all will be forgotten.

RoboRat

I'm firmly of the opinion that they should've kept the WEC and Strikeforce in operation. They could've used Strikeforce as a feeder organisation into the UFC and kept the UFC as a kind of premiership where the cream of the crop ply their trade.

Agree 100% and add Pride to that list. The UFC got lulled into believing that the UFC was bigger than the sport and hence they felt they had to apply its name for it to be successful. They would be better off staging 6 events a year with stacked cards and let the lower tier fighters or emerging fighters compete on Strikeforce or WEC and lose the UFC fight night.

Dana and Co. are also operating under the ideology of making hay when the sun shines but that is a very shortsighted approach. All they need is one decent organisation with a bit of financial backing who can lure some of the top fighters and they could be in serious trouble.

MagicIRL

Davei141 wrote: »

I would never stay up as no event is worth wasting the next day in bed but i would wake up excited for a new event up and watch it sometimes with a few cans and make a day of it. Nowadays you chuck it on and get it over with. So many cards and so many injuries tying champions up (Whoever decided to put pettis on TUF should be shot) has really stagnated the UFC big time. Lightweight division has stagnated due to Pettis injury. Middleweight has stagnated due to Weidman injury. Welterweight is thriving though even with Hendricks injured. HW with Velasquez injured. Injured/injury prone champions aren't helping with the appeal of the sport at all. The UFC needs Diaz/GSP/Anderson etc back and the other champions fit and healthy.

The divisions only seem stagnated because the UFC is hosting an event every weekend at this stage. Fighters will always get injured- It's a fight! The aim is to hurt the other guy enough so he stops hitting you back.

If the UFC reduced it's shows to one a month even, you would see a stimulated division because everyone has amble time to heal up an progress.

rolexeagle1

Anyone see this yet?

Dtp1979

Was that last clip cathal getting a crisp right to the jaw ??

DeVore

And Chris Fields looking very down p!ssed off / unhappy about something

unknown13

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Was that last clip cathal getting a crisp right to the jaw ??

Yes and Chris Fields putting his hands on his heads, straight after.

MagicIRL

Remember lads, the preview for Catha's first fight showed him eating Hector's fist as well and look how that turned out!

Plus

with the amount of training he's currently doing in Iceland I reckon he's either fighting in Dublin or on the TUF final.

RoboRat

Was that last clip cathal getting a crisp right to the jaw ??

In fairness if anyone can eat a punch, its Cathal. I reckon he has a bowl of them for breakfast!

John_D80

As long as I have been watching TUF, and I have been watching it since series 3, seeing a fighter look like he is in trouble in the preview usually means that he ends up winning the fight.

And in fairness, besides his physical size, I've seen **** all from Eddie Gordon to make me think that he would be any trouble at all for a fighter of Pendreds calibre. Cathal, in my opinion has the technical ability in all areas to negate the size difference. I'm expecting a one sided decision. Óle Óle Óle.

JojoD51

Either way it's definitely going to a decision with both their styles

IrelandDylan

Tight match to call.. I guess we'll probably see Pendred on the dublin card now? Oh and their new chant is catchy.. ELLLBBOOWWSSSSS

Mr. Loverman

I obviously wanted Pendred to win, but actually he's not an exciting fighter and he's not good enough. His thing just seems to be to wear people down.
He'll be fighting in Dublin though, for sure. They may even stick Fields in there too.

MagicIRL

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I obviously wanted Pendred to win, but actually he's not an exciting fighter and he's not good enough. His thing just seems to be to wear people down.
He'll be fighting in Dublin though, for sure. They may even stick Fields in there too.

He has the ground game, that's for sure. His wrestling is superb. More training
with a top class striker could really help him out. McGregor and Seery, for
example, have serious stand up.

Roar

First time ever being slightly nervous watching TUF!

Close fight but I had pendred winning 1+3. He looked absolutely out on his feet by round three, there was nothing behind the punches or takedown attempts. Gordon wasn't any better tbh.

Will Pendred now be announced for Dublin or will he get on the Finale card?

MagicIRL

Cathal Pendred signs with the UFC; faces Mike King at UFC in Dublin
http://severemma.com/2014/06/cathal-pendred-signs-with-the-ufc-faces-mike-king-at-ufc-in-dublin/

Roar

why all the spoiler tags in a thread marked spoilers?

DrPhilG

Roar wrote: »

why all the spoiler tags in a thread marked spoilers?

And then no spoilers at all in the thread where it should have. :mad:

shrapnel222

DrPhilG wrote: »

And then no spoilers at all in the thread where it should have. :mad:

were they just waiting for him to lose on TUF to announce it?

anyway, better fight than some of the others, but considering the standard of the other fights it wasn't hard. Good first round, garbage 2nd and 3rd. these guys have so little stamina it's a bit pathetic really. As some people would say, no ****ing heart in these guys!!

Gumbi

shrapnel222 wrote: »

were they just waiting for him to lose on TUF to announce it?

anyway, better fight than some of the others, but considering the standard of the other fights it wasn't hard. Good first round, garbage 2nd and 3rd. these guys have so little stamina it's a bit pathetic really. As some people would say, no ****ing heart in these guys!!

I dislike the romanticisation of heart. It has nothing to do with stamina anyways.

shrapnel222

Gumbi wrote: »

I dislike the romanticisation of heart. It has nothing to do with stamina anyways.

it was a joke tbh, but when you see fighters who basically have 5 minutes to change their lives, not dig deep and give it their all, well it's kind of sad.

slicus ricus

Thought Pendred was a bit unlucky here not to get the decision, I thought he did just about enough. Even Dana White said he thought Pendred shaded it.

I think if he had been able to land one of those take downs in the final round, he would have won it for sure.

While it's never good to lose on a TV show watched by so many worldwide, losing in the semi-finals has probably worked out better for Cathal overall as he now gets to fight on the Dublin card against Mike King (who he has a very good chance of beating) and is now signed up to a 10 fight deal with UFC. Does anyone know if the King fight will be at Welterweight or Middleweight?

It looks like he will really have to up his game though if he wants to make a serious impact in UFC. Huge difference between what Gunnar Nelson has been doing in his fights at Welterweight in UFC and what Pendred did in his TUF fights (which I know is in a weight class above his normal one).

Davei141

Razor thin decision can't complain, at least Cathal got his contract hopefully Fields gets a crack on the card too. Regardless of how good fighting wise the Irish lads were they have been very good ambassadors, they spoke well, intelligently and gutted neither made it further.

slicus ricus

Davei141 wrote: »

Regardless of how good fighting wise the Irish lads were they have been very good ambassadors, they spoke well, intelligently and gutted neither made it further.

Agreed. Don't think anyone could disagree with that point.

xtal191

Will Pendred be fighting at his usual weight in Dublin?

RoboRat

but when you see fighters who basically have 5 minutes to change their lives, not dig deep and give it their all, well it's kind of sad.

Take it you have never fought then?

Its easy to say its only 5 minutes but those 5 minutes seem like an hour, you have to have been in that position to actually understand. Usually you have a big adrenaline rush before and at the start and then you have the adrenaline dump and no matter how much you try, it is so hard to recompose yourself. Literally every ounce of energy is exhausted and simple things like standing up are a huge task.

The best fighters are the ones who can control themselves and keep the high to a minimum but thats easier said than done.

Frankie7

Hi lads, long time reader of the thread, finally decided to join in.
Firstly, gutted for the lads especially Cathal, could have gone either way.
An observation that many have made already but the fighters looked gassed after maybe 1 and a half rounds not just in last nights fights but for most of the fights this series. Quite surprised as it seems the SBG lads pride themselves on having stamina to last 5 round fights.
Anyway, is it the format of TUF that has them gassing like this?
How much rest time would they have in between fighting to get into the house, fighting quarters then fighting semis? Or maybe it's the training methods of the coaches? Probably unlikely.
Don't remember fighters looking so dead in their feet in other series of TUF as they have been this series.

DeVore

RoboRat wrote: »

Take it you have never fought then?

Its easy to say its only 5 minutes but those 5 minutes seem like an hour, you have to have been in that position to actually understand. Usually you have a big adrenaline rush before and at the start and then you have the adrenaline dump and no matter how much you try, it is so hard to recompose yourself. Literally every ounce of energy is exhausted and simple things like standing up are a huge task.

The best fighters are the ones who can control themselves and keep the high to a minimum but thats easier said than done.

Roborat, that's true, and I have been "gassed" myself before... its an absolutely horrible feeling, barely able to lift my arms up. Grappling is by far the worst for bringing it on (admittedly I haven't done BJJ so that could be worse again!).

But these guys are professionals and its weird to see them both gas after one round when to be competitive , or challenge for a title they are going to have to go for the full three, maybe five rounds and possibly longer rounds too.

I wouldn't hold it against them and I'm not bashing them either, but it does seem strange that just about every competitor in this TUF seemed to gas pretty quickly. Kinda underlines the gulf between the TUF guys and the top 5 really.... (and sure, no one is expecting them to be as good... but it seems to be a fair sized gulf).

DeVore

My take on the fight is that Cathal took it in the last round and should have won the fight. I think he was actually winning the standup war for quite a bit of that fight and seemed to be picking his punches better and certainly had better head movement than his opponent.

He was certainly the more aggressive, I didn't see much offense from The Truck. Quite disappointed that the refs saw it differently.... but then I guess that's why you shouldn't leave it in their hands...

DeVore

DeVore wrote: »

Roborat, that's true, and I have been "gassed" myself before... its an absolutely horrible feeling, barely able to lift my arms up. Grappling is by far the worst for bringing it on (admittedly I haven't done BJJ so that could be worse again!).

But these guys are professionals and its weird to see them both gas after one round when to be competitive , or challenge for a title they are going to have to go for the full three, maybe five rounds and possibly longer rounds too.

I wouldn't hold it against them and I'm not bashing them either, but it does seem strange that just about every competitor in this TUF seemed to gas pretty quickly. Kinda underlines the gulf between the TUF guys and the top 5 really.... (and sure, no one is expecting them to be as good... but it seems to be a fair sized gulf).

I think they are all gassing quickly because of the extended cage work. All the intense push and pull may look slow but its very tiring on the arms and cardio. Theres also huge pressure and nervous energy. People saying either of those guys are lacking heart is just silly though.

darced

This post has been deleted.

adamski8

Weird people keep bringing up fighting for their careers when you have a really good chance of being signed up to the ufc even if you dont make the final. Perfect example being cathal and king. The more exciting you are or have a good record the more likely you will be signed. The making it into the house fights are more important but strangely these fights are usually much better.

kearneybobs

The fight was very close for sure. He came out and started well but much like the first fight he seemed to lack the initiative to start some serious ground and pound.
He completely gassed in the second to the point where he almost looked like he was drunk. Gordon's GnP was better than Cathal's, for however little he was on top in the second. I just feel that if he's going to focus on wrestling then mastering effective GnP is surely a must.

He seemed to get a bit of a spring in his step in the third.

Saw Bigslow was there too watching.

RoboRat

Roborat, that's true, and I have been "gassed" myself before... its an absolutely horrible feeling, barely able to lift my arms up. Grappling is by far the worst for bringing it on (admittedly I haven't done BJJ so that could be worse again!).

Done both but with BJJ its not so much gassing but more a case of some heavy bastard on top of you restricting your ability to breathe or trying to escape from a choke. You have to remember that your muscles require oxygen and when this is restricted, it has a knock on effect.

I've seen enough of it now to believe that its the pressure and maybe the odd fight arena that is causing the gassing.

Thats my thoughts too. There is huge hype and I remember going out to play football in front of about 1,000 people - my legs were like jelly after 10 mins as I had completely burned myself out with nervous energy.

I have seen Cathal fight a few times and he has never looked tired. I think the fact that its BJ and Frankie also adds a bit to the mix, these guys are superstars of the sport and the lads are probably pushing themselves to the limits to impress.

I also think they are overtraining, they are probably doing a lot back in the house that isn't being caught on camera and the fact that BJ tried to address this makes me think its a bigger problem than it was made out to be. All it takes is one lad to start and the rest will follow because they don't want to lose the edge.

The making it into the house fights are more important but strangely these fights are usually much better.

You don't have a camera trained on you 24/7 before you go into the house though so at least you can try and calm down and forget about it. Thats much harder when there is a camera crew around all the time.

Dtp1979

What about the weigh ins? Didn't see much of them this year. Maybe guys were struggling to make weight??

adamski8

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What about the weigh ins? Didn't see much of them this year. Maybe guys were struggling to make weight??

Hardly when most are fighting a weight class above their usual one

Zero-Cool

Man that was a close fight. I had Cathal winning 1 and 3 but like the man said himself this has worked out for the best getting a 10 fight contact and fighting on the dublin card.

Fair play to Chris and Cathal, they were great Irish reps and did Ireland proud with their behaviour and influence they had on the season.

Gumbi

sheehy83 wrote: »

Man that was a close fight. I had Cathal winning 1 and 3 but like the man said himself this has worked out for the best getting a 10 fight contact and fighting on the dublin card.

Fair play to Chris and Cathal, they were great Irish reps and did Ireland proud with their behaviour and influence they had on the season.

10 fight contract is very large. I imagine it means he's locked into a lower pay bracket which he might regret in a few years (10 fights will take ~3 years to fulfill).

Stev_o

RoboRat wrote: »

Take it you have never fought then?

Its easy to say its only 5 minutes but those 5 minutes seem like an hour, you have to have been in that position to actually understand. Usually you have a big adrenaline rush before and at the start and then you have the adrenaline dump and no matter how much you try, it is so hard to recompose yourself. Literally every ounce of energy is exhausted and simple things like standing up are a huge task.

The best fighters are the ones who can control themselves and keep the high to a minimum but thats easier said than done.

This. IV only gotten into MMA over the past 2 months and when I fist started watching it I was like holy crap these guys burn out so fast how is that possibly id be full of energy. Then I did my first roll at ShootFighters and soon learned that any sort of grappling takes everything away from you. Now imagine doing BJJ after getting a few punches and knees and its obvious why people start to fade quickly.

Stev_o

DeVore wrote: »

Roborat, that's true, and I have been "gassed" myself before... its an absolutely horrible feeling, barely able to lift my arms up. Grappling is by far the worst for bringing it on (admittedly I haven't done BJJ so that could be worse again!).

But these guys are professionals and its weird to see them both gas after one round when to be competitive , or challenge for a title they are going to have to go for the full three, maybe five rounds and possibly longer rounds too.

I wouldn't hold it against them and I'm not bashing them either, but it does seem strange that just about every competitor in this TUF seemed to gas pretty quickly. Kinda underlines the gulf between the TUF guys and the top 5 really.... (and sure, no one is expecting them to be as good... but it seems to be a fair sized gulf).

Also don't forget that they have to do far more weight cuts with a busier scheduler then a lot of other fighters. That takes a toll on your body